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Being cheap and a fan of system light games, I've been really into Fate (and FAE) lately.

Any fans here? Board seems heavily dominated by D&D...

(I like D&D, though currently pretty happy with PF)

Yeah, sure. Though it's a bit of a vague questions given the how wildly different  individual implementations can be. FAE is nothing like Stands of Fate and there is nothing "system light" about Starblazers Adventures.

As for me, I've playing on and off Fate for the last 10 years and Fudge before that. My favourite commercial version is Bulldogs! as it's a very fun setting and the rules are presented in a somewhat more friendly, relaxed sort of way. I also have more own Fate game, Bounty Hunters of the Atomic Wastelands (http://ukrpdc.wordpress.com/category/games/bounty-hunters-of-the-atomic-wastelands/), which unsurprisingly does exactly what I want it to do.

What I have really played to excess over the last three years, even just yesterday, is ICONS. Technically it is only Fate-inspired but for me it takes the best parts of Fate and incorporates it into a game that runs just so smoothly.

I bought a printed copy of FAE. I read through it but I've just played it once so haven't any strong feelings about it either way. I have not read Core yet as there are only so many times you can read through what is roughly the same mechanics but with a few new twists and improvements. I'll pick it up when I'll have specific need for it.

I liked Fudge, but Fate's aspects don't work for me. I respect the system and deserves its fans, but FOR ME tapping aspects feels like video game clicking and breaks immersion badly. I'm not even sure why exactly, but I played in three FATE campaigns run by solid-to-great GMs and the system never worked for me.

I love Fate, works fine for me. I'm working on something for the long run use of FATE or FAE, but I'm still in the middle end run of H&S2E

ICONS is about as "Fatey" as I get. I like the simplified version of aspects that ICONS has, where they're limited to character traits that can be used for a "Determination" economy, but I think FATE itself takes the aspects idea way too far.

Quote from: Blacky the Blackball;768997ICONS is about as "Fatey" as I get. I like the simplified version of aspects that ICONS has, where they're limited to character traits that can be used for a "Determination" economy, but I think FATE itself takes the aspects idea way too far.

Yeah. Me too.

I find it a system heavily conflicted despite its seeming appeal. You have very simple and super crunchy side by side, along with player and PC perspectives in the same space. I have often found a group struggle to be on the "same page" with FATE.

Quote from: Blacky the Blackball;768997ICONS is about as "Fatey" as I get. I like the simplified version of aspects that ICONS has, where they're limited to character traits that can be used for a "Determination" economy, but I think FATE itself takes the aspects idea way too far.

Yeah, I like ICONS well enough, but my group balked hard at FATE. They just didn't get it, or like what they read, either in the Core Rules or (sadly) Dresden. It wasn't meant to be, I guess.

I really like the idea of Fate. I really like Bulldogs! and the Fate Worlds supplements (a game about Firefighters? Fucking AWESOME).

But other than making characters a few times and briefly participating in a play-by-post game, I haven't really gotten a chance to play. I'd really like to, but oh well.

It's complicated.

Run Starblazer Adventures once and hated it.

Played ICONS once and found it kind of meh.

I was willing to give FAE and FATE Core a try until Fred Hicks decided to endorse false accusations at certain people. Now I'm hesitant to pick up stuff he's involved with.

I've long enjoyed using FUDGE and have a healthy collection of the dice.  I haven't had a chance to really play FATE, although I do have a bunch of the different rulesets either physically or electronically.  But I want to.

I suspect I'll get to it sooner or later - when my kid's a couple years older, at the worst.

Cool!

The thing I've seen with Aspects is that they seem to be really poorly explained in every product. It's conversations that have clarified things far more than actual game rules.

Anyway, just feeling out the board culture, thank you.

(I haven't gotten a chance to play Fate mainly because my TT group died years ago, I'm a long trip from most folks, and I have two five year olds)

I'm a fan.

You might recognize me as Kyoryu on TBP.

Also, I'm in Bellevue, right next to the MS campus, so getting together would be feasible.

I've been using Fate to run Zelazny's Amber for about 6 years updating as more refined versions of the system come out. We've enjoyed it quite a bit.

ICONS is as close to FATE as I've gotten.

Quote from: robiswrong;769068I'm a fan.

You might recognize me as Kyoryu on TBP.

Also, I'm in Bellevue, right next to the MS campus, so getting together would be feasible.

