I see folks posting pure negative snark like "Worst RPG Rule?" (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3638) and I always feel inclined to balance the coverage. So what rules do you really, really like?
Tonight? I'm inclined to think highly of Burning Wheel's "Let it Roll" rule ... it's much like the law against double jeopardy, that you can't be forced to roll on the same thing over and over again. If you succeeded at the roll then you succeeded at that roll, and you can just keep on truckin' until something happens to make the task harder.
Make a spectacular role to sneak into a barbarian camp? Then you've snuck in. You don't have to check every time you cross an open space. You bamboozled 'em! Skulk to your heart's content. Until, of course, you try to steal the gem from the chieftain's head-piece ... that pops up past the difficulty of what you'd succeeded at before, so then you gotta roll.
It's a nice, simple rule that's easily portable into many different systems. It lets people get their money's worth from risky rolls, but at the same time it lets them know when they're about to take the big chance. You can choose to walk away without looting the chieftain's head-piece, and be pretty damn sure that you'll get clear ... that lends weight to your gamble, if you take it.
And that's what I like about that rule. What rules do you like?
One of the more interesting rules I've come across, is the Honor & Practicality rule for In Harms Way. It just fits the genre so well, very easily intergrated during play and has the effect of actually making the pcs consider their actions before hand - which normally translates into intense in game discussions. It's a :cool: rule.
Regards,
David R
Maybe not "the best", and probably not unique to Jovian Chronicles or horribly original, but cinematic Jovian Chronicles (and SilCore) had the "WOO factor" (Weapon Out of Ordnance I believe it stood for). Basically, you only ran out of ammo if you fumbled your attack roll.
Quote from: WilMaybe not "the best", and probably not unique to Jovian Chronicles or horribly original, but cinematic Jovian Chronicles (and SilCore) had the "WOO factor" (Weapon Out of Ordnance I believe it stood for). Basically, you only ran out of ammo if you fumbled your attack roll.
I think the one thing, more than anything, that sticks in my head to this day about JC 1st Ed., is the essay about player equipment.
It's a little piece in a sidebar, written in a fiction style, about a guy (intended I think, to be a parody of your average PC), who shows up to a gala dressed in full combat gear, inteded to highlight the ridiculousness of PCs who insist on marching about everywhere they go loaded for war.
Not a rule, but a great little piece nonetheless.
Quote from: J ArcaneI think the one thing, more than anything, that sticks in my head to this day about JC 1st Ed., is the essay about player equipment.
It's a little piece in a sidebar, written in a fiction style, about a guy (intended I think, to be a parody of your average PC), who shows up to a gala dressed in full combat gear, inteded to highlight the ridiculousness of PCs who insist on marching about everywhere they go loaded for war.
Not a rule, but a great little piece nonetheless.
Them crazy Canadians have a good sense of humor.
Actually, now that I think about it the other "best rule" that Silhouette has - which I had never seen before but once again I'm sure it pre-dated Silhouette - is Damage Multipliers for weapons. The better the attack roll, the more damage you do. And just straight impairment to actions for wounds.
Receiving experience from blowing your ill-gotten loot on ale&whores, or other sorts of debauchery. Featured in Dave Arneson's First Fantasy Campaign and later other games (the Conan RPG has something similar, I think), it is a genius approximation of sword&sorcery literature. And much more fun than the gygaxian "training" stuff.
Bonus and penalty dice, and chargen, from Over the Edge,
The resolution flow chart, and statements, from Theatrix,
Sacrificing POW for Rune magic, from Runequest, (not too crazy about free INT though),
Snowballing successes, from Sorcerer (though I have some issues with other aspects of the game),
If you roll "find traps" and succeed, you find a trap (and so on) from Donjon,
Click and Lock chargen, from Capes (I think it would be really useful for pick up or high attrition games, though Capes as a whole isn't for me at all),
Chargen from Barbarians of Lemuria,
Evard's Black Tentacles, from AD&D, (best spell, evar),
Trump dice, from TIN*,
Combining sorcerous effects, from darcsyde's edition of Corum,
If I could mash it all up, I'd have the perfect game :D . With three chargen methods... well two, because I can combine OTE and BoL.
