What is the best superhero RPG that is a bit darker and edgier than usual? I am currently looking into Wild Talents/Godlike and Necessary Evil. Can you tell me anything about those games or do you have any other suggestions?
*I know this is a little bit of a buckshot approach, but I learn from every topic I make on this forum, so I keep doing it.
I really, really like the basic premise behind Necessary Evil (and I'm also surprisingly fond of the workmanlike SW super powers system), but Godlike is a bit grittier than I like my superhero games to be.
And I want to like Wild Talents but I don't really see it working for four-color supers, which is what I'd like to play when I actually get a supers RPG campaign going; I think it'd work great for something like Aberrant, though (that had some great setting ideas but not the best system IMHO).
You might look at the newer games. Extreme Earth sounds like it would be cool. There was also "Dark Champions" which was a VERY good sourcebook, IIRC. So too was 'San Angelo: City of Heroes" (the latter wasn't "dark" just more modern/inspired. )
My favourite would be Double Cross. Dark conspiracy setting where superpowers corrupt those who use them, turning them into the very monsters that they have to use their powers to fight.
Quote from: Skywalker;735449My favourite would be Double Cross. Dark conspiracy setting where superpowers corrupt those who use them, turning them into the very monsters that they have to use their powers to fight.
That's a Japanese RPG, right? Is there an English translation?
Quote from: The Butcher;735460That's a Japanese RPG, right? Is there an English translation?
The core rules and companion have been translated so far. It's on Amazon, and IPR and the company that released it have a combo deal for it (Amazon does not).
I loved Dark Champions back in the day. There's an adventure for BASH that is set in a Watchmen-like setting where no one has actual super powers. It's pretty good (it's called Five Minutes To Midnight). There's also G-Core Grit, which is a supplement for the G-Core system.
I thought the setting for Brave New World had promise, but most people hated the system (I didn't mind it myself). AMP: Year One from Third Eye Games just kickstarted, and looks to be in this vein a bit.
I've been contemplating revising a group inspired by the Suicide Squad for various systems; it was more an organization than Task Force X was, as the supers did have some back up troops when needed.
I really like the setting for Godlike, which could be played fairly dark depending on the campaign. But I really hate the system.
Quote from: urbwar;735465The core rules and companion have been translated so far. It's on Amazon, and IPR and the company that released it have a combo deal for it (Amazon does not).
Yep. Next supplement is due around the middle of the year. There is no PDF due to licensing restrictions.
I recently picked up a copy of Mayfair's 'Underground'... which looks like darkly humorous fun. Dunno when I'll have a chance to play it though.
I'm surprised folks don't care for Godlike's system. I thought the ORE was sposed to be the bees knees?
I would not say Necessary Evil was inherently dark. I can be played that way quite easily, but the underlining assumption is that of bad guys acting heroically. More to the point there aren't many parts of the plot point campaign that traditional heroes would find objectionable; I've seen players in traditional superhero games suggest a lot worse (especially where interrogation is involved).
I really love Necessary Evil, but I'm unsure if Savage Worlds is the best system for supers, even though I like SW.
Quote from: Spinachcat;735475I really love Necessary Evil, but I'm unsure if Savage Worlds is the best system for supers, even though I like SW.
I ran Necessary using ICONS as system, but I that is more an reflection on how much I enjoy ICONS than a criticism of Savage Worlds.
I backed a kickstarter for Cold Steel Wardens which is a grim, gritty 'iron age' supers games but have no idea what it was like (I can't even figure out where the pdf was downloaded to, or how to get another copy).
There was another grim/grimy supers game something about Blues where the players were super cops or something. Will have a look on RPGNow to see if I can point in the right direction, rather than vague hand waving.
Managed to download (in the process of, anyway) the CSW pdf. Assuming my dogshit dongle don't crap itself again.
Here's the game blurb:
"What is Cold Steel Wardens?
