Quote from: LouGoncey;957284If you want characters created in 15 minutes, look elsewhere. Even in 3rd edition Champions...

It depends. It takes me 5-15 mins to create a Hero System character. But it can take others much longer in part due to the range of options being imposing, lack of familarit with the system and the desire to optimize more than I do.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;957173Right.  Must be nice.  Wish I could have one.  Then I could get this.

Fixed income sucks more than having a job since your income is totally outside your control. No working more hours, no overtime, many times no payday advance (ruinous as those can be) limited credit and often even the inability to look for another part time job to supplement your income. You can't even plan for a "raise" most of the time. And payday is one a month, period. its surprising what a difference that makes as much discretionary income and expense planning.  I've lived both ways and working is the better way to live, IMO.

Quote from: Nexus;957460Fixed income sucks more than having a job since your income is totally outside your control. No working more hours, no overtime, many times no payday advance (ruinous as those can be) limited credit and often even the inability to look for another part time job to supplement your income. You can't even plan for a "raise" most of the time. And payday is one a month, period. its surprising what a difference that makes as much discretionary income and expense planning.  I've lived both ways and working is the better way to live, IMO.

I wish I could work.  Being a cripple sucks.  Anyhoosit, it still doesn't stop me from pining for this collection of books I used to own.  Well, most of them, anyway.

Quote from: Nexus;957458It depends. It takes me 5-15 mins to create a Hero System character. But it can take others much longer in part due to the range of options being imposing, lack of (familarity) with the system and the desire to optimize more than I do.

Need to optimize is a big issue with a lot of games, for example Pathfinder.

jg

Quote from: jhkim;9572905th and 6th editions concentrated on closing loopholes in 4th edition, and the results were more long-winded and less guidelines.

And that was one of the big problems of those following editions. They focused too much on making official rulings. Instead of leaving that up to being part of the individual GM's role.

The system in the 4th Edition era was supposed to work the way the individual GM wanted it to. It left the burden of ruling on problems with the system up to the individual GM. The rulebook was never supposed to be treated as a law book that took that authority away from the individual GM.

In a 4th Edition game, decades ago, before the release of The Ultimate Martial Artist. I had a player that had seen on the internet about what became in later editions, Lightning Reflexes.

He wanted to divorce Initiative order from Dexterity with a kitbashed construct. And make a character I saw as something that brought too much extra complexity the process of running the game for my taste. A character that would take up many entries on the combat chart. Instead of the usual just one. Which would just add nothing but confusion to running the the game.

So I told the player in no uncertain terms: No. I wouldn't have it.

Bottom line: Nothing is supposed to overrule the GM. The contents of the rulebooks are merely suggestions. The GM is the one that makes the final rulings on how things work for their individual campaign. Not the rulebook.

And a GM certainly has the right to decide how complex they want the characters to be in their campaign. It's part of their role to set the boundries of what is acceptable in their individual campaign. And what is not.

Quote from: James Gillen;957566Need to optimize is a big issue with a lot of games, for example Pathfinder.

jg

System Mastery can make a difference in Hero System like most "crunchy" games. The combination of a abusive player and lenient/Inexperienced GM can really make things go sideways. Its fair to say its a pitfall of the system, the price it pays for its flexibility. You really need a firm hand at the reins. And some maturity (or at least some self control) from all participants doesn't hurt. But I'd say that about allot of games.

Quote from: RunningLaser;956693...

if you hear a loud noise, that's just Hyperman howling in complete victory over this:)

HM

Quote from: Nexus;957458It depends. It takes me 5-15 mins to create a Hero System character. But it can take others much longer in part due to the range of options being imposing, lack of familarit with the system and the desire to optimize more than I do.

It important to have a concept before going in and then it is a matter of finding the right combination of elements to make it happen.

Quote from: estar;957671It important to have a concept before going in and then it is a matter of finding the right combination of elements to make it happen.

Very true.

Quote from: Nexus;957593System Mastery can make a difference in Hero System like most "crunchy" games.

I wonder if that's a working definition of the difference between lite/light and crunchy systems?

Quote from: Tod13;957687I wonder if that's a working definition of the difference between lite/light and crunchy systems?

Depends on the system. The better crunchy ruleset are to written to reflect the reality of the genre and/or setting in detail. But even doing this doesn't make that ruleset magically resistant to a referee who blindly allows the rules as written. ANY RPG run solely via rules as written will stop making sense at some point either generating nonsense results or it feels deficient.

My approach as been if the rules cover what I am trying to do in a campaigns and make sense in the context of that campaign then I will stick with the rules as written. This very much true if I get the sense that the author(s) have thought through the implications of their mechanics. Which in my opinion hold true of Hero System and GURPS.

Quote from: RunningLaser;956693Here's the Hero System 4th edition Bundle of Holding.  It includes the Big Blue Book- yes, that one.   Holy sweet fucky indeed!

if you hear a loud noise, that's just Hyperman howling in complete victory over this:)

Slipped in at the last moment and picked this up!

Quote from: Nexus;959968Slipped in at the last moment and picked this up!

A friend of mine got the Dark Champions set for me!  I'sa a happy man!