Are there any OD&D players/Refs on this Board? Or is this place all about the new stuff?
Surely you jest...
The answer is, "Yes."
Wait, are you implying anything after OD&D is new?
Quote from: Bobloblah;867170Surely you jest...
The answer is, "Yes."
Wait, are you implying anything after OD&D is new?
Traveller isn't new. Empire of the Petal Throne isn't new. Tunnels and Trolls probably isn't new either. (It seems like I've been ignoring it for nearly half a century.) Runequest is kind of new. Everything else though? That stuff is all new.
Quote from: Bren;867174Traveller isn't new. Empire of the Petal Throne isn't new. Tunnels and Trolls probably isn't new either. (It seems like I've been ignoring it for nearly half a century.) Runequest is kind of new. Everything else though? That stuff is all new.
Perspective. C'mon! Get some!
Quote from: Crimhthan;867168Are there any OD&D players/Refs on this Board?
There is a strong OD&D/OSR contingent here.
Quote from: Bobloblah;867170Surely you jest...
The answer is, "Yes."
Wait, are you implying anything after OD&D is new?
Was not implying anything, just calling it like I see it.
Quote from: Bren;867174Traveller isn't new. Empire of the Petal Throne isn't new. Tunnels and Trolls probably isn't new either. (It seems like I've been ignoring it for nearly half a century.) Runequest is kind of new. Everything else though? That stuff is all new.
I will accept the first two as not new.
Quote from: yosemitemike;867177There is a strong OD&D/OSR contingent here.
Glad to hear it.
Love your signature. I was there a short time and got a 3 month ban and am working on that permaban. Course I was permabanned from DF years ago.
Yep, never played it but my last two successful campaigns were OD&D, though it hit a point of house ruled into some sort of Frankenstein.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867179Glad to hear it.
Love your signature. I was there a short time and got a 3 month ban and am working on that permaban. Course I was permabanned from DF years ago.
There's a bunch of us here too.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867168Are there any OD&D players/Refs on this Board? Or is this place all about the new stuff?
Absolutely no OD&D stuff around here.
OD&D stuff is for old duffers who can't get over the imaginary Good Old Days when men were men, women were women and games didn't have any gosh darn queers in them. We only play Monsterhearts here. If you play anything else, that means you hate gay people and want to kill them. You don't hate gay people, do you?
Welcome Crimhthan!
Quote from: Crimhthan;867168Are there any OD&D players/Refs on this Board? Or is this place all about the new stuff?
Plenty of us. Of course, the line between OD&D and AD&D is debatable, but if you are looking for Old School fans, this site has many and the owner RPGPundit has written two OSR games - Arrows of Indra and Dark Albion - both which have gotten great reviews.
How did you get banned from Dragonsfoot?
Quote from: yosemitemike;867195You don't hate gay people, do you?
:popcorn:
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;867193Absolutely no OD&D stuff around here.
Rigggghhhhhtttttttttttt!
Quote from: yosemitemike;867195OD&D stuff is for old duffers who can't get over the imaginary Good Old Days when men were men, women were women and games didn't have any gosh darn queers in them. We only play Monsterhearts here. If you play anything else, that means you hate gay people and want to kill them. You don't hate gay people, do you?
Nothing imaginary about the Good Old Days, I still live there with my 43 year old campaign that is going strong. What are Monsterhearts? What are gay people? Do you mean light-hearted and carefree people or something else?
Quote from: Spinachcat;867205Welcome Crimhthan!
Plenty of us. Of course, the line between OD&D and AD&D is debatable, but if you are looking for Old School fans, this site has many and the owner RPGPundit has written two OSR games - Arrows of Indra and Dark Albion - both which have gotten great reviews.
How did you get banned from Dragonsfoot?
Can you point me to some reviews, I would like to take a look.
I got banned from not submitting to the groupthink there and not agreeing that my old school was inferior to their new school is it in a nutshell.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867245my 43 year olld campaign that is going strong
Quote from: Crimhthan;867245OD&D game #3783 was played December 1st, 2015. The march towards 4000 Games continues.
0_o
Get a thread on your campaign started. NOW.
cracks whip
Quote from: The Butcher;8672540_o
Get a thread on your campaign started. NOW. cracks whip
Agreed. That'd be pretty interesting.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867244Rigggghhhhhtttttttttttt!
It was worth a try.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867179Glad to hear it.
Love your signature. I was there a short time and got a 3 month ban and am working on that permaban. Course I was permabanned from DF years ago.
Don't mean to derail. Maybe there ought to be a support group, lol.
I was on RPGnet a long-ass time, never did get banned. Years ago, I just decided one day to stop wasting my time. I don't believe for one minute that the rabble there actually ever plays RPGs, and if they do I doubt they ever enjoy it.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867245Nothing imaginary about the Good Old Days, I still live there with my 43 year olld campaign that is going strong. What are Monsterhearts? What are gay people? Do you mean light-hearted and carefree people or something else?
Well, my campaign from those imaginary Good Old Days was juvenile, kind of stupid and fell apart 35 years ago so they Good Old Days were obviously not what they are cracked up to be. It was certainly a problem with the basic design philosophy of the system and not because I was 13 dipshit playing with other 13 year old dipshits.
I mean people who dislike the pathos inherent in older versions of D&D and want to feel heroic and awesome right from the start and are therefore light-hearted and carefree because their characters are superheroes.
Monsterhearts is a heavily spiced dish made from cow hearts. It was originally called corazón de vaca de los diablos but I am American and therefore do not use foreign words.
Anyway, as I was saying, if you aren't playing a Story Game with rules designed to force play along specific channels they you are a knuckle dragging luddite who just wants to kill orcs who of course represent black people you racist.
Quote from: yosemitemike;867390Anyway, as I was saying, if you aren't playing a Story Game with rules designed to force play along specific channels they you are a knuckle dragging luddite who just wants to kill orcs who of course represent black people you racist.
Yup. Everyone is racist except the ones equating black people to dull-witted monsters.
Quote from: Lunamancer;867392Yup. Everyone is racist except the ones equating black people to dull-witted monsters.
Orcs are barbaric people who usually live in mountainous regions in the North somewhere and occasionally go on a rampage. Historically, Blacks lived in mountainous regions in Northern Europe and occasionally went on rampages so what else could Orcs possibly be? Oh yeah and colonialism something something. European colonialists invented the idea of barbarians, right? Bar bar bar.
Quote from: yosemitemike;867390Well, my campaign from those imaginary Good Old Days was juvenile, kind of stupid and fell apart 35 years ago so they Good Old Days were obviously not what they are cracked up to be. It was certainly a problem with the basic design philosophy of the system and not because I was 13 dipshit playing with other 13 year old dipshits.
My wife just reminded me that it is 44 years not 43 years and it will a 45 year old campaign this coming April. I was 34 when I started playing so if your campaign was juvenile it likely did have something to do with you being a juvenile. Of course YMMV.
Story is what you talk about after the game is over.
Your orcs are black? They represent black people? Here all this time I thought it was supposed to be to the peoples of India and China they represented. Well what do you know! We've had it wrong all this time. Of course there are an awful lot of things you can do with orcs besides kill them.
