I've had a few rather bad - and consecutive - experiences with RPGs by "big" companies (at least as big as they can be) going fully woke. All my fault, because during about five years I didn't pay any attention to what was happening in the role playing world and then came back and didn't do the required research. I don't plan on giving any more money to faux-activist hypocrites who give in to the woke mob, but I'm also a sucker for very detailed settings, published campaigns and high production values, so keeping focused only on individual game designers doesn't quite cut it for me. I suppose this is the only place where I can ask this and get an answer, so... any suggestions? I'm not looking for any particular game or genre, just a nod on the right direction(s) if any...
Quote from: MigRib;1142739I've had a few rather bad - and consecutive - experiences with RPGs by "big" companies (at least as big as they can be) going fully woke. All my fault, because during about five years I didn't pay any attention to what was happening in the role playing world and then came back and didn't do the required research. I don't plan on giving any more money to faux-activist hypocrites who give in to the woke mob, but I'm also a sucker for very detailed settings, published campaigns and high production values, so keeping focused only on individual game designers doesn't quite cut it for me. I suppose this is the only place where I can ask this and get an answer, so... any suggestions? I'm not looking for any particular game or genre, just a nod on the right direction(s) if any...
They are 'giving in' to making money, it's capitalism in action.
Theres a fairly recent thread here on the subject if you backtrack a little.
Short answer is increasingly more companies are either chugging the koolaid or at the very least bending knee. But the instances of rampant virtue signalling seems to be increasing.
So many questions, not enough answers. Most of this big woke companies will go broke when the Great Depression hits. Their selected fanbase simply won't be able to afford it anymore. Without all the noise that's when free self publishing individuals like myself will become heroes to the community and finally have their hard work appreciated.
Here is the thread Omega mentioned.
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?39832-The-least-woke-major-RPG-publishers (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?39832-The-least-woke-major-RPG-publishers)
Quote from: Omega;1142742Theres a fairly recent thread here on the subject if you backtrack a little.
Short answer is increasingly more companies are either chugging the koolaid or at the very least bending knee. But the instances of rampant virtue signalling seems to be increasing.
Thanks, I'll take a better look at the past threads then.
Or better yet, you've found it for me, thanks!
Quote from: Taggie;1142741They are 'giving in' to making money, it's capitalism in action.
No, they're giving in to the woke mob. I have yet to see any evidence that this woke virtue signaling directly correlates with increased sales (and in other industries, such as comics, there has been evidence to the contrary), but even if it did the fact of the matter still remains that the motivating factor is either political or fear of the woke mob tarnishing their brand with accusations of bigotry if they don't (or a combination of both), rather than monetary in nature. NO ONE gives into the woke mob because 'capitalism'.
I find sticking to material released 2012 or earlier is the safest bet. WoTC pre-2016 - they're always a bit behind the curve.
I like Sasquatch and not seen any evidence Rich Baker is particularly Woke - https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/6416/Sasquatch-Game-Studio . Primeval Thule felt like it had been scrubbed a bit on release to get rid of the more lurid stuff Baker had been planning to go for according to his design blogs, but it's still very very good.
Oh, Judges Guild's Bob Bledsaw II has been revealed as anti-woke to the extent that you can no longer buy JG stuff at major outlets... some people would say positively racist/sexist/anti-Semitic, I don't know enough to really judge but he did seem to like ranting on Facebook.
Quote from: S'mon;1142757I like Sasquatch and not seen any evidence Rich Baker is particularly Woke - https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/6416/Sasquatch-Game-Studio . Primeval Thule felt like it had been scrubbed a bit on release to get rid of the more lurid stuff Baker had been planning to go for according to his design blogs, but it's still very very good.
Rich Baker is no longer with Sasquatch - https://twitter.com/RichBakerWriter/status/1246491862514438144
Also given the complete screw up of the game they call Alternity I've got zero love for them.
Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1142760Rich Baker is no longer with Sasquatch - https://twitter.com/RichBakerWriter/status/1246491862514438144
Also given the complete screw up of the game they call Alternity I've got zero love for them.
Oh, ok - yeah well, just buy the Primeval Thule stuff & ignore Alternity.
Quote from: S'mon;1142767Oh, ok - yeah well, just buy the Primeval Thule stuff & ignore Alternity.
Not too easy to do when you're a big fan of the original that was released in the last days of TSR and are a backer of the current cluster fck.
Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1142798Not too easy to do when you're a big fan of the original that was released in the last days of TSR and are a backer of the current cluster fck.
Yes, but I doubt the OP is in that position. :p
Labyrinth Lord and Basic Fantasy are my go-to's for fantasy
Traveller and Cepheus Engine for hard (ish) science fiction
Cyberpunk 2020 and Cybergeneration for cyberpunk (duh)
Mekton II and Mekton Zeta for giant robots/anime
d6 Star Wars for Star Wars
Everything else AFAIK that has come out in the last 10 years has slowly slid into social justice politics disguised as gaming.