I've always had a soft spot for the "Ker-chink!" rule for shotguns in Feng Shui. Spend an action point ("Shot") and mime working the slide on your shotgun and you get +1 to hit
Not quite a rule, more of a piece of GM advice and also from Feng Shui: "You're at the [first location of the adventure]. Why?" Let the players figure out how to tie their characters into the plot
Quote from: MelanReceiving experience from blowing your ill-gotten loot on ale&whores, or other sorts of debauchery. Featured in Dave Arneson's First Fantasy Campaign and later other games (the Conan RPG has something similar, I think), it is a genius approximation of sword&sorcery literature. And much more fun than the gygaxian "training" stuff.
That's a good one. Have you seen Barbaran, by the way? That has an interesting experience system.
Quote from: Hastur T. FannonNot quite a rule, more of a piece of GM advice and also from Feng Shui: "You're at the [first location of the adventure]. Why?" Let the players figure out how to tie their characters into the plot
That's pretty neat as well.
Best Rule?
Traveller Character Generation.
In Mongoose Conan you get from zero to one hit point by drinking a flagon of wine.
Quote from: TonyLBTonight? I'm inclined to think highly of Burning Wheel's "Let it Roll" rule ... it's much like the law against double jeopardy, that you can't be forced to roll on the same thing over and over again. If you succeeded at the roll then you succeeded at that roll, and you can just keep on truckin' until something happens to make the task harder.
It's also neat from a GMing point of view - if you fail at a roll, you cannot retry until something happens to make the task easier. Solves the constant-rerolling problem some systems have.
Also, it makes it easier to decide at what stage a PC fails - say they make roll 5 successes on a sneaking roll when they are getting into the camp. That means they get past the Obstacle-3 perimeter, and just about manage to get around the Obstacle-5 pen of hunting dogs... but when they try to get into the chief's Obstacle-7 tent, the jig's up!
Best rule (at least the most fun): criticals in d20!! It's sooo ridiculous that about 1 in 20 of all hits are criticals, and so much fun!!
Another good one is the overchanneling system in Wheel Of Time RPG. And "Gremlins" from Shadowrun rule.
Quote from: SettembriniBest Rule?
Traveller Character Generation.
Took the words right outta my mouth. Basic or advanced, they're both really cool.
While I seem to be in the minority from what I've read, I really like the First Blood rule from Traveller, as well. Not only does it neatly square with what I've read about firefights, it makes players really cautious before getting into a fight.
Quote from: Ordo DraconisBest rule (at least the most fun): criticals in d20!! It's sooo ridiculous that about 1 in 20 of all hits are criticals, and so much fun!!
Your math is off.
RPGPundit
Also, "let it roll" is a fucking stupid idea. The GM should be entitled to make you roll as many fucking times as he pleases.
If you want good rules: character generation in Traveller is one I definitely agree with. Absolutely brilliant.
The magic system for WFRP, as well as the intoxication tables and the rules for curealls and other snakeoil medicines.
The rules for Mythos books in CoC. The Bureaucracy Trap from Dynasties & Demagogues, the magic system in Midnight.
All of Amber.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditAlso, "let it roll" is a fucking stupid idea. The GM should be entitled to make you roll as many fucking times as he pleases.
I dunno, makes sense to me and I am the GM. Hell, all it does is codify something that I've done for years anyway - all the rule says is that you don't need to reroll unless the conditions that you rolled under originally change. If you succeed the roll to get into the camp, until something changes you don't need to roll again. If you fail picking a lock, you don't roll again until the situation changes.
Quote from: RPGPunditYour math is off.
RPGPundit
How is it off? I take it you mean the confirmation roll? In that case, I agree. Still, criticals are too easy to come by in d20.
Quote from: Ordo DraconisHow is it off? I take it you mean the confirmation roll? In that case, I agree. Still, criticals are too easy to come by in d20.
Compared with what? Most other crit systems make it a bit easier...
Quote from: RPGPunditAlso, "let it roll" is a fucking stupid idea. The GM should be entitled to make you roll as many fucking times as he pleases.
LOL, still peddling the same dumbass schtick I see? :hissyfit: :pundit:
You know, this "roll a d20 to attack" in D&D is a fucking stupid idea. The GM should be entitled to make you roll whatever dice/doobies/pastry dough/grandmothers to attack that pleases him. :p Oh, and all these other rules mentioned in this thread are stupid too because the GM should be able to just ignore them. And make the players give them foot massages and rimjobs too!