We roll our characters up 3d6 in order - no straight 18's IMO unless someone really rolls one with my dice in front of me in which case I would be happy to let them play it.
I've always wanted to get into OD&D and the OSR stuff personally, and I am a millennial who was born in 1993, so I wasn't around for the Good Old Days. But I do find the early RPG's to be fascinating.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867168Are there any OD&D players/Refs on this Board? Or is this place all about the new stuff?
I have been running a continuous Dungeons & Dragons game in Lake Geneva since summer of 1974.
Quote from: Chainsaw;867560I have been running a continuous Dungeons & Dragons game in Lake Geneva since summer of 1974.
Mind if I ask who you are?
Quote from: Crimhthan;867558My wife just reminded me that it is 44 years not 43 years and it will a 45 year old campaign this coming April. I was 34 when I started playing so if your campaign was juvenile it likely did have something to do with you being a juvenile. Of course YMMV.
No, that can't be it. That would mean that I was at fault and that's not possible. It must be the system.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867558Story is what you talk about after the game is over.
A proper game should funnel you into whatever sort of story the writer wants you to tell and bolt you down there. Get with the times, man. The Commodore 64 had its day but it belongs in a museum now along with basic D&D and the Hula Hoop.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867558Your orcs are black? They represent black people? Here all this time I thought it was supposed to be to the peoples of India and China they represented. Well what do you know! We've had it wrong all this time. Of course there are an awful lot of things you can do with orcs besides kill them.
Of course they do....or maybe it's Native Americans. They represent some sort of brownish minority that we care about anyway. No one cares about Asians. They don't even get affirmative action and are therefore not oppressed enough to matter. They represent whoever I am portraying as the most downtrodden this week. Next week, they may become women of color. We'll have to see.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867558We roll our characters up 3d6 in order - no straight 18's IMO unless someone really rolls one with my dice in front of me in which case I would be happy to let them play it.
I did that once and got a really crappy character so that system is obviously bad.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867558My wife just reminded me that it is 44 years not 43 years and it will a 45 year old campaign this coming April.
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.
OD&D was not published 44 years ago, oh lying sack of shit.
MY PEE HOLE! CAN YOU TONGUE IT, MOTHERFUCKER?
I lived in an ag town in the Central Valley in California not in the Mid-Western cradle of RPGs so I am a Johny Come Lately. I got into role-playing games with AD&D. It was the Summer of 1978....
I cajoled my parents into buying me a Player's Handbook and a Monster Manual. I don't think there was a Dungeonmaster's Guide yet. Two weeks or so later they got stolen at school and I spent the next couple of years playing out of other people's books. Come to think of it, I would have been 12 going on 13 at the time which makes me feel old.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;867559I've always wanted to get into OD&D and the OSR stuff personally, and I am a millennial who was born in 1993, so I wasn't around for the Good Old Days. But I do find the early RPG's to be fascinating.
Today is the Good Old Days. Tomorrow can be too. We all missed the early years of chess and poker, but they plan just fine today. Same with OD&D (or whatever clone you prefer).
All that matters is getting a good group, good food and tossing dice and having a great time.
Here's what I know from hard won experience:
It was great fun playing OD&D in 1978.
It is great fun playing OD&D in 2015.
It will be great fun playing OD&D in 2069.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;867586MY PEE HOLE! CAN YOU TONGUE IT, MOTHERFUCKER?
One of these days somebody's gonna take you up on that!!
Crimhthan probably just has his dates wrong. That happens to you old guys! :)
Quote from: Spinachcat;867601Crimhthan probably just has his dates wrong. That happens to you old guys! :)
By his own reckoning he is 78 years old so technically his senility isn't even early.
Quote from: Bren;867607By his own reckoning he is 78 years old so technically his senility isn't even early.
He has been playing D&D since before there was even D&D.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;867586Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.
OD&D was not published 44 years ago, oh lying sack of shit.
MY PEE HOLE! CAN YOU TONGUE IT, MOTHERFUCKER?
We started a Fantasy Campaign based on the fantasy section of Chainmail in April of '71 and then converted it to OD&D when OD&D came out. So yes our campaign is 44 years old as of last April. I don't know who you are you foul-mouthed jerk, but I would bet this 78 year old man could still whup you!
Quote from: Bren;867607By his own reckoning he is 78 years old so technically his senility isn't even early.
Quote from: Chainsaw;867613He has been playing D&D since before there was even D&D.
Go back and read what I posted, I did not say I had been playing OD&D for 44 years, I said my campaign was 44 years old, which is the case, 3 years using the Fantasy Rules out of Chainmail and 41 years using OD&D.
My wife does accuse me of being senile from time to time.
My word. I think I'll stay out of this one, if folks wouldn't mind. It's me birthday, today, and I have a chocolate cake to murder... :)
Quote from: chirine ba kal;867617My word. I think I'll stay out of this one, if folks wouldn't mind. It's me birthday, today, and I have a chocolate cake to murder... :)
Happy Birthday!
Quote from: Crimhthan;867616Go back and read what I posted, I did not say I had been playing OD&D for 44 years, I said my campaign was 44 years old, which is the case, 3 years using the Fantasy Rules out of Chainmail and 41 years using OD&D.
Ahhh, totally misunderstood. Yeah, that's much more believable then. Thanks for clarifying.
While I am at it let me post this:
Over on the Troll Lords forums (http://www.trolllord.com/forums/) a poster by the name of Sieg has this is in his signature
Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot
Great quote, just one problem, Tim Kask did not say that, I did.
Go to the Q&A with Tim Kask page 2 (http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=426847#wrapheader) and scroll down to my first post in that thread dated Wed May 02, 2007 6:43 am
and read down the page from there to a post by Tim Kask (kaskoid) *24th post on that page) where he reply to me is his 3rd reply in that post on Wed May 02, 2007 8:57 pm. Towards the end of that post he quotes me and reply's:
Forty-eight years of marriage and we were playmates as babies.
Mein Gott! You must be older than dirt... And I thought I was one of the senior old fogies in gaming...
My words above are in Italic and his are not.
Then he quotes my signature on DF and posts his agreement with it as follows again I am putting my words in Italic and his are not:
Quote:
Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school. Old school D&D involves house rules and at least some flying by the seat of the pants, making it up as you go.
Rules lawyers have missed the heart and soul of old school D&D.
Tim Kask replied: Truer words were never spake.
My reply to Tim in that thread was this:
My birth year is 1937 and I turned 70 in April, my wife says I am older than dirt. :wink: Being a wise husband I never remind her that we are the same age. :lol: I doubt that I qualify as one of the senior old fogies in gaming since I was not close to the source up in Lake Geneva. But being a senior old fogy, I will own to that, senior moments and all. We started our Chainmail Fantasy campaign in April of 1971 and in February 1974 converted it to Dungeons & Dragons.
Sieg was also posting in that DF thread, but I am not sure why he misattributed the quote, but if anyone is currently a member of DF and/or Troll Lords and knows Sieg please bring it to his attention. Please note that I do not think it was deliberate.
Here are the quotes by me from my signature preserved in amber as it were at DF.
Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.
