I really like science fiction, and in particular stuff from the 50s and 60s from guys like Clarke. I don't really run that many science fiction campaigns though, and I am looking for the right system to do hard sci-fi one-shots every so often. So I am looking for something that either doesn't have a baked in premise or is adjustable enough that removing its premise would allow for a range of scenarios. Preferably on the lighter end with rules, because I want to be able to run it at a moments notice. Anyone have suggestions?
Maybe one of the 1PG RPGs from Heyoka or Deep 7? One page of rules and one of character sheet. Exosuit A-OK for anime-style sci-fi. Star Legion for more straight sci-fi.
Quote from: Tod13;917465Maybe one of the 1PG RPGs from Heyoka or Deep 7? One page of rules and one of character sheet. Exosuit A-OK for anime-style sci-fi. Star Legion for more straight sci-fi.
One Page is a little too lean for my tastes.
So plain old Traveller won't do?
Quote from: Simlasa;917467So plain old Traveller won't do?
I like traveller fine, but looking for something a little on the lighter and more recent side.
Yeah, Traveller or maybe Star Frontiers though both have their issues in every edition.
Alternately Star Cluster by Flying Mice Games which is very good, generic, mature, and supported with multiple settings.
Flesh it out with The 1PG Companion?
Or:
Barbarians of the Void
BASH! Sci-Fi Edition
White Star
1. What does "hard sci-fi" mean to you?
2. What in Traveller is "heavy" that you would want something lighter?
Reason I'm asking is that hard sci-fi generally means more science, less handwavium which would seem to contradict the rules-light requirement. Also my gut tells me the harder the sci-fi the less appropriate it would be for one-shots.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;917468I like traveller fine, but looking for something a little on the lighter and more recent side.
Not sure why 'recent' matters but Mongoose Traveller 2e just came out... and seems pretty light to me, so far.
What about River of Heaven? The scifi version of Openquest, a lighter flavor of BRP. It's got a somewhat transhumanist setting but that can be ignored.
Quote from: CRKrueger;9174721. What does "hard sci-fi" mean to you?
2. What in Traveller is "heavy" that you would want something lighter?
Reason I'm asking is that hard sci-fi generally means more science, less handwavium which would seem to contradict the rules-light requirement. Also my gut tells me the harder the sci-fi the less appropriate it would be for one-shots.
1) By hard science fiction I mean that the physics of the setting are bound more by real science or plausible ideas and more in the spirit of stuff like say Foundation than Star Wars or something. Each one shot might be somewhere different on the spectrum though. I guess what I am saying is less 'action/adventure' more real worldy feel.
2) More streamlined might have been a better way for me to put it. But basically faster character creation, more unified mechanics, and preferably something on the light side of things. It isn't so much that traveller is too heavy though, it is more that I want a newer more shiny system to entice my players with.
I am thinking of doing either more limited scenarios as one shots or small 3-6 session campaigns here. So a one shot hard science fiction session to me would be taking something like the HAL 9000 crisis in 2001 and turning that into a single session adventure.
Quote from: Simlasa;917476Not sure why 'recent' matters but Mongoose Traveller 2e just came out... and seems pretty light to me, so far.
Because Traveller hasn't been met with a lot of excitement when I've suggested it, and I think something newer might be.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;917478I am thinking of doing either more limited scenarios as one shots or small 3-6 session campaigns here. So a one shot hard science fiction session to me would be taking something like the HAL 9000 crisis in 2001 and turning that into a single session adventure.
I'm going to re-suggest the 1PG RPGs with Star Legion, 1PG Companion, Star Legion: Ignition, and Star Legion: Blastoff. Add in rules until it is crunchy enough.
Quote from: Tod13;917482I'm going to re-suggest the 1PG RPGs with Star Legion, 1PG Companion, Star Legion: Ignition, and Star Legion: Blastoff. Add in rules until it is crunchy enough.
It certainly is cheap enough. If it has supplements that add a little more heft I will take a look.
Brendan, I figure you're already be familiar with Thousand Suns? It's specifically aimed at emulating the kind of scifi you mention and possibly a wee bit lighter on the rules than Traveller.
Link: Thousand Suns: Rulebook - Grognardia Games | RPGNow.com (//www.rpgnow.com/product/97661/Thousand-Suns-Rulebook)
Quote from: 3rik;917488Brendan, I figure you're already be familiar with Thousand Suns? It's specifically aimed at emulating the kind of scifi you mention and possibly a wee bit lighter on the rules than Traveller.
Link: Thousand Suns: Rulebook - Grognardia Games | RPGNow.com (//www.rpgnow.com/product/97661/Thousand-Suns-Rulebook)
I am familiar with that one.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;917484It certainly is cheap enough. If it has supplements that add a little more heft I will take a look.
It has three supplements, two that are sci-fi specific and then the Companion, which is more general rules. The nice thing is you can take more rules from the other games if you need and want.
The Star Legion stuff details what each adds.
http://drivethrurpg.com/product/18191/Star-Legion
http://drivethrurpg.com/product/50128/Star-Legion-Ignition
http://drivethrurpg.com/product/50129/Star-Legion-Blastoff
http://drivethrurpg.com/product/18177/The-1PG-Companion
Here is the table of contents, since the Companion lacks detailed descriptions.
