Quote from: TrippyHippy;979126Bizarre logic. I don't think you are capable of following a discussion, and are just lashing out accordingly.

Classy, the way you had to edit a snide attack in, on top of the dismissal. You started this tangent with name calling, and now you've escalated to crying victimhood because someone draws a different line between a supplement and a game than you do. And apparently even more horrifically, people are actually talking about it. (Shudder!) They must be stopped, right?

Nobody's persecuting you.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;979126The Origins Awards this year, picked these titles in their "Roleplaying Games" category:

...
Volo's Guide to Monsters by Wizards of the Coast-D&D

Make of that what you will.

You're implying a book of monster lore is a stand-alone RPG. No, it's not.

Quote from: AsenRG;979134But I'd like to give a special shout-out to Orbital 2100 by Zozer Games. It's at least as much of a "game" as AiME:D!

Is that an updated version of Orbital, a near-future sf game that was available on Lulu a couple years back? Sounded interesting, but I never snagged a copy.

Quote from: AsenRG;979134Much as I love FS2, are you sure it was published in the 2016?

I got my copy in 2015, and checking the Kickstarter updates, everything from the final backer PDF, thru books shipping to backers, to the books being available in retail happened in 2015 (April, July, and September, respectively).

Quote from: Pat;979148Nobody's persecuting you.

I don't think they are, but I think you are an idiot for claiming I hadn't read your post and I think you are reacting because I called you on it. Moreover, don't flatter yourself to think I've singled you out on the matter of editing. I edit half my posts, whenever I think of something else relevant to say, or to clarify, or to check spelling. I couldn't care less what you think is classy or not.

QuoteYou're implying a book of monster lore is a stand-alone RPG. No, it's not.

No, actually what I did was to provide a full list of the Origins 2017 Nominees under the category "Roleplaying Games". If I was implying anything it was that if these judges couldn't give a shit about categorisation, then why should we here on this thread?

You do realise that, technically, the AD&D 1st Player's Handbook was a 'supplement'. It didn't have complete rules, and required other rules to play (and the DMG with all the combat tables didn't actually arrive for a couple of years). What it was supposed to be a supplement to, I have no idea, yet people have always regarded it as it's own game.

A supplement, to my mind, is something that enhances or completes the core rules of a game. Adventures in Middle Earth doesn't enhance or complete the D&D Players Handbook at all - it doesn't add to the classes, spells or anything to do with the D&D game - it merely utilises and requires the reference of the D&D5E system in order to play (and this could simply be the free Basic D&D rules) as you need. 'Requires another book' doesn't mean 'supplemental to', and really it's just a marketing ploy to encourage players to try out their game with the familiarity of a popular system. Its still it's own game, though, which is quite different to D&D. I'd imagine if they could publish the game with the full mechanics included they may well have done - but I expect the license prohibited it, and the system is so familiar and simple that I doubt it would have made much difference. The whole definition of what constitutes a seperate 'game' became immensely blurred when D20 came out, but it's just an issue of marketing ultimately.

It's a grey area, which is all anybody has argued on this thread. Moreover, why anybody feels the need to police people on this thread for simply listing their favourite games is beyond me. If ICv2 and Origins don't care, then neither should we.

Okay let's just all accept that the OP is best rpg or supplement and move on shall we?

Curse of Strahd is excellent, didn't realize it was released in 2016 or I would have included it.

Quote from: Pat;979150Is that an updated version of Orbital, a near-future sf game that was available on Lulu a couple years back? Sounded interesting, but I never snagged a copy.

Yeah, it is, but it was updated for the Cepheus Engine in 2016, so it kinda fits.
I can't tell how much was changed, since I didn't get it before the update:).

QuoteI got my copy in 2015, and checking the Kickstarter updates, everything from the final backer PDF, thru books shipping to backers, to the books being available in retail happened in 2015 (April, July, and September, respectively).

I'm also a KS backer, but assumed I might be misremembering the year when I received it;)!

John Kim, the OP, runs the Indie RPG awards, and was looking for games published in 2016 that would qualify for the award, and hoping you all might nominate some. That's why his interpretation of what an RPG is more important than yours for this purpose.

I released four new RPGs in 2016 - along with 5 new editions of older games - ND nine supplements, but there's a limit of two of each per designer for the Indie RPG award. Knowing you clowns would never nominate a non-OSR game, I picked two of each and nominated myself.

Quote from: flyingmice;979305John Kim, the OP, runs the Indie RPG awards, and was looking for games published in 2016 that would qualify for the award, and hoping you all might nominate some. That's why his interpretation of what an RPG is more important than yours for this purpose.

I released four new RPGs in 2016 - along with 5 new editions of older games - ND nine supplements, but there's a limit of two of each per designer for the Indie RPG award. Knowing you clowns would never nominate a non-OSR game, I picked two of each and nominated myself.

This is the Internet. No one's opinion is ever more important than mine!

Quote from: TrippyHippy;979189I don't think they are, but I think you are an idiot for claiming I hadn't read your post and I think you are reacting because I called you on it.

Your reply had nothing to do with my post. You're only calling out your own stupidity.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;979189No, actually what I did was to provide a full list of the Origins 2017 Nominees under the category "Roleplaying Games". If I was implying anything it was that if these judges couldn't give a shit about categorisation, then why should we here on this thread?

One of which is a book monster lore, thereby implying it's an "RPG".