Rules lawyers have missed the heart and soul of old school D&D.
Munchkins are not there to have fun, munchkins are there to make sure no one else does.
Nothing is more dishonorable, than being a min-maxer munchkin rules lawyer.
OD&D game #3000 will be the 5th, 6th and 7th of September 2008.
Quote from: Chainsaw;867621Ahhh, totally misunderstood. Yeah, that's much more believable then. Thanks for clarifying.
Yeah, see my post with this info from DF back in 2007 before I was perma-banned by Steve the Admin there.
Quote from: chirine ba kal;867617My word. I think I'll stay out of this one, if folks wouldn't mind. It's me birthday, today, and I have a chocolate cake to murder... :)
Happy Birthday!
Quote from: Crimhthan;867616Go back and read what I posted, I did not say I had been playing OD&D for 44 years, I said my campaign was 44 years old, which is the case, 3 years using the Fantasy Rules out of Chainmail and 41 years using OD&D.
My wife does accuse me of being senile from time to time.
You failed to mention that you weren't using OD&D and since the thread in which you posted is about OD&D it was a pretty reasonable inference to make that you were saying you had played D&D for 45 years.
Now it would have been more polite for people to ask you what system you used, but if you wanted more polite you came to the wrong place to post.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867614We started a Fantasy Campaign based on the fantasy section of Chainmail in April of '71 and then converted it to OD&D when OD&D came out. So yes our campaign is 44 years old as of last April. I don't know who you are you foul-mouthed jerk, but I would bet this 78 year old man could still whup you!
Welcome to the board.
So what were pre OD&D days of your campaign like? After reading the various anecdotes, Playing at the World, Hawk & Moor, etc my impression that there a lot of variations between different groups in how they played so it would be interesting to hear how you managed things.
Quote from: Chainsaw;867621Ahhh, totally misunderstood. Yeah, that's much more believable then. Thanks for clarifying.
If you fucking believe that he predates Blackmoor, sure.
I, however, grew up in farm country. I know bullshit when I see it.
Quote from: estar;867649Welcome to the board.
So what were pre OD&D days of your campaign like? After reading the various anecdotes, Playing at the World, Hawk & Moor, etc my impression that there a lot of variations between different groups in how they played so it would be interesting to hear how you managed things.
He's a fucking lying sack of shit.
And my name is Michael Mornard, one of Gary Gygax' original players, the only person to have a long running character in both Greyhawk and Blackmoor, the person who got Dave Sutherland hired by TSR, and the person who introduced M.A.R. Barker to D&D.
And if you don't believe it, ask Rob Kuntz, Ernie Gygyax, Tim Kask, Jim Ward, Greg Swenson, or Bill Hoyt, ALL of whom are active online.
And I repeat, Crimhtan, I publicly call you a lying sack of shit.
I spent roughly a year (1975/6) using Chainmail to play a game that I couldn't really define but was effectively a solo D&D-esque campaign centered on combatants in a running battle between two groups that lived in a huge home-made castle I had in my room. There were things about it that differed from OD&D (no experience and advancement, other than sometimes promoting a normal person to a hero). But it was definitely a campaign in the sense of tracking the exploits of individuals over a long time. So, I can easily imagine someone running a very D+D like game using those rules.
I started playing D&D (although we didn't call it that, of course) after the Little Wars rules came out in 1913. Started off as a wargame, but we used our imagination and just ran with it. I'm pretty old, but hey, it said it was for boys up to 150 (and for the more intelligent sort of girl, too), so I made those words to live by. I'm pretty old at this point, but I'm not up to 150, so I refuse to shuffle off this mortal coil -- BTB, I don't have to, yet! (And I still don't even have a brain tumor, although sometimes my wife Laura Anna says it sure seems like I do!)
What would be most helpful to all the people here would be if Crimhthan can share the time management tips that allowed him to read two full books every day of his life, while working, raising his family, and still managing to keep his 45-year campaign going.
Jesus Christ... someone gaming longer than Geezer. How is it possible you don't know one another? I thought all the Antediluvian's knew one another?
Quote from: Bren;867636... but if you wanted more polite you came to the wrong place to post.
If I was concerned about politeness I would stay off the internet. Besides how could you all be any worse than DF or RPG.Net or the KKK of old school forums.
Quote from: estar;867649Welcome to the board.
So what were pre OD&D days of your campaign like? After reading the various anecdotes, Playing at the World, Hawk & Moor, etc my impression that there a lot of variations between different groups in how they played so it would be interesting to hear how you managed things.
We had four teams of two players each, and I was the judge. Each team had so much in funds + or - a random amount, which which to buy troops and fortifications and other resouces. Then a random draw for the fantasy monsters. I devised the terrain and created four starting points and then randomly placed the teams. As play went on we gradually moved to each team being able to devise both general orders for the troops and specific orders for the fantasy creatures to adding specific orders for up to 12 individuals of the regular troops who became able to advance to hero and superhero one step at a time. We also made the maps bigger and devised a great variety of ways for the players to reach the actual sand table where the battles took place so that knowing where your opponent was could be a mystery for quite a while. Scouts became very important. We later added crystal balls to the game and a succesful crystal ball check while very difficult to achieve had great strategic value. One of the later adds was to provide a secret cache of resources in each territory that each team had to try to locate first to gain an advantage in the battles. Each cache could be anything up to an including something to bribe an opponent with. Those are a few things.
Quote from: EOTB;867764What would be most helpful to all the people here would be if Crimhthan can share the time management tips that allowed him to read two full books every day of his life, while working, raising his family, and still managing to keep his 45-year campaign going.
I will treat this like a serious question. I learned to read at between 4-5 years old, my parents kept an ample supply of books around and encouraged me to read so I read several books a day throughout childhood and by the 7th grade I taught myself to turn the little voice in my head off and that upped my reading speed tremendously. We did not have any TV in our home (or internet or cell phone) throughout my entire childhood. We did sometimes gather around the radio for things like "The Shadow". I remember once when I was about 9 or 10 years old, it was really rainy weather and my mother took me to the library and I took out 10 books, two days later I had to talk her into taking me back again. By my teens I had a discreet arrangement with the public library and I was allowed to take out as many books as I could carry at a time, usually about 20-25. Through my working years my reading declined a lot, but still I read a lot since I can read most books of up to about 220 pages in about an hour. I read fairy tales, mythology, myths and legends , folk tales, mysteries, westerns, adventure, science fiction, fantasy, history, science, autobiographies and lots of other things. I spent 47 years on the job, from 18-65, but I piled up big numbers before I left school and I have piled up the numbers over the last 13 years of retirement, but I held my own during my working years. Also you have to remember that a standard paperback used to run between 170-250 pages with anything longer being rather uncommon. The day of the 600-1100 page paperback book is a rather recent phenomena. I count a 600 pager as two books and an 1100 pager as 4 books.
I also remember reading of Harlan Ellison that at the age of about 32 or so he owned over 30,000 books and had read all of them and maintained a writing career while doing so. I believe that there are people out there that work for a living and still have managed to read quite a bit more than I do. I have met a couple of people in my life who could read about three times the speed that I can and then demonstrated that they had photographic memories to boot. I would love to have that increased speed but I would be joyous beyond measure to have a photographic memory with an organized and indexed recall.
