If you wanted to run a simulationist game with stats based on dimorphism then:

women get.
max str 15 roll 3d6
max dex 16, roll 3d6
max con 15, roll 3d6
max int 16 roll 4d6, drop lowest
max wis 18, roll 4d6 drop lowest
max cha 18, roll 3d6

dex isn't just about flexibility, its also reflexes and reaction speed which men have a clear advantage compared to woman in addition to over all strength (no matter what you might find about individual aspects such as grip strength, so unless you want to have different stats for grip strength, press strength, squat strength, etc, generic overall strength is what you should do), and of course woman have a higher average IQ compared to men, but there are more men geniuses than there are women geniuses, I would say women are wiser on average than men but are as equally capable of being maximized in wisdom as men. And I wouldn't give women any advantage or disadvantage in cha compared to men, that trope needs to die IMO, especially when you witness some modern women you'd wonder why anyone would think women have more cha than men.

men get.
max str 18, roll 4d6 drop lowest
max dex 18, roll 4d6 drop lowest
max con 18, roll 4d6 drop lowest
max int 18, roll 3d6
max wis 18, roll 3d6
max cha 18, roll 3d6

But if you're playing a fantasy game why would you want to bog people down with this and offend people who might otherwise play your game? people don't regularly climb 100 foot walls, cast spells, fight goblins, or anything else, so I don't really see why sex based max stats makes sense, but species based max stats does make sense, like you could say humans are smarter than dwarfs, or elfs have more dex than humans, etc.

>> and of course woman have a higher average IQ compared to men<<

No they don't. Per Erwing & Lynn, it's about 3 points lower.

Women are much better at the modern education system though. 

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on September 27, 2021, 09:03:49 AM
But if you're playing a fantasy game why would you want to bog people down with this and offend people who might otherwise play your game?

It's actually a useful screen.  If someone is going to be offended about realistic stats because it offends their political sensibilities, then we're going to have more problems down the road.  Best to lose them right at the start and get a player who's a better fit.

That said, I don't care enough to add dimorphism to a game where it's not there, but if it is there I won't bother to change it either.

As I've noted before, realism is not the be-all and end-all of a game.

This is escapism.

Good grief, my Savage Worlds Rifts cyborg has gotten hit with anti-armor missiles repeatedly in two different sessions. Out of like three hits he's only taken one wound.

Heck, Red Sonja is WAY down on the list of 'unbelievable things' compared to that.

Quote from: Mishihari on September 27, 2021, 01:40:19 PM
It's actually a useful screen.  If someone is going to be offended about realistic stats because it offends their political sensibilities, then we're going to have more problems down the road.  Best to lose them right at the start and get a player who's a better fit.

That said, I don't care enough to add dimorphism to a game where it's not there, but if it is there I won't bother to change it either.

So a positive use of the bait & switch?  You tell everyone in the pitch that there's going to be realistic stats.  Then when the ones that didn't throw a fit show up, you say, just kidding.

That's one of the simplest, most effective house rules ever.  Takes all of 10 seconds to write it, and no chance it breaks anything.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 01:47:10 PM
As I've noted before, realism is not the be-all and end-all of a game.

This is escapism.

Good grief, my Savage Worlds Rifts cyborg has gotten hit with anti-armor missiles repeatedly in two different sessions. Out of like three hits he's only taken one wound.

Heck, Red Sonja is WAY down on the list of 'unbelievable things' compared to that.

I strongly prefer a game to be realistic, except where unrealism is needed to fulfill the premise of the game or make the game more playable (quicker to run, etc)  This allows one to use his real world intuition to make decisions in the game and adds verisimilitude.  I had assumed that most gamers had the same preference, but was kind of shocked when a poll that I put up on this board showed that that was not the case.  If female barbarian warriors are important to the premise/setting/character concept/whatever then giving them the same stat distribution as the men makes sense.  If not, then I'd prefer it be realistic.  And the same goes for any other element of the game.

