I was glancing at ENWorld today, something I do very irregularly (its pretty low on my list of forums of interest, but i look at it maybe once every two weeks), and I noticed a thread where a guy asks for a D20 setting product that's 98% description and 2% rules; and another guy recommends him "Arduin".

Now first of all, is there a D20 Arduin? This is the first I hear of it.

Second, if there is, why the fuck would it be 90% fluff? The Arduin I know of was essentially a huge set of (occasionally unbalanced) optional spicy crunch for 1st edition AD&D... supposedly its own system in later versions but in reality just a rip-off of AD&D and the goal was very clearly to use most of the "cooler" arduin stuff (like the spells that did 200HP damage for 1D12 rounds to everything in a 10000' line) in D&D itself.

How the hell did the "Arduin" name go from something that was 98% crunch in the original version to something that is recommendable to someone looking for 90% fluff?

Me confused! :confused:

RPGpundit

1) http://www.worldofkhaas.com/
2) Dave Hargraves is dead.

I am absolutely certain there is no Arduin d20, 'cause if there were I would have a copy.  Maybe two copies.  Maybe all copies everywhere.

Quote from: RPGPunditI was glancing at ENWorld today, something I do very irregularly (its pretty low on my list of forums of interest, but i look at it maybe once every two weeks), and I noticed a thread where a guy asks for a D20 setting product that's 98% description and 2% rules; and another guy recommends him "Arduin".

That other guy would be me. The new book is actually 100% description, 0% rules. It's not d20 beyond the applicability of any other rules free worldbook.

QuoteSecond, if there is, why the fuck would it be 90% fluff?

There is no good reason. I would suspect the actual reason is "the people in charge of the license are your classical old-school anti-d20 reactionaries who won't put out a well done modern, d20 translation of Arduin even though it would probably sell like hotcakes."

What a gang of cunts.  They have utterly betrayed the history of this incredible game, just because they're a gang of big-headed heretics out to prove a point about hating D20. Don't they realize that it is WAY more against the spirit of Arduin to take that game title and turn it into something that's all setting, then it would be to make it D20.  Dave must be rolling in his grave.

RPGPundit

You're talking about people who, many years ago, proudly announced they could use 'hobbit' because they weren't TSR. Only to have their asses handed to them by Tolkein Enterprises for using 'hobbit'.

Quote from: jrientsI am absolutely certain there is no Arduin d20, 'cause if there were I would have a copy.  Maybe two copies.  Maybe all copies everywhere.

You would not have mine.

Unless you could get past my Deodanth bodyguards, I suppose.



Seriously, while I was never the biggest fan of the whole d20 thing, if any one game setting deserved, nay, demanded an official d20 supplement, it's Arduin.

If they had struck while the iron was hot, Arduin might be a big name again in gaming, instead of a historical blip.  Talk about a wasted oppurtunity...

Yeah, looking at these original 3 Arduin books I have, they seem tailor-made for a d20 version. Hell, a lot of it could be translated into d20 with little real effort, or would have a d20 analog somewhere already. Whether it would be - or could be - balanced against other d20 stuff is the $64 question. But Arduin is one of those cases where it wouldn't matter.

I'm with the Slaad and Pundit re:why the fuck they would make Arduin into an all-fluff setting book. The setting, such as it was, always struck me as more a frame for Hargrave to hang his rules innovations on than an actual setting.

By the way, am I the only one who sees echoes of the Arduin grimoires in HackMaster...?

Quote from: ColonelHardissonBy the way, am I the only one who sees echoes of the Arduin grimoires in HackMaster...?

Yes, in certain ways HM is inspired by Arduin almost as much as by 1st ed AD&D.

However, its not for D20.  D20 could really use a book of crazy mixed-up Gonzo rules additions.

I mean fuck, Arduin was the REAL "Encounter Critical".

RPGPundit

I'd buy a d20 Arduin like I'd buy a GURPS Arduin.

That is to say: Not at all.

Good for them for pissing on the bandwagon as it passes by.

Somebody's got to.

Quote from: YamoGood for them for pissing on the bandwagon as it passes by.

Bugger off, Yamo.  The pro- and anti- d20 ideologues both annoy the hell out of me.  D20 didn't destroy gaming.  Nor is it the Second Coming.  I have fun playing d20, even if it isn't my favorite.

I don't want an Arduin d20 because I'm one of those people who thinks everything should be d20.  I want Arduin d20 because it would be fun and it would be a perfect fit for d20.

Besides, do you even know what a bandwagon is?  It's the wagon that the circus band would ride in the parade.   Are you against circuses and bands?  That's like being anti-fun.

Quote from: jrientsI don't want an Arduin d20 because I'm one of those people who thinks everything should be d20.  I want Arduin d20 because it would be fun and it would be a perfect fit for d20.

If you want Arduin that bad, you probably already have it (as I do). So what's the problem, exactly? Hell, even if you don't have it, it's very affordable on Ebay.

Quit remindimg me of one of those dudes that thinks that every even remotely successful movie ever needs to be remade every couple years with, like, new CGI effects and shit.

Quote from: RPGPunditNow first of all, is there a D20 Arduin? This is the first I hear of it.

Believe it or not, in early 2000 I was one of the playtesters for an Arduin d20 that Emperor's Choice Games had been working on. If it was published Arduin d20 might have beaten Scarred Lands to the shelves as the first fully-developed d20 System campaign setting, but EmpCho got cold feet about the OGL and canceled the thing.

Quote from: YamoIf you want Arduin that bad, you probably already have it (as I do). So what's the problem, exactly? Hell, even if you don't have it, it's very affordable on Ebay.

I have Arduin on ebay and I spread the good word of its awesomosity every chance I get.  Consider how much eaisier it would be to win new converts if it was available as a shiny new book that was compatible with what the kids were playing.  Listen, I'm trying to inject more old school cool into d20 and you're bitching.  I thought you liked the older stuff?

QuoteQuit remindimg me of one of those dudes that thinks that every even remotely successful movie ever needs to be remade every couple years with, like, new CGI effects and shit.

Oh, don't give me that shit.  I'm so old school it's beyond cool and straight into the absurdly juvenile.  There are people on this board laughing their asses off at you for even suggesting I'm that kind of guy.

Quote from: William G. GruffBelieve it or not, in early 2000 I was one of the playtesters for an Arduin d20 that Emperor's Choice Games had been working on. If it was published Arduin d20 might have beaten Scarred Lands to the shelves as the first fully-developed d20 System campaign setting, but EmpCho got cold feet about the OGL and canceled the thing.

My heart is broken.