Quote from: tenbones;867811I thought all the Antediluvian's knew one another?
My being from Ohio, and not Wisconsin would likely explain it.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867624Yeah, see my post with this info from DF back in 2007 before I was perma-banned by Steve the Admin there.
What got you banned?
Quote from: aspiringlich;867866What got you banned?
I was unabashedly old school and championed OD&D. I had ongoing battles with an idiot that was a mod and went by Egg of Coot and several other pseudo old schoolers. And several members of the KKK of old school forums regularly attacked me there and other places. Steve felt it was easier to ban one person than to ban the dozen or so that were starting the fights.
Quote from: aspiringlich;867866What got you banned?
Quote from: Crimhthan;867870I was unabashedly old school and championed OD&D. I had ongoing battles with an idiot that was a mod and went by Egg of Coot and several other pseudo old schoolers. And several members of the KKK of old school forums regularly attacked me there and other places. Steve felt it was easier to ban one person than to ban the dozen or so that were starting the fights.
Unfortunately it took banning a dozen or so to get rid of the one person starting the fights.
Crimhthan may have found a home here, though. I don't recall an explicit rule at theRPGSite against sock puppetry.
Quote from: EOTB;867881Unfortunately it took banning a dozen or so to get rid of the one person starting the fights.
Crimhthan may have found a home here, though. I don't recall an explicit rule at theRPGSite against sock puppetry.
The RPGSite welcomes all sorts of outlaws and renegades (with certain exceptions). At least the sock puppetry doesn't seem to be in support of anything in particular.
Quote from: ligedog;867908The RPGSite welcomes all sorts of outlaws and renegades (with certain exceptions). At least the sock puppetry doesn't seem to be in support of anything in particular.
Deep cover Crimhthan sock puppet! Get him!
It's been a long 8 years lurking but it was totally worth it!
It's real easy to get permabanned from RPG.Net, I was literally banned for expressing a different opinion about WoD. I shit you not (though I was pretty adamant about it, which may have led to my downfall). Anyway, that whole part of my life is something I am ashamed of and I'd rather leave it behind, so let's get back to discussing OD&D and old-school gaming.
So, are there any good retro-clones of OD&D worth checking out? I know of the retro-clones but I don't know the specific details as to which clone corresponds to which edition of old-school D&D.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;867927So, are there any good retro-clones of OD&D worth checking out? I know of the retro-clones but I don't know the specific details as to which clone corresponds to which edition of old-school D&D.
Probably worth its own thread.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;867927It's real easy to get permabanned from RPG.Net, I was literally banned for expressing a different opinion about WoD. I shit you not (though I was pretty adamant about it, which may have led to my downfall). Anyway, that whole part of my life is something I am ashamed of and I'd rather leave it behind, so let's get back to discussing OD&D and old-school gaming.
So, are there any good retro-clones of OD&D worth checking out? I know of the retro-clones but I don't know the specific details as to which clone corresponds to which edition of old-school D&D.
Swords & Wizardry White box edition and Delving Deeper are two closest clones to OD&D that I am aware of.
There are many other old school clones out there and most of them are free to download, so you can compare and use whatever suits your personal tastes the best.
I hope that WOTC eventually puts the OD&D rules back in pdf form. It would be nice to have affordable legal copies of the original material available again.
Quote from: EOTB;867881Unfortunately it took banning a dozen or so to get rid of the one person starting the fights.
Crimhthan may have found a home here, though. I don't recall an explicit rule at theRPGSite against sock puppetry.
:rotfl: well if he's banned anyone on my account he has banned a lot of innocent bystanders. The last time I took a look at DF all of the troublemakers and fake old schoolers were still there. In fact it looks like the KKK of rpg forums has staged a coup and taken over since I was banned years ago. As far as sock puppets I am mighty amused that anyone seriously thinks I know enough about computers to create one. There is nothing on DF that I need to login to look at, so why bother.:thanx:
Quote from: Doc Sammy;867927So, are there any good retro-clones of OD&D worth checking out? I know of the retro-clones but I don't know the specific details as to which clone corresponds to which edition of old-school D&D.
IMO Delving Deeper is the best one out there, although Iron Falcon is pretty sweet.
Quote from: ligedog;867918It's been a long 8 years lurking but it was totally worth it!
You've been lurking 8 years and this thread is what it took to get you to start posting. Better be careful, folks might think you are a sock puppet.:rolleyes:
Quote from: ligedog;867918The RPGSite welcomes all sorts of outlaws and renegades.
Glad to hear it!
Quote from: Chainsaw;867933Probably worth its own thread.
Check the link in my signature, fairly good place to start.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867178I will accept the first two as not new.
So you won't accept the first non-D&D RPG as being "not new"?
Quote from: Crimhthan;867984:rotfl: well if he's banned anyone on my account he has banned a lot of innocent bystanders. The last time I took a look at DF all of the troublemakers and fake old schoolers were still there. In fact it looks like the KKK of rpg forums has staged a coup and taken over since I was banned years ago. As far as sock puppets I am mighty amused that anyone seriously thinks I know enough about computers to create one. There is nothing on DF that I need to login to look at, so why bother.:thanx:
(Note - links following are just to forums like DF/TBP and a OSR blog)
Of course, you know nothing about how to register multiple identities (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?756846-Infraction-for-crimhthan-17)-Permanent-Ban), and yet you keep getting ejected from multiple different boards (http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=602643#p602643) for exactly that.
Even in this last instance, it only took about an hour to follow the sock puppets. One of your other known IDs, Helanar Frosthelm/The Perilous Dreamer (http://originaldungeons-and-dragons.blogspot.com/) (see "about me" at far right of page), also from Ohio (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?770113-Have-you-ever-been-to-your-national-capital&p=19557024#post19557024), joined TBP in August (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?763623-How-Much-Customization-is-Fair&p=19298861#post19298861) minutes before you wanted to start pimping his/your list of clones (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?761174-Ye-Olde-School-List-of-Retro-Games-amp-Clones-Retro-Clones-and-What-Have-You&p=19297025#post19297025), and the "two" of you immediately started agreeing with each other in threads (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?763623-How-Much-Customization-is-Fair&p=19300397#post19300397) (see last quote in post).
After TBP boots you for 3 months (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?764444-Infraction-for-crimhthan-10)-Three-Month-Ban), The "HalenarTPD" identity takes up the mantle, and after your 3-month ban as Crimhthan ends, Halenar goes out in blaze of Men's Rights glory (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?771543-Not-trolling-it-is-my-life-and-my-experience), and according to the time stamps on initial mod response and your first post here, on the same day Crimhthan comes to the RPG site.
It is noted in the bottom of that thread that there are multiple sock puppets, and if this continues, that ALL of your sock puppets other than Hal (instead of just Hal) will be banned. The ban of Hal/TPD happens (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?771578-Infraction-for-HalenarTPD-17)-Permanent-Ban), and Crimhthan hasn't posted there since that warning to HalenarTPD was given. Note that Crimhthan wasn't "your original account", either, so...
