TheRPGSite

So apparently this is a samurai game, based on Mork Borg, which I've never played or had much interest in.  Anyone seen or played it?

https://www.slightlyrecklessgames.com/ronin

Looked at the lite version and stopped when I saw this in the credits:

"EDITING/SENSITIVITY READING Sachiko Suzuki"

It's woke.

I have the game, I got it when I was tooling up to start developing my ninja game.

It's a re-flavored Mork Borg and not even a particularly good one.  Nobunaga's Black Castle is a better Japanese flavored Mork Bork if you're willing to work on translating it from Japanese.

Ghostninja is right, there's a whole thing in the full copy admonishing white guys for cultural appropriation.

Thanks for the warnings.  I'll dodge that arrow.

Chanbara and Kogarashi are the two Samurai games I recommend. 

Chanbara is traditional D20 D&D rules with armor class, six stats, and spell slots that you prepare in the morning and forget after casting. However, you do get access to two class specific special abilities every 3rd level, pick one, and customize your PC that way. 

Chanbara also has a secondary attack bonus using your other stats vs a second armor class that is also based on lesser used stats.  These are your non-damage based combat options like tripping, disarming, taunting, etc.  This seems to be a way to eliminate useless dump stats. 

Chanbara is supposed to only be humans, but a small optional rule in the back allows for four non-human races.  There are 11 classes. 

Kogarashi uses just 1D6, roll equal or under a stat.  Armor is a saving throw that reduces damage received.  All classes have a list of 20 skills, special moves, and spells that are skill checks to activate.  Again, roll equal or under a 1-4 stat to do so. 

There are 4 or 14 races depending how you separate them.  2 races have 6 variants each.  There are only six classes. 

Again, these two games are what I recommend anybody interested in Japanese themed fantasy. 

Got it; I'll just stick with my AD&D Oriental Adventures & C&C Codex Sinarum books.

Greetings!

Ahh, that is so sad to hear. I have the original Mork Borg book, and it seemed like a normal, Dark Metal RPG with some pretty evocative art, some interesting rules, and overall a pretty awesome "Vibe." I don't recall any proclamations of being Woke. Professor DM did a video on Mork Borg, and recommended it as well.

So, it seems that as the Mork Borg people have grown and prospered, they have increasingly been corrupted by the Woke. Now we hear that the Japanese Mork Borg is Woke. I keep seeing advertisements for a Viking Mork Borg. However, seeing that they are gulping down the fucking Woke jello, I would have been potentially interested in buying more--but definitely not now. They can get fucked!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Some clarification, Shark.  Ronin is NOT published by Free League but by Slightly Reckless Games under an open license.

Free League isn't green but they shouldn't take any guilt that isn't theirs. 

Quote from: BadApple on July 13, 2024, 06:40:33 PMSome clarification, Shark.  Ronin is NOT published by Free League but by Slightly Reckless Games under an open license.

Free League isn't green but they shouldn't take any guilt that isn't theirs. 

Greetings!

*Laughing* Well, yes, thank you, BadApple! That's good to know. I wasn't aware there were multiple people publishing game stuff for Mork Borg.

So, yeah. Fuck RONIN, then.

Free League is still innocent. Like you said, they aren't on the Green List, so they need to be watched. As my Mork Borg book, yeah. I didn't see anything Woke in it, it is interesting, fun, evocative, and creative. I recommended the book to several friends that I know DM games such as D&D. Mork Borg is certainly interesting and inspiring to look at and read, even if you never play the game. I told several friends of mine, "No, I probably won't run a game of Mork Borg, but for inspiration, ideas, and such, it is a cool book. I'm glad I bought it, and I recommend it as well, even just for that."

I hope that Free League stays out of the Woke cesspool, and resists. They no doubt have some people encouraging them to jump into the Woke cesspool, unfortunately.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on July 13, 2024, 08:23:11 PM

Quote from: BadApple on July 13, 2024, 06:40:33 PMSome clarification, Shark.  Ronin is NOT published by Free League but by Slightly Reckless Games under an open license.