Do I want to know what a rimjob is?
Quote from: WilI dunno, makes sense to me and I am the GM. Hell, all it does is codify something that I've done for years anyway - all the rule says is that you don't need to reroll unless the conditions that you rolled under originally change. If you succeed the roll to get into the camp, until something changes you don't need to roll again. If you fail picking a lock, you don't roll again until the situation changes.
Wouldn't "having to pick another lock" be a change in situation? I mean if not, shit, why not just have every player roll each possible skill/attribute just ONCE and then dispose with dice forever?
But if that is a new situation, why the fuck wouldn't be "having to sneak past another guard" be a change in situation? And if so, basically the "let it roll" rule is fucking meaningless, because it doesn't actually change anything from how (normal, well-adjusted) people normally play.
RPGPundit
Quote from: SettembriniDo I want to know what a rimjob is?
I don't know. How sensitive is your prostate, and how much of a hygiene Nazi are you?
Quote from: SettembriniDo I want to know what a rimjob is?
You may be more familiar with the phrase "tossing a salad".
All right, it means you stick your tongue in someone's asshole.
Best Rule: critical hit charts. I specifically prefer the ones in Rolemaster, but haven't used ones from other systems a lot. The ones in Hackmaster are GM only so I've never seen them.
Quote from: TechnomancerAll right, it means you stick your tongue in someone's asshole.
Well, there goes my attempt to be discrete. :)
Quote from: blakkieYou know, this "roll a d20 to attack" in D&D is a fucking stupid idea. The GM should be entitled to make you roll whatever dice/doobies/pastry dough/grandmothers to attack that pleases him.
Pretty stupid reductio ad absurdium there; but in any case, a GM, having supposedly been the one who chooses the system, would be pretty irresponsible to then change the fundamental rules of that system. Note I said "irresponsible", not "forbidden to".
But what kind of dice the GM uses doesn't actually affect his freedom of authority in the game. It makes no difference if he's rolling a D20, throwing bones in the air or licking your grandmother's pussy; he's still in charge.
Rules that stop him from being able to affect the world are a whole other matter, however.
RPGPundit
The free form magic in the Iridium system.
Hey Pundy and Blakki, can you take your "should the GM be God?" argument somewhere else? This here thread is about best RPG rules, not grandma pussy licking.
Quote from: James McMurrayHey Pundy and Blakki, can you take your "should the GM be God?" argument somewhere else? This here thread is about best RPG rules, not grandma pussy licking.
My apologies for bringing attention to his illogical, ill-informed threadcrapping tripe.
No need to apologize. I'm actually interestedin the discussion, just not in this thread. :)
Quote from: RPGPunditWouldn't "having to pick another lock" be a change in situation? I mean if not, shit, why not just have every player roll each possible skill/attribute just ONCE and then dispose with dice forever?
But if that is a new situation, why the fuck wouldn't be "having to sneak past another guard" be a change in situation? And if so, basically the "let it roll" rule is fucking meaningless, because it doesn't actually change anything from how (normal, well-adjusted) people normally play.
RPGPundit
You're right - all it does is put down on paper in a no-nonsense way the way that most people play, which is to make rolls when it makes sense to, no more and no less. Some people are stupid enough to need that sort of thing spelled out for them, as evidenced by threads I've seen where people say they've played X game for years and never once thought they could change Y, when Y is common sense for everyone (these are usually the same people that claim they have been psychologically damaged by rules systems).
Otherwise, why not have the PC make a DEX check for every footstep they make? That's a change in situation - marbles can roll from nowhere and get under their feet! Why not have the PC make the roll to grab the horse's reins, then a roll to put one foot in the stirrup, then another roll to hoist themselves up, then another roll to plant their ass in the saddle. Hell, they should all be
seperate skills!
"Let it Ride" (which I think is what the rule is actually called) I think is more about setting the baseline with the roll. Unless the new lock is more difficult than the last, or the new guard is much more alert than the last - why waste time rolling again? It's saying, "You snuck past the two hyper-alert, hopped up on goofballs guards in the entire camp getting in...why roll to sneak past the one that's asleep?" or "You picked this super complicated lock to get into this safe, why roll to pick the flimsy hasp lock on the box that's inside?".
