I never heard of this RPG until 15 minutes ago. I was trolling through DriveThruRPG for stock art and I noticed this ICRPG listed in front of the Bestseller list. Curious, I clicked it and OMG, it's a Mithral seller with 156 reviews and a 5 star rating. I am deeply perplexed as I've never heard anyone every discuss this game. I read through the preview and I gotta say, I love the author's style and the game looks potentially interesting. The death rules look wanky, aka too easy to keep PCs alive, but that might be right for the tone of their system.
So....have any of you played ICRPG? What are your thoughts?
Dunno, but they have a free quickstart PDF that you can download on their site.
https://www.icrpg.com/
I noticed that at least one of the reviews commented that this game is like a "skeleton" where you have to add in the details. That could be either a positive or a negative, but looks like it would be some work to get in shape. Also, the paperback looks like it's a $30 product, which seems sort of steep.
I thought "effort" seemed like it would slow the game down horribly. (Effort means tasks basically have HP. Succeeding in a skill roll means rolling for the amount of damage or effort overcome.) Combat, because of the HP nature is already so slow in RPGs -- I'm constantly looking for ways to make combat go even faster, so I'm not sure I want to slow down skills/tasks as well.
Now, if you and your players enjoy that, it looks like it will work.
I liked this review and play report http://paulgestwicki.blogspot.com/2017/06/an-afternoon-with-icrpg.html (http://paulgestwicki.blogspot.com/2017/06/an-afternoon-with-icrpg.html)
Here's another about balance in the game. I don't care for the solution to make magic less reliable but I know a lot here will like it. https://www.thegrizzlyrant.gmgrizzly.com/2018/04/balancing-in-icrpg-or-how-i-learned-to.html (https://www.thegrizzlyrant.gmgrizzly.com/2018/04/balancing-in-icrpg-or-how-i-learned-to.html)
Isnt there a nearly identical thread on this here from like last year?
Quote from: Omega;1082416Isnt there a nearly identical thread on this here from like last year?
Yes -- with very little outcome. After a year, it'll be interesting to see if anyone has tried it.
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?36968-What-s-the-deal-with-Index-Card-RPG (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?36968-What-s-the-deal-with-Index-Card-RPG)
Edgewise posted a review in that thread http://artifactsandrelics.blogspot.com/2017/05/review-index-card-rpg-core-set.html (http://artifactsandrelics.blogspot.com/2017/05/review-index-card-rpg-core-set.html)
I found the comments about having a "target" (number to beat -- how easy or hard a task is) interesting, since it veered off into comments about target number being "artificial balance and tension, rather than emergent drama" and "mak[ing] the GM's puppeteer strings too blatant". I hadn't thought about that. I guess I don't see much difference in HD for monsters or penalties for better locks and Target. But it may be because I tend to make the preset stuff except the "boss" in an adventure pretty much the same difficulty. When a player wants to do something difficult/silly/impractical they agree that it should be more difficult, but I also tend to offset that with generous bonuses for well thought out, in character, or just plain awesome plans.
I played a one shot with my group. The game runs fast and with the release of Worlds and Magic it is has gained some depth.
Played as written, it can be more of overcoming a challenge than killing all the monsters. What I mean by that is the design sets up ways to overcome problems and may have monsters continue to spawn if not stopped or the area where the monsters dwell exited. For players who want to kill everything, this can be frustrating. For players who like to think outside of the box it can be fun.
Worlds is my favorite part of ICRPG because it includes Ghost Mountain, a haunted Western with heavy supernatural themes and dangerous violence. The setting is amazing and the art and maps are top notch.
ICRPG is worth buying for the art and the ideas even if you don't run a full campaign. It is also great for one shots as well as idea and art mining. The RPG has a heavy YouTube presence and discussions and live plays are out in the wild.
Ol' Hankerin Ferinale, pronounced Furnail?: had videos up years ago, wherein he talked about playing D&D 5E; but with house rules. I don't think he cared for playing RAW. Then he became enamored with Dungeon World, and borrowed certain components for use in his D&D 5E campaigns. Then, he later rolled out Index Card RPG.