Cold Steel Wardens: Roleplaying in the Iron Age of Comics is a table-top roleplaying game designed to emulate the Iron Age of Comics, made famous by works such as Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns, Rise of the Midnight Sons, X-Men: Age of Apocalypse, Daredevil: Born Again, and The Question.
The Iron Age of Comics (aka the Copper, Dark, or Modern Age) refers to a a period of comics writing between the early 1980s and late 1990s, which typically featured low-powered, street-level heroes investigating realistic threats such as drug traffickers or mafioso in addition to the more 'standard' supervillains. Iron Age comics also focused on moral and social issues such as violence, vigilantism, and social justice, as well as Eastern mysticism and philosophy.
Players take on the roles of masked heroes in Greensburg, a city known for its overwhelming corruption and heinous crimes. Our urban warriors use skills, gadgets, and metahuman powers to take their fight for justice to the crooks, Mafioso, and worse that inhabit their city.
The heroes' investigations take place under the watchful eye of the Warden, a separate player who narrates the action, sets up investigations for the heroes, and controls the NPCs of the world. The Warden pushes the heroes to face down their own flaws, as well as challenges them with difficult ethical and moral choices—how far will a hero go in the name of justice?"
With only 97 backers this was barely funded so won't be seen on many shelves.
Quote from: APN;735494I backed a kickstarter for Cold Steel Wardens which is a grim, gritty 'iron age' supers games but have no idea what it was like (I can't even figure out where the pdf was downloaded to, or how to get another copy).
There was another grim/grimy supers game something about Blues where the players were super cops or something. Will have a look on RPGNow to see if I can point in the right direction, rather than vague hand waving.
Mutant City Blues perhaps?
Quote from: Soylent Green;735496Mutant City Blues perhaps?
Yeah, I think that's the one he means. It runs on GUMSHOE, right? I've never looked into it, but GUMSHOE doesn't sound like a good fit for supers at all. Does it actually work?
I briefly thought of picking up Godlike, but the books look terrible and I don't find the ORE system all that appealing either.
Quote from: Skywalker;735449My favourite would be Double Cross. Dark conspiracy setting where superpowers corrupt those who use them, turning them into the very monsters that they have to use their powers to fight.
I was coming in here to suggest this very thing. Unlike most Superhero games, the game has a very specific setting and goals in mind. As well, the game has specific power sets in mind being exception-based design instead of effects-based design, which means the character you have in your head may not match up with the character you make.
Quote from: APN;735494I backed a kickstarter for Cold Steel Wardens which is a grim, gritty 'iron age' supers games but have no idea what it was like (I can't even figure out where the pdf was downloaded to, or how to get another copy).
There was another grim/grimy supers game something about Blues where the players were super cops or something. Will have a look on RPGNow to see if I can point in the right direction, rather than vague hand waving.
The PDF for
Cold Steel Wardens is still available for backer download via the update links.
While
CSW has been delayed significantly--primarily due to issues with our publisher, as the PDF's been done since November--it should hit print this summer, in time for the big conventions.
Quote from: Crabbyapples;735501As well, the game has specific power sets in mind being exception-based design instead of effects-based design, which means the character you have in your head may not match up with the character you make.
Yep. I personally prefer exception based design, so this can be a feature or bug.
Quote from: 3rik;735500Yeah, I think that's the one he means. It runs on GUMSHOE, right? I've never looked into it, but GUMSHOE doesn't sound like a good fit for supers at all. Does it actually work?
I briefly thought of picking up Godlike, but the books look terrible and I don't find the ORE system all that appealing either.
The new cover is a lot better.
It's been my experience that all superhero RPGs are dark superhero RPGs. Gamers are a sociopathic, cowardly lot.
Quote from: daniel_ream;735535It's been my experience that all superhero RPGs are dark superhero RPGs. Gamers are a sociopathic, cowardly lot.
Try to game with groups outside of prison.
Mayfair's UNDERGROUND is an unsung masterpiece, although it's more of a politically-charged dystopian future Marshal Law/Give Me Liberty/Judge Dredd sort of take on the genre. The system is often eccentric but it works. The artwork, layout, and "Style" of the game is fucking world-class.