Quote from: James McMurrayNo need to apologize. I'm actually interestedin the discussion, just not in this thread. :)
I'd be interested in discussing the rule if I thought I'd get a meaningful thoughtful discussion out of RPGPundit. But given his past performances, and his predisposition to ham it up in some perverse clown show, that's a longshot at best.
His "it's a bad rule because the GM should be able to tell you to roll whenever he/she feels like it" is a total fucking red herring. He's dragging something else into the argument like some dipshit ideologue arguing about abortion on a car repair board. The clown has baggage, will travel.
Quote from: SettembriniDo I want to know what a rimjob is?
If you don't know already then likely not. ;)
EDIT: Oops, too late I see. :(
QuoteI'd be interested in discussing the rule if I thought I'd get a meaningful thoughtful discussion out of RPGPundit.
Oh get the fuck over yourself. You have no more interest in "meaningful discussion" than the Pundit does. You're just here to bait him. That's all you're ever here to do.
We get it. You think he's an idiot/douche/etc. So do most of the rest of us, myself included, but somehow we manage to be productive members of the site, instead of spending our every last post baiting it's owner.
Quote from: Wil"Let it Ride" (which I think is what the rule is actually called) I think is more about setting the baseline with the roll. Unless the new lock is more difficult than the last, or the new guard is much more alert than the last - why waste time rolling again? It's saying, "You snuck past the two hyper-alert, hopped up on goofballs guards in the entire camp getting in...why roll to sneak past the one that's asleep?" or "You picked this super complicated lock to get into this safe, why roll to pick the flimsy hasp lock on the box that's inside?".
Actually, based on the description in the Burning Wheel rules, suddenly walking past a more alert guard isn't grounds for a "significant change in the situation" - you are still, fundamentally, trying to sneak into the camp. It cuts
both ways - you might think you're in the clear when the first two guards don't see you, but the guy with the spirit familiar who warns him of danger? He's going to see you.
....moved to new thread...
Quote from: blakkieOh what the hell, I'll give the clown another shot....
There's a whole new thread (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3653) for this topic. Kindly take it there instead.
Y'know another rule I like? "Too much is too much," from
Teenagers From Outer Space. It basically says that if you blow past the difficulty for a roll by a sufficiently high margin, the GM is allowed to take your good consequences and twist them into something terrible. The girl you asked out on a date? She likes you. Likes you
way too much! She'll never let you out of her sight! She'll attack any other girl you look at! You've
got to get rid of her!
Man, that's fodder for good, solid comedy, I tell ya that.
Quote from: WarthurActually, based on the description in the Burning Wheel rules, suddenly walking past a more alert guard isn't grounds for a "significant change in the situation" - you are still, fundamentally, trying to sneak into the camp. It cuts both ways - you might think you're in the clear when the first two guards don't see you, but the guy with the spirit familiar who warns him of danger? He's going to see you.
That jives with my understanding...which is that the main point of sneaking into the camp is to get to the chieftain. The conflict isn't between you and the guards, it's between you and the chieftain - so you compress/streamline the portions that happen in the interim. I, as a player,
despise GMs that make me repeatedly roll for the same shit when I just want to get on with the ass-whupping. As a GM, I don't want to force the players to reroll for the same shit over and over again because I know they get frustrated. Like I pointed out - it's nothing that reasonable people probably don't already do. It's just codified into BW's rules.
Quote from: J ArcaneOh get the fuck over yourself. You have no more interest in "meaningful discussion" than the Pundit does. You're just here to bait him.
Typically my motivation when I address his posts is to try stanch the blatant disinformation. Although admittedly I'm inclined to and give into the urge to tell to just STFU, which is why I apologized.
QuoteThat's all you're ever here to do.
Really? Care to review my posts for the last 24 hours?
Quote from: TonyLBY'know another rule I like? "Too much is too much," from Teenagers From Outer Space. It basically says that if you blow past the difficulty for a roll by a sufficiently high margin, the GM is allowed to take your good consequences and twist them into something terrible. The girl you asked out on a date? She likes you. Likes you way too much! She'll never let you out of her sight! She'll attack any other girl you look at! You've got to get rid of her!
Man, that's fodder for good, solid comedy, I tell ya that.
Actually, I think it's a great rule even for serious games. I had an idea for a resolution mechanic that was mildly inspired by that - you always want the roll to be as close to the target number as possible, because if you roll too high you can
oversucceed (for lack of a better word). I just have to figure out to handle attribute bonuses or whatnot; I was thinking some weird stuff about absolute values (the attribute always pushes the roll towards the target number, whether the initial die roll would be a failure or a success).