Time to move here as the next site to try to drum up interest in the forum that definitely "is not (your) forum, and (you) are not a mod on", and the list of retro clone games written by a guy that is in no way you, that you've never met, who lives in the same spot, plays the same games the same way, that you coincidentally never fail to pimp at every single marginally relevant opportunity.
I'm actually glad you're here because you'll enjoy the freedom of speech allowed, I think (although you may not enjoy the dog piling that comes with expressing your views in your normal fashion). Plus, it should be amusing to see you talk to Old Geezer as if you don't already converse with him as Perilous Dreamer on ODD74. Everybody should get to experience your schtick at least once, if for no other reason to hone their doppelganger spotting skills.
I'm just waiting for you to discover the political/social posts on Pundits board so you can participate in the conversations on social mores and morality. As Terrell Owens would say: "better get'cher popcorn ready!" :popcorn:
The Perilous Dreamer is a cool name.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867985IMO Delving Deeper is the best one out there, although Iron Falcon is pretty sweet.
Interesting! Why do you prefer DD vs. S&W:WB?
Quote from: Justin Alexander;867990So you won't accept the first non-D&D RPG as being "not new"?
I don't care for T&T so you might say I am biased.:)
EOTB
According to you and by your logic every person in a thread that I agree with must be my account. To follow your logic or lack thereof I must have several hundred accounts.
As to the one link, the poster that went by Egg of Coot before he disappeared off of DF was well known to be a coward, a liar and a bully who was fond of running over people rough shod with his moderator powers at DF.
You have posted a nice little collection of lies there, but none of it is true. Also there is nothing at the blog you linked to in the "about me" section that matches up with me except the part about liking OD&D. You likely think that I make up 99% of the OD&D fans on the internet. If you are stupid enough to believe that go ahead, post all of the lies you want to, it won't make any of them true no matter how much you tell them.
You and some of the others (the fake old schoolers) from the KKK of the rpg world must be mighty jealous to spend so much of your time on me, instead of doing something useful with your lives. So go ahead and whine, it won't change the fact that you and your KKK friends are liars and cowards.
Quote from: Spinachcat;868006The Perilous Dreamer is a cool name.
Interesting! Why do you prefer DD vs. S&W:WB?
I think DD is closer to the original game and I prefer the writing style. There are some really good cleaned up pdfs floating around of the real thing, hopefully they will continue to be fairly easy to find. I bought copies of the real thing back when they were for sale, shame they had to take them down.
It is a shame that cheap reprints of the original game are not readily available. I have looked at a lot of the clones and they are alright for someone that cannot afford a couple of hundred or more for the real thing. My biggest gripe about the clones is that they take out (clean up) all of the quirks that made OD&D so good. I suppose someone should write up a separate document of how to take your clone and add life to it by have a list of OD&D quirks to use in your clone game.
I think the best "clones" are yet to be written.
Sock Puppetry is the ultimate RPG. You sirs have won the internet.
Quote from: JasperAK;868019Sock Puppetry is the ultimate RPG. You sirs have won the internet.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: Crimhthan;868018I think DD is closer to the original game and I prefer the writing style.
I agree DD appears written "closer to the original" and I'm pretty sure that's why it didn't resonate with me like S&W:WB which FOR ME is closer to how I played OD&D over the years.
Quote from: Crimhthan;868018My biggest gripe about the clones is that they take out (clean up) all of the quirks that made OD&D so good.
What quirks do you feel are taken out?
Why do you feel the particular missing quirk made OD&D so good?
Quote from: Crimhthan;868018I suppose someone should write up a separate document of how to take your clone and add life to it by have a list of OD&D quirks to use in your clone game.
I nominate you Pikachu!!!
Seriously, you have 3000+ OD&D sessions under your belt AND you have an interest in clones so you sound like the dude for this task.
Quote from: Spinachcat;868022What quirks do you feel are taken out?
Why do you feel the particular missing quirk made OD&D so good?
What I mean is that the clones cannot copy the game word for word so when they come to anything that is "vague" or "lends itself to mulitple interpretations" they have several choices, one is to leave it out completely, two is to replace it with their own house rule, or three is to competely rewrite it to remove any doubt as to what is meant. I don't think that any of those are particulary good choices, but the OGL does not give them a good choice.
When you remove all of the places in the text that lend themselves to being taken in several different directions you are moving towards everyone playing the game the same way, which is contrary to the way OD&D was designed to be played. Every campaign was supposed to be completely different.
Quote from: Spinachcat;868022I nominate you Pikachu!!!
Racist insults??
Quote from: Spinachcat;868022Seriously, you have 3000+ OD&D sessions under your belt AND you have an interest in clones so you sound like the dude for this task.
Well maybe I will one of these days.
Quote from: Crimhthan;868009I don't care for T&T so you might say I am biased.:)
What does not liking it have to do with whether or not T&T it is a new game?
Quote from: JasperAK;868019Sock Puppetry is the ultimate RPG. You sirs have won the internet.
Quote from: Crimhthan;868021:rotfl: :rotfl:
You just got permabanned on RPGnet about five minutes ago....for sock puppeting. So...
How does RPG.net permaban someone for sock puppets? Can't they just refresh the page and then register as...another sock puppet?
Quote from: Crimhthan;868026What I mean is that the clones cannot copy the game word for word so when they come to anything that is "vague" or "lends itself to mulitple interpretations" they have several choices,
Which vagaries in OD&D text do you feel have been left out of clones that you feel are important to the fun and feel of the game?
For me, once the ongoing vagaries is when do you roll for reaction? AKA, how much interaction occurs before you get to roll and how much interaction is necessary before the CHA modifier comes into play.
Quote from: Crimhthan;868026Racist insults??
Are you a small yellow magical rodent very popular in anime?
Quote from: Spinachcat;868036How does RPG.net permaban someone for sock puppets?
The moderators there have magical powers. They also have unicorns, rainbows, and a Horn of Plenty of Puppies...or so I hear.
Quote from: Spinachcat;868006The Perilous Dreamer is a cool name.
He used to be a guy in Germany, at least when I talked to him via Skype. Big Blackmoor fan, too.
Quote from: Spinachcat;868036How does RPG.net permaban someone for sock puppets? Can't they just refresh the page and then register as...another sock puppet?
Unfortunately, yes, sort of. Unicorns though, just like Bren said.
Which in the end is all pointless, anyway. It's like walking around the small town in Nebraska you've lived in for quite some time wearing one of those old plastic Halloween batman masks, and thinking no one will recognize you. A new name and avatar isn't really that much of a disguise
Quote from: chirine ba kal;868044He used to be a guy in Germany, at least when I talked to him via Skype. Big Blackmoor fan, too.
Edit - might be somebody else, but this PD is from "Central Ohio, Midwest USA" as can be seen from a post of his recently shut down DF profile
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1574587#p1574587
Quote from: EOTB;868045Edit - might be somebody else, but this PD is from "Central Ohio, Midwest USA" as can be seen from a post of his recently shut down DF profile
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1574587#p1574587
Right, gotcha. Thanks!
Quote from: Bren;868042They also have unicorns, rainbows, and a Horn of Plenty of Puppies...or so I hear.
