Quote from: Willie the Duck;972777Do you think he's really just upset that FFG sells better than him?

Pundy has an amazing ability to criticize other games, usually because they include things he doesn't like as opposed to them actually being poor examples of what the designers were trying to achieve. And I can get criticizing him for that. I'm not sure, however, that I can get behind him getting more flack for that because he's produced gaming products than if he hadn't. He's done more heavy lifting in the game production field than I'll pretend I'll ever bother to do. That doesn't make his opinion any more valid than anyone else's, but it also doesn't make it less so either.

Dark Albion , minus all the typos and poor grammar, is a good book full of useful information. But that doesn't mean I care what RPGPundit thinks about anything. Sometimes he has an interesting insight or critique, but mostly it just seems to be "any deviation from D&D mechanics is bad." Also, he lost a lot of credibility with me when he claimed Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas was the best American novel of the 20th Century and Tombstone was the best Western movie of all time. Now I just assume he hasn't read much or seen many movies or has seriously flawed critical skills. Then again, he thinks "magick" is real so why does anyone take him seriously at all?

Quote from: Dumarest;972813Dark Albion , minus all the typos and poor grammar, is a good book full of useful information. But that doesn't mean I care what RPGPundit thinks about anything.

I agree. His books should be a neutral factor, which I did not take away from the comment I was responding to.

Quote from: Dumarest;972813Then again, he thinks "magick" is real so why does anyone take him seriously at all?

Because sheeple?

Quote from: Bren;972849Because sheeple?

Had to look that up; that's a new one for me.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;972777Pundy has an amazing ability to criticize other games, usually because they include things he doesn't like as opposed to them actually being poor examples of what the designers were trying to achieve. And I can get criticizing him for that. I'm not sure, however, that I can get behind him getting more flack for that because he's produced gaming products than if he hadn't. He's done more heavy lifting in the game production field than I'll pretend I'll ever bother to do. That doesn't make his opinion any more valid than anyone else's, but it also doesn't make it less so either.

Bear in mind that Pundit uses the "popularity" of his own games to claim victory in arguments. Here's a recent example. Whether you agree or disagree with that premise, there is a degree of "hoist by your own petard" here. He also frequently uses the popularity of 5E vs. 4E D&D to make claims about which one is the superior game. If you want to claim that popularity proves you right, then it's hypocritical when you turn around and claim that the popularity of FFG's games is irrelevant.

"We are all hypocrites. We cannot see ourselves or judge ourselves the way we see and judge others."

- José Emilio Pacheco,  Battles in the Desert and Other Stories

Quote from: S'mon;969226White Star looks to do Star Wars great...  ...probably not as great as 1e WEG d6 Star Wars though!

And therein lies my problem. I still have all of my old WEG Star Wars stuff and I honestly own almost everything they published for it. I enjoyed the system a great deal when I ran it. If ever I wanted to get back into it, those books would come out of storage. As a for the record sort of thing - I have heard some good things about FFG's version from younger players, like my nephew. I guess grognards gonna grognard.

the only thing that bugged me about the rules was the inconsistency.

So for instance, you don't generally make opposed rolls except when you do. In combat you might think it would be an opposed roll - base the difficulty dice on the target's stats for example - but it isn't.

It's not a problem as it's simpler, but it is a bit inconsistent.

I do find their business model a pain in the ass. I don't need a book for EVERY FUCKING CLASS, never mind a release schedule so slow the jurassic age could catch up to it. And of course each book contains new races, gear, ships, blah di blah. It's a shit model; i don't want a massive back breaking collection of books and players won't be buying them either.

Quote from: Harlock;972927And therein lies my problem. I still have all of my old WEG Star Wars stuff and I honestly own almost everything they published for it. I enjoyed the system a great deal when I ran it. If ever I wanted to get back into it, those books would come out of storage. As a for the record sort of thing - I have heard some good things about FFG's version from younger players, like my nephew. I guess grognards gonna grognard.

That's one of the nice thing about newer gamers. They come to the table without decades of bias and baggage and just want to play without any need to pick apart the system because it's all new to them.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;972918Bear in mind that Pundit uses the "popularity" of his own games to claim victory in arguments. Here's a recent example. Whether you agree or disagree with that premise, there is a degree of "hoist by your own petard" here. He also frequently uses the popularity of 5E vs. 4E D&D to make claims about which one is the superior game. If you want to claim that popularity proves you right, then it's hypocritical when you turn around and claim that the popularity of FFG's games is irrelevant.

I had not made that connection. I cede the point.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;972918Bear in mind that Pundit uses the "popularity" of his own games to claim victory in arguments. Here's a recent example. Whether you agree or disagree with that premise, there is a degree of "hoist by your own petard" here. He also frequently uses the popularity of 5E vs. 4E D&D to make claims about which one is the superior game. If you want to claim that popularity proves you right, then it's hypocritical when you turn around and claim that the popularity of FFG's games is irrelevant.

This guy here?

He fucking gets it.

Quote from: HappyDaze;972419And as far as initiative goes, your descriptions are the opposite of what FFG says. Cool is for going into a fight prepared while Vigilance is for when you stumble into a fight unprepared (though a good Vigilance means you end up being more prepared than some others).

yeah I got them reversed. Hazards of posting without the references near me.

Quote from: Biscuitician;972998the only thing that bugged me about the rules was the inconsistency.

So for instance, you don't generally make opposed rolls except when you do. In combat you might think it would be an opposed roll - base the difficulty dice on the target's stats for example - but it isn't.

I'm not following. You make opposed rolls when taking an action directly against an opponent. So melee, social interactions, etc. But for ranged combat - you use standardized Range difficulties of 2 (modified for range and circumstance and gear). Beyond those differences, assembling the die-pool and resolution is the same. Do you have a specific set of examples?

Quote from: Biscuitician;972998I do find their business model a pain in the ass. I don't need a book for EVERY FUCKING CLASS, never mind a release schedule so slow the jurassic age could catch up to it. And of course each book contains new races, gear, ships, blah di blah. It's a shit model; i don't want a massive back breaking collection of books and players won't be buying them either.

I'm calling polite bullshit on this. They very specifically have targeted specific aspects of the game through three separate lines covering a massive amount of ground. You *can't* put this all into one book, or three, or even a dozen. *Right now* - you could run any kind of Star Wars game in any era, or better - make up your own version of it with zero difficulty. Honestly, you could run years worth of games with any single Core book - with the assumption your campaign is centered around that kind of play. There are distinct assumptions about each line and that has to be taken into consideration before you play, though all of them are perfectly mechanically compatible.

They could end this line and lose the license right now and the totality of what they have produced will easily stand next to other editions of the game with ease.

Now if it's the monetary investment as the actual problem... I can't help ya there, they are pricey. Ain't gonna lie.

Kind of diggin' the equipment modification rules.  Though Tenbones you have to tell me how 12 for every race's attributes just allocated differently isn't as mind-numbingly banal is it seems.

Quote from: CRKrueger;973865Kind of diggin' the equipment modification rules.  Though Tenbones you have to tell me how 12 for every race's attributes just allocated differently isn't as mind-numbingly banal is it seems.

As opposed to D&D's bonii to stats, Shadowrun's stat allotment and whatever the fuck WoD does these days?

I'd say the FFG attribute set-up is average in comparison.