Quote from: Mishihari on September 27, 2021, 02:16:34 PM
I strongly prefer a game to be realistic, except where unrealism is needed to fulfill the premise of the game or make the game more playable (quicker to run, etc)  This allows one to use his real world intuition to make decisions in the game and adds verisimilitude.  I had assumed that most gamers had the same preference, but was kind of shocked when a poll that I put up on this board showed that that was not the case.  If female barbarian warriors are important to the premise/setting/character concept/whatever then giving them the same stat distribution as the men makes sense.  If not, then I'd prefer it be realistic.  And the same goes for any other element of the game.

I'm more or less the same way, except that I tend to include a fair amount of fantastical elements almost by reflex, and I want where the level of realism settles to be somewhat consistent across the whole game.  Both those exceptions tend to drag it further off the realism side in the areas where most people want realism. 

I made a smaller race for the current game.  Not halfings, but can think that way for this topic.  I made them bigger than D&D halflings are usually portrayed, because I didn't want their stats to be completely off the charts (not all that playable) or too unrealistic.  So I compromised and made them on the upper end of "small" compared to humans.  This makes them more comparable to 10-12 year old humans instead of 5 to 8.  Still not realistic, but just enough closer to realistic that I can live with it without being tempted to push modifiers too far into unplayable in the style of game intended. It helps that for me most characters start with semi-sucky stats but their career choices tend to bump the stats important to them. 

With that decision made, there is thus a kind of coarse grain for modest attribute changes for races, and there isn't any room left for fine distinctions for male/female in the model.  Yeah, technically human females should average something like 10 Str while human males will be 10.2 Str in that scale, but it is literally a rounding error.  D&D has even less room for such distinctions in its model than I do in mine.  Having decided I wanted a viable, smaller race under those conditions, I want to extend that level of realism throughout other aspects of strength and size for other creatures.  Ergo, there are things elsewhere that I could make a touch more realistic without violating the criteria you established, but would violate my consistency approach.

I contrast that to Dragon Quest, a game I love, where average male human adventurer Str is 15, with females having a slight adjustment.  However, since the player sets their scores from a pool, all that really means is that the very strongest males are ahead of females and the most dexterous females are ahead of males.  And very few characters can hit those limits anyway.  It's effectively a world-building complexity that has no measurable impact on the game.  In contrast with the poor DQ halfling, that gets a -6 Str--with race determined semi-randomly after scores are locked.  So if you are going to take a shot at being a halfing, better be willing to live with that modifier!  Much more realistic.  However, DQ is very much a sim-oriented model, where a halfling is going to be shunted into certain routes both by size and abilities.   You don't play one unless OK with that.

Problem is, my game would take place in Ayundell. There is no magic in Ayundell, it cannot exist there.

When any wizard, male or female, tosses a lightning bolt or fireball in an AD&D game the magic essentially does all of the work. If a female magic user of the same level does the same exact things- gestures, words, material components- as a male magic user she is going to get the same exact results assuming the dice rolls are the same (and that's random chance).

But this is NOT the case on Ayundell. The equivalent of a fireball spell there is tossing a fireglobe which bursts in a fiery blast on impact. Therefore strength will determine how far it will go, especially in a dungeon corridor where arching is not possible- it must then be thrown in a straight line. "Lightning bolt" is a sort of extending javelin with what amounts to a taser tip using a simple Tesla ("Slayer") coil and clockwork to produce the needed AC current- again, greater physical strength yields greater range and in this case penetrating power.

In other words, the Ayundellian equivalents of magic users will be much stronger than their AD&D counterparts. Since males are stronger than females they will get better range. This is a factor with long-range attacks. Likewise getting through Ayundellian equivalents of web spells, resin walls that block passages, etc. Carrying gear is another factor: the stronger you are the more you can carry, and this includes the alchemic weaponry used there. Stronger characters can carry more alchemic weaponry.

Since females are non-combatants as a rule (even Azuralupin females, 20+ strength and able to have 12 attacks/round (all special), usually do not fight unless they must), they are much more likely to be able to talk an opposing party out of fighting assuming that's possible. Their smaller size also makes them better able to perform spying and sneaking abilities (crumbling ledges are less likely to give under less weight). Their cleric domains are usually healing and growth, their auramancer talents specialize in this (e.g. red pandas).