And that's why we hate their freedom! :)
Quote from: EOTB;868045A new name and avatar isn't really that much of a disguise.
That actually surprises me....and my 12 sockpuppets too! :)
hmmm...
quick google search. Blog full of inane stuff, useless OSR "content", complaint about someone's signature. Google+ account. No real content just links to blog. Same "picture". Facebook. Obviously fake name. All friends under 30. No pictures of family, friends. Banning lists on TBP. Trolling using OSR buzz-phrases.
Just happens to have played D&D before D&D existed. References wife as if she sits reading over his shoulder. No original thoughts expressed. Cadence of a young man in their 20s.
Going to have to concur with Old Geezer (minus the obsession with other men licking my cock). This is a fraud. A not particularly clever bullshitter apparently trying to play up OSR "cred".
(shrug) not that it matters to me. A bit pathetic, but whatever.
Quote from: Spinachcat;868036For me, once the ongoing vagaries is when do you roll for reaction? AKA, how much interaction occurs before you get to roll and how much interaction is necessary before the CHA modifier comes into play.
Hey! Something interesting to talk about. I usually like to check reactions instantly upon first meeting. Anything other than an immediate hostile response allows for the PCs to improve their approach with whatever words & actions they wish.
If communication can be established, then the PCs have ample opportunity to either improve things or make them much worse.
I really enjoy those first moments of tension when no one knows what that initial reaction will be.
Quote from: Lunamancer;867282Don't mean to derail. Maybe there ought to be a support group, lol.
I was on RPGnet a long-ass time, never did get banned. Years ago, I just decided one day to stop wasting my time. I don't believe for one minute that the rabble there actually ever plays RPGs, and if they do I doubt they ever enjoy it.
I'm going to voice my disagreement, which people can promptly ignore. I don't think continuously harping on our non-big-purple-ness does anything but keeping this place being more "the anti-Rpgnet" than something of itself. Being an anti-fan of something can be just as much a fan activity as a normal fan, and makes TBP more important in the scheme of things than it actually is. My $0.02, and probably too easy for me to say, having come here without being there first (I have a lurker ID there, otherwise simply ignore the site's existence).
Quote from: Larsdangly;867742I spent roughly a year (1975/6) using Chainmail to play a game that I couldn't really define but was effectively a solo D&D-esque campaign centered on combatants in a running battle between two groups that lived in a huge home-made castle I had in my room. There were things about it that differed from OD&D (no experience and advancement, other than sometimes promoting a normal person to a hero). But it was definitely a campaign in the sense of tracking the exploits of individuals over a long time. So, I can easily imagine someone running a very D+D like game using those rules.
For a game that works perfectly well as a regular miniature skirmish game, Chainmail sure seems to have spawned a whole truckload of people turning it into some similar animal to what Arneson was doing. I'd love to time travel back to the early 70s and see what in the air made it the right time to add adventure continuity to miniatures games. :-)
Is it me or is this place filling up with dinosaurs?
As the site gets older the posters get older, not just the old ones but the newbies.....
Any recent joiners under 50?
:D
Quote from: jibbajibba;868072Is it me or is this place filling up with dinosaurs?
As the site gets older the posters get older, not just the old ones but the newbies.....
Any recent joiners under 50?
:D
It's a bit like watching granma and grandpa argue over who gets to wear the dentures today.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;868069For a game that works perfectly well as a regular miniature skirmish game, Chainmail sure seems to have spawned a whole truckload of people turning it into some similar animal to what Arneson was doing. I'd love to time travel back to the early 70s and see what in the air made it the right time to add adventure continuity to miniatures games. :-)
I think that obvious from the personal stories along with the research done for Playing at the World and Hawk & Moor.
To cut things down to the nitty gritty it was something like this.
1) A bunch of people found miniature wargaming fun.
2) The Napoleanic era became the most popular time period to play out. Probably because of the Napolean mystique, the formal tactics, and above all the variety.
3) Diplomacy appeared and became popular choice.
4) Gamers thought that it would even be more fun to try to fight out a whole war. The gamers of the Upper Midwest opted to pursue this by adapting Diplomacy for the strategic level and having multiple gamers playing different side.
5) In trying to do this somebody had to manage this and one of the poor sods that got stuck with this was Dave Arneson.
6) In conjunction the wargame scenarios grew in variety beyond just being a fight between side A and side B.
7) David Welsey came up with a interesting scenario that centered on a single town with some of the gamers playing a individual character rather than a army. He made multiple factions with multiple goals each with their own victory condition. This was called Braunstein and proved to be very popular although hugely labor intensive.
8) People started to branch out to medieval miniature wargaming and even fantasy. Although the fantasy stuff was looked down upon by the general community.
9) Dave Arneson decides he wants to run a Braunstein campaign. Decides that it would be a medieval fantasy setting. At first it was more of a miniature wargame with individual character but the addition of the Blackmoor dungeons proved to be a lot of fun.
So much so that I got the sense that Dave got slightly annoyed by the focus the dungeon was getting as Blackmoor Castle got taken over by the baddies and the good guys exiled to Loch Gloomen. It didn't do any good as it appear the first thing they did was try to find the local dungeon and explore.
10) Arneson runs a session of Blackmoor for Gygax and crew in Lake Geneva. This inspire Gygax to make Greyhawk and to start writing the Dungeons & Dragons rules.
11) After working with Dave Arneson and extensive playtesting, D&D is released.
Now if we were standing there at the time it would be hard to pick out what Arneson, Gygax and crew were doing out from what everybody else was doing. People were pretending to be a Napoleanic general/leader, multiple campaigns were being run for different games and eras. Sophisticated wargame scenarios were being handled by referee, etc, etc.
The genius of Gygax and Arneson was not only that they were the first to put it all together in a coherent package. But they created a lasting design for the rules right from the get go.
Quote from: Crimhthan;868026What I mean is that the clones cannot copy the game word for word so when they come to anything that is "vague" or "lends itself to mulitple interpretations" they have several choices, one is to leave it out completely, two is to replace it with their own house rule, or three is to competely rewrite it to remove any doubt as to what is meant. I don't think that any of those are particulary good choices, but the OGL does not give them a good choice.
Quote from: Crimhthan;868026When you remove all of the places in the text that lend themselves to being taken in several different directions you are moving towards everyone playing the game the same way, which is contrary to the way OD&D was designed to be played. Every campaign was supposed to be completely different.
Except that how it is the retro-clone. Every campaign is different in the sense you are talking about. And it is for several reason
Delving Deeping , Swords & Wizardry White Box and the other OD&D retro-clone are indeed more specific to reflect the author's interpretation and rewrite of the individual rules. However the foundation of every retro-clone is the open game license. So the hobby doesn't have just one interpretation of OD&D but multiple views scattered among a half-dozen products.
People have trouble wrapping their mind around this because the old model is that there is a single publisher owning the IP who puts the word of god into a rulebook as how the game is played. The D&D Boxed Set was not only the official source of how to play OD&D but the only source. And you rightly point out that because of how it was written it lead naturally to a situation where every campaign was different.
