I picked up a PDF of this, from Workhorse RPG (whom I don't see on the Red/Yellow/Green lists)
At first glance, looks 5e compatible, but older style.
Only 4 races, 4 classes, no subclasses/archetypes/kits.
Power levels way chopped down, way simpler.
Roll attributes, pick race and class (separately), pick background, buy equipment and go.
No skills system for non-weapon stuff: just roll, add the appropriate attribute bonus and convince the DM that your background would give appropriate experience in the task to justify adding a bonus.
Anyone ever give this game a go?
Short answer - no.
It looks interesting. Can you give us a brief summary please?
Summary: The game attempts to be a Missing Link between 0e/1e and 5e.
I was looking for a game I could play with my kids, who currently play 5e, but without blue-haired Teifling Warlocks multiclassed into Air-Benders, or whatever. Something that feels like D&D, but without having to teach them a completely different ruleset and tossing a big chunk of the books I have lying around.
I don't know what else I can tell you without repeating myself. I've not gotten much chance to really dig into it, but that's what I've got so far. I was hoping someone else has actually played/ran it.
Style-wise, it's more like the old game (getting rid of what an old 2e player would call silliness). Some (many) of the archetypes in 5e don't feel very "D&D" to me. They're not at home in an Oerth or Forgotten Realms-ish setting.
Mechanically, it is like they stripped 5e down to the bone, both de-powering the superheroes, but also simplifying the game. This thing looks like it will be very understandable to people for whom 5e was their original point of reference.
In the author's words:
Quote
What Are Some of the Differences Between 5E and Olde Swords Reign Classic?
•No Feats, Skills or Subclasses
•Character Classes and Races
•Class Levels
•Backgrounds
•Simplified Difficulty Classes
•Range and Movement
•Spell Lists
• Monster Hit Dice
No Feats, Skills or Subclasses
Olde Swords Reign gets rid of feats, skills and subclasses, speeding up play and character creation. Skills are replaced with Backgrounds and straight ability checks.
Character Classes and Races
There are only 4 classes and 4 races in Olde Swords Reign. All are based on the 1974 rules and supplements for the worlds oldest roleplaying game.
Class Levels
Characters in OSR go to level 10.
Backgrounds
Backgrounds let characters use their proficiency bonus for any non-combat related checks that relate to their background, this replaces skills.
It has an appendix for converting monsters from other systems.
This really does look interesting. There's also a new Advanced Olde Swords Reign, which you can very cheaply on Amazon as a softcover book. It has 12 classes and 7 races.
Huh, interesting! I wonder what they mean by 'Monster Hit Dice'? Does that mean a return to the old d8 progression? If so that'd help speed up dungeon populating considerably, as 5e needs a bit more HP bloat calculated in.
Reminds me of several fora conversations I've had saying you could easily parse down 5e to a barebones chassis. Clipping most of the ASI levels and Archetype feature levels quickly gets you to around 10 lvls of the core stuff. I am glad to see someone was listening in and decided to put out a simpler "OSRed" 5e core! :)
Their example conversion of a 5e monster (Mimic) turns the 5e 9d8+18 into 7d8.
Quote
Hit Points always have to be simplified and we need to figure out a Hit Dice. Again using the S&W online SRD, the mimic in that has 7 HD. OSR uses a d8 HD, and checking the 5e ability scores, mimic's have a CON of 15 for a +2. So Hit Points 45 (7d8+14) with Hit Dice 7.
The 5e stat block lists the mimic having a speed of 15 ft, so that is Slow. Speed Slow.
Next up is the Proficiency Bonus. Using the table on page 103 a 7HD monster has a Prof. Bonus of +3, so Prof. Bonus +3.
I'm going to resurrect this thread.
The game has a few new developments. Mainly, that the PDF is now free. Im not sure if it was before, but it sounds like it wasn't.
https://fumbletable.com/ (https://fumbletable.com/)
It takes you to their new site, which has a download link in the menu. Or here is a link to their download page. One rulebook, one paired down rulebook for just players, and a character sheet.
https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1OyDASjG8Xf_PCJUjXHdDtIO1sWveZaKx?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1OyDASjG8Xf_PCJUjXHdDtIO1sWveZaKx?usp=sharing)
The "Advanced" version is gone? I think.
