A friend of mine (one of the publishers of Dog Soul Publishing) is being harrassed by Gareth Skarka. He's apparently threatened legal action. If you want to read about it, check it out here (http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/showthread.php?t=4373).
She's pretty shaken up by the whole thing. Skarka seems like a real dick and I was wondering if anyone else has had any dealings with him and if he's just a blowhard.
I checked out the thread , and have this to say:
1) GMSkarka is capable of being, on a regular basis, an ass of epic proportions. This is one of those occasions.
2) Your friend stepped out of line the moment she posted emails from him on a public message board.
There's enough bad behavior all around on this one that I don't feel bad for either party.
Quote from: EnkhiduI checked out the thread , and have this to say:
1) GMSkarka is capable of being, on a regular basis, an ass of epic proportions. This is one of those occasions.
2) Your friend stepped out of line the moment she posted emails from him on a public message board.
There's enough bad behavior all around on this one that I don't feel bad for either party.
I agree she stepped over the line but I was curious about the "legal action" part and if he's been known to back things like that up.
Quote from: revealI agree she stepped over the line
Yeah, she did.
Quotebut I was curious about the "legal action" part
She should get legal representation.
Quoteand if he's been known to back things like that up.
Does past history really matter? She could be the first.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David RShe should get legal representation.
One thing I failed to mention is that they had no signed contract or NDA with Skarka. Should she still get legal representation?
Okay, I hope I don't come off as rude, but, here's the thing. You posted a link to a thread, which showed your friend going on a rant and engaging in behaviour which may have crossed some ethical/legal line.
Now I don't know how the industry operates. In most other sectors of the corporate world, a business would normaly have legal representation or at the very least have access to such services.
When I suggested that she get legal rep, it was more in the "this ain't our/your business" kind of way, and certainly my view is that posting something like this on a public forum does not help your friend in any way.
Getting legal representation is a common business practice as a safeguard to situations your friend seems to have gotten herself into.
On a personal note, when you post a link to a thread, where most of the posters take a collective dump on another poster and then get worried when one of them is threatened with legal action, well that tells me a lot about the maturity of the posters and the professionalism of the one in the gunsights of a potential lawsuit.
Regards,
David R
I scanned the thread briefly and pretty much no one looked good in it. Public airing of dirty laundry makes both sides look like asses. The best thing to do is to walk away and forget it unless he actually does sue - why waste expensive lawyer fees on a small possibility?
Unless there's a previous agreement, publishing emails isn't illegal but it is sleazy.
Quote from: David ROn a personal note, when you post a link to a thread, where most of the posters take a collective dump on another poster and then get worried when one of them is threatened with legal action, well that tells me a lot about the maturity of the posters and the professionalism of the one in the gunsights of a potential lawsuit.
Regards,
David R
Eh, I'm not worried about legal action and neither is anyone else except for the publishers. But even they've calmed down by now. As for the "collective dump," of course we did because a friend of ours was threatened. :)
Quote from: NicephorusI scanned the thread briefly and pretty much no one looked good in it. Public airing of dirty laundry makes both sides look like asses. The best thing to do is to walk away and forget it unless he actually does sue - why waste expensive lawyer fees on a small possibility?
Unless there's a previous agreement, publishing emails isn't illegal but it is sleazy.
That's pretty much how I felt but I figured someone else would know better than I do. :)
The management of Nutkinland hereby refuses to have an opinion on any aspect of this sordid little affair. :p
Though it does personally amuse me to see the little monkeys dance. Dance, monkeys, dance! :deviousgrin:
Quote from: revealEh, I'm not worried about legal action and neither is anyone else except for the publishers. But even they've calmed down by now. As for the "collective dump," of course we did because a friend of ours was threatened. :)
Which didn't help, and probably exacerbated the situation by making him angrier and more defensive. So it was worse than useless to dogpile the guy if you wanted to "help" her. I actually would've been interested in seeing how it played out between just the two of them. It's unethical to post the content of emails without consent, but on the other hand, I can understand the frustration of trying to get the attention of someone who owes money and is avoiding my attempts to communicate.
All this for 90 bucks? Wow. Welcome to the world of shitty pdf rpgs I guess. Does anyone actually make 90 bucks on these things?
Quote from: AcinonyxAll this for 90 bucks? Wow. Welcome to the world of shitty pdf rpgs I guess. Does anyone actually make 90 bucks on these things?
You have to remember the Mearls Rule of Low Stakes: the lower the stakes in the game, the more viscious the infighting gets. And you don't get much lower stakes than RPG PDFs.
