How did 2013 differ from 2020 ruleswise?  I think I originally had 2013, but I can't remember what the differences were anymore.

Cybergeneration is a completely other beast than CP2020. I deem it interesting and would like to run it some day (although I have no player who's interested into it), but its setting is completely different from what you would expect in a Gibson or Sterling novel.
The biggest down-fall for me is that there WW-Storytelling crept into it, including the introduction of cooler-than-thou NPCs with massive backstory that has fuck-all to do with the PCs, dismissal of "old-fashioned" mechanics like most of the random tables (including random encounters and the lifepath, unless you play a edgerunner) or the randomly generated stats in favour of pure point-buy, and regular imperative to "ROLE-play, not ROLL-play".

The major beef I'd have with it, if I had a chance to GM it, is the fact that the whole revolution is one big overland-stall. So, there is this and that happening to overthrow the fascistic government, but... How do the actions of the PC further things? When do they reach their goal? Can the actions of the PCs anyway be decisive if they are just some minor cog wheels in some minor local cell in some minor US state, while the cool designer PC dudes such as Morgan Blackhand or Johnny Silverhand get the whole spotlight?
You either have to come up with your own roadmap for the revolution, to accept the fact that the PCs are just insignificant schmoes in the big picture, or you have to completely ignore or shove into the background the whole revolution thing.

Quote from: noisms;221997Oh, Cyberpunk 2020 was a lot of fun. But I think most of the fun was in spite of the system rather than because of it, and that gets old after a while.

I actually had loads of fun with the system. I especially enjoyed the lifepath, the random encounter table with its clear situations and tie-ins to the setting (instant sub-plot and adventure creator!) and the facedown rules (how many games are there that allow a clear-cut way to decide fights before they start at all?).
If there are two big downfalls, it's the book-keeping for Netrunning (which I usually just ignore in favour of a flat charge each month), and the practically non-existing rules for chases.

I'm always perplexed by people who claim that Shadowrun isn't cyberpunk.

Quote from: Balbinus;222032How did 2013 differ from 2020 ruleswise?  I think I originally had 2013, but I can't remember what the differences were anymore.

Off the top of my head the core rule set was pretty much the same. Big changes I remember were

• Combat Sense was massively cut back and only added to initiative
• The 2013 lifepath went which was a shame as it produced some very 80's cyberpunk stuff. Instead your roles gave you most of your skills
• I think the combat was more streamlined with better rules on stacking armour etc

Other than that you had bigger lists of stuff and more history and changes to modifiers.

Quote from: NiallS;222057Off the top of my head the core rule set was pretty much the same. Big changes I remember were

• Combat Sense was massively cut back and only added to initiative
• The 2013 lifepath went which was a shame as it produced some very 80's cyberpunk stuff. Instead your roles gave you most of your skills
• I think the combat was more streamlined with better rules on stacking armour etc

Other than that you had bigger lists of stuff and more history and changes to modifiers.

Thanks.

There was a different lifepath in 2013? How was it different from the 2020 version? Any example of the "very 80s CP stuff" that got removed?

In that case, I might need to add another entry to my already damn long "OOP books to be hunted after" list...

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!;221972I'm on the record as not having a clue what the best cyberpunk game is even for me

Mmm Cyberspace. I was into MERP at the time and Cyberspace hit a sweet spot. The tech's a bit more what would likely be termed Post-Cyberpunk now (IIRC lasers, increased use of flying cars, a fair bit of arcologies and space exploration etc.) but the setting's still good IMO.

In hindsight I'd like to get ahold of the original Cyberpunk little boxed set again, if just to see if it's actually as good as I remember it or as frustrating as CT is to me.

ICE's game was excellent, unfortunately it came out just as me and my friends were getting tired of Rolemaster and Spacemaster which we'd played the bejeezus out of, so we never did much with it.

Quote from: Skyrock;222038I actually had loads of fun with the system. I especially enjoyed the lifepath, the random encounter table with its clear situations and tie-ins to the setting (instant sub-plot and adventure creator!) and the facedown rules (how many games are there that allow a clear-cut way to decide fights before they start at all?).
If there are two big downfalls, it's the book-keeping for Netrunning (which I usually just ignore in favour of a flat charge each month), and the practically non-existing rules for chases.

The lifepath was great, yeah - and I loved the way you could randomise your appearance, personality and even ethnicity.

Netrunning was a huge pain in the arse to run: "Everybody go and make popcorn while the Referee and Netrunner sit around rolling lots of dice." We had to have a gentleman's agreement about that too; nobody was allowed to play Netrunners - they just had to hire them and the Referee would decide how competent/trustworthy they were and quickly work out their successes or failures.

The biggest problem was definitely the min-maxing, though. It had the biggest potential for that out of all of the games I think I've played. Especially as the people with the highest Career Skill ended up with the most cash by default too.

Another pet hate was the fact that only solos could have Combat Sense. I could never understand that: why would a greenhorn idiot solo be naturally faster than a veteran beat cop 25 years on the job, or a nomad who's been hunting with a rifle since the age of like, 6?

That said, I speak as a fan! I've probably played more Cyberpunk 2020 than I have any other game except for D&D. It just has very annoying... idiosyncrasies.

I still love the Night City sourcebook though. I need to scan the maps and print 'em out to build one giant map of the place for my players to see on the wall behind me, complete with names of places added as they see them or visit them. I even used that book for Cyber Hero since it is pretty much system free.

With some simple house ruling, Cyberpunk 2020 is a playable game. Well, that and a net-running overhaul, which I started but never finished after playing Shadowrun 4th edition (and loving how Deckers could interact with the other PCs and partake in the adventure without slowing things down).

Shadowrun is definitely Cyberpunk. Just because it had fantasy races and magic doesn't mean it doesn't touch on every single Cyberpunk "-ism" out there.

-=Grim=-

Quote from: JongWK;222046I'm always perplexed by people who claim that Shadowrun isn't cyberpunk.

The argument is that the fantasy elements invalidate the overall cyberpunk feel.  It's not one I agree with personally, but I regret to inform that William Gibson does.

Quote from: Balbinus;222078ICE's game was excellent, unfortunately it came out just as me and my friends were getting tired of Rolemaster and Spacemaster which we'd played the bejeezus out of, so we never did much with it.

Cool, well Cyberspace is available on PDF (and somewhat in print) and now and then I find at least the core book used. I have the pdf and hope to pick up the printed book next time I find it.

Quote from: GrimJesta;222118I still love the Night City sourcebook though.

Having never had any Cyberpunk supplements aside from some of the magazines and one or two of the Solo books. Much later on the Pacific Rim book. So was very pleased to download the Night City PDF when it was free on DTRPG. Very very good sourcebook. Lots of flavor but not welded into the game. Had the side effect of helping make 3rd edition pale in comparison.

Quote from: pathar;222135The argument is that the fantasy elements invalidate the overall cyberpunk feel.  It's not one I agree with personally, but I regret to inform that William Gibson does.

Wow. William Gibson has a new book out that I haven't read.... Spook Country. Estimated time to acquisition, about two days.

Quote from: Casey777;222156Having never had any Cyberpunk supplements aside from some of the magazines and one or two of the Solo books. Much later on the Pacific Rim book. So was very pleased to download the Night City PDF when it was free on DTRPG. Very very good sourcebook. Lots of flavor but not welded into the game. Had the side effect of helping make 3rd edition pale in comparison.

The Chromebooks have a lot of interesting stuff in too. I think the 3rd or 4th has information about how to kevlar-ise ordinary fashion items, so that your corp manager guy can walk around in an armoured Armani suit and bullet-proof mirrorshades.