Quote from: Christopher Brady;905564The original system is pure "DM May I?" what's to improve on??  Just reprint the original books, make a mint.

A capital idea.

Brady is lying. The system is no more 'mother may I' than any other RPG.

And Lords of Olympus, even putting aside that it has a completely different setting, is not just a reprint of the Amber rules.  I don't know if I'd say it's an "improvement", but it clarifies and provides more concrete structure to explain how the rules work, to put the lie to the bullshit Amber-haters say about the system.

Quote from: RPGPundit;906107Brady is lying. The system is no more 'mother may I' than any other RPG.

And Lords of Olympus, even putting aside that it has a completely different setting, is not just a reprint of the Amber rules.  I don't know if I'd say it's an "improvement", but it clarifies and provides more concrete structure to explain how the rules work, to put the lie to the bullshit Amber-haters say about the system.

I've introduced a few Amber die-hards to LoO and they prefer LoO to the original. Just a better fit and more accessible underlying fiction/mythology. But that's not really on topic

Quote from: daniel_ream;905592LoGS

Damn awesome game. Too bad more people don't play it.

I miss BESM and I wish it would come back so bad

Quote from: RPGPundit;906107Brady is lying. The system is no more 'mother may I' than any other RPG.

Huhn?  There's no randomizer.  You either compare numbers and accept that you win or lose, or you apparently come up with something that GM decides (Mother May I?) is good enough to beat the target.  Every challenge is done in this manner.

In D&D, you often roll dice in place of asking.  In Palladium's various games, you roll dice instead of asking.  Even in most White Wolf games, you roll instead of asking.

Do you only play Amber or it's derivative 'Storygames'?

Quote from: RPGPundit;906107And Lords of Olympus, even putting aside that it has a completely different setting, is not just a reprint of the Amber rules.  I don't know if I'd say it's an "improvement", but it clarifies and provides more concrete structure to explain how the rules work, to put the lie to the bullshit Amber-haters say about the system.

If it clarifies, it's an improvement.  Not that hard a concept.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;906229Huhn?  There's no randomizer.  You either compare numbers and accept that you win or lose, or you apparently come up with something that GM decides (Mother May I?) is good enough to beat the target.  Every challenge is done in this manner.

uh... Thats not "Mother May I?" as its been described.
"Mother May I?" is when the DM says Yes or No with no arbitration or chance.
The DM assigning a difficulty to the task is not "Mother May I?"

The PC wants to jump across the ravine. "Mother May I?" is where the DM says "No" rather than say assigning a target number, percent chance, whatever. As applies to things that should have a chance of success no matter how small. Asking the DM. "Can I swim across the lava moat?" and being told. "No" is not "Mother May I?".

Monte Cook has a blog about it somewhere.

Back on topic.

What is the difference, or not, between BESM and the Tri-Stat system? I hear some people speak of the two as if they were the same thing sometimes.

Quote from: Omega;906232uh... Thats not "Mother May I?" as its been described.
"Mother May I?" is when the DM says Yes or No with no arbitration or chance.
The DM assigning a difficulty to the task is not "Mother May I?"

Exactly. This is how Amber does it.  The DM says yes or no.  The fact that a player can offer suggestions or sneaky ideas at how to overcome the obstacle means nothing, even the numbers given is pointless, it is all up to the DM.  They get to decide, and it's final.  End of Line.  No arbitration, no randomness.  Which is 'Mother May I?'

Thank you for proving my point.

Quote from: Omega;906232The PC wants to jump across the ravine. "Mother May I?" is where the DM says "No" rather than say assigning a target number, percent chance, whatever. As applies to things that should have a chance of success no matter how small. Asking the DM. "Can I swim across the lava moat?" and being told. "No" is not "Mother May I?".

Not sure what you're getting at here?  These examples are too vague to be useful in terms of (or more accurately, lack thereof) mechanical discussion.

Quote from: Omega;906232Monte Cook has a blog about it somewhere.

That's nice, but utterly irrelevant.

Quote from: Omega;906232Back on topic.

What is the difference, or not, between BESM and the Tri-Stat system? I hear some people speak of the two as if they were the same thing sometimes.

There isn't any except the themes used.  Those who prefer the term Tri-Stat or often somehow uncomfortable with that BESM means or what the game system is used for there.  Or so I've noted, anecdotally.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;906238Exactly. This is how Amber does it.  The DM says yes or no.  The fact that a player can offer suggestions or sneaky ideas at how to overcome the obstacle means nothing, even the numbers given is pointless, it is all up to the DM.  They get to decide, and it's final.  End of Line.  No arbitration, no randomness.  Which is 'Mother May I?'

Thank you for proving my point.

That was not how you described it above. You worded it as if the GM then came up with some sort of target one or the other had to beat. Not a flat Yes/No.

So I proved the point you didnt properly present. But thanks for clarifying what you meant.

But if "or you apparently come up with something that GM decides (Mother May I?) is good enough to beat the target." then that sounds more like the GM arbitrating rather than Yes/No-ing? I know nothing of Amber Diceless hence why I am asking for clarification.

Quote from: Omega;906244I know nothing of Amber Diceless

That's right, you don't.  You might want to catch up; those of us who do knew exactly what Brady meant.

I ran ADRPG for years and pretty much concur with Brady.  It's just Mother May I.

Quote from: Omega;906232What is the difference, or not, between BESM and the Tri-Stat system? I hear some people speak of the two as if they were the same thing sometimes.

Tri-Stat DX came out sometime in the 2nd edition BESM era, well before the end. It was the base system underlying BESM, but made more "generic" and less anime-based in presentation (and some of the naming schemes, I think). Essentially it was GoO's offering into the system arena. Calling BESM a Tri-Stat system would also be correct, even though it came first. Silver Age Sentinels, The Authority and few others RPGs that GoO produced were all Tri-Stat.

Quote from: Omega;906232What is the difference, or not, between BESM and the Tri-Stat system? I hear some people speak of the two as if they were the same thing sometimes.

They aren't quite the same thing.  The basic resolution mechanic is the same.  The main difference is the dice used.  BESM uses 2d6 for resolution.  Tri-stat dX allows for the use of two of any type of dice.  That's where the dX comes in.  Generally speaking, the bigger the dice, the greater the difference in power scale the system can accommodate.  The Silver Age Sentinels super heroes version uses d12s.

Quote from: daniel_ream;906249That's right, you don't.  You might want to catch up; those of us who do knew exactly what Brady meant.

I ran ADRPG for years and pretty much concur with Brady.  It's just Mother May I.

So... You dont know the answer either...

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up. :rolleyes:

I'll wait for Chris to explain what he meant as hes at least coherent and makes good points.

Regarding BESM in comparison to Tri-Stat dX.

BESM2e is to Tri-Stat dX as B/X Dungeons & Dragons is to Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2e.

BESM2e uses 2d6 roll under for resolution.  Tri-Stat dX uses 2 dice (d4, d6, d8, or d10 depending on power level of the game) roll under.  Both are point build systems.  The point costs are different for things, but are generally somewhat similar.  Tri-Stat dX adds a few extra complexity bits which affect character creation, but generally don't create much fundamental difference after character generation.  A BESM2e character is more or less compatible with a Tri Stat dX game run at the d6 scale, in much the same way as a B/X character would be functionally playable in a game run with AD&D 2e rules.

(sighs) I miss BESM. At least I still have my hard copy of BESM 1E I got from Amazon.