I found GODLIKE's background to be awesome but it's system was just trying way, way too hard to re-invent the wheel and it really left me cold.
Quote from: daniel_ream;735535It's been my experience that all superhero RPGs are dark superhero RPGs. Gamers are a sociopathic, cowardly lot.
That's a bit harsh. Yes, I have met players who don't get the genre and want to bring their murder-hoboness to a the superhero genre, but that's more the exception than the rule, at least round here.
Quote from: Soylent Green;735544That's a bit harsh. Yes, I have met players who don't get the genre and want to bring their murder-hoboness to a the superhero genre, but that's more the exception than the rule, at least round here.
Indeed. My players "get it" (most of them.) Heck, I get it, I love supers, and was just lamenting on facebook I want to play a superhero game.
Anyway, as too Double Cross--I hadn't thought of it, but it fits; definitely a good choice, not overtly darker per se, more of "espionage by way of anime, with powers"
I'm a huge fan of Underground as well. Although, it to me was rather (potentially) hopeful--because the crazy supers, had been driven to see things in black and white--and despite breaking when the real world didn't allow that; they're TRYING to make a real difference to the world.
As for ORE? Won't touch it with a ten foot pole; the mechanics just don't work as described.
Quote from: Silverlion;735547As for ORE? Won't touch it with a ten foot pole; the mechanics just don't work as described.
I've never tried the ORE but it seemed interesting on paper... and I like some of the settings it's been used for. How 'broken' is it? Or is it more of a 'matter of taste' dislike?
Underground is based on the DC Heroes system, yes? Folks generally seem approving of that. I wonder why Underground never made a bigger splash...
Heroes Unlimited does the nineties pouches and guns pretty well. Super powers aren't much better than guns until high levels.
GURPS tends to produce gritty superhero games where a super can tear people to bits. Yes you can use optional rules and various advantages to mitigate this but in the end GURPS is a gritty game and it generally results in gritty superheroes.
I mean a bit more realistic. A gritty superhero RPG. Dark in mood and easy to die. Not really the four color golden or silver age stuff with high power levels. I like low powered games, because it increases the amount of roleplaying imo. Players can't Swiss Army Knife their way through every situation like they are D&D characters. They have to be careful.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735555I like low powered games, because it increases the amount of roleplaying imo.
That was a big part of what I enjoyed about the City Of Heroes MMO... things never got near the Superman/Green Lantern levels of power. Really, it was very 'pulp'... most of the bad guys were cultists and fascists and weird monsters... renegade robots. Few if any global threats.
So maybe ignoring the system's ability to run 'cosmic' supers makes Savage Worlds a more viable choice. Though my experience of it was pretty low on death & consequences... that might have been the GM.
Mutants and Masterminds with the noir book, is pretty grim and gritty.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735555I mean a bit more realistic. A gritty superhero RPG. Dark in mood and easy to die. Not really the four color golden or silver age stuff with high power levels. I like low powered games, because it increases the amount of roleplaying imo. Players can't Swiss Army Knife their way through every situation like they are D&D characters. They have to be careful.
You're very much talking about
Cold Steel Wardens. A lucky gunshot can take out a would-be hero and mooks gain substantial bonuses when they gang up on a single target in combat, making them lethal even for experienced vigilantes
Powers are available, but expensive to buy in character creation, limiting your available skills. Plus, the game is built with an economy centered around confronting a hero's moral stances and beliefs.
Quote from: daniel_ream;735535It's been my experience that all superhero RPGs are dark superhero RPGs. Gamers are a sociopathic, cowardly lot.
I've had my share of bad experiences with supers as well, with players going apeshit and causing a lot of collateral damage. Never as a GM, but as a player I've witnessed the problem.
Now, if/when I GM a supers game, the solution I have in mind is the same I feel would apply to any other game in which players run amok: if you're one of the few armed, armored and spellcasting people in the fantasy world of Heartbreakia, the frequent and exaggerated use of armed violence and destructive magic is very likely to attract the attention of the lords of the land, many of whom may be experienced warriors or sorcerers themselves.