Overall, it is a cross between Basic/Expert/0-edition D&D, with a LOT of 5th edition bits as options spread thru the rules.
It looks good to me. At first, it seemed lame with only 4 races and 4 classes, but then the characters can be customized using Feats that seem to be class abilities in other games. IE you can be a fighter and get Rage, typically a Barbarian feature, or Bodyguard, which is a Paladin trick.
Weapons have 5E options like "Versatile" that let you wield it one-handed, or two handed and do more damage.
Wizards get Cantrips, but just two. A crummy ranged attack zap, and a minor telekinesis.
Stuff like that.
I really like it.
I new to this particular set of rules. I have my own question. I think I know the correct answer, but I want another opinion.
Proficiency Bonus. It's found in the XP level up chart on page 22 (note: all four classes use this same chart). Such as having a proficiency bonus of +3 at level five.
In the combat section it goes over the bonuses of a typical attack roll. It doesn't mention the Proficiency Bonus as one of them. Yet, it would seem to me that you absolutely do use it. Each of the four classes lists what they're proficient with. Mages are proficient in Daggers and Staff weapons.
If I am right, when a level-5 Magic User attacks a goblin with his staff, he will get a +3 to add to his to-hit roll in addition to his strength modifier (if any, and let's assume STR is 10, so none).
Right?
Otherwise, why does it call it a Proficiency, and how would a level-12 fighter do better than a level-1?
Like I said, I'm sure I'm right, but the rules do not seem to say this explicitly.
**************
Edit: The rule has been found on page 47.
QuoteYour race, class, and feats can grant you proficiency with certain weapons or categories of weapons.
Proficiency with a weapon allows you to add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll for any attack you make with that weapon. If you make an attack roll using a weapon with which you lack proficiency, you do not add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll.
The answer is (likely) yes. Proficiency applies if you are proficient with a certain weapon.
EDIT: I gave the game a read, and it is as good as any O5R game, probably above-average considering it is free. I might choose it over 5e, TBH, with some house rules (e.g., the DCs seem to make things to easy for harder DCs). It could be even shorter but that is up to taste, I guess.
The only baffling thing is the monster conversion stuff; I'm not sure I'd choose a game that requires monster conversion when using 5e OR TSR modules. So you basically cannot run any module without some conversion.
And the whole thing seems a bit redundant and strange:
Titan, 19 HD
Gargantuan giant
HP 237 (19d8+152) Hit Dice 19
Prof. +7
Challenge 19 (2,200XP)
Not only is the 19 HD repeated four times, the whole thing is repeated six times for Titans with 17, 18, 20, 21 and 22 HD in the same page. Other monsters (goblin) get nerfed from 5e, which makes sense if you're going for heroic games (PCs get nerfed too, but not as much).
Apparently monsters use only HD to attack not abilities and proficiency, but they still need them.
Anyway, other than monsters, I really like how this game looks. The feats are good, classes, etc. A few rough edges but a great basis.
Olde Swords Reign looks good. Its in that space between D&D 5e and full OSR games. Castles & Crusades is in this space, as is Shadowdark. And also Dungeon Dwellers, the new game coming out from the Reaper Miniatures gang, which has a Kickstarter going on right now: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/reaperddrpg/reaper-miniatures-dungeon-dwellers-roleplaying-game
Olde Swords Reign is much cheaper than the others though. Its free in PDF, and dirt cheap in print on Amazon. And the creator seems like a good guy. He's got a YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@fumbletable
Its a game I want to try at my table sometime soon, instead of running 5e.
