TheRPGSite

What system better suits Frank Herberts Dune in your opinion, and why?

Thanks!

I don't know about system, but if you want to make Dune into an RPG setting you would have to make some significant changes to the way the world works if you are playing in the time frame of the first three books or earlier.  As written shields + lasgun = nuke.  This isn't really a deterrent to lasgun use, and players are going to try to exploit this through suicidal hirelings or very long range shots.  In fact this is exploited by some of the characters in the books, and later personal shields are banned.  Still, it's a fairly large setting hole present in the set-up for the series.

It would have to have some sort of rule to enforce the fact that the Bene Gesserit always win in the end.

Burning Sands, the Burning Wheel hack.

Quote from: 837204563;388844I don't know about system, but if you want to make Dune into an RPG setting you would have to make some significant changes to the way the world works if you are playing in the time frame of the first three books or earlier.  As written shields + lasgun = nuke.  This isn't really a deterrent to lasgun use, and players are going to try to exploit this through suicidal hirelings or very long range shots.  In fact this is exploited by some of the characters in the books, and later personal shields are banned.  Still, it's a fairly large setting hole present in the set-up for the series.

I thought the Lasgun + Shields = Nuke for both lasgun wielder and the shield user.  Of course as you point out, "suicidal hirelings".  

I'd just throw in a CHOAM diktat that shield nuking was grounds to have an entire house subject to genocide by legions of saudaukar, and have any house Lords employing the characters make sure they know that.  Or impress it on them at the beginning of the game.

My main concern is that it doesn't work as a setting element if you think about it too much.  The idea that the explosive interaction would deter lasgun use rather than spur the development of lasguns with greater range/automated firing is silly.

Quote from: 837204563;388864My main concern is that it doesn't work as a setting element if you think about it too much.  The idea that the explosive interaction would deter lasgun use rather than spur the development of lasguns with greater range/automated firing is silly.

Yeah, I mean, ultimately it's a fantasy novel (a generally well written one) but stuff like "Oh my god - you mean you used artillery to defeat the Atredies?!" was a little, um...

Hmm...what about a Birthright hack?

I would want my Dune RPG to be both massive in scope and personal in focus.   In theory, Burning Empires is the natural fit, but for me, there is just way too much system.  But the world-burner is a must for a game like Dune.

Whatever you may think about Luke Crane, if you are scifi gamer, you owe yourself a look at Burning Empires - maybe not as a game, but as a toolkit to yank a plethora of interesting ideas.

BTW, if you enjoy Dune, you might want to check out the Metabarons comic book series and the D6 Metabarons RPG.  It's got a similiar flavor.

Quote from: Spinachcat;388870But the world-burner is a must for a game like Dune.

Burning Sands has a world-burner and vehicle rules built in.  ;)

I honestly don't know, having never read it, but was the Dune RPG any good for this?

RPGPundit

I recently played in  Dune campaign using Spirit of the Century. It's a good match because SotC is a very character orientated system. Dune is the kind of game in which don't really need huge lists of weapons, spells and critters. You just really need mechanics that make each character stand out for who they are.

On paper the it is also a good match because the Social Conflict mechanics of SotC should help capture the intrigue elements fo Dune. I say "on paper" because in practice I found the Social Conflict rules a bit clunky. I am not opposed to Social Conflict rules on principle, I just did feel they worked that well. But it is entirely possible we did it wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

Quote from: 837204563;388864My main concern is that it doesn't work as a setting element if you think about it too much.  The idea that the explosive interaction would deter lasgun use rather than spur the development of lasguns with greater range/automated firing is silly.

There can't be automated firing as nobody in that world would give a computer those capabilities. And I seriously doubt that you can buff the range of a direct fire weapon so much that you are safe from a nuclear explosion and still use it to effectively combat people using personal shields.

@System: I use Burning Sands.

I always assumed that lasgun was a laser weapon.  Didn't you see that recent Big Bang Theory where they bounced a (relatively) low powered one off the moon?  Weaponized the range would only be longer.

Quote from: 837204563;388896I always assumed that lasgun was a laser weapon.  Didn't you see that recent Big Bang Theory where they bounced a (relatively) low powered one off the moon?  Weaponized the range would only be longer.

Are you just arguing recent scientific advances about a weapon system you are not fully sure of if it is the one we talk about in the context of a book that is several decades old?

Because that would seem rather silly.

In a science fiction setting I expect things not to fall apart if I apply my brain, that's one of the things that should distinguish science fiction from fantasy.

And for you applying your brain is making one huge assumption and going from there. Gotcha.

If you apply your brain you will quickly realize that technology isn't lost, only forbidden, at best.  So then, why can't lasers be used to kill or incapacitate troops at range in the Dune universe?  Energy isn't a problem.  And we know that light can go through the shields.  The only explanation is that laser = lasgun, as suggested by the name in a fairly transparent manner.

Otherwise one must ask, why did F.H. add lasguns into his setting?  Why not just say that shields stop fast projectiles and leave it at that, without this silly "lasguns make shields go boom" rule?  It's because he wanted to have something to say to his reader who were going to ask "why don't these people use energy weapons to beat the shields?"

Also the Dune wiki agrees with me: http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Lasgun so there

It's got absolutely nothing to do with personal shields and everything to do with building shields.  Using lasguns against shields could cause the defenses of House buildings to go boom.