Superheroes from neighboring cities or even the less sociopathic, more honor-bound supervillains may take exception to superpowered PCs who show little regard to human life. Besides, it's not unlikely that police and even armed forces have special units trained and equiped to take down rogue supers.
Quote from: Simlasa;735550I've never tried the ORE but it seemed interesting on paper... and I like some of the settings it's been used for. How 'broken' is it? Or is it more of a 'matter of taste' dislike?
Underground is based on the DC Heroes system, yes? Folks generally seem approving of that. I wonder why Underground never made a bigger splash...
ORE:
It sounds great on paper. I was an early adopter of Godlike. After trying two games of it, and later trying the 'sequel' Wild Talents, discovered that really it is the system. If your stat+skill are "average" expect a huge amount of whiffing. Your average soldier in Godlike couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. It simply was WAY too random. If you optune your character to make that not a problem, very little/no failures will occur.
Our experience was mostly the former. William Stoddard on the old Pyramid board broke it out in a more elegant description of the problems. They say 4 dice gives you a 50/50 chance of success. Actually speaking, sure, if I rolled ten thousand dice, it even out. But on the rolling of a few dice required in a game session, it doesn't. (See its a problem with the dice sides vs number of dice issues. You see in a ROLL and match system, the first die's result has no real impact on the second/third etc die.) You actually need 9-10 dice to guarantee one match. And guess what? Like WOD, one match isn't always enough. (Due to dice gobbling/blah blah mechanics)
Sure allegedly it needs "one match" but in play according to how its written it doesn't work out that matches will come up. I've argued about it and past been told its "bad math" on my part, when I've had three game session, lasing 4-5 hours each, and saw it happen to 3 out of 4 players fail repeatedly at (commonly asked for) tasks such as combat in a WWII game.
I'd hoped they'd fix it in each "new" iteration; but experience and long gaming, and well, ACTUALLY rolling hundreds upon hundreds of dice the last time I argued with the fans/creators--and when I cared enough to test the hypothesis ended up showing me that it wasn't bad math on /MY/ part.
The problem with the math is "statistically" speaking assumes an average result over too many uses to really impact a game even over most campaigns.
Eventually they came out and said you should only ROLL when its "important" never mind the fact that's true of most RPG's, but they basically stressed just letting people succeed at most tasks, only rolling occasionally. So basically, "don't use the mechanics we wrote, as anything but a way to frame the character sheet" is my gist of reading the later books. Which only makes me go, huh? Then why bother with your games at all?
As for Underground, I think the subgenre and certain elements weren't to some peoples tastes--I know it wasn't entirely to mine (Cannibal restaurants) , and I generally like cyberpunk. The system is a very stripped down/altered version of Mayfair/DC's system. I thought it worked well myself, and have had great fun with it--the real problems come from the fact that A) Its somewhat dark and lethal combined with B) Chargen is a bigger chore than DC heroes making the design of a character a sort of semi-rp thing; building a character from the POV of the surgeons/psychologists who help create and stabilize the super vet.
Mentioned elsewhere (retro clone thread) but low powered supers is Golden Heroes/Squadron UK (old version)/Codename Spandex area of expertise. Not so much street level as sewer level, the scales are so low.
I had to houserule the game extensively when the players were temporarily granted cosmic level powers to defeat a universe spanning threat. After a while of running with those (and ending World War II prematurely - yes, we had time travel, magic, zombies, Nazis, aliens, cosmic entities and demonic invasions, it was quite a cocktail. Oh, and dinosaurs) switching back to the GH power levels felt something of a comedown.
From line of sight range to 20m, punch through a battleship to pinging off a tank, fly round the world in seconds to flying slower than a car. More floating gently in one direction really at Flight level 1 :S Super speed grade 1 is about Usain Bolt speed in GH.
