Quote from: WilExalted isn't really like that - whoever said that got it very wrong. Exalted is about hitting someone so hard that their fourth-cousin's great-great-great-grandmother's best friend's dog feels it.

EDIT: That sounds to me like the reaction of someone who has been told all these years that powergaming and munchkin characters are bad, then they run into a game that they like (Exalted) that glorifies all of that so they have to work it into their worldview somehow.

Yeah, but THAT is what Exalted is for. Its for all the White-wolfers who were desperate to still seem like the cool l33t kids who aren't into "teh rollplaying" (ie. D&D), but were starting to realize that they really really wanted to powergame. But, you know, couldn't do so without losing their Groovy Card.

So Exalted became a powergame a thousand times more stupid and fucked up than anything D&D ever put out, but it was ok because White Wolf said "Its ART". Why is it art, and D&D is crap? Only because WW said so. But that's all they needed.

Its also no surprise that WW put out Exalted at a time when WW was starting to seriously bleed people from their WoD line, people who were starting to get fed up with having to play black-beret-wearing vampire pansies.  Exalted was their desperate last-ditch measure to keep those people, by giving them an option where they could still feel elitist but could satisfy their most base monty-haul powergaming rollplaying desires.

WW Swine are pretty fucking typical of any supposed elite.  Their condemnation of public pecadillos are meant to hide very huge private perversions.  Most WW gamers turned out to be WAY worse "rollplayers" than any D&D player I know. The worse D&D feat-fetishist looks utterly normal compared to the charmosexuals of Exalted.

QuoteEDIT EDIT (I'm cleaning and thinking at the same time): The funny thing is that all of the gonzo things that you see in other roleplaying games that are generally thought to be too over the top - flying bears shooting lasers from their eyes, handguns that blow up skyscrapers, y'know Rifts and Synnabar and whatever else - have a perfectly good home in Exalted. Somehow, Exalted makes it cooler.

No, it doesn't.  That's just a stupid bullshit claim by the clique over at RPG.net, backed up by the WW pseudointelligentsia.  In reality, Exalted is a pathetic fucking game that is unbelievably stupid mechanically, and has the hypocritical gall to be annoyingly pretentious about being "ART" while engaging in the kind of powergaming nonsense that, were it a D&D product, would have had the WW-ers demanding that it be burnt at the stake and thrown to the lions.

In other words, its really bad "Art Porn".

RPGPundit

Honestly, I don't give a shit about what Exalted is 'for', or why other people play it. Of course, I've also always thought the artificial break between D&D players and WW players was both artificial and dumb. I really don't know who these mysterious Vampire players are or where they hang out, but they're so far from me and the players I know as to seem fictional.

Which, aside from internet assholes (of which there are many), they might be.

I don't care if Exalted isn't inherantly better then other games on the market. I like the setting fairly well (I've made personal edits, though). I like the mechanics fairly well. I like the game a lot. My friends and I have always had a good time playing it. I play it for the same reason I play shitloads of D&D. Because I have fun. I didn't know there was another reason, but I don't care either.

Maybe I saw that art porn on TV and just viewed it like all the other porn, but with different trappings. Who cares why its on TV?

Exalted has a great setting and lots of features a lot of people find fun.

Is it original?  I neither know nor care, why does that matter if it's fun?

Quote from: BalbinusExalted has a great setting and lots of features a lot of people find fun.

Is it original?  I neither know nor care, why does that matter if it's fun?

Because a game can't be published without an agenda behind it, man.  Don't be silly.

Quote from: RedFoxBecause a game can't be published without an agenda behind it, man.  Don't be silly.

Very true that. Most of the time that agenda is to sell copies and make some money.

Quote from: One Horse TownVery true that. Most of the time that agenda is to sell copies and make some money.

It's all about hookers and blow.  And mad credz with the RPG publishing crowd.

QuoteSo Exalted became a powergame a thousand times more stupid and fucked up than anything D&D ever put out, but it was ok because White Wolf said "Its ART". Why is it art, and D&D is crap? Only because WW said so.

Personally, I think that is the feel to aim for - shameless pandering that still makes people feel clever.

Quote from: One Horse TownVery true that. Most of the time that agenda is to sell copies and make some money.

Many realistic game authors would suggest there are better ways to meet such an agenda than publishing RPGs.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadMany realistic game authors would suggest there are better ways to meet such an agenda that publishing RPGs.

It's a business, so that is the first consideration, however, having recieved a few paychecks myself, i have to agree!

Quote from: JimBobOzThis person is often found at The Forge in large numbers, or in rpg.net in small numbers (about 1 or 2%, according to a poll I posted once).

'Sfunny, I've noticed a few people on the Forge post that they don't game. Some of them may have been bitter. Never seemed like a lot, though. Most folks seem to play, and enthusiastically at that.

Peace,
-Joel

Quote from: RedFoxBecause a game can't be published without an agenda behind it, man.  Don't be silly.

Not unlike posts by homosexuals, eh? I'm onto you, buddy, so watch it.

To the original post, since I neither know, nor care, about Exhalted:

Yes, Pundit, there are times to avoid combat. SOmetimes, it's time for the ol' "Shoe leather express" and time to get the fuck out of there.

SOmetimes you're outnumbered and in a bad tactical situation. Anyone with half a brain is going to run and get the fuck into a better position, or at least run and hide.

However, knowing when to fight and when not to is what makes it fun.

As a GM, why should every encounter be intended for the PC's to fight and win?

Case in point: The other night, the party was low on ammo, and needed to get the fuck out of the city. Should they have engaged in combat with every zombie horde they met? Or should they have done what they did, which was sneak around, use silenced weapons or machetes, and slithered their way out of the city without taking on the over 25,000 zombies in the city? (The city had an original population of 80,000+)

BUT, there was plenty of combat, just with bladed weapons or silenced firearms.



But avoiding ALL combat ALL the fucking time... well, I guess if it's your thing to play "peace-niks and protestors" then be my guess.

Even James Bond had to throw down against the big bad guy sooner or later.

Quote from: T-WillardCase in point: The other night, the party was low on ammo, and needed to get the fuck out of the city. Should they have engaged in combat with every zombie horde they met? Or should they have done what they did, which was sneak around, use silenced weapons or machetes, and slithered their way out of the city without taking on the over 25,000 zombies in the city? (The city had an original population of 80,000+)

BUT, there was plenty of combat, just with bladed weapons or silenced firearms.



But avoiding ALL combat ALL the fucking time... well, I guess if it's your thing to play "peace-niks and protestors" then be my guess.

Even James Bond had to throw down against the big bad guy sooner or later.

Yeah, see, my point was more to do with the attitude some gamers have about RPGs themselves, that they claim that games with less combat are somehow by default "more sophisticated". It really had nothing to do with the issue of avoiding combat in the game, which is a whole other story, and obviously a very good idea (often players make things much harder for themselves by not avoiding combats that are entirely avoidable).

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditYeah, see, my point was more to do with the attitude some gamers have about RPGs themselves, that they claim that games with less combat are somehow by default "more sophisticated". It really had nothing to do with the issue of avoiding combat in the game, which is a whole other story, and obviously a very good idea (often players make things much harder for themselves by not avoiding combats that are entirely avoidable).

RPGPundit

OK, thanks for clearing it up.

Creating a genre where avoiding conflict sounds like it oughta be Hippie d20!

Quote from: T-WillardOK, thanks for clearing it up.

Creating a genre where avoiding conflict sounds like it oughta be Hippie d20!

Come on, man. You're not telling me you never saw any of that riot footage?