Spoiler
INTRODUCTION . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
1PG TABLETOP SYSTEM . . . . .3
VEHICLES: UNDER THE HOOD . . . . .3
VEHICLE MOVEMENT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
AERIALMOVEMENT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
OUTERSPACE MOVEMENT . . . . . . . . . . .5
WATER & UNDERWATER MOVEMENT . . . .5
TERRAIN EFFECTS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
VEHICLE COMBAT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
ROLL OUT THE GUNS . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
CLOSING WITH ANOTHER VEHICLE . . . . .5
FIRING UPON ANOTHER VEHICLE . . . . . . .5
VEHICLE ARMOR & DAMAGE . . . . . . . . . .5
DAMAGE AGAINST CHARACTERS . . . . . . .6
MISCELLANEOUS RULES . . . . . . . . .6
VEHICLE DESCREPENCIES . . . . . . . . . . .6
MOUNTED MANEUVERING & COMBAT . . . .7
PLAYER CHARACTERS & VEHICLES . . . . .7
SAMPLE VEHICLES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8
BLOOD AND GUTS . . . . . . . . . .9
BRAWLING . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
ATTACKS AND DAMAGE . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
RECOVERY FROM A KO . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
ADDITIONAL REALISM . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
SEVERE BEATING RECOVERY . . . . . . . . .9
MOVEMENT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
HEALING . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
LOCK N' LOAD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
RELOADING . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
JAMMING . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
CALLED SHOTS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
SEEKING COVER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
SWITCHING WEAPONS . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
FIGHTING IN THE DARK . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
FIGHTING PRONE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
KNOCKDOWN/KNOCKBACK . . . . . . . . . . .10
CONTROLLING THE GAME . . . .11
MIXING GENRES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11
GETTING REALLY WEIRD . . . . . . . . . . . .11
BALANCING ERAS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11
ENEMY MINE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11
PENNIES FROM HEAVEN . . . . . . . . . . . . .12
ADDING ODDITY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12
CHARACTER ADVANCEMENT .13
ADVANCEMENT RULES . . . . . . . . . . .13
INCREASING SKILLS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .13
INCREASING ATTRIBUTES . . . . . . . . . . . .14
BUYING STUNTS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .14
STAT REFERENCE CHART . . . .14
DESIGNER NOTES . . . . . . . . . . .14
1PG SCENARIOS . . . . . . . . . . . .14
Hard sci-fi just means "this is hard" to do. Any game mechanic will work pretty much for that. Ask your players which mechanic they prefer.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;9174781) By hard science fiction I mean that the physics of the setting are bound more by real science or plausible ideas and more in the spirit of stuff like say Foundation than Star Wars or something. Each one shot might be somewhere different on the spectrum though. I guess what I am saying is less 'action/adventure' more real worldy feel.
I'm kind of stumped here because MongTrav 1e checks all of these boxes to me.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;9174782) More streamlined might have been a better way for me to put it. But basically faster character creation, more unified mechanics, and preferably something on the light side of things. It isn't so much that traveller is too heavy though, it is more that I want a newer more shiny system to entice my players with.
Stars Without Number do anything to you? What about clash's Starcluster family of games?
I'll put Rogue Space in the suggestion box. It's by the same author as Heroes and Other Worlds. An independent system that I have seen used for quite a range of science fiction, with the lightness and breadth of a quality game. Very nice it is. It is over on Lulu.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;917480Because Traveller hasn't been met with a lot of excitement when I've suggested it, and I think something newer might be.
Sorry, but the answer is still Traveller. It even has a new edition.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;917609Sorry, but the answer is still Traveller. It even has a new edition.
Maybe take the Traveller book and put a big sticker across the front that says 'New Game!!!' If you've got access to a Bedazzler you could add some jewels to it as well.
What parts of hard science fiction do you want in your game?
Quote from: TrippyHippy;917609Sorry, but the answer is still Traveller. It even has a new edition.
Yeah, I am not going to force a game on my players if they don't have interest. I think traveller is a fine game. Just not on the table for this particular group.
Quote from: jeff37923;917616What parts of hard science fiction do you want in your game?
It is going to vary, because these are going to be one-shots. But what I am really looking to do is build each one shot around a lot of research into a particular subject that happens to be of interest to me at a given moment. But stuff like more realistic limits on space travel.
Quote from: The Butcher;917606I'm kind of stumped here because MongTrav 1e checks all of these boxes to me.
The game isn't a bad fit. It is nothing against traveller.
Quote2) More streamlined might have been a better way for me to put it. But basically faster character creation, more unified mechanics, and preferably something on the light side of things. It isn't so much that traveller is too heavy though, it is more that I want a newer more shiny system to entice my players with.
Clash's games are awesome games. I even play tested one of them with my other group. So I think these would be good with the right crew, just like Traveller would, but they are also very much in the spirit of traveller. Stars without Numbers looked pretty good (I haven't played it before) but it sounds like an OSR, which again might work with my other group but this crowd isn't a fan of OSR or d20 stuff (but if it is different enough, it may be something I could suggest)
Quote from: Simlasa;917611Maybe take the Traveller book and put a big sticker across the front that says 'New Game!!!' If you've got access to a Bedazzler you could add some jewels to it as well.
I am a fan of older games. And with the right group, I am happy to run 1E, Traveller, etc. I do have a group of players who are interested in that sort of thing and for them that stuff is an easy sell. But every group is different. Some players like newer games, some players don't want stuff that is OSR or has an older vibe to it. I have no problem selecting a system that fits those preferences. I don't see it as a character flaw that people want to play something new.
Quote from: Kuroth;917608I'll put Rogue Space in the suggestion box. It's by the same author as Heroes and Other Worlds. An independent system that I have seen used for quite a range of science fiction, with the lightness and breadth of a quality game. Very nice it is. It is over on Lulu.
Thanks. I haven't heard of this one before. Is it only available on Lulu?