Obviously race and species count too. A human male is rarely as strong as a half-orc female, let alone an Azuralupin female. None of this applies to Riverlords since there are no female Riverlords, and female shadow elves (the equivalent of Drow) are superior to male shadow elves.

This also means male dragons, especially lesser dragons, have greater range with their breath weapons.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 01:47:10 PM
As I've noted before, realism is not the be-all and end-all of a game.

They are completely indifferent to realism, except when it comes to this one thing.

It always amuses me when a bunch of nerds who have never lifted anything heavier than a box of unpainted minis babble on about men being stronger than women.

"None of the rest matters, but this - oof! - one thing is very important!"

Or those of us who work on farms, in warehouses, etc. as I do.

It always disgusts me when someone says "why worry about differences between sexes IT'S JUST A FANTASY GAME blah blah..."

But in a game like mine with dragons who are living hydrogen blimps, talking red pandas, anthro-fox vulpinish, killer trees, azuralupins, auramancers, aquadreels, blood drinkers, giant mutated two-headed apes ("Demogorgon") with flesh-rotting whips, pirate empires, picayunafolk, etc. etc. that does not want to play by SJW rules...suddenly fantasy games do matter.

I've been on this world for over half a century. That hypocrisy is really getting tedious.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on September 27, 2021, 09:32:14 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 01:47:10 PM
As I've noted before, realism is not the be-all and end-all of a game.

They are completely indifferent to realism, except when it comes to this one thing.

It always amuses me when a bunch of nerds who have never lifted anything heavier than a box of unpainted minis babble on about men being stronger than women.

"None of the rest matters, but this - oof! - one thing is very important!"

I'm always amused by someone whose version of the dick comparing contest is to accuse others of the same thing ever chance he gets.  No wait, it was only amusing the first couple of hundred times it happened ...

Must be compensating for something.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on September 27, 2021, 09:32:14 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 01:47:10 PM
As I've noted before, realism is not the be-all and end-all of a game.

They are completely indifferent to realism, except when it comes to this one thing.

It always amuses me when a bunch of nerds who have never lifted anything heavier than a box of unpainted minis babble on about men being stronger than women.

"None of the rest matters, but this - oof! - one thing is very important!"

IME it's the "nerds who have never lifted anything heavier than a box of unpainted minis" types who are inclined to buy into their University lecturers' belief that reality is a social construct & saying men are stronger than women is sexist. Actual warrior women (bodyguard, police ex-military) I've known IRL have no trouble with that fact, and the need to work around it. It was also pretty obvious when I was doing army training in a mixed sex unit.

As for RPGs, I love my Amazonian warrior women (and have a somewhat moth-to-flame attraction to fierce women IRL), but whether that's appropriate to support in an RPG depends on the genre. I don't want my D&D PCs touched by reality, but I want the mundane NPCs to mostly reflect reality to give a relatable baseline. In a different genre it may be better for even the PCs to be somewhat constrained; if it's Game of Thrones then Brienne of Tarth can be strong and skilled, but not as strong as The Mountain or even The Hound.

Can we please put stat limits on stupid gimmick posters instead.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on September 27, 2021, 09:32:14 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 27, 2021, 01:47:10 PM
As I've noted before, realism is not the be-all and end-all of a game.

They are completely indifferent to realism, except when it comes to this one thing.

It always amuses me when a bunch of nerds who have never lifted anything heavier than a box of unpainted minis babble on about men being stronger than women.

"None of the rest matters, but this - oof! - one thing is very important!"

LOL.  Stereotype much?

Actually your post makes me wonder how much truth there is to that stereotype.  SHARK is a retired marine; Ogg's an MMA professional; I'm not in the same class as either of those two, but I'm pretty seriously into weight training and martial arts.  Are theses examples typical, or the exceptions to the rule?  A poll would be nice but I don't think I could trust the result.

No, you couldn't trust the result. Back in the day SJGames had the infamous Overland Hiking thread. Every obese or scrawny nerd and his dog claimed to be able to walk 50 miles a day every day - hell, twice that.

Once again: nobody really wants realism, or Conflict would sell better than D&D. They just want to tweak things in a way to match their taste and ego, and then claim it's realism.