Free League isn't green but they shouldn't take any guilt that isn't theirs. 

Greetings!

*Laughing* Well, yes, thank you, BadApple! That's good to know. I wasn't aware there were multiple people publishing game stuff for Mork Borg.

So, yeah. Fuck RONIN, then.

Free League is still innocent. Like you said, they aren't on the Green List, so they need to be watched. As my Mork Borg book, yeah. I didn't see anything Woke in it, it is interesting, fun, evocative, and creative. I recommended the book to several friends that I know DM games such as D&D. Mork Borg is certainly interesting and inspiring to look at and read, even if you never play the game. I told several friends of mine, "No, I probably won't run a game of Mork Borg, but for inspiration, ideas, and such, it is a cool book. I'm glad I bought it, and I recommend it as well, even just for that."

I hope that Free League stays out of the Woke cesspool, and resists. They no doubt have some people encouraging them to jump into the Woke cesspool, unfortunately.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Free League definitely leans left and stay off their forums for sure, but there are worse offenders out there. 
That Norse game being advertised is by the same people who made this Ronin game.  Not sure if there's a sensitivity reader this time.

The final day of the kickstarter for Ronin, they sent an update that included the following text:

"At Slightly Reckless Games, we are committed to making Rōnin an inclusive game for everyone. We firmly believe in creating a safe and welcoming space for all players. Our game will not include or tolerate homophobia, racism, transphobia, or sexism. We believe in the power of diversity and inclusivity, and we're dedicated to ensuring Rōnin reflects these values."

This message was accompanied by a screen shot from the book reading:

"Sexists, Racists, Homophobes and Transphobes, put this down and FUCK OFF."

This message wasn't provoked by anything that happened in the kickstarter or by anything else as near as I can tell.

Quote from: dungeonmonkey on July 14, 2024, 05:41:41 PMThe final day of the kickstarter for Ronin, they sent an update that included the following text:

"At Slightly Reckless Games, we are committed to making Rōnin an inclusive game for everyone. We firmly believe in creating a safe and welcoming space for all players. Our game will not include or tolerate homophobia, racism, transphobia, or sexism. We believe in the power of diversity and inclusivity, and we're dedicated to ensuring Rōnin reflects these values."

This message was accompanied by a screen shot from the book reading:

"Sexists, Racists, Homophobes and Transphobes, put this down and FUCK OFF."

This message wasn't provoked by anything that happened in the kickstarter or by anything else as near as I can tell.

So clearly they had been waiting to do that- their own internal hatred sitting there brewing- but they had the business sense to wait until all the orders were in.
It's really surprising, even after all this time, to see how this mind virus works.

Quote from: dungeonmonkey on July 14, 2024, 05:41:41 PM"Sexists, Racists, Homophobes and Transphobes, put this down and FUCK OFF."

Signal that virtue! lool

I'm so sick of games with this first world baby politics.

So, if I make a historically accurate Sengoku era setting with patrilineal families and nobility, or even forbade female samurai, then I'm a bad person instead of correct to the setting.

Half the fun is working with real restrictions.  Things like nobody but Samurai can openly carry weapons, especially the Daisho set (Katana + Wakizashi). 

Or, women can't be warriors, normally.  Exceptions do exist, but those women are VERY noticeable exceptions.

There is nothing wrong with having a game setting like this. 

Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 15, 2024, 09:47:54 PMSo, if I make a historically accurate Sengoku era setting with patrilineal families and nobility, or even forbade female samurai, then I'm a bad person instead of correct to the setting.

Half the fun is working with real restrictions.  Things like nobody but Samurai can openly carry weapons, especially the Daisho set (Katana + Wakizashi). 

Or, women can't be warriors, normally.  Exceptions do exist, but those women are VERY noticeable exceptions.

There is nothing wrong with having a game setting like this. 

Completely agree with you on that !

I am a person of faith and have a very specific moral compas. However, there are locations and eras that were dominated by things that are counter or abhorrent to that faith and morality . Plus, like CoC / DG there is literary settings and assumptions that are completely against my faith and morals. However, They all make AMAZING game settings and I have had a blast playing or running games in those settings.