Cool! I'm hoping come September I'll start being able to consider having a life...

I like Fudge more than Fate myself. Although I do like the idea behind Aspects just not the metagamey fate economy.

I am in the middle of developing a fantasy ruleset using Fudge/Fate
http://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/MajesticRealmsRPG_Fudge_Rev%2016.zip

Basically I use Aspect where other systems use Advantage and Disadvantages. It is not fine grained but rather a package of benefits and complications. The exact mix depend on what the aspect represents.

Quote from: robiswrong;769068I'm a fan.

You might recognize me as Kyoryu on TBP.

Also, I'm in Bellevue, right next to the MS campus, so getting together would be feasible.

I, er, should point out that my cp is about 10 years out of date and I now live in Monroe, which is 45-60 mins from Bellevue. But still. ;)

Quote from: Will;768956Being cheap and a fan of system light games, I've been really into Fate (and FAE) lately.

Any fans here? Board seems heavily dominated by D&D...

(I like D&D, though currently pretty happy with PF)

I'm interested in Fate but I haven't had time to check it out. And, I have to admit, I lost a bit of interest when I discovered that poker chips (or beads, or whatever) are a primary component.

Still, the books look interesting. I'll read through a few when I have time.

Well, Fate points come and go. So you need something for that. I dunno, I use chits and beads and stuff for other games and their resources, so it doesn't seem that unusual to me.

Another option would be marking a piece of cardboard and sliding a colorful paperclip?

Quote from: Will;769091Well, Fate points come and go. So you need something for that. I dunno, I use chits and beads and stuff for other games and their resources, so it doesn't seem that unusual to me.

Another option would be marking a piece of cardboard and sliding a colorful paperclip?

Don't worry, it's a wholly irrational dislike on my part, and I know it. :)

The books have gotten enough positive commentary that I'm willing to set aside my instant bias.

Edit: Wasn't there a well-reviewed cyberpunk book for Fate? Or am I thinking of another game line?

I've found FATE and FAE interesting, but I think I'd need to actually DM some games to really get a feel for it, even more than simply being a player in one.

I dunno...

One nice thing is that you can get Fate Core free, so ... that's one less barrier.

I have FAE and never got to try it. I might like it better than FATE Core. I really wanted to like ICONS though, and found it kinda ehhh, so hopefully I have better luck with FAE.

Quote from: Blacky the Blackball;768997ICONS is about as "Fatey" as I get. I like the simplified version of aspects that ICONS has, where they're limited to character traits that can be used for a "Determination" economy, but I think FATE itself takes the aspects idea way too far.

I guess I liked FATE 2 better than the current version. But I also guess that I liked FUDGE better than FATE 2...

The only version of FATE that I played was Diaspora, and it cured me of metagamey aspects.

I like some games better that came out of the FATE/storygame community, such as Lady Blackbird, in the same way as I like some games better that came out of the d20 community such as Microlite 20 and the OSR clones.

I'm waiting for my copy of Atomic Robo to get a campaign started. I've been reading the PDF a lot and I just love the game as much as I love the comic. I don't think I'd use that system for another game though.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;769129The only version of FATE that I played was Diaspora, and it cured me of metagamey aspects.

How so?

I love reading Fate, but have yet to have it work out as well in play as more "traditional" games. We ran a game using Diaspora as a base but found the system in general hard to grok. The mini-games for that version didn't help either. It's a system that promises the world but delivers a confusing experience despite the cool ideas.

The way fans promote it is needlessly exclusionary as well. They've created this false binary of wrongbad "antagonistic" GMing and fluffy "cooperative" gaming. I've done collaborative setting-creation but prefer to create the world and characters myself. I don't really like "declarations" or sharing details the characters wouldn't know. Anathema to that crowd. I've even used a GM screen before. EEGADS!

Beyond some of its more annoying fans and underneath the (for me) fun-destroying mechanics, there's a solid core of ideas there. It can be a struggle to get there, though.

Yeah, I'm tinkering with a Diaspora-inspired game. I'm hoping to explain Aspects a lot more simply... I've seen some great explanations and approaches, but most of the books I've read are murk.

FATE 3.0 was a system I wanted to like, but ended up leaving a bad taste in the mouths of my group. We'd toyed with SotC hacks a number of times for short games, and they were serviceable enough, but things broke down when we played DFRPG. Partly it was the game conforming to the genre (really, I think the Dresdenverse works better as a backdrop for a series of books than an RPG), but it was equally problems with the system.