If it was even less money -- say 40$ -- she probably would have hoped a plane and shot him by now. :heh:
Quote from: revealSkarka seems like a real dick and I was wondering if anyone else has had any dealings with him and if he's just a blowhard.
He's been a "real dick" and a "blowhard" for as long as I've been aware of him.
He's managted to piss off people who I thought weren't subject to "whiny Nonsense"
Miracle of Miracles, it always--in Skarka's opinion--is someone else's fault.
Reminds me of this poster...
(http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/dysfunction.jpg)
I only have two guys on my "Do Not Purchase" list.
He's one.
reveal - with friends like that girl who started that other thread you linked to, you don't need enemies....
I read the whole thread. And what I got out of it was that the snippet of email from GMS that she quoted in post #13 was very close to the mark with the description GMS gives of her.
Her actions in that entire thread appear to prove that description true. She isn't mad about the payment being late. She is mad because of what GMS said to her (quoted in post #13) because she had been badgering him (at least that is the impersssion that I am getting from that quoted bit in post #13, and in the other post where she shows snippets of at least half a dozen more emails (all of which apparently were sent in a relatively short time span maybe a week or two at most).
Simply put, even though GMS may be a right bastard at times, she was looking to start trouble for him with that thread, and she was looking to do so because of a perceived personal slight, not because of a payment issue (which he apparently promised to pay this month and which she accepted, and said payment date has not yet even been reached).
Sorry, but I cannot have any sympathy for a person who has to play those sorts of emotion/mind games with people. And that is exactly what she was doing there. GMS may be a bit of a bastard, but at least he is straightforward about it.
Wow. I just went back and read that whole thing. Shit man, I feel a lot better about our dumbasses at NTL now. What a screaming bunch of twits. Reveal, wtf man, I hope you're banging that chick because you sure as hell come off like you want to.
That thread can be summed up perfectly by the 'arguing on the interent' macro. No wonder I don't take pdf products seriously.
Quote from: AcinonyxWow. I just went back and read that whole thing. Shit man, I feel a lot better about our dumbasses at NTL now. What a screaming bunch of twits. Reveal, wtf man, I hope you're banging that chick because you sure as hell come off like you want to.
That thread can be summed up perfectly by the 'arguing on the interent' macro. No wonder I don't take pdf products seriously.
I guess it's not ok to defend friends? :shrug:
Quote from: revealI guess it's not ok to defend friends? :shrug:
No it certainly is not!
Not if your friend loses their cool with someone who is not only an asshole, but is
weel known for admittedly and consistently being one.
Never lash back at them. It looks "unprofessional" :snotty:
Quote from: revealI guess it's not ok to defend friends? :shrug:
Sure it's okay.
On a related subject,there were many ways you could have posted about your friend's situation on this forum. None of which would have involved naming Skarka. The fact that you did, tells me, that you hope that this thread will be an extension of the link you posted, where everyone comes out and goes on about that baddie Skarka - which really does not bother me. But if this was really your motive, I would have prefered, if you were upfront about it.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: Teflon BillyNever lash back at them. It looks "unprofessional" :snotty:
Good thing I'm not a professional. :p
Quote from: David RSure it's okay.
On a related subject,there were many ways you could have posted about your friend's situation on this forum. None of which would have involved naming Skarka. The fact that you did, tells me, that you hope that this thread will be an extension of the link you posted, where everyone comes out and goes on about that baddie Skarka - which really does not bother me. But if this was really your motive, I would have prefered, if you were upfront about it.
Regards,
David R
That was never my intention. My intentions were as stated previously. I wanted to know if he was actually worth worrying about. I am not "in the business" and thought I'd ask of those who know more than I do. :)
Quote from: revealThat was never my intention. My intentions were as stated previously. I wanted to know if he was actually worth worrying about. I am not "in the business" and thought I'd ask of those who know more than I do. :)
My mistake. I apologize.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David RMy mistake. I apologize.
Regards,
David R
No biggie. I can definitely understand if people thought this was me cross-posting to try to bash Skarka. I've seen people do it plenty of times. :)
Quote from: revealA friend of mine (one of the publishers of Dog Soul Publishing) is being harrassed by Gareth Skarka. He's apparently threatened legal action. If you want to read about it, check it out here (http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/showthread.php?t=4373).
She's pretty shaken up by the whole thing. Skarka seems like a real dick and I was wondering if anyone else has had any dealings with him and if he's just a blowhard.