No Problem! Ya, I believe only on lulu. Christopher offers Rogue Space in print and pdf there. The booklet is nicely illustrated too. Here are some links.
http://roguespacerpg.blogspot.com/
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/fenwayfive
Christopher's more often updated Heroes page:
http://heroworlds.blogspot.com
Stars without Numbers is D&D (1980s) combined with Traveller, with some interesting additions by Kevin. It's a favorite of this site. Sort of surprised you haven't played it at some point Brendan given your contribution level here! ha I'm pretty sure it would be Pundit's suggestion. It does have adventure seeds and Kevin's Tag method of developing campaigns, which are both handy to use with other games too. The Tags are interesting from a purely game design point of view too.
Something I have done in the past is use a standard game paired with a new setting art book for views of a world, people and such. For example, I used The Art of Mass Effect for my Traveller (1977) Mass Effect campaign. So, the origin game was given the gloss of shiny newness. Players didn't need to look at the Traveller booklets, since I made up a few little sheets for them. It was a way to keep things fresh in appearance for players, and they were able to forget that it was the old game they knew from ages past. Select an artist or collection that captures the science fiction world you have in mind, which the internet is your friend to find.
I didn't really care for Savage Worlds in the past, but the most recent explorers edition removed the layout and presentation elements that I disliked. The Last Parsec is a really nice science fiction setting ready to play, though not the most hard science fiction setting ever. Just as hard as Stars Without Number, though. It is quite nice and very shiny! Might be more investment in a game than you are interested, though.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;917656I don't see it as a character flaw that people want to play something new.
I don't either but it's not a very meaningful quality to judge a game by... might as well be, 'We don't want to play any games with blue on the cover.'
On second thought, maybe I do see it as a character flaw... not a big one though, just a quirk. Like my friend who just refuses to watch any movies older than late 90s... unless it's Star Wars or Indiana Jones.
Quote from: Kuroth;917660No Problem! Ya, I believe only on lulu. Christopher offers Rogue Space in print and pdf there. The booklet is nicely illustrated too. Here are some links.
http://roguespacerpg.blogspot.com/
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/fenwayfive
Christopher's more often updated Heroes page:
http://heroworlds.blogspot.com
Thanks. I will pick up a copy.
QuoteStars without Numbers is D&D (1980s) combined with Traveller, with some interesting additions by Kevin. It's a favorite of this site. Sort of surprised you haven't played it at some point Brendan given your contribution level here! ha I'm pretty sure it would be Pundit's suggestion. It does have adventure seeds and Kevin's Tag method of developing campaigns, which are both handy to use with other games too. The Tags are interesting from a purely game design point of view too.
Something I have done in the past is use a standard game paired with a new setting art book for views of a world, people and such. For example, I used The Art of Mass Effect for my Traveller (1977) Mass Effect campaign. So, the origin game was given the gloss of shiny newness. Players didn't need to look at the Traveller booklets, since I made up a few little sheets for them. It was a way to keep things fresh in appearance for players, and they were able to forget that it was the old game they knew from ages past. Select an artist or collection that captures the science fiction world you have in mind, which the internet is your friend to find.
I didn't really care for Savage Worlds in the past, but the most recent explorers edition removed the layout and presentation elements that I disliked. The Last Parsec is a really nice science fiction setting ready to play, though not the most hard science fiction setting ever. Just as hard as Stars Without Number, though. It is quite nice and very shiny! Might be more investment in a game than you are interested, though.
I came late to Kevin Crawford's stuff. But just ordered Stars without Numbers since it sounds like I could pull a lot from it even if we don't go with the actual system.
I am currently playing in a Savage Worlds noir campaign. I like it fine. But I have trouble seeing it used for anything that isn't like Star Wars or Flash Gordon without changing a lot of the underlying mechanics (and Savage Worlds comes with some built in flavor expectations...people see the logo and assume 'pulp').
Quote from: Simlasa;917663I don't either but it's not a very meaningful quality to judge a game by... might as well be, 'We don't want to play any games with blue on the cover.'
On second thought, maybe I do see it as a character flaw... not a big one though, just a quirk. Like my friend who just refuses to watch any movies older than late 90s... unless it's Star Wars or Indiana Jones.
I think it is just that they might less approachable for some people. I watch a lot of older movies. My favorite films were made in the late 60s and early 70s, but they can be tough sells for a younger audience used to different pacing. I can understand why they are not as approachable if people are accustomed to more recent films. It isn't that they are judging the individual movie, they are just using an easy mental short cut to help them make efficient use of their time. So if you suggest an older movie, it isn't crazy for them to assume it might not be the best use of two hours for them. I think we all do that to an extent. People do that for all kinds of things. But this isn't religion, I don't care if someone doesn't like my older movies or games, or if they would rather take a chance on something newer than something older. The important thing for me when I run a campaign or even a one shot, is I want people to be enthusiastic going in, because I don't like spending time preparing for something if people aren't excited about it.
I agree with you about the pulp expectation of core Savage, with its graphic design elements, even though they have been reduced in presence. Honestly, the Last Parsec content was the reason I finally bought a selection of things for the game. I had sort of written the game off before it. Not trying to sell the game to you, though. It sounds like you have a slot for Savage already. So, well and good on its front.
The Last Parsec's free primer for any others curious:
HTTPS://www.peginc.com/store/the-last-parsec-primer/
Glad to help Rogue Space a bit!
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;917656I am a fan of older games. And with the right group, I am happy to run 1E, Traveller, etc. I do have a group of players who are interested in that sort of thing and for them that stuff is an easy sell. But every group is different. Some players like newer games, some players don't want stuff that is OSR or has an older vibe to it. I have no problem selecting a system that fits those preferences. I don't see it as a character flaw that people want to play something new.
You seem to be under the impression that the current Traveller edition somehow labours under ancient world mechanics and hasn't had any modernisation since the 1st edition. You are mistaken. Have a look at the software:
https://rpgsuite.com
Quote from: TrippyHippy;917670You seem to be under the impression that the current Traveller edition somehow labours under ancient world mechanics and hasn't had any modernisation since the 1st edition. You are mistaken. Have a look at the software:
https://rpgsuite.com
I am not under that impression. Traveller isn't on the table for this campaign.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;917672I am not under that impression. Traveller isn't on the table for this campaign.
