I don't get the RPG streaming fad. I get that guys like that there are somewhat attractive women doing it who often will dress up in provocative clothing while steaming but I have noticed that when folks that hit a larger market of streaming that they aren't playing the game at the table that the way I think most gamers do (or I'm way out of touch). They are playing for "performance" and not playing for "plays" sake. I'm almost feel that the streamers are to RPGs as cosplayers are to comicbooks or other fandoms in that the use of the source material is only for the dress up or the use of RPGS is only for the performance. I also am skeptical that folks that do the streaming also are in it for money as I see that usually they collect money and things.

I just was watching a D&D 5E stream and the way the players talked, interacted with each other, and did things it was obviously they were doing for what made the best "show" and not for what made the best "game" if you get me.


I'm going to go out and continue to yell at clouds.

No that's obvious. But you have to make certain compromises to make a D&D game watchable on a stream. So they're running a show more than running a game. But that's fine, it is entertaining to watch sometimes.

Though Critical Role always puts me to sleep; what I always enjoy is Chris Perkins' games and those always still feel real.

(shrugs)  If I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone mutter that Doing Things Differently From Me Isn't Playing The Same Hobby I would be pretty derned well off.

I don't give a damn about the game system.  Or the game setting.  Or whether you're doing hack-n-slash or dungeon fantasy or comedies of manners.  Or whether you're doing SF (or whether your SF is Old Trek vs New Trek vs B5 vs Firefly vs Traveller vs Shadowpunk vs Transhuman Space ...).  Or whether your group's a bunch of friends who've been gaming together for twenty years vs whoever shows up at 7 PM Tuesdays at the FLGS.  Diceless, storygames, LARP, online chatroom, MMORPG, screw it.  You playing make-pretend with a bunch of friends?  It's all the same hobby.

I don't really see an issue with it. My only concern is because some of the shows are staged or highly edited to get the best bits, newer gamers might hesitate to GM because they want their sessions to be perfect like the RPG stream. But at the same time, there are plenty of RPG streams that are just a bunch of people playing the game with no edits and no script. And even without RPG streams, I remember having my own expectations set too high by some of the sample session sections in old RPG books (which were a little too perfect). If it gets more people in to the hobby, that is a good thing.

I just tried streaming my Tuesday campaign as a podcast (we did 2 sessions, unfortunately ran into technical issues recording a third, but should be back on next with another recording). I have to say, you are aware you are being recorded and putting that out there. It can change your behavior. I Basically made a decision, and told everyone to just play the way they always do. So those of us who tend not to use lots of voices and stuff, didn't do so. We just played how we always do. I also made a point of putting out one of our weaker sessions on the first go (just so I wouldn't be afraid of letting people see the cracks in the sessions). But I did all that because I wanted there to be no gap between the podcast sessions and my regular sessions. I don't think it is bad if youtube channels or podcasters decide to make their sessions with an eye toward entertaining the audience.

Being observed changes things.  That's true no matter what the activity, though sometimes the changes are so minimal as to be irrelevant.  The more important a particular activity is, the less likely it will be changed significantly by observing it, though even that's not 100%.  See televised courtroom proceedings, for example.  Nothing that happens in a tabletop game is terribly important, therefore there is no brake to changes other than the desires of the participants to avoid such.

Depends. Some of these are more like acting and less like playing an RPG. But that is only in the presentation. Some come across more like a sit-down LARP. Others come across as more like a stage play nearly. But they are still rolling the dice and doing normal game stuff.

Take a look at the video for DragonStrike for example. Its presented as a little movie. But throughout theres still the normal gameplay to resolve things. (just not as much as the actual game has.)

Whereas the Record of Lodoss War anime while based on BX D&D player logs. Has none of the actual gameplay shown. Same with the novelizations of those player logs.

Quote from: Ravenswing;1015476(shrugs)  If I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone mutter that Doing Things Differently From Me Isn't Playing The Same Hobby I would be pretty derned well off.