No, your friend is not. Your friend did not respect the standard of practice in the very industry she was working within, where balances are resolved on the 15th of the month. This is one of those things anyone doing busines with an RPGNow client, much less anyone who is themselves an RPGNow client, ought to know.
And the tragic thing here is that, thanks to this nonsense, your "friend" has actually destroyed the possibility of starting up a partnership with and getting cross-promotion from a publisher who runs his business smartly and is genuinely interesred in cultivating talent. Having Gareth Michael Skarka as my client (and for context, as someone I originally didn't care for as a result of the superficialities being bandied about here and elsewhere) has earned me as much money or more as my work for major print clients because he's honest and professional in his dealings with me.
Quote from: AcinonyxAll this for 90 bucks? Wow. Welcome to the world of shitty pdf rpgs I guess. Does anyone actually make 90 bucks on these things?
If they're smart? Yes. I've made several thousand dollars from my .pdf work.
I can't speak for people who aren't as smart.
Someone in that other thread compared him to Randy Richards.
I don't think it gets any worse than that.
Quote from: shooting_diceNo, your friend is not. Your friend did not respect the standard of practice in the very industry she was working within, where balances are resolved on the 15th of the month. This is one of those things anyone doing busines with an RPGNow client, much less anyone who is themselves an RPGNow client, ought to know.
How do you know this? Did Skarka tell you? Because I have to assume either that or you're making up numbers to fit a predisposed notion of my friend.
Quote from: revealI guess it's not ok to defend friends? :shrug:
I guess it depends on how badly you want your friend to look like an unproffessional house wife with too much time on her hands. Congrats, you succeeded.
Quote from: revealHow do you know this? Did Skarka tell you? Because I have to assume either that or you're making up numbers to fit a predisposed notion of my friend.
The 15th is the standard date for resolving financials on RPGNow (i.e. when RPGNow pays the publishers). Any publisher dealing with RPGNow would know this. Any creative who worked closely with a publisher would likely also know this.
I think that is the point that he is trying to get across....
Those are number that CAN be verified, by anybody who has an account over there.
She posted that rant just a couple of days ago. In that bit of an email from GMS in post #13, he says that she will be paid next week. If he sent that email the day she posted the rant (which is what I think is the case - she posted the rant because of the description that GMS posted in his email to her - it was the trigger event) or the day before even, then that would match up, since the 15th is next Thursday.
I just went back to that thread you linked to and read the new posts, and all I can really say is OMFG!! What a load of manure!!
Not only is that original poster upset over GMS calling her what he called her in a private email that he sent her, and that she posted in post #13 of that thread, but she is being very very manipulative. For example in post #65, she says:
Quote from: LitlbeastI read it. Threatening my company is a horrible thing to do. I'm not going to respond to you anymore, Gareth, and if we do have to hire a lawyer, we will.
GMS didn't post after that, so we don't have his side of the situation. He tried to take things private again, but she made that post, which implies that GMS threatened her comany. What was the threat? That he would tell how she badgered him for money, and then played the drama queen on a message board to feed her pathalogical need to be seen as right. How she made her husband apologize publicly (his first post in the thread no less) for an argument that they had in private?
I have seen many other who act like this. Nothing is ever their fault, they are always the victim.
And remember, that thread you linked to is NOT about money. It is about her publicly bashing GMS because he insulted her in a private email. That simple. She had to get even by upping the ante and making this into something public where "GMS is victimizing her" (and no, I don't think he did).
Hell, she even has her husband doing it. With his talk about "if we disappear, you will know what happened" crap. If they disappear from RPGNow, it is likely because they screwed up, not because GMS had anything to do with it. But yet, he had to sow the seeds that would cause anybody who read that thread to blame GMS if they just disappears (even if it was of their own volition).
Like I said before - with friends like that lady, you don't need enemies...
When I read this thread, and the one you linked to, I thought that I was going to give just an unbiased viewpoint (as I know neither party personally, and only know GMS by his rep as being a bastard), and here I am ending up defending GMS (very very odd feeling) because in this instance, I happen to think that the supposed "victim" is the one doing the victimizing.
Sigh.... enough from me for a while I think...
Quote from: AcinonyxI guess it depends on how badly you want your friend to look like an unproffessional house wife with too much time on her hands. Congrats, you succeeded.
You really are Mr. Cranky Pants(tm) aren't you? Your opinion has been noted.
Quote from: RasyrThe 15th is the standard date for resolving financials on RPGNow (i.e. when RPGNow pays the publishers). Any publisher dealing with RPGNow would know this. Any creative who worked closely with a publisher would likely also know this.