Then stop harping on about it being an "old game" then.
And tell your players from me that their taste in games suck. On that basis alone, I recommend FATE.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;917652It is going to vary, because these are going to be one-shots. But what I am really looking to do is build each one shot around a lot of research into a particular subject that happens to be of interest to me at a given moment. But stuff like more realistic limits on space travel.
I am hard pressed to think of a game that would fit since my first choice is not one your players are keen on. However, I do recommend that you check out the Atomic Rockets (http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/index.php) website for some hard science and how it relates to science fiction.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;917673Then stop harping on about it being an "old game" then.
I am not. That post was in response to Simlasa's. But I think it has associations that are tough to shake from peoples' minds. If I say 'Traveller' new and shiny doesn't leap to mind for most people (even if there is a newly revised edition).
QuoteAnd tell your players from me that their taste in games suck. On that basis alone, I recommend FATE.
I will be sure to let them know your opinion Trippyhippy. I am sure it will keep them up at night that they've upset you. FATE is definitely not on the table, though.
Quote from: jeff37923;917675I am hard pressed to think of a game that would fit since my first choice is not one your players are keen on. However, I do recommend that you check out the Atomic Rockets (http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/index.php) website for some hard science and how it relates to science fiction.
Thanks that site looks really useful here.
QuoteI will be sure to let them your opinion Trippyhippy. I am sure it will keep them up at night that they've upset you. FATE is definitely not on the table, though.
One can hope - but you've simply laid bare your own prejudices rather than any definitive reasoning here. Not that it ought to keep anyone awake at night.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;917679One can hope - but you've simply laid bare your own prejudices rather than any definitive reasoning here. Not that it ought to keep anyone awake at night.
All I am trying to say here is I think Traveller is a good game, but it isn't what I am looking for this time around. It is going to be a tough sell and frankly, I just want to try something different that I haven't played before. I can't help it if people are interpreting that to mean 'I hate their precious game'. Nor can I help it if people demand better reasons for me not using it for this campaign.
It's not anyone's "precious game" (aside from Marc Miller, maybe) it's just the best one that fits the description of what your original post said you were looking for. If you're then adding vaguely reasoned stipulations that it's not what you want, then good luck to you, but you were the one asking.
If you want something that basically does the same thing as Traveller, but re-envisioned with an alternative system, then the upcoming M-Space for the Mythras/RQ6 system has a similar hard sci-fi feel.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;917690It's not anyone's "precious game" (aside from Marc Miller, maybe) it's just the best one that fits the description of what your original post said you were looking for. If you're then adding vaguely reasoned stipulations that it's not what you want, then good luck to you, but you were the one asking.
Well, I don't think I am under an obligation to explain why I might want or not want a particular game. And I probably should have said in the OP, that I am basically looking for something aside from Traveller. But I tried to address that as it came up. I can certainly understand suggesting traveller and being perplexed since it seems like it would fit well. But I don't get not understanding that it isn't what I am looking for in this instance. Nor do I understand getting defensive about it. I don't think it ought to be terribly controversial. It isn't a commentary on Traveller or Traveller's utility for this sort of game. It just isn't what I am looking to use right now. I've tried to offered reasons for people who asked, but I really don't care enough to defend each reason point by point.
Yep. You're now getting defensive about other people getting defensive which I naturally find ironic. But the suggestion of M-Space is worth checking out regardless. It does what you say you're looking for in a new language I guess:
http://basicroleplaying.org/topic/5191-m-space-test-print/
Quote from: TrippyHippy;917696Yep. You're now getting defensive about other people getting defensive which I naturally find ironic. But the suggestion of M-Space is worth checking out regardless. It does what you say you're looking for in a new language I guess:
http://basicroleplaying.org/topic/5191-m-space-test-print/
I don't know. I am just perplexed by that sort of reaction.
Part of what I am saying is the presentation and expectations the players have matters. So M Space might do the trick. Is it a variation on BRP?
Yes, it was originally meant to be a BRP supplement, but with Chaosium putting that on the back burner they converted it to what is now the Mythras system. The simple and clean layout of the game system, and its utility to a hard sci-fi setting harkens back to Classic Traveller in it's aesthetic but it's done in a BRP way. You'd need to get the Mythras Imperative booklet too for the core system, but that is a free download at The Design Mechanism site.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;917699Yes, it was originally meant to be a BRP supplement, but with Chaosium putting that on the back burner they converted it to what is now the Mythras system. The simple and clean layout of the game system, and its utility to a hard sci-fi setting harkens back to Classic Traveller in it's aesthetic but it's done in a BRP way. You'd need to get the Mythras Imperative booklet too for the core system, but that is a free download at The Design Mechanism site.
Okay. Is this the correct Mythras: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/185299/Mythras-Imperative
Yep. And M-Space itself is due for release very close to now. Check The Design Mechanism site - mainly the forum for details on M-Space - here: http://thedesignmechanism.com
I think the old BRP version may also still be free online at the BRP site too, although I may be wrong. The author is Clarence Redd.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;917703Yep. And M-Space itself is due for release very close to now. Check The Design Mechanism site - mainly the forum for details on M-Space - here: http://thedesignmechanism.com
I think the old BRP version may also still be free online at the BRP site too, although I may be wrong.
Okay. Looking at it, it doesn't look terribly rules light to me. Is M-Space a simplified version of the system?
2300AD anyone? Best hard sci-fi game ever, new traveller system version too.