But that not the only the goal of encouraging campaign different. The other way is to have a shared IP with multiple interpretations of a core set of rules. It doesn't matter if say EOTB wrote a Kill, Maim, and Loot OD&D retro-clone and the tone was this is the one true way of playing OD&D. Because Delving Deeper, White Box, and others will still exist.
So while one could the theoretical Kill, Maim, and Loot RPG may be criticized as not being in the spirit of OD&D it doesn't matter for the hobby. As anybody who think Kill, Main, and Loot is bullshit can publish their own take. Or partial take, or whatever.
Second, even if the author Kill, Maim, and Loot tries to write it as the definitive OD&D retro-clone. They will not succeed. A true OD&D retro-clone will demand a lot of referee ruling because of what the OD&D mechanics cover. And if the referee tries to expand the mechanics of his rules then you really can't say it is a OD&D anymore. They could try to claim it but the Internet being what it is it will be exposed for what it truly is. OD&D plus house rules.
For example while my Majestic Wilderlands supplement and RPG is based on OD&D it covers way more than OD&D. So it will never be a OD&D retro-clone. I added some stuff from Greyhawk via the Swords & Wizardry Core Rules, then there all the stuff I added via my supplement. I think an OD&D player would comfortable playing my take but I would be misleading people if I said it was a clone of OD&D. Which is why I say The Majestic Wilderlands is OD&D implemented for my campaign and includes house rules.
So I don't view your criticism as justified by how the hobby works. It is always easy to hold up the original books as some kind of holy grail. But in OD&D case it is stupid because as you point out the rules as written by Gygax and Arneson have to interpreted. So everybody campaign is going to be different. And because of the nature of the hobby today is to share among ourselves and in some case formally publish it natural that you will see multiple intrepetaton floating out there.
And that is a great thing and certainly within the spirit of the game.
Finally when the original rulebook become available again through PDF they will sell. People may prefer to use a particular retro-clone but they are going to want the original as well. The same way with OSRIC and AD&D. Some people prefer to use the OSRIC rulebook as their AD&D reference. However pretty much everybody I know who does that also had bought the original either in hard copy or PDF.
I'd not heard of Dragonsfoot before, and I may only have ever been to RPGnet following links from other forums like this one, pointing to fiasco threads. However I am feeling a strange impulse to create accounts there and opine until banned. ;-)
Quote from: jibbajibba;868072Is it me or is this place filling up with dinosaurs?
As the site gets older the posters get older, not just the old ones but the newbies.....
Any recent joiners under 50?
:D
I seem to remember a couple recently, asking question like how long we've been gaming (who got several pages of answers from people all saying decades, when she may have been wondering how many months or years before people typically stopped gaming... ;-) ).
Quote from: jibbajibba;868072Is it me or is this place filling up with dinosaurs?
As the site gets older the posters get older, not just the old ones but the newbies.....
Any recent joiners under 50?
:D
I'm only 22, if that helps
Quote from: Spinachcat;868052And that's why we hate their freedom! :)
Well they are free to have their assigned unicorn and rainbow and to like it. And all deserving members do get a turn, which occurs in assigned rotation after all the more deserving members have had their turns, to use the Horn of Plenty of Puppies.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867168Are there any OD&D players/Refs on this Board? Or is this place all about the new stuff?
If I didn't say it to you yet, welcome to theRPGsite!
I'm pretty sure we've got what you're looking for, yes.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867246Can you point me to some reviews, I would like to take a look.
Well, here's my own 'review' of Arrows of Indra (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=27339), and here's one someone else did off-site (http://greyhawkgrognard.blogspot.com.uy/2013/03/review-arrows-of-indra.html).
Here's a great review of Dark Albion (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=33183), one of many you can find around. And here's my 'review' of the product (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=33233), if you want.
Quote from: EOTB;867881Crimhthan may have found a home here, though. I don't recall an explicit rule at theRPGSite against sock puppetry.
There very much is a rule on theRPGsite against sock puppetry.
If this is more than just jabbering, and someone knows about sock puppetry, it should be reported.
Quote from: RPGPundit;868154There very much is a rule on theRPGsite against sock puppetry.
If this is more than just jabbering, and someone knows about sock puppetry, it should be reported.
I had looked at the RPGsite constitution before writing my post and didn't see anything in it about multiple IDs. I didn't see the separate thread about sock puppets (and wasn't really looking for one since I presumed the constitution would be a revised document).
I don't know of any sock puppeting here, and wasn't implying that there was. Instead, that if that wasn't a big deal, people who tend to dabble in it would be more likely to survive long-term, here. Crim is an example of someone who can both make not-insignificant contributions of game-relevant material to a site, and also be prone to dabbling in puppetry (unless all these mod teams are lying at once).
Glad to find out sock puppeting being OK was a misconception on my part.
Quote from: Crimhthan;867168Are there any OD&D players/Refs on this Board? Or is this place all about the new stuff?
Yes, I'm refereeing OD&D on Sunday evenings at my local game club.
Okay, it's the WotC reprints, but it's still the same game.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;868063Hey! Something interesting to talk about. I usually like to check reactions instantly upon first meeting. Anything other than an immediate hostile response allows for the PCs to improve their approach with whatever words & actions they wish.
Right.
First I check for surprise and reaction time. Then I check for alignment and mood. NPCs have attempted to "extract a toll" rather than just fighting.
If things go along with talking instead of hitting, I reroll every time the situation takes a major change; for instance, if the PCs sweeten their offer significantly I'll reroll to see how much the NPCs like it.
Once a couple of bugbears got reaction and said "Give munny!" and one of the PCs said "Okay, here's 20 gold each, you work for me now!" and the bugbears paused and went "... um...okay."
Quote from: RPGPundit;868103If I didn't say it to you yet, welcome to theRPGsite!
I'm pretty sure we've got what you're looking for, yes.
Thank you, happy to be here.
Quote from: RPGPundit;868105Well, here's my own 'review' of Arrows of Indra (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=27339), and here's one someone else did off-site (http://greyhawkgrognard.blogspot.com.uy/2013/03/review-arrows-of-indra.html).
Here's a great review of Dark Albion (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=33183), one of many you can find around. And here's my 'review' of the product (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=33233), if you want.
I like the "guide to the contents along with some "Designer notes"" idea and every product should come with one. It makes it a lot easier to see if it is worth taking a longer look at. In regard to Arrows of Indra, I love this paragraph:
QuoteSome people have also pointed out that I made use of a real-life minority group, the Bhil, in my game, and that I was somehow "reinforcing" the caste structure by including it. These are stupid arguments; I'm utterly opposed to the caste structure in real life, I say so in the introduction to the game itself. But what I am doing is making use of sources. The Bhil are not intended to be "non-humans" by the way they were included, they're intended to be non-vedic; which they were. And the way people wrote about them back then was no different than how they wrote about, say, the Gandharvas; both were detailed as alternately being not-really-human and/or just-another-tribe. This is a reflection of the mentality of the times, not anything I believe or endorse myself. In any case, moving on to stuff more worth talking about now...
There are too many people out there that respond with accusations when anyone uses real-life minority groups. They don't care that the portrayal is accurate for the time period, they want history re-written or you must be someone bad. Such people have too much time on their hands and need a good swift kick. We need more authors to ignore these idiots.
