Ive a player in my group who absolutely abhors level based RPGs, especially those that require a random 3D6 dice roll to obtain stats.
Im looking at sneaking in a big fantasy game for next year and looking for recommendations for the best fantasy point-based RPG out there.
Im aware of GURPS, but this has 2 potential downfalls for me;
1 its a low power gaming system, not suited for high or epic gaming
2 whilst its rife with supplements and add ons, doesnt appear to have any adventures of campaigns of note.
I tried RuneQuest with the group too but for some reason it didnt grab them.
Any thoughts...
Quote from: Lawbag;486714Ive a player in my group who absolutely abhors level based RPGs, especially those that require a random 3D6 dice roll to obtain stats.
Im looking at sneaking in a big fantasy game for next year and looking for recommendations for the best fantasy point-based RPG out there.
Im aware of GURPS, but this has 2 potential downfalls for me;
1 its a low power gaming system, not suited for high or epic gaming
2 whilst its rife with supplements and add ons, doesnt appear to have any adventures of campaigns of note.
I tried RuneQuest with the group too but for some reason it didnt grab them.
Any thoughts...
Hero could work, but it's also not rife with campaign and adventure supplements, especially Fantasy.
OTOH, there's plenty of fan-made material and the system, once learned, is simple - It's been summarized to two pages (I did the compilation, I must admit). Do a web search for "Hero In Two Pages" and, even if you don't have a Hero forum ID, it's on file-sharing sites (it's public domain).
This dude: http://www.killershrike.com/ has a ton of stuff. Most of it's 5th Edition Hero, rather than the latest, 6th Edition, but the two are very compatible. 6th Edition is an upgrade, not a re-write.
Eclipse: The Codex Persona by Distant Horizons Games breaks down all of d20 into a point-buy system, and adds some stunningly original ideas and mechanics on top of it for different magic and "powers" systems. It's free and worth a look. Still technically level based, but all a level does is give you 12 more points to spend.
Lawbag, I like my modified Pathfinder. It comes with a point by system for stats.
The two big changes I made to RAW that converted my d20 hating players was running E6 and sticking firm to the idea that NPCs don't have many levels - making their characters stronger and combat faster, and I let them automatically succeed on any non contested climb / jump / acrobatics roll so long as they have a +7 or better in the skill. That way characters that are good can BE good. They start off strong and rapidly become stronger in relation to the world. They can describe all the high powered anime crap they like....
It's fun.
I pretty much 'abhor' levels too (not that they'll keep me from playing)... with BRP and GURPS being my favorite generic-ish systems because of their swing towards low-power/dangerous/gritty gameplay.
Isn't Savage Worlds point-buy? Not my taste but it has a reputation of being more 'cinematic'.
Lawbag, you're mixing up point-buy and non-level-based and I think that's getting you some answers that may not be as useful as they could be.
It sounds like your player really just doesn't like class-based (and possibly level-based) games. This can cause problems with your spec since you write
Quotelow power gaming system, not suited for high or epic gaming
and really, most non-class-based systems, which are also usually non-level-based, tend not to work well for epic gaming. The reason: fundamentally, without levels, you tend not to get escalating hit points as characters improve. They just get better defensive skills, and it only takes one botched parry/dodge to kill a character.
So I think you probably need either a system that still uses levels and escalating hit points, but which (at least) strongly blurs the concept of "class", not to mention doing away with random chargen, or you need a system that just makes it very hard for PCs to die in the first place.
Off the top of my head, I'd suggest Talislanta 3e for the first option. A side benefit is that it's now free and there are a fair number of adventures for Tal. (Note: Tal is pretty nonstandard fantasy. Not sure if that's a selling point for you.) For the second option, you might look at d6 Fantasy, which I believe is also free now. I don't know d6 very well, but after reading a bit of the original Star Wars rules, it sounds like characters are pretty hard to kill.
Of course a cheap method of making any character hard to kill, and even giving them additional "staying power" as they advance, is to use "hero points".
If you really want to do away entirely with levels and random chargen, then Talislanta 4e might be up your alley. Also free. For a similar system and more traditional fantasy, then Atlantis: The Second Age or High Medieval might be options.
If you want to get rid of random chargen, but you can get away with just sort-of blurring the rigidness of classes & levels, then Fantasy Craft might be an option. It's not for me--too fiddly and too much d20 still in its bones--but it might be for you. I have a copy for sale by the way. ;)
BTW, have you asked the player what systems he/she does like? That might give us a better idea of what to suggest.