Part of the problem is, what you're really asking for is a game that will meet the preconceived notions of this group that sound a little particular, jaded, spoiled, dickish and/or all of the above. Describing them might help us better then actual game features.
If your players are looking for a Sci-Fi game that's "new", you can literally give them that.
N.E.W. Is the Sci-Fi game portion of the Enworld RPG System. It's a toolkit system, so the Hard Sci-Fi I expect you could dial to what you want. It has starship construction and starship combat. It's self-described as tactical and crunchy, so dunno if that would fit. But is IS New, literally. :D
M-Space is BRP Space remade using the brand new Mythras Imperative version of the Mythras system. It's RQ6 basically, but best not to tell your players that and just use the word Mythras. If you look hard (like in the dropbox link I'll send you if you ask) you might be able to find a mythical supplement that shall not be named detailing RQ6 rules from a long time ago in a galaxy far far away which you could probably use with M-Space just fine.
Mythras Imperative is a free download and it is a lighter version of the system, but does have opposed rolls and success levels. I know everyone says this, but it's true...the combat system plays much faster than it reads.
Oh hey, new, rules lightish...have you looked at the Cypher System, Monte Cook's deal? I'm guessing there would have to be some hard-sci fi in The Strange.
Quote from: rgrove0172;9177072300AD anyone? Best hard sci-fi game ever, new traveller system version too.
Do keep up, anything branded Traveller is off the table due to player bias.
Oh, a new suggestion, D6 Space. (Free)
http://drivethrurpg.com/product/20447/D6-Space
http://drivethrurpg.com/product/20449/D6-Space-Ships
You can also use the more minimal Mini Six rules. (PWYW)
http://drivethrurpg.com/product/144558/Mini-Six-Bare-Bones-Edition
Quote from: CRKrueger;917708Part of the problem is, what you're really asking for is a game that will meet the preconceived notions of this group that sound a little particular, jaded, spoiled, dickish and/or all of the above. Describing them might help us better then actual game features.
Given some of the responses, I'd honestly rather not describe them. But what I will say is I have more than one group of players. The one I have in mind are none of those things (dickish, spoiled, etc). They just tend to like newer game systems that are on the lighter end of things. They also are more responsive in general to games that don't harken back to older systems. They don't shit on them. It just isn't what they are into and while I am sure they'd be willing to play anything I tried to run, I don't think a game like Traveller is going to get them terribly excited in the lead up.
Also this isn't just about the group. Like I said, I like traveller, I think it is a good game, but I'd like to try something I haven't really played before in this case. I am interested in trying out some new systems.
Quote from: CRKrueger;917711Oh hey, new, rules lightish...have you looked at the Cypher System, Monte Cook's deal? I'm guessing there would have to be some hard-sci fi in The Strange.
I had thought of cypher. The Strange seems like a reality bending game though. Numenera would definitely work for a City and the Stars or Against the Fall of Night campaign, in fact it seems built around some of Clarke's ideas, but it is very setting specific. So it seems like it might be a tough one to run outside of Ninth World. I suppose I could try hacking it though.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;917721Given some of the responses, I'd honestly rather not describe them. But what I will say is I have more than one group of players. The one I have in mind are none of those things (dickish, spoiled, etc). They just tend to like newer game systems that are on the lighter end of things. They also are more responsive in general to games that don't harken back to older systems. They don't shit on them. It just isn't what they are into and while I am sure they'd be willing to play anything I tried to run, I don't think a game like Traveller is going to get them terribly excited in the lead up.
Also this isn't just about the group. Like I said, I like traveller, I think it is a good game, but I'd like to try something I haven't really played before in this case. I am interested in trying out some new systems.
There's nothing wrong with wanting a new system just because, I do that myself. Maybe the players have experience with Traveller, with 2300, with SWN, or whatever, and it just doesn't do anything for them. What it sounds like though, is if I had a brand new game with glossy color pages and 21st century layout that was Traveller in all but name, they'd go for it and not know the difference.
If
you're looking for a new system, then what have you ruled out?
I couldn't find it on DTRPG, but Google found the Hard Science Fiction page there: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?filters=520_0_0_0_0
Ashen Stars uses Gumshoe, which a lot of people like.
LOL Then there is Judge Dredd (just don't tell the players it is actually Traveller? LOL)
Space Opera
Myriad Song
The Void Core
The Singularity System
And here is the same link with "Core rulebooks" selected: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?filters=520_2140_0_0_0
Heavy Gear or Jovian Chronicles, maybe? Not really new (nearly 20 years old), but it has unified mechanics, and has medium-light rules.
If I was Brendan I don't think I'd ever play suggest-a-game on the 'Site ever again. Jeez.
Though admittedly he seems to be up against a tough crowd. Rules-light, hard SF, no Traveller or Traveller-like, no OSR, no FATE. Is that right?
BRP (holy shit, there's a SF setting coming out for Mythras???) and Savage Worlds have already been suggested.
I'd throw in D6 Space. Sturdy little engine whose ability to do space opera has been thoroughly time-tested, but I'm sure it can do hard SF (albeit with Hollywood blockbuster sensibilities)
Other than that I suspect your safest bet is to convert your own house system to SF.
I haven't played it but what about Diaspora (http://http://www.vsca.ca/Diaspora/)? It's Fate, so kinda 'new' and aimed at firm to hard scifi.
EDIT: Oh, wait... was Fate ruled out as well?
I'm not up on Mythras Imperative yet but I wouldn't call Mythras 'rules light'... but grabbing the BRP Space stuff (doomed to come down any moment) and using it with River of Heaven might be a sleek maneuver... unless Openquest/BRP are off limits too.
There's a cool game. I've never played it but it's everything you want. Rules light hard sci fi. It pretty old but there a new edition.
I think it's called traveler.