However, to those company types and games, ALL game setting has to adhere to their morality and if it doesn't it has to be changed to something that does, and if you push back you are evil ...
 

Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 15, 2024, 09:47:54 PMSo, if I make a historically accurate Sengoku era setting with patrilineal families and nobility, or even forbade female samurai, then I'm a bad person instead of correct to the setting.

Half the fun is working with real restrictions.  Things like nobody but Samurai can openly carry weapons, especially the Daisho set (Katana + Wakizashi). 

Or, women can't be warriors, normally.  Exceptions do exist, but those women are VERY noticeable exceptions.

There is nothing wrong with having a game setting like this. 

I am currently in the development stage of a game set in Sengoku Japan.  (Specifically focused on shinobi no mono in a more fantastical version of the time and place)  I'm doing a lot of deep dives into the history and culture of the time.  I'm coming away from it with a real understanding that if this game gets any traction I'm going to get tarred as a sexist and fascist.

Fuck it.  It's worthy material and I'm not going to respect the people that my game is about by changing things to the tastes of the "modern audience."

Quote from: BadApple on July 16, 2024, 03:27:04 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 15, 2024, 09:47:54 PMSo, if I make a historically accurate Sengoku era setting with patrilineal families and nobility, or even forbade female samurai, then I'm a bad person instead of correct to the setting.

Half the fun is working with real restrictions.  Things like nobody but Samurai can openly carry weapons, especially the Daisho set (Katana + Wakizashi). 

Or, women can't be warriors, normally.  Exceptions do exist, but those women are VERY noticeable exceptions.

There is nothing wrong with having a game setting like this. 

I am currently in the development stage of a game set in Sengoku Japan.  (Specifically focused on shinobi no mono in a more fantastical version of the time and place)  I'm doing a lot of deep dives into the history and culture of the time.  I'm coming away from it with a real understanding that if this game gets any traction I'm going to get tarred as a sexist and fascist.

Fuck it.  It's worthy material and I'm not going to respect the people that my game is about by changing things to the tastes of the "modern audience."

If you need help with the era, speak with our very own Persimmon. He's the local expert on that stuff. He was kind enough to send my the syllabi he uses when teaching some college courses.

Mind you, he might not be happy with me mentioning that stuff. I am prepared to die on this hill. ;)

Quote from: Jason Coplen on July 16, 2024, 05:23:44 PM

Quote from: BadApple on July 16, 2024, 03:27:04 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 15, 2024, 09:47:54 PMSo, if I make a historically accurate Sengoku era setting with patrilineal families and nobility, or even forbade female samurai, then I'm a bad person instead of correct to the setting.

Half the fun is working with real restrictions.  Things like nobody but Samurai can openly carry weapons, especially the Daisho set (Katana + Wakizashi). 

Or, women can't be warriors, normally.  Exceptions do exist, but those women are VERY noticeable exceptions.

There is nothing wrong with having a game setting like this. 

I am currently in the development stage of a game set in Sengoku Japan.  (Specifically focused on shinobi no mono in a more fantastical version of the time and place)  I'm doing a lot of deep dives into the history and culture of the time.  I'm coming away from it with a real understanding that if this game gets any traction I'm going to get tarred as a sexist and fascist.

Fuck it.  It's worthy material and I'm not going to respect the people that my game is about by changing things to the tastes of the "modern audience."

If you need help with the era, speak with our very own Persimmon. He's the local expert on that stuff. He was kind enough to send my the syllabi he uses when teaching some college courses.

Mind you, he might not be happy with me mentioning that stuff. I am prepared to die on this hill. ;)

Our good man has already reached out to me and provided assistance.  He'll also read through my first completed draft for me as well.

I'm still

Quote from: BadApple on July 16, 2024, 08:22:36 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on July 16, 2024, 05:23:44 PM

Quote from: BadApple on July 16, 2024, 03:27:04 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 15, 2024, 09:47:54 PMSo, if I make a historically accurate Sengoku era setting with patrilineal families and nobility, or even forbade female samurai, then I'm a bad person instead of correct to the setting.