Thanks for all the advices, Ill keep you posted as to my decisions and the player ultimate choices too.
There is no "good" point-buy fantasy RPG. There are adequate ones, and terrible ones.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;486927There is no "good" point-buy fantasy RPG. There are adequate ones, and terrible ones.
RPGPundit
Feel free to back up that opinion with reasoned, rational and well-thought out facts.
I know you're capable of reasoning, rationality and thinking.
I may consider a point buy version of Pathfinder.
I recommend taking a look at Everstone: Blood Legacy. It does have levels but everything is point buy. Every class ability is bought with points. It is built off of the OGL.
Greg Stolze's Reign does point buy can scale to Epic games if you want and still has a fairly medium rules level. I'm not a huge fan of the stock world, it's ok but has some weirdness for the sake of weirdness. Fortunately you can ignore the world in the full game or get the cheaper setting free Enchiridion version. It uses the One Roll Engine also seen in Nemisis and Godlike.
You're going to have to either go with Fantasy HERO or adapt Mutants & Masterminds to fit, because what you're looking for--for all intents and purposes--is a superhero TRPG in fantasy drag.
Doesn't M&M have a fantasy supplement?
There is a free RPG called Warrior, Rogue & Mage that is worth looking into.
Here are a couple of reviews
http://www.gameknightreviews.com/2010/12/book-review-warrior-rogue-mage-by-michael-wolf/
Here's Ken St. Andre (Tunnels & Trolls dude) talking about it...
http://atroll.wordpress.com/2010/10/23/warrior-rogue-and-mage-a-critical-review/
Quote from: Elliot Wilen;487020Doesn't M&M have a fantasy supplement?
Warriors & Warlocks, for M&M2e.
I wouldn't bother with W&W. You have to buy both books, and there are game mechanics that were put in to balance superheroes that don't work at all at the heroic fantasy level, but they didn't address that. IMHO, it's not a good choice.
Lots of good suggestions here, but without a way to narrow down your preference we're just compiling a list. Let add D6 Adventure to it; there's lots of dice bouncing and the game lends itself to iconic and heroic characters.
Quote from: RPGPundit;486927There is no "good" point-buy fantasy RPG. There are adequate ones, and terrible ones.
RPGPundit
Mr. RPGPundit, I think we can change your mind. :)
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/wayfarers-core-rulebook.html
We no longer boast a bear man on our cover (which might cost us a point with you), but where you gave our first effort a 7, I think you'd give this revised version a 9. (I wouldn't presume you'd ever give point-buy fantasy a 10.)
It's revised, not an entirely new game, but we pushed it in all the right directions.
Quote from: markkat;487122Mr. RPGPundit, I think we can change your mind. :)
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/wayfarers-core-rulebook.html
We no longer boast a bear man on our cover (which might cost us a point with you), but where you gave our first effort a 7, I think you'd give this revised version a 9. (I wouldn't presume you'd ever give point-buy fantasy a 10.)
It's revised, not an entirely new game, but we pushed it in all the right directions.
Well, if you feel really sure of that, you could always send us a review copy.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Lawbag;486714I tried RuneQuest with the group too but for some reason it didnt grab them.
Which version and why not?
Quote from: markkat;487122We no longer boast a bear man on our cover
Dude, no bear man and warrior nun? You're losing me here. :D
Quote from: RPGPundit;487286Well, if you feel really sure of that, you could always send us a review copy.
RPGPundit
Deal.
Once I have a copy in my hands, I'll let you know.
Quote from: CRKrueger;487342Dude, no bear man and warrior nun? You're losing me here. :D
I know, we took a real risk removing the nun hacking a S&M bear man to pieces. Only time will tell. :)
Well, not sure these strictly are point-buy, but at least they're not class- and level-based:
Exalted (no problem to crank it up to really epic levels)
FATE (the fantasy variant is Legends of Anglerre, but if GURPS is a contender, you could also try out the generic FATE iteration called Strands of FATE)
A system i like for fantasy is Roll&Keep, there are two versions for it:
7th Sea (swashbuckling pseudo-europe setting)
and
L5R (fantasy version of a mix of Japan/Korea/China)
7th Sea is OOP but i am sure you could find copies secondhand or go to drivethru to buy electronic copies.
Quote from: markkat;487368Deal.
Once I have a copy in my hands, I'll let you know.
Very well then.
RPGPundit
Quote from: markkat;487122Mr. RPGPundit, I think we can change your mind. :)
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/wayfarers-core-rulebook.html
We no longer boast a bear man on our cover (which might cost us a point with you), but where you gave our first effort a 7, I think you'd give this revised version a 9. (I wouldn't presume you'd ever give point-buy fantasy a 10.)