Quote from: CRKrueger;917727There's nothing wrong with wanting a new system just because, I do that myself. Maybe the players have experience with Traveller, with 2300, with SWN, or whatever, and it just doesn't do anything for them. What it sounds like though, is if I had a brand new game with glossy color pages and 21st century layout that was Traveller in all but name, they'd go for it and not know the difference.
It doesn't literally need to be glossy. And my players would probably be on board if I said let's run Traveller or something. But they wouldn't light up the way they would if I found something they hadn't heard of yet that looks really interesting. Because this is a periodic one-shot, I feel like I really need that level of enthusiasm before play.
I'd also like something a bit lighter than Traveller and something that maybe approaches it with a slightly different feel. I want Hard Science Fiction, but I don't want to feel like I am playing traveller again. When it comes to light, what I am looking for is low learning curve, fast play, quick and easy character creation where players can design the kind of character they want.
QuoteIf you're looking for a new system, then what have you ruled out?
I have only just started thinking about it, so haven't ruled out much. In terms of new games I'd the Revised Traveller and N.E.W. Revised Traveller for reasons already stated. N.E.W. because my understanding is that whole line is intended to be rules medium (almost a kind of counter weight to the rules light stuff that is out there). I have no problem with rules medium games, but for this campaign, I really want something lighter.
I am definitely looking for newer games though. And like I said, I haven't run too many science fiction campaigns (generally I would be more inclined to be a player than GM in them in the past) so what I am hoping to do is get as big a list of new science fiction games as possible so I can browse my options.
I would suggest Transhuman Space but Gurps feels atrociously unfun to me see days. So, forget it.
Blue Planet ?
Quote from: Headless;917740There's a cool game. I've never played it but it's everything you want. Rules light hard sci fi. It pretty old but there a new edition.
I think it's called traveler.
Like I said, nothing against it. If it were a long term campaign, that is probably what I'd go for.
Quote from: The Butcher;917735If I was Brendan I don't think I'd ever play suggest-a-game on the 'Site ever again. Jeez.
.
I am really not trying to be an asshole. I am just trying to amass as many non-Traveller options to browse through as possible.
Quote from: Itachi;917742I would suggest Transhuman Space but Gurps feels atrociously unfun to me see days. So, forget it.
Blue Planet ?
I've never played Blue Planet. How is it mechanics wise?
Quote from: Simlasa;917737I haven't played it but what about Diaspora (http://http://www.vsca.ca/Diaspora/)? It's Fate, so kinda 'new' and aimed at firm to hard scifi.
EDIT: Oh, wait... was Fate ruled out as well?
I hate FATE probably more than any other game on the planet.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;917748I hate FATE probably more than any other game on the planet.
Oh, OK... I'm not fond of it either.
What about Sufficiently Advanced (http://suffadv.wikidot.com/)?
Quote from: Simlasa;917749Oh, OK... I'm not fond of it either.
What about Sufficiently Advanced (http://suffadv.wikidot.com/)?
That is kind of interesting. Not really used to Diceless play but the whole game appears to be on that site.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;917750That is kind of interesting. Not really used to Diceless play but the whole game appears to be on that site.
This page has a link to the 1st edition version, which uses D10s. Also free to DL: http://www.1km1kt.net/rpg/sufficiently-advanced
There's Void, which is solar system sci-fi. Kind of Hard...if you accept it's a Mythos setting. :D Still, there's nothing that says you have to include the Mythos stuff. It's a die pool game, kind of like the newer Shadowrun but way, way simpler.
Quote from: CRKrueger;917761There's Void, which is solar system sci-fi. Kind of Hard...if you accept it's a Mythos setting. :D Still, there's nothing that says you have to include the Mythos stuff. It's a die pool game, kind of like the newer Shadowrun but way, way simpler.
I was looking at Void and wondering how easy the Mythos stuff was to pull out. I am seeing alien comparisons but also some Heinlein comparisons.
Quote from: The Butcher;917735Other than that I suspect your safest bet is to convert your own house system to SF.
Following up on Butcher's comment, I would like to have a Terror Network supplement or setting book to run the type of science fiction you are describing Brendan.
Mike Pondsmith was mentioned on the site today. He has made a few games that are pretty hard science fiction. His Cyberpunk has good science in it. One could down play the cyberpunk political culture elements. There are a few cyberpunk games that would also fall into this way of using them, like Corporation. The Polychrome somewhat cyberpunk supplement for Stars Without Number would help bring the default setting down to Earth a bit. Going back to the 90s, Pondsmith's Buck Rogers was actually pretty hard science fiction.
Barbarians of the Void uses the Lemuria system for a fairly hard science fiction set-up, with appropriately science focused influences. So, even though there might be a perception of the parent game that follows it like Savage, it is actually pretty well suited, though it still has psionics, like so many mentioned. It's an independently made game available over on g__gle drive.
Barbarians of the Void (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxEfFjJxTck7cmNzaEtvV1NvbWM/edit)
I think we're looking at a case of Tigger Syndrome here.
Nah, tigger's don't climb trees.
Quote from: Kuroth;917830Following up on Butcher's comment, I would like to have a Terror Network supplement or setting book to run the type of science fiction you are describing Brendan.
Thanks but I am not talented in science/math enough to do a science fiction version of Network. If I ever did anything like that, I would need to co-design with someone who has a proper science background. I've thought of doing it in the past, but I just don't feel Arthur C. Clarke enough to do it. Even for my own use, I'd be reluctant.
QuoteMike Pondsmith was mentioned on the site today. He has made a few games that are pretty hard science fiction. His Cyberpunk has good science in it. One could down play the cyberpunk political culture elements. There are a few cyberpunk games that would also fall into this way of using them, like Corporation. The Polychrome somewhat cyberpunk supplement for Stars Without Number would help bring the default setting down to Earth a bit. Going back to the 90s, Pondsmith's Buck Rogers was actually pretty hard science fiction.