Such as:

• The vagaries of the Fate Point economy just didn't work for us. Maybe we're broadly too traditional in our collective tastes, but it felt too often like you had to trawl for Compels to ensure you had FPs to use later on, rather than them "driving the story" or some such.
• Furthermore, it seemed most tasks came down to whether or not you were willing to throw a load of FPs at them in order to guarantee a win.
• Refresh didn't work as a balancing mechanic. I remain completely unconvinced by it to this day. Far too often the powers were more useful than the FPs, or having them meant you needed them less.
• The Skill pyramid/column just seemed arbitrary and neither realistic nor well-balanced as a means of allocating competence.
• Opposed rolls made anything involving opposition ridiculously swingy. We fixed that by having only the players roll (so just 4dF of variance, rather than 8dF) so that at least competence mattered, but it seemed like a kludge.

FAE doesn't really address any of those, so we're done with FATE.

I found Fate inspired me to want to play diceless again, and if that's the case there are better systems out there to do it in.

In all seriousness, the part I like least about Fate, and FAE was no exempt, was the Stunts. Fiddly, annoying to keep track of, and reminds you that this game is nothing but a 1-5 scale with bonus stacking.

I do like the Fudge Dice - that's a neat mechanic (rolling 4 dice with the expected value being your own existing score).

Never mind the frustration my players expressed at being expected to essentially co-GM the game. They wanted me to GM for a reason. This all being said, I would run it tomorrow if my group wanted to play it, but I would certainly not be running it the way the book suggested.

Rename Aspects to Concepts, eliminate the Trouble Aspect.
Change Stunts to Feats, since that's what they are, and I don't have to worry about copyrights.
Eliminate the stupid Skill pyramid!
Expand the range of compotency from 1-5 to 1-8 or something... give the characters some more room for granularity.

Actually, to be completely fair, a lot of these options exist in the Fate Toolkit, so if you have any interest in the game I'd recommend checking out Fate Core and the Fate Toolkit.

I could grumble about my misgivings with Fred Hicks (his attitude in the G+ group has stunk at times)... but he's allowed to be a jerk. He's a game designer, not a spokesman.

Just want to respond to a few points here - I'm not saying your experiences are "wrong" in any way.

Quote from: Kiero;769499The vagaries of the Fate Point economy just didn't work for us. Maybe we're broadly too traditional in our collective tastes, but it felt too often like you had to trawl for Compels to ensure you had FPs to use later on, rather than them "driving the story" or some such.

In my games, we end up with *maybe* 1-3 compels/session.  I think the desire to always have "enough" Fate Points is often driven by the assumption that you should win every encounter.

Fate's not really like that so much.  I tell my new Fate players that they should expect to lose frequently.

And Compels *should* "drive" the "story".  A Compel should incur a significant enough cost that it *changes what happens*.

Quote from: Kiero;769499Furthermore, it seemed most tasks came down to whether or not you were willing to throw a load of FPs at them in order to guarantee a win.

This is absolutely correct.  Moreover, it's *by design*.  Fate isn't about "challenges" so much as it is about "dilemmas" and cost.  The primary thing when encountering something isn't "is my build/skill enough to overcome this?" so much as it is "how much do I want this, and am I willing to pay the cost?"  Sometimes that cost is Fate Points.  Sometimes it's Consequences.

Quote from: Kiero;769499Refresh didn't work as a balancing mechanic. I remain completely unconvinced by it to this day. Far too often the powers were more useful than the FPs, or having them meant you needed them less.

Stunts/powers vs. Refresh is all about specialization vs. flexibility.  I don't know your game, but if you're running a mostly-combat game, stunts/powers *will* vastly outshine refresh.  The advantage of refresh and having high Fate Points is that you can use them outside of your "specialty".

Quote from: Kiero;769499The Skill pyramid/column just seemed arbitrary and neither realistic nor well-balanced as a means of allocating competence.

It's not realistic.  I do find it reasonably effective as a balancing mechanism, especially if you're playing a game where all of the skills matter (that's one of the explicit guidelines in Fate Core, actually, that the skill list for a game should be a good indicator of what the game will be "about").