It's revised, not an entirely new game, but we pushed it in all the right directions.
Markkat, can you tell us a little more about the revision? I have the pdf of the current version and I'm curious. When will it be released?
Quote from: The_Shadow;488030Markkat, can you tell us a little more about the revision? I have the pdf of the current version and I'm curious. When will it be released?
You might want to ask, and he might want to answer, on a separate thread. Not just to avoid derailing this thread but so that the conversation doesn't get lost here, and others who might be interested would hear about it.
RPGPundit
Hello RPGPundit.
You expressed a willingness here to review our revised Wayfarers RPG. It was just released by Mongoose, and if you are still willing, I'd love to send you a copy.
If so, could you please send an address to jimmy@yeoldegamingcompanye.com
Thanks!
-Jimmy
Quote from: markkat;487122Mr. RPGPundit, I think we can change your mind. :)
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/wayfarers-core-rulebook.html
We no longer boast a bear man on our cover (which might cost us a point with you), but where you gave our first effort a 7, I think you'd give this revised version a 9. (I wouldn't presume you'd ever give point-buy fantasy a 10.)
It's revised, not an entirely new game, but we pushed it in all the right directions.
How does the revised edition differ from the original?
Legend of Anglerre
Different Brp fantasy editions
Gurps 4th ed with the Dungeon series of pdf's
And if you like Gumshoe, I do think there is a fantasy game in the works there.
GURPS limited to low powered? Well, I will say that I think the point system starts breaking down at 600 points but that's pretty high powered. (and by that I mean that the balance of skill costs to attributes gets a little wonky without a GM imposed limit on things) No settings? Well, Bane Storm is a setting, I'm not sure if they've released the Fantasy Adventures book as a pdf but it's got a few interesting ones.
Fighters of the Purple Rage involves the escape of the final seven gladiators from a grand elimination. They're hiding out in the sewers and there's a bounty.
Mordag's Little Finger involves a stollen wizard's staff that happens to be the little finger of a very much undead giant vampire.
Neither of those are what I'd call low powered.
Sahudese Fire Drill is a comedy hose job. You'll love it or hate it but you'll never look at oriental settings quite the same.
The other one I can't recall the name of but there's a gate to a shadow plane in it.
Anyhow, Low Powered? 600 Points?
Attributes:
ST 20 [100], DX 15 [100], IQ 12 [40], HT 15 [50].
Base Lift: 720 Lbs; Max Lift 5600 Lbs; Base Speed 7.5; Top Flight Speed 120 (240 mph)
Advantages:
Lifting Strength +40 [120]; DR 10 [50], Flight [40], Enhanced Flight Move x 8 [60], Innate Attack (Fire Blast) 6d6 [30].
Disadvantages:
Curious 11- [-10]; Dependant (Dear Old Dad) 11- [10]; Sense of Duty (Team Mates) [-5] Weakness (Water) [-10]; Enemy (equal power) 11- [-15]; Code of Honor (hero's) [-15].
Quirks:
Blunt and Humorless [-1]; Saves Dogs Over Humans [-1]; Odious Personal Habit: Cynical Nihilism [-1]; Flies While Reading the Paper [-1].
Skills
Climbing 15 [2]; Electronics (Audio Visual) 12 [2]; Flight 20 [20]; Judo 15 [4]; Karate 15 [4]; Innate Attack (Fire Blast) 21 [24]; Merchant (home appliances) 13 [8]; Politics 11 [1]; Scrounging 11 [1]; Stealth 15 [2]; Swimming 15 [2].
Doesn't look particularly low powered to me, anyhow. He's no Superman, but he's immune to 9mm pistols, can fly 240mph, and lift a couple tonnes. And if I'd done a straight mundane build he'd be insanely scary in whatever he put his mind to. Conan wouldn't break 500 points in 4th edition, now that he's paying less for strength and all that.
Quote from: Narf the Mouse;486720Hero could work, but it's also not rife with campaign and adventure supplements, especially Fantasy.
I highly recommend
The Turakian Age and the Fantasy Hero Grimoire supplements, which are designed to work mainly with that setting.
On the other hand a point-buy Pathfinder seems interesting.
jg
Quote from: Tetsubo;526423How does the revised edition differ from the original?
The_Shadow wanted to know the same. I started a new thread here:
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=526737#post526737
Thanks,
-Jimmy