Half the fun is working with real restrictions.  Things like nobody but Samurai can openly carry weapons, especially the Daisho set (Katana + Wakizashi). 

Or, women can't be warriors, normally.  Exceptions do exist, but those women are VERY noticeable exceptions.

There is nothing wrong with having a game setting like this. 

I am currently in the development stage of a game set in Sengoku Japan.  (Specifically focused on shinobi no mono in a more fantastical version of the time and place)  I'm doing a lot of deep dives into the history and culture of the time.  I'm coming away from it with a real understanding that if this game gets any traction I'm going to get tarred as a sexist and fascist.

Fuck it.  It's worthy material and I'm not going to respect the people that my game is about by changing things to the tastes of the "modern audience."

If you need help with the era, speak with our very own Persimmon. He's the local expert on that stuff. He was kind enough to send my the syllabi he uses when teaching some college courses.

Mind you, he might not be happy with me mentioning that stuff. I am prepared to die on this hill. ;)

Our good man has already reached out to me and provided assistance.  He'll also read through my first completed draft for me as well.

I'm still going through the books to be read - it's quite the list, and I've been in a reading dry spell. The prior year or two when I was reading at least 15 books a month wore me out. I've been mapping using inkarnate and slowly tinkering with my setting in place of when I was reading like mad. I'm visually retarded, but I'm slowly figuring this stuff out.

You'll get great advice from the man.

Best of luck with your own game!

My usual game setting for fantasy is that common soldiers and their leaders are nearly always male.  There are female warriors, but they're super rare.

However, I can see female wizards and rogues being commonplace, as well as noblewomen NPC's in charge, and high ranking female clergy NPC's in charge as well (mother superior nun).

I would allow anyone to play any race, gender, and class, but I would let them know that if you play a female knight, you will be the shockingly rare exception.  Something akin to Brienne of Tarth in Game of Thrones, but you CAN play as one.

Quote from: dungeonmonkey on July 14, 2024, 05:41:41 PMThis message was accompanied by a screen shot from the book reading:

"Sexists, Racists, Homophobes and Transphobes, put this down and FUCK OFF."

This message wasn't provoked by anything that happened in the kickstarter or by anything else as near as I can tell.

Aw! Dey so kwute when dey play tuff! Who's a widdle toughie wuffie?

Hey Guys--

Thanks for the shout-out. And sure, I'd be happy to read anything and offer historical pointers if desired.  My main specialty is the military history of Ming-Qing China (1368-1911), but I teach all of Asian history, including a course called "Supernatural Asia." And I've been a consultant for a toy company, a game designer and the "Deadliest Warrior" TV show.  My latest book is just out: https://www.usni.org/press/books/struggle-empire

The Chinese version of my first monograph, on China's response to the Japanese invasion of Korea in 1592, is apparently doing quite well in China.  So that's nice validation.

I appreciate this company of clowns letting us know who they are and why they don't deserve a dime. 

As Ratman said, they are "widdle toughie wuffies"

And they provide even more reason we need a "hobby divorce" between the left and the right. There is no compromise or existing with them.


I still haven't found a reason to abandon L5R 1e if I get the hankering for some chow mein fantasy.

Though, I'm surprised Bushido 1e doesn't get more love. Such an excellent game.

What would you think of a fantasy setting in a Japanese game, but only women can be the Japanese equivalents of Clerics and Wizards?  Shinkan and Onmyoji in my Kogarashi game. 

Hey,

I totally get where you're coming from. As someone who also holds strong personal beliefs, it can be challenging to navigate game settings that clash with those values. Yet, I agree that many of these settings, like Call of Cthulhu or Delta Green, provide incredible storytelling opportunities and immersive gameplay. It's all about finding a balance and enjoying the game for what it is a chance to explore different worlds and narratives. We should respect each other's boundaries and preferences without forcing changes that might dilute the essence of the game. Grzegorz 😁 (https://mazzani.pl/projektant-wnetrz-cennik/)

Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 18, 2024, 09:17:58 AMWhat would you think of a fantasy setting in a Japanese game, but only women can be the Japanese equivalents of Clerics and Wizards?  Shinkan and Onmyoji in my Kogarashi game. 