Quote from: WilLike I pointed out - it's nothing that reasonable people probably don't already do.
See how easy that is to do?
Quote from: droogSee how easy that is to do?
Conversely, why is it bad to make it part of the rules if reasonable people already do it? I mean, that's generally how rules get made in the first place - reasonable people already behave that way, so there is a consensus that this is something that everyone should do. They become rules because of the
unreasonable people who don't behave that way.
Hey droog, did you post a rule that you liked, and I just missed it? Or are you, too, accidentally jumping in to derail the thread?
C'mon, folks, I'd like to think that there is enough interest in enjoying games that it can at least maintain a voice in the face of all the concerted effort here toward hating games. 2007 is a whole new year ... do my faith in human nature a good turn, would'ja?
I can't think of a best. I can think of lots of rules I like a lot, but I can't seem to stratify them at that end.
Is 'let it ride' a rule or a principle?
Well, thats the thing. When rules work they aren't really that noticeable, so it's hard to go OMG, I LOVE HIT POINTS. Because comeon. Theyre so mundane. And yet, they work great, theyre totally reliable, they enable characters to get into exciting situations and extract themselves when necesary..
PS. OMG I LOVE HIT POINTS!!!
PPS. What Droog just said, actually.
And I don't put much faith in "roleplaying principles" That's asshat theorist territory.
Hit points do, indeed, rock hard. They let you make every combat relevant to the possibility of horrific death, but don't require that every combat (realistically) actually involve a serious risk of horrific death.
You lose half your hit points against a Behold swarm and you don't have to be ... y'know ... worried, but you can certainly respect that they drove you a long way toward the point where, yeah, maybe you'll have to genuinely put your character's life on the line over the next roll of the dice. That's cool!
Although I don't own it and I've never played it, I think the mechanic from Japanese schoolgirl game Panty Explosion where a player at the table is designated as your rival and gets to narrate your failures is an ingeious idea.
I can't say it's my favorite mechanic or anything but I think it'd be a cool way to have some comedic play.
-Marco
Hit points are great, but they are even better with the old chestnut save or die. Sometimes your HP total just doesn't matter. You've got to make this one roll or its curtains for your PC.
Brownie Points from Ghostbusters. Need a boost on your next roll? Spend a Brownie Point and add a die. Fell off a roof and don't wanna end up in the hospital? Awp -- that'll cost ya some Brownie Points.
They're Hit Points and Awesome Sauce in one!
Quote from: TonyLBYou lose half your hit points against a Behold swarm and you don't have to be ... y'know ... worried, but you can certainly respect that they drove you a long way toward the point where, yeah, maybe you'll have to genuinely put your character's life on the line over the next roll of the dice. That's cool!
WEHAT THE HELL IS A BEHOLD SWARM? SERIOUSLY.
Best rule ever is that there are NO rules, only guidelines.
Quote from: UmaSamaBest rule ever is that there are NO rules, only guidelines.
I was going to offer "The referee shall determine the subsequent flow of events", but that felt like not-a-rule.
The first rule of RPG Club....
Quote from: Abyssal MawWEHAT THE HELL IS A BEHOLD SWARM? SERIOUSLY.
Whoops! Meant "Beholder swarm," as in ... y'know ... a ludicrous swarm of beholders. Yeah, I know, they're solitary. That's why it would be so freaky! But then the image got mangled by my inept typing. Ah well. :(
Youth Pastor: Hey kids, I know your "Rock and roll musical groups" are very "groovy" and a "trip". But are any of you "shooting up" the "mary jane"?
You probably mean well, but I'm having a hard time finding you credible. I think it all started when I read your advice to run dungeon crawls by having the players sneak cravenly from room to room, while avoiding any trouble.
I mean jesus. It's a DUNGEON. Your'e supposed to walk in there like you own the place, busting down doors and pushing over sarcophagi lids and stuff. If anyone dares step up, you set off fireballs.
Quote from: Abyssal MawYou probably mean well, but I'm having a hard time finding you credible.
Okay. Am I supposed to respond to that in some way, or did you just have to get it off your chest?
Well, for the most part, I'm just "jiving" with you, Pastor.