We switched to the DC Heroes/Megs game, which while furry/blurred at lower end covers high level supers just fine.
Quote from: Simlasa;735550I've never tried the ORE but it seemed interesting on paper... and I like some of the settings it's been used for. How 'broken' is it? Or is it more of a 'matter of taste' dislike?
Underground is based on the DC Heroes system, yes? Folks generally seem approving of that. I wonder why Underground never made a bigger splash...
It was a table-based system whose last edition was released right around the time when tables were suddenly out of fashion. It's denigration mostly springs from that.
If you lack 90s prejudices towards game mechanics it's quite good, and with the right genre dials in place, can actually be very gritty, or at least very fuckin' dangerous.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735530The new cover is a lot better.
I was talking about the interior. I just don't like the look of the books.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735555I mean a bit more realistic. A gritty superhero RPG. Dark in mood and easy to die. Not really the four color golden or silver age stuff with high power levels. I like low powered games, because it increases the amount of roleplaying imo. Players can't Swiss Army Knife their way through every situation like they are D&D characters. They have to be careful.
Have you looked at Two-Fisted Tales? It's strictly speaking not a supers game but you can use it for a game of pulp "proto-supers" out of the box.
Quote from: APKlosky;735573You're very much talking about Cold Steel Wardens. A lucky gunshot can take out a would-be hero and mooks gain substantial bonuses when they gang up on a single target in combat, making them lethal even for experienced vigilantes
Powers are available, but expensive to buy in character creation, limiting your available skills. Plus, the game is built with an economy centered around confronting a hero's moral stances and beliefs.
Ok, I check it when it's out on RPGnow. There a lot of different games being recommend in this thread. It's hard to check them all. I think I might be referring to one of the newer ages of comics. I think I mean the dark age, iron age or modern age. I have to check it and do some research. I think I mean the Dark Age. A bit noirish. To me that's the way to go. You know: The Dark Knight, Watchmen, Sin City etc.
Quote from: Soylent Green;735544That's a bit harsh. Yes, I have met players who don't get the genre and want to bring their murder-hoboness to a the superhero genre, but that's more the exception than the rule, at least round here.
I have run countless supers games, and have never encountered this. The worst I have seen is perhaps mismatched expectations back in the 80's when one guy wanted to play something like the punisher and another wanted to play 1966 TV Batman.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735555I mean a bit more realistic. A gritty superhero RPG. Dark in mood and easy to die. Not really the four color golden or silver age stuff with high power levels. I like low powered games, because it increases the amount of roleplaying imo. Players can't Swiss Army Knife their way through every situation like they are D&D characters. They have to be careful.
I am fine with low powered games, but you can do grim and gritty at the cosmic level too* and Batman, with no powers at all, exemplifies the swiss army superhero, imo.
*Morrisons JLA "Rock of Ages" for example, or even Kirby's New Gods, which gets fairly gritty in places, especially any of the Mister Miracle stories set on Apokolypse or at its close (Hunger Dogs).
Quote from: Gib;735691I am fine with low powered games, but you can do grim and gritty at the cosmic level too* and Batman, with no powers at all, exemplifies the swiss army superhero, imo.
What I mean with Swiss army superhero is high powered characters who have an answer on anything thrown at them by the GM. In the end they are so powerful that nothing is a threat to them anymore.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735699What I mean with Swiss army superhero is high powered characters who have an answer on anything thrown at them by the GM. In the end they are so powerful that nothing is a threat to them anymore.
I have never seen this past middle school, and have a hard time conceiving how such a thing would come to pass, given the way most supers games handle character gen and advancement. Sounds like a gm/player issue to me, not a setting or power level issue. I only say so because if you can't make it work regardless of power-level, you are going to have problems regardless of setting/power-level.
Now, if low power is simply your preference that's cool, but I do not agree that power level and role playing are inherently linked variables, really.
Quote from: Gib;735710I have never seen this past middle school, and have a hard time conceiving how such a thing would come to pass, given the way most supers games handle character gen and advancement. Sounds like a gm/player issue to me, not a setting or power level issue. I only say so because if you can't make it work regardless of power-level, you are going to have problems regardless of setting/power-level.