It's your game, run it how you want to.  I have no issue with your fantasy setting working on mystic gender roles.

That said, there's some actual president to the idea but not quite how you're presenting it.  It parallels the yin and yang philosophy.  There's male magic and female magic.  Onmyoji that I've been able to identify have all been male and all shinkan are as well.  OTOH, miko are all women and have a very important role to play in the mystic aspects of Shinto.  I've come across some references to the idea that certain non religious supernatural practices are only able to be done by women as well.

This is one of the ideas I'm trying to work into my own project.

I was just thinking of having gendered classes as a hypothetical. 

Let the men be big, tough warriors.  Then use magic as the equalizer, so restrict spell casters to women. 

However, this is getting us off topic.  The original question was about a specific game of Mork Borg rewritten to be Japanese. 

I recently went through a Japanese fantasy RPG hunt. 

I ended up settling on Chanbara, but then Kogarashi came into my life.  I switched games to Kogarashi.  I like rules lite, armor as a savings throw, and customizable classes.  Chanbara is rules lite and customizable, but is also traditional Basic D&D based.  Kogarashi is its own system called True D6. 

As for lore, then it might be good to get Bushido or Sengoku.  Both of those games can teach you a lot about Japanese history and culture norms, but I don't like the gameplay of either. 

As for ruling out games based on any morality instructions, I'm of two minds.  Part of me wants to rage and tell off the author for assuming they're morally superior.  The other part is perfectly happy to ignore any stupid instructions and create a game world that me and my friends want, author intent be damned. 

Overall, I prefer games that know their audience will run their game their way.  Once they own the book, it's now on them.  I wouldn't put in a single word giving the reader morality advice.  Its pointless. 

Quote from: weirdguy564 on July 19, 2024, 10:56:46 AMI was just thinking of having gendered classes as a hypothetical. 

Let the men be big, tough warriors.  Then use magic as the equalizer, so restrict spell casters to women. 

However, this is getting us off topic.  The original question was about a specific game of Mork Borg rewritten to be Japanese. 

I recently went through a Japanese fantasy RPG hunt. 

I ended up settling on Chanbara, but then Kogarashi came into my life.  I switched games to Kogarashi.  I like rules lite, armor as a savings throw, and customizable classes.  Chanbara is rules lite and customizable, but is also traditional Basic D&D based.  Kogarashi is its own system called True D6. 

As for lore, then it might be good to get Bushido or Sengoku.  Both of those games can teach you a lot about Japanese history and culture norms, but I don't like the gameplay of either. 

As for ruling out games based on any morality instructions, I'm of two minds.  Part of me wants to rage and tell off the author for assuming they're morally superior.  The other part is perfectly happy to ignore any stupid instructions and create a game world that me and my friends want, author intent be damned. 

Overall, I prefer games that know their audience will run their game their way.  Once they own the book, it's now on them.  I wouldn't put in a single word giving the reader morality advice.  Its pointless. 

Damn!  That Kogarashi game looks interesting and at that price point, I'll probably grab it.  Little bummed about d6 only as I like weird dice, but looks fun nonetheless.  I also like digest-sized game books.

QuoteDamn!  That Kogarashi game looks interesting and at that price point, I'll probably grab it.  Little bummed about d6 only as I like weird dice, but looks fun nonetheless.  I also like digest-sized game books.

It's my favorite.

Rules lite.  It makes excellent use of just the humble D6.

For example, an attack with a sword is rolling a D6 and get equal or under your strength stat, and doubles as the damage you do. That is efficient by eliminating a dice roll and the time it takes to do it, not to mention people forget what damage their weapons do.  Looking that up is more time.

If your strength is 4, and you roll a 3, you hit for 3 damage.  Armor is a save throw, and light armor is 2.  The bandit rolls their armor save, gets a 2.  The subtract 2 damage, taking 1 HP of damage from your attack.  That's it. If the strength 3 bandit attacks back and rolls a 5, the bandit missed. 