I like the old Drunkens & Dragons videos.
How did ICRPG become so popular to be a Mithral seller? That's no joke.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1082753How did ICRPG become so popular to be a Mithral seller? That's no joke.
Take a YouTuber with a reasonable following (35k+) and add an RPG that hits all the traditional mechanics of DnD. I've seen where 1600 digital and 200 print copies made something gold. If 1% of the subscribers buy...
Quote from: Spinachcat;1082753How did ICRPG become so popular to be a Mithral seller? That's no joke.
Because he attempted to simplify D&D, and he already had a following to market to.
He uses Number Rolled, plus Ability Modifier; vs Target Number. He also likes to set a single Room DC, for all challenges in that room.
Ive played it for a one off adventure. It was good fun as a one off, but doesnt have much depth/very bare bones. Not my cup of tea for a longer term campaign. PC advancement for example is by gear only. The effort mechanic is like skill challenges but with a random amount added towards your goal tally (which might be say 13) instead of a single success vs your skill challenge tally (which might be 5).
Quote from: Psikerlord;1082912PC advancement for example is by gear only.
How does that work?
Quote from: Spinachcat;1082940How does that work?
You have been using a +1 sword, but now you have a +2 sword....
So a wizard casts more powerful spells because of their gear?
I don't own a copy; but I believe Index Card RPG is an attempt at utilizing simpler mechanics, to leave more time for the DM / GM to focus upon Narrative Role Play, etc. The author thinks 2nd & 3rd Edition D&D were awesome, but not because of crunchy mechanics. He's trying to cut to the chase, and get what he likes out of RPGs; while minimizing session prep, and dice resolution modifiers, etc.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1082940How does that work?
So instead of gaining a class abilities you gain items that grant abilities. Eg my pirate thief for example had: a rope & hook that granted +3 on climb checks, custom weapons that granted +2 damage bonus, a pretty cloak that added +1 Cha, a mask that gave +3 on deception, and a lucky charm that granted +1d6 once per day. I dont remember the character having any abilities herself. I cant remember now if this is a classless game, I think it is.
I just got a copy of the full rules, and I really like what I've seen so far.
Has D&D Standard Stats - Str/Int/Wis/Dex/Con/Cha. You get six points to distribute amongst the stats, each point is a +1 modifier (so this system does away with the actual Str value and keeps the modifier). D20 + relevant stat vs target number. Easy shit has a -3 to the target number, hard shit has +3 to the target number. No XP, you improve by grabbing better shit. I don't like that.
Hit points divided into "Hearts" of 10 HP each, just a different way to note. Tasks can also be given Hearts, you accomplish these with skill checks and rolling "damage" dice against them. Has a couple different ways to handle it (reduce the task's HP to 0 to accomplish it, or if you don't like that then one successful roll gets it half done, a critical success gets it done in one go, a fumble means you done fucked up son and maybe make it worse). Damage dice depend on what you're using, for fighting or for task management. I like that. If you get to zero hit points, roll a d6 and that's how many combat rounds you have to live. Roll a d20 every subsequent combat round - if you roll a 20 you stabilize, you also stabilize if a buddy runs up and makes a Wisdom or Intelligence check. Roll a 20 on other checks and you get to roll normal damage/effort dice plus an extra d12.
Class-based, but it's not "heavy" class if that makes sense (there's no "not a Thief? Fuck no you can't hide in shadows, only a thief can do that, what are you, stupid?").
A lot of solid GM advice - some good stuff there whether you want to use this system or not (how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. How do you build a huge-ass sandbox campaign setting? One session at a time. You don't have to have the whole thing set up ahead of time, just get together what you need for the next session).
Describes two settings in the core book, a standard fantasy thing and a sci-fi setting. They are serviceable. There is a Worlds book with more if you somehow find yourself bereft of setting ideas.
Monster section, about 32 pages. Some familiar faces there, and a cool tribute to the Rot Grub image from the original Monster Manual. Advice on how to make your own.