Now, if low power is simply your preference that's cool, but I do not agree that power level and role playing are inherently linked variables, really.
I have a friend who has this problem in D&D. Too powerful characters. When we started playing WoD, he commented that he likes the low powered nature of the game. You can die (it often takes two swings) and you are vulnerable to certain attacks, no matter how powerful you become. You can become Rambo the vampire, but you can still be dominated by a run of the mill Ventrue. You have to be careful all the time, which makes for great gaming imo.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735687Ok, I check it when it's out on RPGnow. There a lot of different games being recommend in this thread. It's hard to check them all. I think I might be referring to one of the newer ages of comics. I think I mean the dark age, iron age or modern age. I have to check it and do some research. I think I mean the Dark Age. A bit noirish. To me that's the way to go. You know: The Dark Knight, Watchmen, Sin City etc.
Much obliged. Hopefully it'll be up for sale this month--I'm literally just waiting for my publisher (Chronicle City) to get it up on the website.
In CSW, the Iron Age and Dark Age are used as synonyms. I prefer the Iron Age as a term, as it maintains the pattern established by Golden/Silver/Bronze Ages. All of the comics you mention are absolutely direct (and heavy) influences on CSW. They're tops in my "Iron Age Recommended Reading List" at the back of the book.
AP, sure you already know this but the key to (relative) success is support. Adventures, sourcebooks and so on. And get on websites to promote, word of mouth etc. Examples of play, get some play by post going and so on.
Sorry if it seems like hard work but there's a reason games like Icons have done (again, relatively) well vs some of the smaller supers games (now too many to list) and its that presentation, quality, and prolific output are higher than other games.
I wish you luck. At some point (with my current schedule, the eleventeenth of never) I want to try these games I keep backing and give an opinion/review.
You could send a review copy to rpgsite and the pulsing purple as well. More word is good, and from what I saw at a glance, it's likely to be positive.
Quote from: APN;735795AP, sure you already know this but the key to (relative) success is support. Adventures, sourcebooks and so on. And get on websites to promote, word of mouth etc. Examples of play, get some play by post going and so on.
Sorry if it seems like hard work but there's a reason games like Icons have done (again, relatively) well vs some of the smaller supers games (now too many to list) and its that presentation, quality, and prolific output are higher than other games.
I wish you luck. At some point (with my current schedule, the eleventeenth of never) I want to try these games I keep backing and give an opinion/review.
You could send a review copy to rpgsite and the pulsing purple as well. More word is good, and from what I saw at a glance, it's likely to be positive.
What are the big dogs of superhero gaming then? I mean the well supported lines? Should I still check out M&M Noir?
Just checked out Necessary Evil and this game is indeed meant for being low or medium powered and not really as high powered as the Avengers, Fantastic Four or Superman. The plot hook at the start about the alien invasion gives the setting an interesting twist.
Quote from: daniel_ream;735535It's been my experience that all superhero RPGs are dark superhero RPGs. Gamers are a sociopathic, cowardly lot.
You've got a bad group, or are playing with a bad system. My "Golden Age" campaign (ICONS) is definitely not "dark", in spite of dealing with some serious themes.
Quote from: APKlosky;735744Much obliged. Hopefully it'll be up for sale this month--I'm literally just waiting for my publisher (Chronicle City) to get it up on the website.
How's the print version coming along? I saw the pdf has gone out to KS backers.
I was thinking CSW might also cater to (not-quite-)borderline-superhero stuff like
Ghost Dog ("honorable" katana wielding gangsta assassin working for the mafia), the
Infamous and
Saints Row video games.
I backed the recent Extreme Earth KS. Should be interesting to see how they handle the darker, grittier side in games like ICONS and Supers!. They also will have versions for CSW and Champions later on as well.