I think that is the point that he is trying to get across....
Those are number that CAN be verified, by anybody who has an account over there.
She posted that rant just a couple of days ago. In that bit of an email from GMS in post #13, he says that she will be paid next week. If he sent that email the day she posted the rant (which is what I think is the case - she posted the rant because of the description that GMS posted in his email to her - it was the trigger event) or the day before even, then that would match up, since the 15th is next Thursday.
If we were talking about next Thursday being the 15th that she will be paid, then I agree with your argument. However, the product in question was released on May 4th, which means they should have been paid on May 15th.
Quote from: Harry JoyThe fact that her husband directed GMSkarka to the thread ...
He did? I must have missed that. :confused:
Quote from: revealYou really are Mr. Cranky Pants(tm) aren't you? Your opinion has been noted.
You can't see how unproffessional posting a rant like that on some piddly little message board is?
Quote from: revealIf we were talking about next Thursday being the 15th that she will be paid, then I agree with your argument. However, the product in question was released on May 4th, which means they should have been paid on May 15th.
Last I knew he was claiming that she didn't invoice him for the work...
Quote from: AcinonyxYou can't see how unproffessional posting a rant like that on some piddly little message board is?
I can see it. But that wasn't why I posted in the first place. My original post asked if she had anything to worry about, not whether or not she was being unprofessional. I was simply looking out for a friend and some posters decided, rather than to answer my question, to tell me how unprofessional she was being.
And the monkeys continue to dance for my amusement! Dance, monkeys, dance! ~claps hands with glee~ :deviousgrin:
:ponder: Now if only we can get all parties to start up a knife fight...
Quote from: GunhildaAnd the monkeys continue to dance for my amusement! Dance, monkeys, dance! ~claps hands with glee~ :deviousgrin:
:ponder: Now if only we can get all parties to start up a knife fight...
(http://images.fishstripes.com/images/admin/rallymonkey.jpg)
:heh:
Quote from: revealI can see it. But that wasn't why I posted in the first place. My original post asked if she had anything to worry about, not whether or not she was being unprofessional. I was simply looking out for a friend and some posters decided, rather than to answer my question, to tell me how unprofessional she was being.
She probably should worry. She looks like she's worse to deal with than Skarka.
Quote from: revealIf we were talking about next Thursday being the 15th that she will be paid, then I agree with your argument. However, the product in question was released on May 4th, which means they should have been paid on May 15th.
But we don't know what was said. GMS could have meant to pay them once one complete payment cycle had completed, but we have no idea how he phrased it to them.
The point is that even if it was a misunderstanding, she automatically assumed that her interpretation was correct (as seen in her chiding him for being late for the payment and not notifying them about it).
Now somebody said that GMS has said that he was waiting to be invoiced (another common occurance in the industry, especially with artists), and that could also explain why they did not receive payment on May 15th.
However, that also makes her look worse, as she states in her first post that she has been trying to get paid for over a month, and if she was expecting to be paid on May 15th, that says that she is lying since June 15th hasn't arrived yet. That would also mean that she barraged him with emails between the 15th of May and June 7th when she posted... about 3 weeks worth of time...
The more I look at this, the worse she is ending up looking.....
Y'know, for all the talk about how wrong LB was for airing the issue, certain people don't seem to mind discussing it nonetheless.
Quote from: Caesar SlaadY'know, for all the talk about how wrong LB was for airing the issue, certain people don't seem to mind discussing it nonetheless.
You noticed that too, eh? :mischief:
I just wish I could access the stinking thread. Seems it's been moved to somewhere I'm not allowed.:(
Quote from: PSMI just wish I could access the stinking thread. Seems it's been moved to somewhere I'm not allowed.:(
It looks like it was taken down. I assume it was becoming more than it originally was intended (i.e. very personal) but that's just me assuming and you know what that means. ;)
Quote from: PSMI just wish I could access the stinking thread. Seems it's been moved to somewhere I'm not allowed.:(
Sorry. That was my doing. The thread, while not deleted, is gone. It was causing more harm than anything, and what with the impending Trial of the Century, I decided it best to hide the thread.
It was, incidentally, completely MY idea and decision to do it.
:( Always late for the drama.
Quote from: Caesar SlaadY'know, for all the talk about how wrong LB was for airing the issue, certain people don't seem to mind discussing it nonetheless.
Airing what issue? What issue do you think she was actually airing?
Quote from: RasyrAiring what issue? What issue do you think she was actually airing?