80ish pages of sample adventures, with a half-dozen adventures. Two fantasy, two sci-fi, a Mad Max thing, and a Cthulhuesque adventure.
Bunch of random tables at the end - locations, monsters, loot.
"Simplify D&D" is a pretty good description and I dig what they're trying to do here. Seems like something that will work well for the younger set. I'm going to work up something and find some volunteers.
I've been a follower of Hank for a while now. He's a great guy, and he's known for having really cool off the wall D&D ideas. Ways to make setpieces, how to add pressure to combat, stuff that you can take and add to any D&D or RPG game you're running. He's also one of those guys that really clicks and bonds with his community; a lot of ICRPG's stuff was made with the back and forth of his community.
Hank likes fast, simple and to the point, combat oriented (or at least, deadly) style D&D games. I don't know if he ever played OD&D but he'd probably love that. ICRPG is his take on that kind of game, with simple rules meant to drive gameplay and make it easy to run for the GM. His rules focus on impact -- no tons of fiddly little bonuses here, just big differences that drive the stakes. Characters come and go, death comes quick. He personally makes the art for all his stuff and it has a cool aesthetic to it. He also creates a bunch of adventures you can use, and his YT channel has him walk through his process for creating them, explaining his philosophy behind the game, so you can learn how to do it yourself too.
All in all it's a great, simple game, to play when you want to sit down with your friends and play some beer and pretzels D&D.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1083383I've been a follower of Hank for a while now. He's a great guy, and he's known for having really cool off the wall D&D ideas. Ways to make setpieces, how to add pressure to combat, stuff that you can take and add to any D&D or RPG game you're running. He's also one of those guys that really clicks and bonds with his community; a lot of ICRPG's stuff was made with the back and forth of his community.
Hank likes fast, simple and to the point, combat oriented (or at least, deadly) style D&D games. I don't know if he ever played OD&D but he'd probably love that. ICRPG is his take on that kind of game, with simple rules meant to drive gameplay and make it easy to run for the GM. His rules focus on impact -- no tons of fiddly little bonuses here, just big differences that drive the stakes. Characters come and go, death comes quick. He personally makes the art for all his stuff and it has a cool aesthetic to it. He also creates a bunch of adventures you can use, and his YT channel has him walk through his process for creating them, explaining his philosophy behind the game, so you can learn how to do it yourself too.
All in all it's a great, simple game, to play when you want to sit down with your friends and play some beer and pretzels D&D.
I don't recall hearing him make references back to OD&D, or 1E AD&D. In one of his videos, he even refers to his copy of the Rules Cyclopedia as being 2nd Edition AD&D. He does mention 2E and 3.5E in his videos; along with PF and 5E, of course.
To sum it up, he likes simple, mechanically driven, high stakes, high lethality games where you play as "big 'ol badasses."
There's no dying to sewer plague in Hank games, but you will probably get incinerated by a dragon's fire breath.
By mechanically driven, I mean he likes to have a lot of the ambiguity that grinds gameplay to a halt in most RPGs/DMing dealt with by mechanics.
Outside of combat, instead of people talking over each other and wondering what to do, you still take the game in turns. It works fast in practice. Everyone then knows what's going on.
Almost every combat has some sort of timer in the form of a hazard or something else, to add urgency and direction.
It's not combat for combat's sake, but to address some other goal.
Basically, lots of stuff you can add to your normal D&D games as just good DMing, but in ICRPG the rules are built around it.
Oh, to address advancement.
You don't really level up, you just are you. However, you find powerful treasures over the course of play. This is so you can get stuff that's normally out of your league, and it'll take the place of class features, in essence. However, much like RPG Pundit's random class features, the items you get are not under your control, so you'll always have something different going on. Furthermore, you can lose the loot due to a lot of hazards, creating the "advancement treadmill" that D&D normally has, since you'll always be on the lookout for more treasure as a result.
You don't HAVE to play it that way, but that's just what he recommends.