Quote from: Crusader X on November 01, 2023, 11:22:08 PM
Olde Swords Reign looks good. Its in that space between D&D 5e and full OSR games. Castles & Crusades is in this space, as is Shadowdark. And also Dungeon Dwellers, the new game coming out from the Reaper Miniatures gang, which has a Kickstarter going on right now: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/reaperddrpg/reaper-miniatures-dungeon-dwellers-roleplaying-game
Olde Swords Reign is much cheaper than the others though. Its free in PDF, and dirt cheap in print on Amazon. And the creator seems like a good guy. He's got a YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@fumbletable
Its a game I want to try at my table sometime soon, instead of running 5e.
I saw him online as well. Both on channels I like, and his own channel. I've been all over Olde Swords Reign this past week, and it might be my new favorite OSR/d20 style game now.
I like it because of the feat customization. I was going to write it off because of the limited 4x4 races and classes combo that minimalist games have. If I can't play a Paladin, then it needs an expansion book, or I'll pass. Then I saw the feats chapter, and it suddenly dawned on me that this game is highly customizable. A Paladin is just a fighter with the right feats. So is a Bard, which is an "expert" class with the right feats.
I'm sold. In fact, as you mentioned the dead tree books are cheap as well, so for $7 each I ordered two softcovers full games off Amazon. That's not a lot more than the Basic Fantasy RPG at $5 for a softcover.
And the 5E elements grafted onto a 0E white-box game are selling points for me as well, like weapon characteristics, IE versatile swords that can be DEX or STR based weapons, or using a hand and a half sword, which does a bit more damage when used in both hands.
Guys, this game is a good one. I recommend it.
Am I wrong to think that he's rewriting the book right now, and that the new version won't have set Classes but rather allow you to customize a unique a unique character from a list of options/feats? That's not a deal breaker for me, but I'm reluctant to get involved in a game right as it's going through a major revision.
Quote from: rkhigdon on November 03, 2023, 01:08:02 PM
Am I wrong to think that he's rewriting the book right now, and that the new version won't have set Classes but rather allow you to customize a unique a unique character from a list of options/feats? That's not a deal breaker for me, but I'm reluctant to get involved in a game right as it's going through a major revision.
I'm not so sure.
First, any new version never invalidates an old version. Sometimes the newest version is terrible. I still prefer Palladium Fantasy 1E over 2E, and damn near everybody says Star Wars D6 rules 1E is better than 2E, and 2E revised for example.
Second, the game seems to have a new owner/writer. Things like the Advanced version are gone. You can still see listings on Amazon, but they're sold out. On the Olde Swords Reign site there is only the normal version in PDF form, plus the trimmed down Player Handbook. If a 2nd edition is coming, I've not heard of it.
Quote from: rkhigdon on November 03, 2023, 01:08:02 PM
Am I wrong to think that he's rewriting the book right now, and that the new version won't have set Classes but rather allow you to customize a unique a unique character from a list of options/feats? That's not a deal breaker for me, but I'm reluctant to get involved in a game right as it's going through a major revision.
Here is what Damien posted on his forum:
The purpose of the new release is to remove/rewrite all content that leans on the OGL. The aim is for the game to be exactly the same in play but just a little clearer and be able to be released under a Creative Commons share license.
I am planning on updating the monster stat block to a new format as well. The monsters won't change just the layout and their descriptions.So I'm pretty sure he's still sticking with 4 classes, with PCs still being customizable with Feats. The re-write is mainly an OGL thing, and to clean a few other things up a bit. But he doesn't seem to have any major revisions planned. And he said the current books will still be perfectly usable.
Quote from: Crusader X on November 03, 2023, 04:40:16 PM
Here is what Damien posted on his forum:
The purpose of the new release is to remove/rewrite all content that leans on the OGL. The aim is for the game to be exactly the same in play but just a little clearer and be able to be released under a Creative Commons share license.
I am planning on updating the monster stat block to a new format as well. The monsters won't change just the layout and their descriptions.
So I'm pretty sure he's still sticking with 4 classes, with PCs still being customizable with Feats. The re-write is mainly an OGL thing, and to clean a few other things up a bit. But he doesn't seem to have any major revisions planned. And he said the current books will still be perfectly usable.