I also backed Urban Heroes, which looks like it could be an Aberrant Heartbreaker
Quote from: APN;735795AP, sure you already know this but the key to (relative) success is support. Adventures, sourcebooks and so on. And get on websites to promote, word of mouth etc. Examples of play, get some play by post going and so on.
Sorry if it seems like hard work but there's a reason games like Icons have done (again, relatively) well vs some of the smaller supers games (now too many to list) and its that presentation, quality, and prolific output are higher than other games.
I wish you luck. At some point (with my current schedule, the eleventeenth of never) I want to try these games I keep backing and give an opinion/review.
You could send a review copy to rpgsite and the pulsing purple as well. More word is good, and from what I saw at a glance, it's likely to be positive.
I already have plans to release my convention adventures as promo items, and a follow-up CSW book is already in the drafting stages.
However, the continual delays in getting CSW out have been beyond frustrating. I can't even get a reply at this point from my publisher and that's the height of unprofessionalism.
Quote from: APKlosky;756882I already have plans to release my convention adventures as promo items, and a follow-up CSW book is already in the drafting stages.
All of which I'm really looking forward to!
Quote from: APKlosky;756882However, the continual delays in getting CSW out have been beyond frustrating. I can't even get a reply at this point from my publisher and that's the height of unprofessionalism.
You're not the only game designer having that problem either. Their FB and G+ community have many comments from others about lack of communication. I'm starting to think they're becoming worse than C7. I posted a query about CSW on their FB page, and got no response (not that I expected one). It's even more annoying when they start talking about another game (like a new edition of Dark Harvest) when CSW (and another supers game, Invulnerable) are still waiting to be released in print
It appears that the squeaky wheel gets oiled, just in time for Origins (where I'm running nearly 50 hours of demos/game sessions)...
CSW is now on sale! (http://shop.chroniclecity.co.uk/epages/es146440.sf/secc768609c27/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es146440/Categories/Cold_Steel_Wardens&Currency=USD)
Quote from: APKlosky;757141It appears that the squeaky wheel gets oiled, just in time for Origins (where I'm running nearly 50 hours of demos/game sessions)...
CSW is now on sale! (http://shop.chroniclecity.co.uk/epages/es146440.sf/secc768609c27/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es146440/Categories/Cold_Steel_Wardens&Currency=USD)
I guess it's better than nothing, but what about OBS? Oh, and I posted the link to the Capes & Cowls community on G+ to help spread the word
Quote from: APKlosky;757141It appears that the squeaky wheel gets oiled, just in time for Origins (where I'm running nearly 50 hours of demos/game sessions)...
CSW is now on sale! (http://shop.chroniclecity.co.uk/epages/es146440.sf/secc768609c27/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es146440/Categories/Cold_Steel_Wardens&Currency=USD)
Congratulations! Now let's hope the print version isn't too far behind.
Quote from: urbwar;757206I guess it's better than nothing, but what about OBS?
What's OBS?
Quote from: 3rik;757506What's OBS?
The company that runs Drivethru, RPGNow, etc.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735837What are the big dogs of superhero gaming then? I mean the well supported lines? Should I still check out M&M Noir?
...
M&M Noir was developed for the 2e version of M&M and I don't think it's ever been updated for the current 3e.
It's a pretty good sourcebook for Noir themes and the "setting" examples aren't bad, but I'm not sure about the implementation. It's mostly a list of powers and abilities your players shouldn't have - which turns out to be a pretty darned long list. And that grates on some people, because almost every NPC writeup ignores one or more of those restrictions.
It left me wondering, at the end of the day, why I was even thinking about running the noir theme with a superhero system. Sure, it could be done, but a "high level" pulp system seems like it would probably be simpler and more fitting.
Edit: I should mention that even though M&M 2e is out of production, there were many sourcebooks and supplements published for it, and the Atomic Think Tank has archived a huge number of write-ups, rules options, and rules questions & answers for the system. And I assume that most of the products would be available on discount through places like Amazon (though some of them, like the Iron Age Sourcebook, have actually increased in price). So in terms of the "support" issue, that shouldn't be a problem.