My favorite videos of his, are the 3 he did on Dungeon World. I have watched the crap out of those; as well as his videos on Homebrew, and 2D vs 3D for miniatures and terrain.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1083394By mechanically driven, I mean he likes to have a lot of the ambiguity that grinds gameplay to a halt in most RPGs/DMing dealt with by mechanics.
What do you mean by "ambiguity that grinds gameplay to a halt" and how it is "dealt with by mechanics"?
Quote from: Tod13;1083435What do you mean by "ambiguity that grinds gameplay to a halt" and how it is "dealt with by mechanics"?
He likes to assign DCs and make a challenge out of a lot of things that would ordinarily be handled by freeform RPing, so there's something solid to hang your hat on. He doesn't like it when you're just aimlessly adrift without a goal or without structure.
For instance, let's look at table talk. A lot of the time, outside of combat, when it comes to PCs participating in the game, it boils down to the loudest or most aggressive voices dominating the table. Other more quiet people might never say anything or have all the spotlight focused on the louder people. This is something that has to be adjudicated by the DM. In ICRPG though, you also take turns -outside- combat so that everyone automatically gets a chance to do something.
Basically, ICRPG isn't the kind of game with "downtime" scenes or gameplay. It's an action game where every time you sit down to focus on the game, it's with the focus of an action scene or some constructive goal being pursued. I mean, I guess you can run it that way, but that's not what the game is built around. It's a game about awesome and deadly encounters.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1083440He likes to assign DCs and make a challenge out of a lot of things that would ordinarily be handled by freeform RPing, so there's something solid to hang your hat on. He doesn't like it when you're just aimlessly adrift without a goal or without structure.
For instance, let's look at table talk. A lot of the time, outside of combat, when it comes to PCs participating in the game, it boils down to the loudest or most aggressive voices dominating the table. Other more quiet people might never say anything or have all the spotlight focused on the louder people. This is something that has to be adjudicated by the DM. In ICRPG though, you also take turns -outside- combat so that everyone automatically gets a chance to do something.
Basically, ICRPG isn't the kind of game with "downtime" scenes or gameplay. It's an action game where every time you sit down to focus on the game, it's with the focus of an action scene or some constructive goal being pursued. I mean, I guess you can run it that way, but that's not what the game is built around. It's a game about awesome and deadly encounters.
Cool. Thanks!
This is sounding quite different and interesting.
Still sounds like traditional RPGing, but from a new angle.
Here, watch this. He's got a lot of videos on his channel that deal with the game, and a lot that have cool ideas but weren't made for the game but end up influencing the game anyway.
[video=youtube;tZ1Lg1l1pHY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ1Lg1l1pHY[/youtube]
In this video he goes into the key parts of the game.
Also, the way he runs his games, and the way ICRPG is set up, is basically every session is a one shot. That doesn't mean that it is always totally stand alone, but even if it's in a campaign, the campaign is more like a series of one shots linked together. That way every night is a night when you get together and do something that has a climax and some finality to it. A lot of the mechanics are thus geared towards creating impact and not having it turn into a kind of wishy washy soup.
Thank you mAcular Chaotic!
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1083579Here, watch this. He's got a lot of videos on his channel that deal with the game, and a lot that have cool ideas but weren't made for the game but end up influencing the game anyway.
[video=youtube;tZ1Lg1l1pHY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ1Lg1l1pHY[/youtube]
In this video he goes into the key parts of the game.
Thanks for posting that. It was interesting--normally I can't stand videos, but this was OK.
I like the "room target" and the no-derived-statistics, but then he starts adding easy/hard and complexes it up. Our homebrew solution is that all rolls are opposed, one polyhedral die on each side. Bonuses/advantages go up one dice size. Penalties/disadvantages go down one dice size. Players meet or beat opponent's roll. Each dungeon/adventure has a base die size with bosses (monsters or traps or whatever) having larger die sizes.
Hit points/hearts makes some sense. We use the die sizes as attributes and hit points, to keep numbers lower and keep no-derived-statistics.