I want to straight up answer the question here, but it seems too obvious. The dispute between herself and GMS. The one you were chattering about in post #14.
Either there's some subtext in the above quoted statement I am missing, or there is some some subtext in the post you think are responding to that's not there.
Goddammit. Missed all the fun.
Quote from: ScarbonacGoddammit. Missed all the fun.
The gaming industry is like a highway. Drive long enough, and you'll eventually see another wreck on the side of the road.
Hang in there!
Quote from: Caesar SlaadI want to straight up answer the question here, but it seems too obvious. The dispute between herself and GMS. The one you were chattering about in post #14.
Either there's some subtext in the above quoted statement I am missing, or there is some some subtext in the post you think are responding to that's not there.
No, was just asking for clarification on what you meant. As reveal seemed to think it was about her not getting paid when she thought, and I was thinking about something else.
:)
And for the record, I am not in the least upset or miffed that she is airing the "dispute", only how she did it....
Quote from: mearlsThe gaming industry is like a highway. Drive long enough, and you'll eventually see another wreck on the side of the road.
Hang in there!
Well Mike, given the low end choice (squabbles about small amounts of money and small niches) and the high end option (a hubris-laden party line that gets rewarded with sudden layoffs), I'm not really sure which one I prefer.
Quote from: GunhildaAnd the monkeys continue to dance for my amusement! Dance, monkeys, dance! ~claps hands with glee~ :deviousgrin:
:ponder: Now if only we can get all parties to start up a knife fight...
But to combine the monkeys and knife fighting, we would have to go out into international waters...
Quote from: shooting_diceWell Mike, given the low end choice (squabbles about small amounts of money and small niches) and the high end option (a hubris-laden party line that gets rewarded with sudden layoffs), I'm not really sure which one I prefer.
But there's so much more drama associated with the small ones! This comes down to one company being unable to cough up $90 to J. Random Freelancer. That's what triggers ranting scream fests and, hence, entertainment.
Word is, the thread has been "moved to a safe place". Which is a shame; I really wanted to find out how many publishers it took to screw in a lightbulb.
Quote from: mearlsBut there's so much more drama associated with the small ones! This comes down to one company being unable to cough up $90 to J. Random Freelancer. That's what triggers ranting scream fests and, hence, entertainment.
Now I want to make an alt ID of J. Random Freelancer. :heh:
Maybe I will when I get home. I just need to find a pic of the comic shop owner from the Simpsons. :heh:
Quote from: revealIf we were talking about next Thursday being the 15th that she will be paid, then I agree with your argument. However, the product in question was released on May 4th, which means they should have been paid on May 15th.
Sorry, Bro, that isn't how it works.
See, the 15th of the month is when the PREVIOUS months earning are paid out.
This is much like the way you are paid on Monday or Tuesday for work you did the week before.
If it was released on May 4th, her first payday would be June 15th.
She can either learn to deal with it, or do her own fucking shit.
It's that goddamn simple.
Damn, that's more than I've typed in about 4 days. YAY FOR OXYCOTTON! I can work again!
Welcome back, boss!
Quote from: mearlsBut there's so much more drama associated with the small ones!.
I dunno, a couple of ex-WotC continue to make snarky comments whenever possible, years down the line. :) Perhaps the smaller companies have bright flameouts while the larger ones breed seething contempt and ill-will that lasts a lifetime. :)
Quote from: T-Willard]
Damn, that's more than I've typed in about 4 days. YAY FOR OXYCOTTON! I can work again!
Nice to see you back bro:)
So is this thread going to become a thread about pretentious asshats on another forum that has a thread with a bunch of pretentious asshats talking about pretentious asshats on another forum?
Just wondering, I need to know how I want to join in on the fun...
Quote from: T-WillardDamn, that's more than I've typed in about 4 days. YAY FOR OXYCOTTON! I can work again!
(http://yodarken.css-clan.de/yay.gif)
Quote from: Ragnarok N RollSo is this thread going to become a thread about pretentious asshats on another forum that has a thread with a bunch of pretentious asshats talking about pretentious asshats on another forum?
Just wondering, I need to know how I want to join in on the fun...
You ask that like as if it's even remotely unlikely or surprising. :)
Quote from: mearlsThe gaming industry is like a highway. Drive long enough, and you'll eventually see another wreck on the side of the road.
That's sig-worthy.
On a personal note, I think GMS is a solid guy from my personal dealings with him, even if we went a few rounds here and there before.
-mahubrahd