But here's the deal: I already suspect that many of you are here to evangelize indie crap and keep an eye on us. So when your attempts to talk about stuff seems to come out wrong- like you have 80% knowledge of the subject but it's obvious your'e not really there .. I get suspicious. I mean it's funny too.
Not in a mean way, really. More in a "hey check out the youth pastor!"
Taken altogether, it comes across as more political then insightful.
Quote from: Abyssal MawBut here's the deal: I already suspect that many of you are here to evangelize indie crap and keep an eye on us. So when your attempts to talk about stuff seems to come out wrong- like you have 80% knowledge of the subject but it's obvious your'e not really there .. I get suspicious. I mean it's funny too.
Oh ... wait. You're saying that you think I
never played D&D? That I'm trying to learn the game from the outside, without actual experience?
Man, that's ... I should tell my folks about that. They'd get a laugh out of that, they sure would.
Quote from: Abyssal MawBut here's the deal: I already suspect that many of you are here to evangelize indie crap and keep an eye on us.
Shine on crazy diamond, shine on!
What about me? Whose side am I on? :D
Quote from: TonyLBOh ... wait. You're saying that you think I never played D&D? That I'm trying to learn the game from the outside, without actual experience?
Man, that's ... I should tell my folks about that. They'd get a laugh out of that, they sure would.
Yes, Tony does get all evangelical about indie games. Other than that he's a cool guy. :D
Yes, Tony has played D&D. Quite a bit. That was an actual typo. We all make mistakes. :D
A lot of the Forge guys play - as in currently play, not used to play - D&D and other trad games. Not all of them, not a majority, but quite a few. Tony comes across here as far less trad-enjoying than he really is, probably because of a reaction to the prevailing feel of the site, and because he feels a need to defend his buddies over at the Forge when they get jumped on here, which they do, and sometimes they deserve it. I don't mean to say he isn't a Forgista, he very definitely is, but he's not there from ignorance and naivete, and he's a good guy.
I try not to let my dislike of theory/dogma color my reactions to individual people.
-clash
Since something like 90% of all RPG players probly started with D&D of some sort, I doubt that we have an active member here that hasn't played D&D. So the whole idea of Tony not having any traditional RPG experience is just idiotic.
But the deal is this:
Anybody else gets a pass. Seriously. Any random joe can say what they like and I won't care. Lacking a clue is no problem in the general populace.
But Forgies are different. They portray themselves as 'experts', even in the realms they have no real knowledge of- and are often even accepted as such. This is a problem. This is one of the factors behind the brain damage thing.
So I'm sorry, I have to challenge this shit where I see it. With Tony I swear to god, I waited three fucking times.
#1) How to Run Dungeon Crawls. Tony's advice? "Have the players sneak from room to room avoiding encounters."
I held my tongue!
#2) "You and your fireball just cost the party 50 hit points!"
Seriously who the fuck would say this? How does a fireball cost the party anything? What the hell?
#3) BEHOLD SWARM!
And I'm like FUCK! THATS IT.
Dudes, a couple of years ago, I ran into some jackass theorist peddling some nonsense about the problem of D&D is "eventually the players try to buy magic items and it unbalances the game". And I presented several points why that isn't so, that magic item buying is an important part of kitting out characters to remain current with encounter levels.
In short I was way more rational than I am today.
You know what the fucker told me? Until I had read Inspectres and Dogs in the Vineyard "I probably wouldn't understand what he was talking about."
Yeah.
SO I say fuck all that. Seeing as how the swine spectrum goes from Spineless Coward all the way through Lying Motherfucker, I see no reason why I shouldn't confront this shit where I see it, even when it seems like relatively harmless stupidity.
well start up another thread if you want to rail against forge fans.
This thread is for the discussion of good rpg rules.
better yet, take to PMs if you want to argue with Tony.
Well I don't want to argue with Tony I want to castigate him publicly. Geez.
Quote from: Abyssal MawSo I'm sorry, I have to challenge this shit where I see it. With Tony I swear to god, I waited three fucking times.
#1) How to Run Dungeon Crawls. Tony's advice? "Have the players sneak from room to room avoiding encounters."
I held my tongue!
What's wrong with that? It can be a blast to run it that way so long as everyone's up for it. I ran a dungeon crawl for a party of thieves once where they had to sneak through as much as they could or they were never going to make it. Nothing non-trad about that, just a little different play style.