"Effort" makes more sense when you know he limits how often something has effort. I still want to figure out a way to simplify combat and actions to keep them interesting and reduce the time spent in combat--but still keep the ability to have stuff like the orcs and players miss each other for four cycles and start talking to each other. Part of what we did was make damage fixed rather than rolled and not have any math except >=.
We love polyhedral dice. And we don't mind mixing them up, and like it better (see above description of opposed single polyhedral rolls). We use percentiles for anything not linked to character or opponent traits. (For example, one character was collecting cutlery--so to see if a room had cutlery when it wasn't pre-determined, I rolled a percentile that the player had to meet or beat for there to be cutlery.)
I think death is overrated. I know a lot of people really like easy-to-die in RPGs. We like failure, since one of the things we like best is building the character's personalities and interactions between PCs and NPCs over time. For our homebrew, for easy death, we just switch <=0HP as death for PCs instead of unconscious.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1083579Also, the way he runs his games, and the way ICRPG is set up, is basically every session is a one shot. That doesn't mean that it is always totally stand alone, but even if it's in a campaign, the campaign is more like a series of one shots linked together. That way every night is a night when you get together and do something that has a climax and some finality to it. A lot of the mechanics are thus geared towards creating impact and not having it turn into a kind of wishy washy soup.
Do you know of a video that covers "every session is a one shot"? I tried searching but failed. How long are sessions?
Yeah I am the same with videos, but he is very fun to watch. I had fun watching all his videos, and a lot of them have actual good ideas that I was able to apply to DMing. One being that there should always be some sort of pressure in an encounter (so you don't just sit around). His specific version is timers, using a d4 to signify a countdown to create anticipation and tension to something happening. Either more reinforcements, some terrain hazard, etc. I don't use it exactly that way, but the concept is a good one as it adds an extra dimension to each encounter.
He has other videos other than that one I posted that breaks down those concepts in more detail; that video is more like a summary of his other ones.
I don't know if he has one video in particular about the one shot concept, but throughout his videos he often explains it that way, and you can tell when he maps out his own one shots in some videos and explains how it works. You could watch some of those. I believe his sessions are about three hours each?
He's also very much a tactile style of DM, liking to have custom made terrain and figures. So in that sense, it's natural that you'll want a controlled set of encounters that follow a plan.
Aha, I found one of the main videos where he breaks down ambiguities from social RP encounters (where things can stall) and everyone taking turns.
[video=youtube;KluTTSrSdrg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KluTTSrSdrg[/youtube]
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1083691Aha, I found one of the main videos where he breaks down ambiguities from social RP encounters (where things can stall) and everyone taking turns.
[video=youtube;KluTTSrSdrg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KluTTSrSdrg[/youtube]
Thanks mAcular Chaotic--I appreciate the work. (I could do without the entry/exit 'music' this time. LOL)
Random notes from listening.
"No system can RP" - I technically agree, but games can do more than expedite (get out of the way). We stole moral code and descriptors from DwD Studios and giving role play guidelines/suggestions/notes for a character's personality certainly helps.
I guess the way our game mechanically supports role play is role playing the plan and character is what gives you bonuses for your rolls.
I feel calling it "mechanic components" gives the wrong impression. What I got from it is the same as most module design: setup situations/problems not solutions. Don't design the "you have to mention the guard's daughter to get the information" solution, setup the situation 'king doubts party, court hates king, fortune to the victor, boy seeks a master'. The actual solution could vary wildly.
Quote from: Omega;1082416Isnt there a nearly identical thread on this here from like last year?
Quote from: Tod13;1082690Yes -- with very little outcome. After a year, it'll be interesting to see if anyone has tried it.
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?36968-What-s-the-deal-with-Index-Card-RPG (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?36968-What-s-the-deal-with-Index-Card-RPG)
More recently,
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?39142-Anyone-ever-played-heard-of-Index-Card-RPG
I agree with ol' Hank; that you only need to know the attribute Modifiers, in d20 roll high D&D. Or, Dungeon World 2d6......
To create a new character; just take +2, +1, +1, +0, +0, -1, and assign to taste.