Cyberpunk has never been a huge draw to me, but I will check out more Pondsmith stuff based on your recommendation.
QuoteBarbarians of the Void uses the Lemuria system for a fairly hard science fiction set-up, with appropriately science focused influences. So, even though there might be a perception of the parent game that follows it like Savage, it is actually pretty well suited, though it still has psionics, like so many mentioned. It's an independently made game available over on g__gle drive.
Barbarians of the Void (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxEfFjJxTck7cmNzaEtvV1NvbWM/edit)
I'll check it out.
Here's one I did a couple years ago. It has its issues but character creation is spend 10 points on stats and skills so it's quick anyhow.
http://www3.telus.net/public/uncouths/Incandescent.pdf
I would rule out M-Space. I have played Mythras/RQ6 with some people who you game with (who will remain anonymous to protect them from the righteous fury of this thread), and some of them found it a little crunchy for their tastes. I suspect I could win them over with further sessions, but you are talking about a one-shot. It's definitely a game that takes a few sessions for the players to really get a handle on the options it gives, so as much as I love it, I would have to rule it out.
Since you already ordered Stars Without Number, I will talk about that.
I'm prepping a Stars Without Number campaign right now. I ignored the game for years because, while I have a fondness for D&D B/X as my first RPG, a sci-fi game built on it sounded misconceived. Eventually, after years of people talking about it, I looked at the free version that had been sitting in my hard drive for years. With the caveat that I haven't run it yet, I really like it.
I wouldn't call the default setting hard SF, but it isn't Star Wars either. I would describe it as gritty space opera. Players need to be smart or they stand a real chance of dying. It's certainly deadlier than Savage Worlds.
It's actually pretty kitchen sink, so a lot of things can be removed without effort to make it harder SF. It has psychics, but nothing breaks if you pull them out. It has tech level, so you can strip out TL5 and a lot of TL4 to get something more realistic. I'm not really trying to sell you on this game as perfect for hard SF, but I think I could manage it.
The default space rules involve hyperspace and artificial gravity. If you want something grittier, the supplement Engines of Babylon has rules for ships that lack FTL drive. You can get ships that feel more like the Nostromo than the Millenium Falcon.
Whether it works for you or not, it is a great book for inspiration, so I doubt you will regret ordering it.
With science-fiction books, I like to think of myself as an expert, so I wish I could recommend a more perfect game for your needs. Anyway, good luck with it, whatever you use.
I have written more Science Fiction games than anyone else. Straight fact, no exaggeration. My suggestion? Precis Intermedia's Hard Nova II. It really is so light it is as hard as you want it to be. It's like an ink sketch of a game. When you first read it, it seems rather soft, but really, it is approximately as hard as Traveller. It's not really new - it came out the same week as my first game back in 2002.
I've never played it, but if I ever ran a pure sci-fi game I would use Human Space Empires. Seems like an interesting set of rules with great potential.
Shemek
Quote from: Baulderstone;917845I would rule out M-Space. I have played Mythras/RQ6 with some people who you game with (who will remain anonymous to protect them from the righteous fury of this thread), and some of them found it a little crunchy for their tastes. I suspect I could win them over with further sessions, but you are talking about a one-shot. It's definitely a game that takes a few sessions for the players to really get a handle on the options it gives, so as much as I love it, I would have to rule it out.
Since you already ordered Stars Without Number, I will talk about that.
I'm prepping a Stars Without Number campaign right now. I ignored the game for years because, while I have a fondness for D&D B/X as my first RPG, a sci-fi game built on it sounded misconceived. Eventually, after years of people talking about it, I looked at the free version that had been sitting in my hard drive for years. With the caveat that I haven't run it yet, I really like it.
I wouldn't call the default setting hard SF, but it isn't Star Wars either. I would describe it as gritty space opera. Players need to be smart or they stand a real chance of dying. It's certainly deadlier than Savage Worlds.
It's actually pretty kitchen sink, so a lot of things can be removed without effort to make it harder SF. It has psychics, but nothing breaks if you pull them out. It has tech level, so you can strip out TL5 and a lot of TL4 to get something more realistic. I'm not really trying to sell you on this game as perfect for hard SF, but I think I could manage it.
The default space rules involve hyperspace and artificial gravity. If you want something grittier, the supplement Engines of Babylon has rules for ships that lack FTL drive. You can get ships that feel more like the Nostromo than the Millenium Falcon.
Whether it works for you or not, it is a great book for inspiration, so I doubt you will regret ordering it.
With science-fiction books, I like to think of myself as an expert, so I wish I could recommend a more perfect game for your needs. Anyway, good luck with it, whatever you use.
I ordered Stars without Number figuring there might be stuff I can use there even if I forgo the system, but when it arrives I will take a closer look at the rules and see if they fit what I am looking to do.
Quote from: Kuroth;917837Nah, tigger's don't climb trees.
Do they play Traveller? :D By which I mean Classic Traveller.
I ran a hard sci-fi one shot last year using a little micro-game called Void Station 57. It uses a modified sci-fi version of TFT that comes with the game. The rules are like 6 dense pages, but they are easily expanded (as most rules lite games are). I added a few choice bits from GURPS for weapons, technology and zero gravity. The scenario is kind of a creepy deep space mystery in vacuum suits. The PCs have come to the station to refuel and must be extra cautious due to fragile hulls, vac suits, malfunctioning computers, limited resources (like life support and fuel). It comes with a pretty good map of the station and little cardboard counters. I;m not usually into such props but I used them for this one shot. The adventure is written in "choose your own adventure" format which make it playable solo or easy to wing, but I just read the whole thing, and modified a few story elements and challenges. Worked great. It's probably not a long term solution as an RPG, but really everything you need for a one shot.