Yes, the Harkonnens could have just gotten some suicidal idiots to lase the Atreides shields and blow the whole damn city to smithereens.  After which, the Guild would have charged House Harkonnen with a 250% percent heighliner tax or something and as a result, the Emperor would have awarded Dune to some other House.

Plus, despite it being an economic battle, it was also kanly, a ritualized form of vendetta which has to have style to be recognized among the nobles and thus increase your status.  Any mad dog can send in a suicidal lasgunner, but would find himself ostracized in Landstraat society as a result.

Finally, that was the Atreides stronghold, destroying all that spice and water with a lasgun explosion would be foolish.

Quote from: Spinachcat;388870BTW, if you enjoy Dune, you might want to check out the Metabarons comic book series and the D6 Metabarons RPG.  It's got a similiar flavor.

In fact, the Metabarons comic series was spinned off from Alessandro Jodorowsky's rejected script for a Dune movie.

Can't speak of the RPG (though I loved D6 SW and used D6 Space a couple of times), but it's another setting that would work great with...

Quote from: Soylent Green;388889I recently played in  Dune campaign using Spirit of the Century. It's a good match because SotC is a very character orientated system.

Starblazer Adventures. It's got the same FATE 3.0 rules for social combat, galaxy-spanning organizations, mass battles, the works, in addition to more usual space opera fare. It's a great toolkit, if overwhelming at times.

Diaspora is another FATE 3.0 variant SF game, with a more focused, "hard SF" approach as opposed to SBA's balls-out over-the-top space opera take.

Either way, Aspects like "Bene Gesserit Training" or "Fremen upbringing" or "The Spice must flow!" or "Spice agony-mutated Abomination" just spring to mind. And it's fairly easy to cook up related Stunts.

If you're going to take down a house shield with a lasgun, you don't need a computer, you need a spring controlled clockwork device you wind up, put a cam in the trigger and then leave, with the mechanism having a good couple of hours before it hits the right point.

If that constitutes a Thinking Machine then the Butlerian Jihad definitely busted a piston.

I can't say much here about dune as I've never read it, but on the whole "lasgun+energy shield=NUKE!" issue I can see some real issues.

Assuming "lasguns" (So that's where 40k stole the term from!) are hellishly powerful and awesome weapons that mkill anything but energy shielded targets, it would be foolish for vital installations not to be defended by them.

Likewise attackers would have to use energy shields or have their attacks turn into expensive suicide charges.

Given these realities most wars would become MAD affairs as both sides were destroyed, which might benefit a alrge house willing to lose some forces to destroy a smaller house as it could afford the losses better.

 Some form of warfare would have to evolve in accordance with these facts, maybe one that put strict limits on both lasguns and energy shields, or one that punished unwarranted aggression economically and culturally.

One option might be a travelleresque idea of mandating that wars be fought by imperial rules, and that impartial, unbiased imperial observers must be allowed to oversee the war to ensure compliance with the rules. Failure to do so brings in the imperial military.

I'm not into dune, saw the lynch movie, saw the SF miniseries, that was enough.

I somehow feel that I'm going to get dogpiled for suggesting this, but I recommend Warhammer 40k Roleplay.  After all, the 40k universe takes a great deal of its inspiration from Dune.

Dark Heresy works well if the PCs are low level functionaries for a Landsraad House/CHOAM/Bene Gesserit/Bene Tleilax/Ixians.

Rogue Trader's career system heavily reminded me of the status of the characters in the first novel enjoyed within the Atreides House hold- Duncan Idaho, Wellington Yueh, and Gurney Halleck weren't noble themselves, but were important movers and shakers in the events on Dune.  In other words, PC types.

I like WH40KRP's mechanics.  Some folks don't.

Quote from: Aporon;389168I somehow feel that I'm going to get dogpiled for suggesting this, but I recommend Warhammer 40k Roleplay.  After all, the 40k universe takes a great deal of its inspiration from Dune.

Dark Heresy works well if the PCs are low level functionaries for a Landsraad House/CHOAM/Bene Gesserit/Bene Tleilax/Ixians.

Rogue Trader's career system heavily reminded me of the status of the characters in the first novel enjoyed within the Atreides House hold- Duncan Idaho, Wellington Yueh, and Gurney Halleck weren't noble themselves, but were important movers and shakers in the events on Dune.  In other words, PC types.

I like WH40KRP's mechanics.  Some folks don't.

I'm not going to dogpile you, and add that 'fading suns' would work as well as 40k as it too owes a lot to Dune.

I always felt that Dune deserved a better RPG than its had in the past. I believe also that its the perfect world/setting for a troupe-style game in which metaIplot and meta-gaming come to the forefront.

Your troupe of characters might not know each other, they may even be from different, conflicting Houses. But the GM would say present the scene to be played out, and each player would choose the most appropriate character and then justify their existence in the scene.

Keeping the system simple, and giving each type of character powers that could be utlised each scene, depending on their level. So a 3rd grade Bene Gesserit witch could use 1 major power, 2 minor powers and 3 incidental powers.

I thought about a simple 3 stat system, not unlike BESM.

Treachery, Faith, Knowledge etc...

Thoughts?