But the Origins category is a poor analogy, because they're not making any distinction between stand alone game and supplements. It's explicitly a category for anything at all related to RPGs, whereas in this discussion we're making a distinction between supplements and core games.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;979189You do realise that, technically, the AD&D 1st Player's Handbook was a 'supplement'. It didn't have complete rules, and required other rules to play (and the DMG with all the combat tables didn't actually arrive for a couple of years). What it was supposed to be a supplement to, I have no idea, yet people have always regarded it as it's own game.

A supplement, to my mind, is something that enhances or completes the core rules of a game. Adventures in Middle Earth doesn't enhance or complete the D&D Players Handbook at all - it doesn't add to the classes, spells or anything to do with the D&D game - it merely utilises and requires the reference of the D&D5E system in order to play (and this could simply be the free Basic D&D rules) as you need. 'Requires another book' doesn't mean 'supplemental to', and really it's just a marketing ploy to encourage players to try out their game with the familiarity of a popular system. Its still it's own game, though, which is quite different to D&D. I'd imagine if they could publish the game with the full mechanics included they may well have done - but I expect the license prohibited it, and the system is so familiar and simple that I doubt it would have made much difference. The whole definition of what constitutes a seperate 'game' became immensely blurred when D20 came out, but it's just an issue of marketing ultimately.

It's a grey area, which is all anybody has argued on this thread. Moreover, why anybody feels the need to police people on this thread for simply listing their favourite games is beyond me. If ICv2 and Origins don't care, then neither should we.

You're the only one policing things, by trying to shut down discussion. The rest of us are just discussing definitions. Which you actually do as well, in this post.

I think there are multiple ways to define supplements. But the Players Handbook isn't a good example, because, as you asked, what exactly does it supplement? Nothing. It does require other books to play (the DMG and MM), but that's mutual. They're all equally core. Whereas 5e doesn't need AiMe, but AiMe does need 5e. So by at least one definition, it's a supplement. If you expand the definition to include the core book of a product line/brand, then you could argue that AiMe is core and not a supplement. Either way, I'd say the primary distinction between a core book and a supplement is dependence.

Quote from: flyingmice;979305Knowing you clowns would never nominate a non-OSR game, I picked two of each and nominated myself.

I've suggested a few that aren't OSR. Here are a few more (with the caveat I've never played them, they just sound interesting). I believe they're all from 2016.

Cryptomancer, Land of NOP
Chariot, Room 207 Press
Quill, Trollish Delver Games

I quite like the Airship Daedalus RPG from Deep7.

Quote from: Pat;979323Your reply had nothing to do with my post. You're only calling out your own stupidity.

It had everything to do with it - directly referring to your points.

QuoteOne of which is a book monster lore, thereby implying it's an "RPG".

It's not my list. You are reading your own implication into it.

QuoteBut the Origins category is a poor analogy, because they're not making any distinction between stand alone game and supplements. It's explicitly a category for anything at all related to RPGs, whereas in this discussion we're making a distinction between supplements and core games.

They categorise their list as "Roleplaying Games". It's not an analogy.

QuoteYou're the only one policing things, by trying to shut down discussion. The rest of us are just discussing definitions. Which you actually do as well, in this post.

I'm not able, and have never been able to shut down discussion - moreover the discussion isn't about you and I, it's meant to be about picking best games of 2016.

QuoteI think there are multiple ways to define supplements. But the Players Handbook isn't a good example, because, as you asked, what exactly does it supplement? Nothing. It does require other books to play (the DMG and MM), but that's mutual. They're all equally core. Whereas 5e doesn't need AiMe, but AiMe does need 5e. So by at least one definition, it's a supplement. If you expand the definition to include the core book of a product line/brand, then you could argue that AiMe is core and not a supplement. Either way, I'd say the primary distinction between a core book and a supplement is dependence.

When the Player's Handbook was released there was no Dungeon Master's Guide, and wasn't for several years. The prefix 'Advanced' led some gaming groups to surmise that it was a supplement to the OD&D box set and in a way it was, as it had simply collated all the supplemental material released in the interim. So is it a core rules book or a supplement? It's a grey area. By extension, the Adventures in Middle Earth is a more complete game that 1st Ed AD&D was, at the time of the Player's Handbook's initial release, and you can easily get by with just an SRD.

And for me, as a single RPG book release of any description in 2016, Adventures in Middle Earth is probably the one that made the most impact in the hobby.

Quote from: Pat;979325I've suggested a few that aren't OSR. Here are a few more (with the caveat I've never played them, they just sound interesting). I believe they're all from 2016.

It was just a joke, Pat - I didn't mean it literally!

Since I started all of this: Where in the OP does he specify wanting "self-contained" or "supplements"?

Adventures in Middle-earth is the best game that I purchased last year. Some of its supplements have a good shot of being my favorite products this year.

It's a game and it's really really good.

For an OSR pick: Hero's Journey from Barrell Rider Games.

As an update, you can check out the 38 games and 11 supplements that are registered so far on the Indie RPG Awards page.

http://indie-rpg-awards.com/2016/

I think I've got all the stuff mentioned in this thread that is remotely indie.

Quote from: jhkim;980368As an update, you can check out the 38 games and 11 supplements that are registered so far on the Indie RPG Awards page.

http://indie-rpg-awards.com/2016/

I think I've got all the stuff mentioned in this thread that is remotely indie.

Hero's Journey from Barrell Rider Games?