I don't give a damn about the game system.  Or the game setting.  Or whether you're doing hack-n-slash or dungeon fantasy or comedies of manners.  Or whether you're doing SF (or whether your SF is Old Trek vs New Trek vs B5 vs Firefly vs Traveller vs Shadowpunk vs Transhuman Space ...).  Or whether your group's a bunch of friends who've been gaming together for twenty years vs whoever shows up at 7 PM Tuesdays at the FLGS.  Diceless, storygames, LARP, online chatroom, MMORPG, screw it.  You playing make-pretend with a bunch of friends?  It's all the same hobby.

Haha bravo!!!

Quote from: Ulairi;1015441I get that guys like that there are somewhat attractive women doing it who often will dress up in provocative clothing while steaming...

This also happens in regular tabletop games.

I played in an online convention game that was set up to be live-streamed. I didn't know the other players at all but they all seemed to be hamming it up waaaaaay beyond what I've normally experienced... like there was some Junior Thespian award being given out afterward. It wasn't a bad game over all but I did end up feeling odd for not engaging in any dramatic gnashing of teeth or crying.
I'm not really sure it had to do with the camera or if they always played that way but they did at some point mention 'putting on a show'.

Is American foot ball a team sport?  Its different than soccer or Rugby.  Football was designed to be watched as much as played.  The changes are bigger now that its watched on TV.

Quote from: Ulairi;1015441I don't get the RPG streaming fad. I get that guys like that there are somewhat attractive women doing it who often will dress up in provocative clothing while steaming but I have noticed that when folks that hit a larger market of streaming that they aren't playing the game at the table that the way I think most gamers do (or I'm way out of touch). They are playing for "performance" and not playing for "plays" sake. I'm almost feel that the streamers are to RPGs as cosplayers are to comicbooks or other fandoms in that the use of the source material is only for the dress up or the use of RPGS is only for the performance. I also am skeptical that folks that do the streaming also are in it for money as I see that usually they collect money and things.

If my games were streamed:
[GM]Right, you approach the forest and an Aldryami steps out to greet you
[Player1] What's an Aldryami
[GM] An elf, they live in forests
[Player1] He's elvish? There's a bloke down the chip shop who swears he's Elvish
[GM] "Greetings, who are you who want to enter the forest?"
[Player2] "I am Hallax the Bard and we are friends of the elves"
[Player1] Bard? You're barred!
[Player3] "We are looking for the Wind Cat and need to pass through your forest to find it in its mountains"
[Player1] Have you seen this video about a cat?

There is a reason why streamed games look rehearsed, they are designed to avoid the above.

Same Hobby? Sure.
Same activity? No.

Whatever RPG they are playing, they add an OOC metalayer to it, namely one of performance for entertainment by viewers.
Playing the game with that metalayer, like any metalayer, is different than playing without it.

I think it's largely a generational thing. Some people, most of them younger, subscribe to the adage that If it's not on YouTube, it didn't happen.

Quote from: CRKrueger;1015663Same Hobby? Sure.
Same activity? No.

Whatever RPG they are playing, they add an OOC metalayer to it, namely one of performance for entertainment by viewers.
Playing the game with that metalayer, like any metalayer, is different than playing without it.

I agree with your point in general but it feels like you've really made an overbroad statement. Could you give an example of what play without OOC metalayer would even look like? That sounds like some kind of ideal 'method' notion of RPG playing, there is always an OOC metalayer to play, from character builds to passing the cheetos. And aren't players and GMs often 'playing' to each other? That is part of the fun of a game.

Some (not all) gamers that broadcast their sessions on video streams simply are doing it to entertain viewers that are in their chatroom. There's all kinds of reasons why a person would watch (and maybe even throw some money at) such things. And it doesn't have to be RPGs that they're doing. It could be any topic/subject.

Quote from: Voros;1015721I agree with your point in general but it feels like you've really made an overbroad statement. Could you give an example of what play without OOC metalayer would even look like? That sounds like some kind of ideal 'method' notion of RPG playing, there is always an OOC metalayer to play, from character builds to passing the cheetos. And aren't players and GMs often 'playing' to each other? That is part of the fun of a game.

For every game session that doesn't have OOC yapping in it, there are 1,000s of game sessions that do. They are rare. But they exist. If I know someone is an OOC yapper, they don't get an invite.