Quote from: Abyssal Maw#2) "You and your fireball just cost the party 50 hit points!"
Seriously who the fuck would say this? How does a fireball cost the party anything? What the hell?
Huh? You never had a Mage screw up the blast area and range of a fireball? Happened all the time in my groups. At least once every campaign, one Mage would let fly with a fireball without thinking it out and toast half the party.
Quote from: Abyssal Maw#3) BEHOLD SWARM!
And I'm like FUCK! THATS IT.
A typo. I understood what he meant, and I'm sure you did too. I mean you typed "WEHAT" in your response and I knew you meant "WHAT." Rag on him when he gets all Forgey if you like, that's fair game, but a typo is just being human.
-clash
Abyssal, I love you. But this time, I'm with Clash. Don't get me wrong, I understand your perspective. I just think this time you let your anti-Forge dogs bark at the wrong time.
IMHO, FWIW, etc.
I would agree that sometimes it sounds like Tony is speaking D&D as a second language, but I'm not prepared to read anything further into it.
Now back on topic. Here's an awesome rule: Range Bands in Classic Traveller and Starter Traveller. Less realistic than full mapping, but a great way to do firefights in the abstract.
I really like:
Card based resolution as used on Marvel Saga, fast, simple, easily graspable with some built in choice for PC's.
Marvel Superheroes (Universal Chart/FaseRip) systems karma--controlling outcomes of play, shifting results, and of course the other rule: power stunts. Doing new things with old powers just like comic books.
Adventure's Inspiration, frankly while other games adopted the feel of MSH karma (drama points in Buffy, Action Points in D20 Modern, Conviction in True 20) --inspiration and its relative dramatic editing actually gave players more control of the game without TOO much destruction of "suspension of disbelief"
Quote from: jrientsHere's an awesome rule: Range Bands in Classic Traveller and Starter Traveller. Less realistic than full mapping, but a great way to do firefights in the abstract.
For my online CT game, I've been running pretty straight LBB1-3 with a few minor changes. I was thinking of using Snapshot or AHL for combat, but I didn't want to clutter up the game on our first time out using the system. Back when we gamed face-to-face, we loved breaking out minis and drawing encounter maps on a 1" grid, getting flank and rear attacks, taking advantage of cover and high ground, etc. The abstract combat system of CT had the potential to rob combat of all the tactical flavor we love. I was really worried that range bands would limit us in tactical situations.
I needn't have worried. Range bands have worked wonderfully, especially given the medium we're using for communication (professional webconferencing site). I'd even keep them for tabletop play because it keeps the game moving.
Another good rule from Classic Traveller: the damage system. Simple as hit points, but applying damage directly to stats has interesting and varied effects on combatants.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Brownie Points from Ghostbusters. Need a boost on your next roll? Spend a Brownie Point and add a die. Fell off a roof and don't wanna end up in the hospital? Awp -- that'll cost ya some Brownie Points.
They're Hit Points and Awesome Sauce in one!
By God you have good taste!
I'm trying to think of my own favorite, but I keep coming up with concepts (levels, hit points, classes, etc.) rather than a single rule. Maybe something from HackMaster like how one PC can steal Honor from another PC or NPC by insulting or bitch-slapping them.
Quote from: jrientsHere's an awesome rule: Range Bands in Classic Traveller and Starter Traveller. Less realistic than full mapping, but a great way to do firefights in the abstract.
Is that similar to Babylon 5's vehicle combat? Each battle has a center and then you determine who is at the center, close, middle, or far in range. Relative ranges to each other are determined with that. If so I'll agree. If not I'll nominate B5's vehicular combat system (in it's entirety except for the armor rules) as a really sweet rule set.
Quote from: Abyssal MawInspectres
Is there really a game called that? If so, at least please tell me that's the British spelling of the word.
Quote from: James McMurrayIs there really a game called that? If so, at least please tell me that's the British spelling of the word.
Actually, 'tis spelled
InSpectres (http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/10/10735.phtml)...
Oh well. I guess I have to ignore everything Abyssal Maw says now. I mean, it's not like he can expect us to believe that was a typo. ;)
The aggressiveness rule in Dangerous Journeys for critters.
That sounds suspiciously like aggro from MMORPGs.
Quote from: James McMurrayThat sounds suspiciously like aggro from MMORPGs.