I am not a big fan of of skill systems (understatement of the year) But I am interested in taking a closer look at what you have here.
The section that interests me the most is detailed gazetteer of the Bharata Lands, a guide to the Patala Underworld. That looks like a rich mine of ideas I can use IMC.
The Greyhawk Grognard review is well-written, easy to read and quite an enticing sell of the product and of course written by someone of unimpeachable character (not many of those around these days).
As for Dark Albion, I liked both writeups and it just looks like pure fun to read and I am particularly interested in Appendix P and your "gritty version of D&D" since gritty is what I do.
I believe both of these may find their way into my stocking for Christmas.
Quote from: estar;868078I think that obvious from the personal stories along with the research done for Playing at the World and Hawk & Moor.
SNIP
The genius of Gygax and Arneson was not only that they were the first to put it all together in a coherent package. But they created a lasting design for the rules right from the get go.
This is a great post!
Quote from: estar;868084People have trouble wrapping their mind around this because the old model is that there is a single publisher owning the IP who puts the word of god into a rulebook as how the game is played. The D&D Boxed Set was not only the official source of how to play OD&D but the only source. And you rightly point out that because of how it was written it lead naturally to a situation where every campaign was different.
So I don't view your criticism as justified by how the hobby works. It is always easy to hold up the original books as some kind of holy grail. But in OD&D case it is stupid because as you point out the rules as written by Gygax and Arneson have to interpreted. So everybody campaign is going to be different. And because of the nature of the hobby today is to share among ourselves and in some case formally publish it natural that you will see multiple intrepetaton floating out there.
And that is a great thing and certainly within the spirit of the game.
You're the author of the Majestic Wilderlands supplement and RPG?? I did not know that! [Insert admiration emoticon here]
I think you are misunderstanding me. I was just pointing out that each clone is more tightly written and that would tend to make play of each clone significantly more uniform than OD&D. That does not deny the diversifying effect of multiple clones and their interaction with OD&D itself and each other and the synergy that creates. So yes incombination the overall effect should be many different campaigns.
Quote from: EOTB;868045Edit - might be somebody else, but this PD is from "Central Ohio, Midwest USA" as can be seen from a post of his recently shut down DF profile
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1574587#p1574587
Go look it up my last post at DF was Sun Aug 03, 2008.
This PD registered on Mon Aug 17, 2009 over a year later, if I was such a "puppeteer" would I really wait over a year to do it? And if that was my "puppet" it really took the Admin over 6 years to figure it out. Really? 6+ years? 6+ years? Whoever PD is had nothing to do with me. Because otherwise it strains credulity.
Quote from: EOTB;868157Crim is an example of someone who can both make not-insignificant contributions of game-relevant material to a site, ..
:huhsign: :hmm:
Quote from: spaceLem;868163Yes, I'm refereeing OD&D on Sunday evenings at my local game club.
Okay, it's the WotC reprints, but it's still the same game.
One of these days I will have to get my hands on one of those, just so I could publish a fan piece of just the stuff that was deleted as a historical document, yeah that's it, a historical document.
Glad to hear that you are playing OD&D.:cool:
Quote from: Crimhthan;867168Are there any OD&D players/Refs on this Board? Or is this place all about the new stuff?
Yes, I still play and GM OD&D. My wife and I have an ongoing 1:1 7 year campaign (on and off) that is strictly OD&D. My ongoing "AD&D-lite" campaign swings perilously close to OD&D/Greyhawk in a search for simplicity, although I allow the players the classes/races/rules from AD&D/1e PHB.
Dark Ages AD&D-lite campaign wiki: https://the-dark-ages.obsidianportal.com/
The Vale OD&D campaign wiki: https://the-vale-solo-campaign.obsidianportal.com/
I still DM OD&D, but I don't get to play it much anymore. In fact, I'm thinking of running my group through a special adventure over Winter Break since, if I calcuate correctly, I'm coming up on 40 years of playing OD&D. (My friend got a copy for Christmas in 1975 and I think we tried it out the next day. If not the next day then the day after that.) Either way, OD&D is stil my "go to" game a lot of the time. :D
I've thought about creating an anime-themed OSR-type game with help from OD&D (or retro-clones thereof such as Swords & Wizardry or Microlite 74) and the Anime D20 SRD as well.
The title would be Anime & Adventuring and if I had someone who can draw anime and manga styled artwork (as well as the know-how to make PDF's), I might actually fully create and launch such a game.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;868367I've thought about creating an anime-themed OSR-type game with help from OD&D (or retro-clones thereof such as Swords & Wizardry or Microlite 74) and the Anime D20 SRD as well.
Interesting!
Start a thread about this in the Design forum!!!
Quote from: EOTB;868157Glad to find out sock puppeting being OK was a misconception on my part.
Its one of very few banning offenses we do have around here
Quote from: Chgowiz;868320Yes, I still play and GM OD&D. My wife and I have an ongoing 1:1 7 year campaign (on and off) that is strictly OD&D. My ongoing "AD&D-lite" campaign swings perilously close to OD&D/Greyhawk in a search for simplicity, although I allow the players the classes/races/rules from AD&D/1e PHB.
Dark Ages AD&D-lite campaign wiki: https://the-dark-ages.obsidianportal.com/
The Vale OD&D campaign wiki: https://the-vale-solo-campaign.obsidianportal.com/
Hi Chgowiz, haven't seen you around anyplace in a long time! Congrats on that campaign with your wife, that is awesome.
Quote from: finarvyn;868344I still DM OD&D, but I don't get to play it much anymore. In fact, I'm thinking of running my group through a special adventure over Winter Break since, if I calcuate correctly, I'm coming up on 40 years of playing OD&D. (My friend got a copy for Christmas in 1975 and I think we tried it out the next day. If not the next day then the day after that.) Either way, OD&D is stil my "go to" game a lot of the time. :D
Hi Fin, great to see you again. Thumbs up on running that special adventure, I hope it comes off for you!
Quote from: Arkansan;867188Yep, never played it but my last two successful campaigns were OD&D, though it hit a point of house ruled into some sort of Frankenstein.
Frankenstein is great, why don't you tell us more about it.
Quote from: The Butcher;8672540_o
Get a thread on your campaign started. NOW. cracks whip
Quote from: Bobloblah;867261Agreed. That'd be pretty interesting.
Where would be the appropriate place to do something like that?
Quote from: Crimhthan;868513Hi Chgowiz, haven't seen you around anyplace in a long time! Congrats on that campaign with your wife, that is awesome.
This forum (P&P RPGs Discussion).
Quote from: Crimhthan;868514Hi Fin, great to see you again. Thumbs up on running that special adventure, I hope it comes off for you!
Great to see you as well. I'm still trying to juggle real life to see if I can get my group together. He holidays are often tough for game scheduling. :(
Quote from: finarvyn;868585Great to see you as well. I'm still trying to juggle real life to see if I can get my group together. He holidays are often tough for game scheduling. :(
That's true, the good news is that it gets a lot easier if you and your players are retired. Hopefully you have a few players that are close your own age.