Palladium has been non-political. They've had flawed, heroic, and villainous characters of various colors and pants-junk since the 80s and their only agenda is they just want everyone to have fun.
Quote from: jeff37923;1142900Labyrinth Lord and Basic Fantasy are my go-to's for fantasy
Traveller and Cepheus Engine for hard (ish) science fiction
Cyberpunk 2020 and Cybergeneration for cyberpunk (duh)
Mekton II and Mekton Zeta for giant robots/anime
d6 Star Wars for Star Wars
Everything else AFAIK that has come out in the last 10 years has slowly slid into social justice politics disguised as gaming.
Although Cyberpunk 2020 is untouched by wokeness - of course - Talsorian's new "Media Ambassador" is as woke as it gets (he is rather annoying on Twitter, not through his personal account, but Talsorian's). So, as he is also envolved in the games, I bet Cyberpunk Red will turn out pretty much a SJW wet dream (and The Witcher most likely will get the same treatment).
I was browsing through the mentioned thread and found no reference to a few companies like Free League, Fantasy Flight (although they, apparently, are no longer making RPGs they still have a lot of products out there) and Cubicle 7. Have these wokened too? Or have they stayed neutral?
Quote from: MigRib;1142920Although Cyberpunk 2020 is untouched by wokeness - of course - Talsorian's new "Media Ambassador" is as woke as it gets (he is rather annoying on Twitter, not through his personal account, but Talsorian's). So, as he is also envolved in the games, I bet Cyberpunk Red will turn out pretty much a SJW wet dream (and The Witcher most likely will get the same treatment).
I even noticed some of it slipping into some of their Facebook promotions for Castle Falkenstein. They took the 'Day in the Life' section from
Comme Il Faut and reposted it in snippets, but flipped the gender of the narrator and dropped in a transgender character.
Quote from: MigRib;1142920Although Cyberpunk 2020 is untouched by wokeness - of course - Talsorian's new "Media Ambassador" is as woke as it gets (he is rather annoying on Twitter, not through his personal account, but Talsorian's). So, as he is also envolved in the games, I bet Cyberpunk Red will turn out pretty much a SJW wet dream (and The Witcher most likely will get the same treatment).
you really haven't been paying attention to the politics of R Talsorian games.
Quote from: MigRib;1142920Although Cyberpunk 2020 is untouched by wokeness - of course - Talsorian's new "Media Ambassador" is as woke as it gets (he is rather annoying on Twitter, not through his personal account, but Talsorian's). So, as he is also envolved in the games, I bet Cyberpunk Red will turn out pretty much a SJW wet dream (and The Witcher most likely will get the same treatment).
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1142924I even noticed some of it slipping into some of their Facebook promotions for Castle Falkenstein. They took the 'Day in the Life' section from Comme Il Faut and reposted it in snippets, but flipped the gender of the narrator and dropped in a transgender character.
Disappointing! This, after Maximum Mike told the SJWs to pound sand when they complained about something or other in the Cyberpunk 2077 video game.
You mean in the past? I have no problem with being progressive, that's fine with me, the hypocrisy, ignorance, arrogance and the cult-like attitude of the woke is what gets on my nerves.
Quote from: RandyB;1142938Disappointing! This, after Maximum Mike told the SJWs to pound sand when they complained about something or other in the Cyberpunk 2077 video game.
Exactly! I loved that reply and then, all of a sudden, things turned really sour... Probably has nothing to do with the Pondsmiths, but still, it's their company...
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1142924I even noticed some of it slipping into some of their Facebook promotions for Castle Falkenstein. They took the 'Day in the Life' section from Comme Il Faut and reposted it in snippets, but flipped the gender of the narrator and dropped in a transgender character.
Hey, I didn't notice that. A transgender in the Victorian age? I mean, it's not quite out Victorian age, but still...
Quote from: RandyB;1142938Disappointing! This, after Maximum Mike told the SJWs to pound sand when they complained about something or other in the Cyberpunk 2077 video game.
The complaint was about the use of a transsexual model (in setting) in a sexualised manner to advertise some in setting drink or other. Which was a ridiculous complaint imho.
Quote from: Taggie;1142945The complaint was about the use of a transsexual model (in setting) in a sexualised manner to advertise some in setting drink or other. Which was a ridiculous complaint imho.
There was another thing about race, can't recall exactly what, but Mike Pondsmith wrote something about refusing to be lectured on how to act about racism.
Quote from: MigRib;1142943Hey, I didn't notice that. A transgender in the Victorian age? I mean, it's not quite out Victorian age, but still...
I may be misinterpreting things, but here's the original: https://www.facebook.com/RTalsorianGames/photos/a.618896421455736/3424021624276521/?type=3&theater
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1142950I may be misinterpreting things, but here's the original: https://www.facebook.com/RTalsorianGames/photos/a.618896421455736/3424021624276521/?type=3&theater
could be the Sweet Polly Oliver trope in action, with a female character pretending to be male during the day, or she could be transgender as we mean now, it wasn't unknown (obviously no surgery available, but still)
Quote from: MigRib;1142923I was browsing through the mentioned thread and found no reference to a few companies like Free League, Fantasy Flight (although they, apparently, are no longer making RPGs they still have a lot of products out there) and Cubicle 7. Have these wokened too? Or have they stayed neutral?