How about Legends of Time and Space?
http://www.darkcitygames.com/docs/TimeAndSpace.pdf
Simple, free PDF rules (6 pages of personal & ship combat system, map-based fairly realistic tactical combat). The design is based on The Fantasy Trip, but it's a new design spin-off of it. The rules are VERY concise - some people might need to read The Fantasy Trip - Melee at ~20 pages to get the context.)
It has two free short programmed sample adventures, and four $13 programmed adventures.
It's a simple but logic-based set of rules for tactical combat, both personal and with ships. But it could be used for the combat system for other settings & systems. If you were going to do the setting yourself, it could be ideal since there is almost no irrelevant system/setting noise.
Quote from: Skarg;918198How about Legends of Time and Space?
http://www.darkcitygames.com/docs/TimeAndSpace.pdf
Simple, free PDF rules (6 pages of personal & ship combat system, map-based fairly realistic tactical combat). The design is based on The Fantasy Trip, but it's a new design spin-off of it. The rules are VERY concise - some people might need to read The Fantasy Trip - Melee at ~20 pages to get the context.)
It has two free short programmed sample adventures, and four $13 programmed adventures.
It's a simple but logic-based set of rules for tactical combat, both personal and with ships. But it could be used for the combat system for other settings & systems. If you were going to do the setting yourself, it could be ideal since there is almost no irrelevant system/setting noise.
Yeah, that's the one I was talking about. Void Station 57 that I recommended above is for use with Legends of Time and Space, which is basically simplified and spacified TFT. I've been pretty happy converting their micro-games into RPG one shots.
Cool. I find the Legends rules too basic for me, but a good core set that anyone can learn immediately, and a GM could add whatever to add rules or adjustments where he wants them, though it is mainly just a combat system with some skills listed. For example, I would add rules for effects of injury, taking cover, firing through other figures, facing, and probably some sort of soft effects, partial healing per day of rest, as a minimum for a sci fi game, and do a little playtest and tweaking to see how things play out before I have PCs getting blasted & killed in the first firefight. :-)
Traveller or Ringworld or Stars Without Number.
Brendan: Have you ever thought of making your own game? I mean, you are game designer/publisher after all. Haven't you considered adding a sci-fi game to Bedrock's roster?
Quote from: RPGPundit;919746Brendan: Have you ever thought of making your own game? I mean, you are game designer/publisher after all. Haven't you considered adding a sci-fi game to Bedrock's roster?
I got into this earlier in the thread, but this is something where I don't feel my science background would be strong enough to do the kind of hard science fiction I like to read. So I would only do it if I found a person to work with who had a strong science background. At some point, it certainly could be a project I'd consider. I would have to wait for the pipeline to clear up though. I still have some big Ogre Gate books to put out, then I have a Supers game on the horizon (where I did exactly what I am talking about----brought someone in who understood it better than me).
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;919767I got into this earlier in the thread, but this is something where I don't feel my science background would be strong enough to do the kind of hard science fiction I like to read. So I would only do it if I found a person to work with who had a strong science background. At some point, it certainly could be a project I'd consider. I would have to wait for the pipeline to clear up though. I still have some big Ogre Gate books to put out, then I have a Supers game on the horizon (where I did exactly what I am talking about----brought someone in who understood it better than me).
What hard science fiction do you like to read? Give us some titles or authors so we can better grasp where you are coming from with the OP question.
Quote from: jeff37923;919776What hard science fiction do you like to read? Give us some titles or authors so we can better grasp where you are coming from with the OP question.
Well I think people have already given me some ample leads here. I ended up buying Stars without Number and looking into some of the others people mentioned. I won't be able to start prep on this one until after this month. What I may end up doing, since this is going to be an every now and then kind of thing, is try out a few different systems at first. Part of my trepidation is I've not run many Science Fiction campaigns as a gamemaster (been in plenty as a player).
To answer your question, I like all kinds of science fiction, but for this campaign I am going for stuff on the harder end as well as military science fiction. I do realize Hard Science Fiction is a bit of fuzzy line though and I am not terribly picky about the definition. I am a big fan of Arthur C. Clarke. Also stuff like Weir, Niven, Heinlein, Asimov, etc. By far the biggest influence would be Clarke. And my aim is to do them as short 1-6 session mini-campaigns where each might have its own concept and ideas. So I could be running something like Rendezvous with Rama one month, Starship Troopers on another and Contact or End of Eternity in another. Of course, if the first session bombs or something, maybe it will just be a one shot.
If it were me, I think I use traveller (Mongoose, because that's the one I have) Then would use the Hammers Slammers Traveller supplement. Mostly because I love the books and the setting.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;917462I really like science fiction, and in particular stuff from the 50s and 60s from guys like Clarke. I don't really run that many science fiction campaigns though, and I am looking for the right system to do hard sci-fi one-shots every so often. So I am looking for something that either doesn't have a baked in premise or is adjustable enough that removing its premise would allow for a range of scenarios. Preferably on the lighter end with rules, because I want to be able to run it at a moments notice. Anyone have suggestions?
The Void:
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/117563/The-Void-Core-PDF
Comes with quickstart creation rules with quickbuild pregens and templates with a small selection of NPCs, creatures and gear you'll need. Very flexible system, very much hard sci-fi (even goes into detail about pseudo-gravity generated in stations and on ships, also the "modular" nature of them) with mysterious cthonian/xenos beings and some occultist magic for flavor which can easily be stripped out. Uses d6 almost exclusively so also very good for introducing newbies to RPGs. Very good system overall and quite lethal too.