If you have a reasonably diverse table, it works.  It also works better with players that have really grasped how much can be done with Create Advantage/Maneuver/Make an Assessment/etc.  If all the players think they should Attack every turn, they're not really using their characters' skills effectively.

I love Fate. Especially ICONS.

The best thing about FATE (though to be honest can't remember if it's part of the core FATE mechanics or from Starblazer Adventures)to me and my group the couple of times we tried it was the co-operative setting construction aspect of it. We really had a ball with it, let everyone have a creative say in things and ensured that there'd be some aspect of the city (in the case of the game we worked on) that interested and/or could be a draw for their specific character, and as the GM the whole process actually helped me come up with ideas and run with them in fairly short order.

Really neat.

Quote from: Werekoala;772424The best thing about FATE (though to be honest can't remember if it's part of the core FATE mechanics or from Starblazer Adventures)to me and my group the couple of times we tried it was the co-operative setting construction aspect of it. We really had a ball with it, let everyone have a creative say in things and ensured that there'd be some aspect of the city (in the case of the game we worked on) that interested and/or could be a draw for their specific character, and as the GM the whole process actually helped me come up with ideas and run with them in fairly short order.

Really neat.

Yeah, I must admit that part of DFRPG, City Creation, was lots of fun. We ended up spending two sessions on it and really getting into it.

Most of the variants I've seen seem to encourage it, and I think the core rules at least suggest campaign building.

Given the fluid, self-correcting nature of Aspects, it's easy to apply them at so many different levels.

Quote from: Will;768956Being cheap and a fan of system light games, I've been really into Fate (and FAE) lately.

Any fans here? Board seems heavily dominated by D&D...

(I like D&D, though currently pretty happy with PF)

I tried to read Fate but my eyes glazed over...couldn't get into "aspects" in lieu of defined attributes...and the examples of play I read didn't seem very appealing. But I don't really like D&D either. What did you like about Fate? Maybe if someone showed me why it's good and not just amateur drama while rolling dice I could get into it.

There's a problem with presentation, because the best arrangement for what to describe first or do first, really, depends highly on the reader's interests and approach.

At base, the game isn't that complex:
Skills somewhat fold together 'abilities' and skills. So if you are shooting at someone, it's roll Shoot vs. Athletics (they are dodging).
Damage is soaked -- if you can't soak, you can either end your part in the fight or take a Consequence (which is basically long-term damage).

There are a lot of other options for things to do with skills, fixed target numbers (I'm trying to break open the door) and so on.

Aspects add a meta-game economy to give bonuses. 'Pushing' the scene in various ways (adding Aspects) entitles you to a free Aspect use -- essentially, you are performing one action to swing around and give you a bonus the next round with another action (toss sand in his face, pop him in the jaw).

That's... really it. People have aspects that give them flavorful excuses to spend Fate points, or to make bad things happen to give them Fate points.

Unfortunately I think a lot of explanations focus so much on Aspects that they sound like almost the entire game.


(Note that FAE and some other variants are more Aspect-focused, but regular Fate Core...)

Quote from: Matt;776402I tried to read Fate but my eyes glazed over...couldn't get into "aspects" in lieu of defined attributes...and the examples of play I read didn't seem very appealing. But I don't really like D&D either. What did you like about Fate? Maybe if someone showed me why it's good and not just amateur drama while rolling dice I could get into it.

If I run an online game, I'll be sure to invite you.  I've offered to run an "intro" game for curious folks here.

Quote from: robiswrong;776416If I run an online game, I'll be sure to invite you.  I've offered to run an "intro" game for curious folks here.

Let me know...I'll try any game on for size at least once.

How does Fate compare to Cortex? I played a couple of Cortex games but didn't care much for the dice pools and plot points. Is one an imitation of the other? They seem similar when described to me.

I'm a big fan, just did my Fate Accelerated-using game Kickstarter, we're currently playing a Fate-Fantasy game for our regular weekly campaign, and we've started to use Fate for quick pick-up games, too (on nights not everyone can show up, that sort of thing).  We've gotten pretty hooked.

I wasn't able to get into any official events at GenCon, but I'm hoping to sneak into a pick-up game or squat at a table thanks to some generi-tickets or something, next week.

An idea I had that I think is insufferably clever for fantasy games is to have Armor as a skill -- purely defensive, and usable even if mobility is impaired (which would normally rule out Athletics).

(This is assuming you don't use weapon/armor ratings, which I'm not fond of)