There is a video I just watched by Damien on his Fumble Table YouTube channel called "Olde Swords Reign: past, present, future."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp-xmyT9y00 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp-xmyT9y00)
Advanced OSR was the original written by his friend, Scott Myers. It had a dozen classes like many D&D Heartbreakers. Then Damien took over and re-wrote it to be just four core classes, but very customizable with his Feat system. That lets you recreate classes like Barbarian or Ranger using certain Feats with a Fighter base. He also made the book physically smaller, and only use black and white art to enable print on demand.
As for the future, as Crusader said, is just to ditch the OGL license. The other products he is thinking of making are expansion material like biome specific books, as well as more Feats, gear, crafting rules, and a better way to convert monsters to his rules.
So, nope, there won't be a 3rd Edition.
Edit: One thing he mentioned I wanted to add. He prices his books to be printed at cost. The PDF is free. This is the same thing that Chris Gonnerman does with Basic Fantasy RPG. Say what you want, but that sort of behavior is hard to argue with. Non-profit gamers.
I asked above about proficiency bonus being used or not used with weapons. The rule I was looking for is on page 47, the Weapon Proficiency paragraph.
The next question I have is the apparent lack of ability score requirements for the four classes. This is of particular importance to magic casters because their ability score modifier + level is how many spells they can memorize each day (spell slots are not affected, just how many different spells go in those slots).
A worst case scenario is a cleric with Wisdom of 3, aka a -4 modifier. That cleric can't even memorize a spell until they're level 5, and then it's just one spell. That cleric will have seven spell slots, so the cleric can cast a level 1 spell seven times, but if the cleric memorizes a level 3 spell, then that spell won't fit in a lower slots. The spell can only be cast twice, and the level 2 & 1 slots will be empty.
The fix is easy. Just don't play a caster if you have a low stat. I'm just saying that rules-as-written won't stop you.
What's the game like in Actual Play?
What does it do at the table that other OSR games do not?
What is my at the table incentive for giving the author money?
Quote from: Spinachcat on November 04, 2023, 06:22:59 PM
What's the game like in Actual Play?
What does it do at the table that other OSR games do not?
What is my at the table incentive for giving the author money?
1. It is free, and books are sold at cost. Also, the main book has all you need. None of this triple book nonsense, which is a cash grab to some people.
2. Rogues (called Experts here), and Fighters are customizable. You're not going to be a cookie cutter fighter like the guy next to you. Even wizards and clerics can be customized.
3. Or not. Sounds weird, right? I'll explain. It seems half of the rulebook chapters have the word "Optional" tacked in front of it. So, you can go old school and have a White Box/0-edition D&D experience. But, this bit sets it apart. Most of those options come from 5E D&D. You can play it how you like. Hell, the last section is called House Rules, and it's a blank page for you to write in you're own bits.
4. It's modernized. Ascending armor class. Single saving throw number. A proficiency bonus number that is used a lot of places, like your savings throw I just mentioned. Weapon traits from 5E like Versatile and Light. Simplified ranges like melee, near, & far, simplified skill target numbers like easy, average, & hard. Backgrounds instead of skills so a former blacksmith can use the proficiency bonus (I told you that number is versatile) to repair a bit of armor on a "hard" difficulty check, but your noble background means you don't get that bonus.
Here's a link to a video from Damien from a few weeks ago. He talks about the 3rd edition of the game. The main takeaway is the new version will have more monsters, magic items, feats, and backgrounds. The Cleric class will be tweaked a bit so a player can easily create a Druid. And he might end up separating the rule book into 2 rule books (GM book and Player's book) due to the increased page count.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8IReYA7PMc
Thread bump. The author of Olde Swords Reign stated on his Discord this week that there will not be a new version of the game. Real-life got in the way of game design, and he is no longer working on creating a new edition.
Which is unfortunate. Olde Swords Reign is a good game as it is, but there are a few places where it could use some polish. The current version is still free to download, and its worth checking out.