The following should help with the confusion.
Quote from: Mythus Bestiary p18The agressiveness of any wild creature in the Mythus game is based on a numbe of factors, beginning with the animal itself. The environment and the creature's situation also will affect behavior. While some animals are naturally aggressive , most are not unless they are disturbed or molested in some way; or something has threatened their territory or young.
The base chance of any wild animal attacking is based on the general disposition of the animal in question, as shown below
Disposition: Chance of Attack
Gentle: 0%
Passive: 10%
Moderate: 20%
Easily Disturbed: 30%
Aggressive: 40%
Ferocious: 50%
This is modified first by the animal's form of nourishment
Herbivore: -10
Omnivore: +/-0
Carnivore: +10=
Any persona attempting to deal with an animal does so by rolling against his Animal Handling K/S Area, using the modifiers listed below. If Animal Handling is not possessed, use the additional cumulative modifiers to determine the effective chance of attack.
Animal's Nature/Situation: DR Modifier: Attack Modifier
Domesticated: -2 (Easier): -10
Knows/Accepts persona: -2: -10
Recognizes persona: -1: 0
Passive/Sated: -1: 0
Disturbed/Provoked: +1: +10
Hungry: +1: +10
Territory Violated: +2: +20
Breeding Season: +2: +20
Cornered: +3: +30
Protecting Young: +3: +30
Wounded: +4: +40
Man-Eater: +4: +40
Diseased/Rabid: +5: +50
If approached in a non-threatening manner animals that don't attack will either stand wary, or simply leave the area at the gamemaster's discretion. If disturbed, threatened, or attacked, those that don't attack with either flee immediately, or they will display or voice a warning of some sort (growl, hiss, etc.) and stand ready to defend themselves. Creatures whih are attacked by personas will gain an additional roll on each CT*.
*
Critical Turn, the three second combat round.
Animal reaction rules for Traveller.
Anguish Factor from Hol. I had no real point to it, it could be easilly removed entirely without the game play being altered in any meaningful way, but it added tone. :)
I also loved Inspiration from Adventure!. :)
Quote from: James McMurrayIs that similar to Babylon 5's vehicle combat? Each battle has a center and then you determine who is at the center, close, middle, or far in range. Relative ranges to each other are determined with that.
Yeah, that's pretty much the Trav method.
What about vehicle combat in other aspects? B5 is based on different orders, with each PC having a set number of orders they can issue per round (usually 1, increased by feats and class abilities). Orders range anywhere from "Fire at Will!" to "Run silent, run deep," "He's On your Six!" and various other combat actions with names pulled from the show. I like the control it gives while avoiding the typical tactical minutae that come with a d20 combat.
Quote from: James McMurrayOrders range anywhere from "Fire at Will!" to "Run silent, run deep," "He's On your Six!"
Seriously? Oh, that's so fucking SLICK! Now I'm gonna have to check that out. Thanks for the heads up!
Quote from: TonyLBSeriously? Oh, that's so fucking SLICK! Now I'm gonna have to check that out. Thanks for the heads up!
Yeah, that does sound cool.
It's the best vehicular combat system I've seen if you're looking for fast and furious.
Be warned that the armor rules make it so that you can't possibly destroy one Starfury (small fighter) with another. Apparently in playtest they had armor degredation rules which allowed this but they somehow didn't make it into the printing of the book. By canon a 'fury's 14 armor is higher than it's 12 damage output, so every shot just plinks off.
This is the rule that some of the playtesters used and it seems to work well:
Quote from: Mongoose's B5 ForumAlso when you attack a vessel the offensive rating +1 for each 5 points over the defence divided by 5 is also the amount of an opponents armour that they have removed allowing you to wear down larger vessels protection.
Our group decided to divide by 3 instead of 5 just to make things move faster.
The other cool part about the system is that ships don't have hit points. Instead you have X number of spaces divided up amongst crew, cargo, engines, weapons, etc. When you take damage it gets applied to one section (more if there's overflow). If the section is damaged there's a chance it may malfunction. If it's destroyed there's even worse effects. Amongst the possible orders are ones to repair damage, brace for impact, or even simulate some systems using control spaces.
If you grab the book to check it out, make sure it's 2nd edition. The first edition B5 had a grid based tactical combat with hit points for the ships. 2nd edition also had a lot more fixes in it making it a much more polished product.