I have Kogarashi as well and really dig it.

I'm going to go out on a limb here with an anecdotal observation from having run Kara-Tur since Oriental Adventures 1e, as well as a lot of Rokugan mishmashed into my homebrew campaigns over the last three-decades with lots of players that have drifted into and out of my group between the pre-culture war and whatever you want to call what we're doing now...

I think most players and GM's generally aren't deep into the Kamakura, Ashikaga, Sengoku or Edo periods at all. What they like are the trappings and amalgamations of all these different eras used much like popular European cultures of different eras to make it fun and syncretic.

I'm *not* saying not to put details of any specific era into it, but those work as great window dressing for the GM to immerse players that 1) don't want a history lesson 2) don't really care, because they just wanna use a katana and fight/be ninja.

Naturally context is king, I'd have MUCH better reception to simply saying to my players "It's going to be a fantasy Japan-style game, and give them the parameters without telling them overtly I'm *strictly* using a specific period to inform the sandbox.

This game linked in the thread would not be a draw to my players (or me - even though I'm super into Japanese/Chinese settings). It's not a draw for me simply because I don't need another system, which I could replicate literally all of this in with zero effort. 2) it wouldn't be a draw to my players over way too many other options as noted above.

If couched the campaign as some Shogun-like thing where the PC's are from our European sandbox and dropped them in there, they'd be much more receptive. I find this is *generally* (but not always) true of players.

The players that *ARE* into Japanese games tend to be *really* into them and end up clashing over details that they find out aren't even in play. And it almost ALWAYS comes from their assumption we're playing with very specific period ethos that may not even be a thing in our fantasy version. I'm less about real-world historical purity than I am about having a fantasy Japanese-esque setting that conforms to it's own historical setting conceits which are informed by and for similar reasons that arose for Japan itself.

For the same reason I don't cleave too closely to European history in some absolute sense in my fantasy gaming. Cultural myths? Absolutely. But there is a pretty real line between playing a die-hard historical RPG and a fantasy one. And somewhere in that gray-zone is where I find I lose a lot of players really fast once I leave European-style fantasy behind. They can take it in deep doses if I'm on my game. But rarely do they want to play entire campaigns of it.

Where it HAS been successful, it should be said, HAS ALWAYS been Fantasy Japan. And a couple of fantasy Arabias too.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/488075/senshi-roleplaying-game (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/488075/senshi-roleplaying-game)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVeZAewVmug&t=1147s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVeZAewVmug&t=1147s)

Quote from: Batjon on September 01, 2024, 01:49:57 PMhttps://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/488075/senshi-roleplaying-game (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/488075/senshi-roleplaying-game)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVeZAewVmug&t=1147s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVeZAewVmug&t=1147s)

Thanks; looks worthwhile though I want a dead tree version.  The explicitly apolitical stance is most welcome in a world where Wokeugan has taken over much of the Japanese-inspired RPG landscape.

Saw it at GenCon and almost bought it. If I had, several other guys I was with would have too. I saw the line about "Sexists, Racists, Homophobes and Transphobes, put this down and FUCK OFF."

Despite not being any of those, I know what they mean and don't give money to people who hate me. So I put it back and they lost out on several sales.

Quote from: dungeonmonkey on July 14, 2024, 05:41:41 PMThe final day of the kickstarter for Ronin, they sent an update that included the following text:

"At Slightly Reckless Games, we are committed to making Rōnin an inclusive game for everyone. We firmly believe in creating a safe and welcoming space for all players. Our game will not include or tolerate homophobia, racism, transphobia, or sexism. We believe in the power of diversity and inclusivity, and we're dedicated to ensuring Rōnin reflects these values."

This message was accompanied by a screen shot from the book reading:

"Sexists, Racists, Homophobes and Transphobes, put this down and FUCK OFF."

This message wasn't provoked by anything that happened in the kickstarter or by anything else as near as I can tell.

Were they at least honest enough to post that with enough time for people to cancel pledges or was that their "SUCKERS!" post?