Quote from: Saplatt;759114It left me wondering, at the end of the day, why I was even thinking about running the noir theme with a superhero system. Sure, it could be done, but a "high level" pulp system seems like it would probably be simpler and more fitting.
When/If I get around to starting up a new heroes game I think I'll just go with BRP with bits of Superworld and its companion. I really want a 40s/50s era spy-smasher type setup with very low-level powers. Ideally, I like the idea of average guys with homemade costumes operating out of their basements and garages... driving souped up family cars... and facing down the Communists that hold secret midnight meetings at the local diner.
Not that I have a prayer of selling that idea to any players...
I'll toss a vote in for White Wolf's Aberrant game.
Very dark setting, like mixing DC with X-files levels of conspiracy plots and a very "what if normal people were given superpowers?" long before Heroes and much more extensively.
Was Brave New World any good? It was one of those games I believe with a back story that expanded with each book you bought, so was cut short when the game was cancelled. From a brief glimpse I think it was 'street level' or similar to say, the Heroes TV show in that the characters had few powers, and a bullet could end it all.
Quote from: APN;760915Was Brave New World any good? It was one of those games I believe with a back story that expanded with each book you bought, so was cut short when the game was cancelled. From a brief glimpse I think it was 'street level' or similar to say, the Heroes TV show in that the characters had few powers, and a bullet could end it all.
Not really. They designed the books to milk you for cash; wide margins, largish font. Power packages split up between books published at the same time. Serious system flaws, and it withheld important information about the metaplot that GM's needed to know. In short a sad trainwreck. I picked up Aberrant with my refund, which I found far better game wise even if direct opposites on the power scale.
I think Brave New World could have been good. I really enjoyed playing a demo one year at Origins. But as Silverlion pointed out, it was designed to cash in on the WoD style meta-plot/power creep publishing mode, which was one thing that killed it. Not having rules for higher powered heroes was another (they were promised but never materialized as the game was cancelled before they were written/released).
The game honestly could have been better served by being cut back to 2-3 books with a better layout. Of course, I got my books cheap on ebay, so I got them for the cost of about 3 of the books or less when they were at regular price.
Quote from: APN;760915Was Brave New World any good? It was one of those games I believe with a back story that expanded with each book you bought, so was cut short when the game was cancelled. From a brief glimpse I think it was 'street level' or similar to say, the Heroes TV show in that the characters had few powers, and a bullet could end it all.
It was the MOST horrific example of Metaplot abuse ever. They hid half of the GM information from GMs, explaining that you'd need to buy several further books in order to know what the whole big secret real story is.
Quote from: Omega;760417I'll toss a vote in for White Wolf's Aberrant game.
Very dark setting, like mixing DC with X-files levels of conspiracy plots and a very "what if normal people were given superpowers?" long before Heroes and much more extensively.
Admittedly it was probably the only "dark/gritty" supers RPG setting I had any experience with, but it was fun. The system didn't really scale well but I enjoyed the setting.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;735724I have a friend who has this problem in D&D. Too powerful characters. When we started playing WoD, he commented that he likes the low powered nature of the game. You can die (it often takes two swings) and you are vulnerable to certain attacks, no matter how powerful you become. You can become Rambo the vampire, but you can still be dominated by a run of the mill Ventrue. You have to be careful all the time, which makes for great gaming imo.
Sorry I missed this, but the whole argument falls apart at "you can die,"
Potential lethality should be a function of the setting and not the power level of the PCs. If as a referee you can't make things dangerous for Superman, you are simply put, doing it wrong.
Quote from: Gib;762308Sorry I missed this, but the whole argument falls apart at "you can die,"
Potential lethality should be a function of the setting and not the power level of the PCs. If as a referee you can't make things dangerous for Superman, you are simply put, doing it wrong.
Yes, in principle. But I'm not sure that's what he was saying there. I think he was saying "you can be taken down very easily and in a myriad of ways" which to me doesn't mean the alternative is "you never die".