Cubicle 7 is going down the woke route. All you have to do is look at WFRP 4th ed and you'll see it. You can also go looking for the cover of the 2nd ed of the One Ring rpg they showed for hints as well. But since they are British it's pretty much a given since that country is pretty far left to start.
Quote from: MigRib;1142739I've had a few rather bad - and consecutive - experiences with RPGs by "big" companies (at least as big as they can be) going fully woke. All my fault, because during about five years I didn't pay any attention to what was happening in the role playing world and then came back and didn't do the required research. I don't plan on giving any more money to faux-activist hypocrites who give in to the woke mob, but I'm also a sucker for very detailed settings, published campaigns and high production values, so keeping focused only on individual game designers doesn't quite cut it for me. I suppose this is the only place where I can ask this and get an answer, so... any suggestions? I'm not looking for any particular game or genre, just a nod on the right direction(s) if any...
It's hard to say. Many of the good ol' standby game creators and their companies are now taking a knee to Black Lives Matter, siding with Marxism. I would look for companies that side with GamerGate. There are some video game companies that do. So I'm guessing there are some TTRPG companies that are doing the same.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1143154It's hard to say. Many of the good ol' standby game creators and their companies are now taking a knee to Black Lives Matter, siding with Marxism. I would look for companies that side with GamerGate. There are some video game companies that do. So I'm guessing there are some TTRPG companies that are doing the same.
Only Autarch (ACKS) comes to mind. Though I can't imagine Troll Lord Games actually Bending the Knee.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/81131673/bend-the-knee.jpg)
Quote from: MigRib;1142923I was browsing through the mentioned thread and found no reference to a few companies like Free League, Fantasy Flight (although they, apparently, are no longer making RPGs they still have a lot of products out there) and Cubicle 7. Have these wokened too? Or have they stayed neutral?
No idea about Free League.
FFG put out a [Brand] statement on Twitter and made donations in that kinda "pay the online protection racket to spare you" way. Their products otherwise seem neutral but that might have something to do with L5R being a ripe target for the usual suspects to read too much into. Nothing in their 40k, L5R or SW stuff ever made me raise an eyebrow.
Cucible 7's an odd duck. TOR 2E was showing signs of it, WHFRP 4E wasn't
too badd but that depends on your opinion of how diverse the (Holy Roman) Empire would reasonably be and whether that counts as woke. The number of white male enemies depicted in Soulbound's art versus the amount of white male heroes was pretty funny too (plenty of dwarves, one elf) Diversity of PCs is all good when your setting's openly trying to be a melting pot but the contrast between the pigments of heroes to villains definitely stood out to me as more than an accidental coincidence. How much of that is just jumping at shadows I'll let you decide.
Quote from: S'mon;1143159Only Autarch (ACKS) comes to mind. Though I can't imagine Troll Lord Games actually Bending the Knee.
Yeah, the artwork I'm seeing come out of the latest Autarch Kickstarter(Ascendant) has been pretty awesome and I don't think most other publishers would be capable of putting it out.
Quote from: S'mon;1143159Only Autarch (ACKS) comes to mind. Though I can't imagine Troll Lord Games actually Bending the Knee.
They won't. I won't either. Been through all this before with my favorite edition of D&D when the f&^kers came with their torches and pitchforks declaring my favorite game dead to them for whatever fanciful reasons they chose. Put together a new gaming group this summer, and they like my game just fine.
Also, I doubt you'll see Frog God bowing down anytime soon. If Bill and Zach bows at all anymore it'll work out pretty much like this:
[video=youtube;k4F8kj0TYHs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4F8kj0TYHs[/youtube]
Quote from: Dracones;1143187Yeah, the artwork I'm seeing come out of the latest Autarch Kickstarter(Ascendant) has been pretty awesome and I don't think most other publishers would be capable of putting it out.
Autarch's Publish via Kickstarter process is very mature and effective, on top of the good games they produce. And no bending of the knee that I've seen.
Quote from: S'mon;1142757I find sticking to material released 2012 or earlier is the safest bet.
That's my rule of thumb for entertainment in general these days.
Quote from: S'mon;1142757I like Sasquatch and not seen any evidence Rich Baker is particularly Woke - https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/6416/Sasquatch-Game-Studio . Primeval Thule felt like it had been scrubbed a bit on release to get rid of the more lurid stuff Baker had been planning to go for according to his design blogs, but it's still very very good.
I always liked Rich Baker's work in AD&D 2E and adapted many of his d20 adventures to 2E, like Forge of Fury.
Also, he is a US Navy veteran, so I think he's not woke at all.