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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: RPGPundit on June 25, 2020, 07:53:40 PM

Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: RPGPundit on June 25, 2020, 07:53:40 PM
Because I'm fucking sick of people constantly breaking the rules on off-topic posting, I'm making a new policy, effective immediately.

As always, the main forum allows threads on the subject of the RPG hobby, INCLUDING political entryism or other political issues WITHIN the hobby.


From now on, anyone who - TO MY OWN JUDGMENT - takes advantage of this to start posting off the topic of the RPG hobby and into their wider political opinions on the subject, will earn a PERMANENT ban from this forum.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Spinachcat on June 25, 2020, 08:20:45 PM
Are you okay with us discussing the same politicized RPG topic on your forum?
AKA, effectively duplicating the thread.

The USA and UK are an utter shitshow right now and the culture war / political war has exploded full force in the hobby. Pundy, its bad in ways you don't know from watching TV and the internet. Many of us have crazy shit happening in our neighborhoods, in our families and in our companies. I've seen the craziest shit in my life going down in the last few months.

I understand AND RESPECT why you want threads to stay on topic about the RPG industry ONLY on the main forum, but I see difficulty in how anyone supports or criticizes what happening in the RPG hobby without referencing their political opinions because bizarrely, its becoming one and the same in ways not seen before.

Take the "Paizo Apology" thread or the "BLM bundle" threads for instance. Anyone could start one on the RPG Main Forum, and per your rules, that thread MUST stay ONLY about the issue as it regards to the RPG hobby. However, perhaps we could also start one on the RPGPundit Forum which could be allowed to become whatever discussion it becomes.

What are your thoughts?
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Mishihari on June 25, 2020, 10:57:39 PM
I would suggest locking the threads that are currently purely political discussions, so that folks don't get in trouble for continuing their conversation when they haven't seen your warning yet.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Sable Wyvern on June 25, 2020, 11:37:34 PM
Hey Pundit, if you want less politics in this forum, maybe don't include politics in every thread you start here?

While there are some obvious boundaries, you're basically asking people to read the mind of the Pundit and understand when something strays too far from what you consider acceptable.

Either allow politics, or shift it all to Punditry, but this half-arsed shit is just asking for confusion and for people to get as close as possible to whatever boundary you want to enforce.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Mistwell on June 26, 2020, 12:15:35 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1136350

The USA and UK are an utter shitshow right now and the culture war / political war has exploded full force in the hobby. Pundy, its bad in ways you don't know from watching TV and the internet. Many of us have crazy shit happening in our neighborhoods, in our families and in our companies. I've seen the craziest shit in my life going down in the last few months.

And wouldn't it be nice to have a place where you don't get bombarded with that shit, and can just talk about stuff that makes us happy?
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 26, 2020, 12:45:58 AM
Quote from: Mistwell;1136373
And wouldn't it be nice to have a place where you don't get bombarded with that shit, and can just talk about stuff that makes us happy?

RPGs are not that topic. You can't talk coherently about the recent statements by WOTC, Paizo and Gunmetal outside the context of current events.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: GeekEclectic on June 26, 2020, 12:55:36 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1136379
RPGs are not that topic. You can't talk coherently about the recent statements by WOTC, Paizo and Gunmetal outside the context of current events.
That's probably a clue right there. Think about it.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Spinachcat on June 26, 2020, 01:07:20 AM
Quote from: Mistwell;1136373
And wouldn't it be nice to have a place where you don't get bombarded with that shit, and can just talk about stuff that makes us happy?

I've discussed that with RPGPundit in the past and his stance is everyone has free will to click on threads that interest them and avoid threads that do not. I can't argue with that. We are all adults and if we lack the willpower to stop clicking on threads that upset us, that's not Pundy's problem.

This is Mos Eisley. Nobody forces us into the cantina.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Mistwell on June 26, 2020, 01:36:14 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1136379
RPGs are not that topic. You can't talk coherently about the recent statements by WOTC, Paizo and Gunmetal outside the context of current events.

Why are "recent statements by WOTC" things you put in the category of "stuff that makes us happy"?

It's an RPG board. Not a stock discussion board where we talk about public statements of corporations. Why can't we talk about the actual fucking games more, and the thoughts of the people who work for game companies about companies less?
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Mistwell on June 26, 2020, 01:38:34 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1136382
I've discussed that with RPGPundit in the past and his stance is everyone has free will to click on threads that interest them and avoid threads that do not. I can't argue with that. We are all adults and if we lack the willpower to stop clicking on threads that upset us, that's not Pundy's problem.

This is Mos Eisley. Nobody forces us into the cantina.

Heal thyself, physician. It's you bitching about Pundit asking people to stop finding excuses to peddle their political messages, remember?

I'd say between you and me, it's you who is risking perma-ban due to willpower issues, not me mang. I'm trying to talk you into not going down that road. You have the free will to continue to rage about SJWs in general and then get permanently banned (he's warned you more than once). OR, you have the free will to decide maybe you're not so good at keeping it to just RPG politics and so the smartest path is to just focus more on the stuff that brings you joy with RPGs.

Which, for what it's worth, I happen to think is your best stuff. Often brilliant. It would suck to lose that because of the 180th "SJWs suck!" post of the week which accidentally crosses the line.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Shasarak on June 26, 2020, 01:42:02 AM
I am old enough to remember the time when every RPG company was not desperately shoving all their political nonsense into their RPGs.

[rant]No, I am not donating to your latest pet project.

No, I am not changing my world because you suddenly think Orcs are racist.

No, I am not going to change my murder hoboing ways because you think that everyone should be getting their XPs from sitting around singing kumbaya.

No, I dont care if you think there is racism in my game, you look after your game and make it as milk toast as you want.

Just fucking no, you fucks.
[/rant]
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 26, 2020, 01:45:58 AM
Quote from: Mistwell;1136385
Why are "recent statements by WOTC" things you put in the category of "stuff that makes us happy"?

I put RPGs and games in general in the category of stuff that makes me happy. WOTC makes RPGs and card games. They are not only making statements but changing their product based on current events.

Quote
It's an RPG board. Not a stock discussion board where we talk about public statements of corporations. Why can't we talk about the actual fucking games more, and the thoughts of the people who work for game companies about companies less?

It never ceases to amuse me that there are people bitching about RPG threads on topics they don't like, when they could be participating in the threads they do like.

Let me hold your hand and get you started.

https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42254-Any-advantage-to-OSRIC
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42241-Current-WoTC-aside-what-does-your-perfect-D-amp-D-edition-look-like
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42252-DIY-5-5e-of-DyD
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42136-State-of-Shadowrun-6e-today
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42249-Hex-Crawl-World-Building-Systems
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42250-The-definitive-Shadowrun
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42206-Increasing-Challenge-Earned-Feelings-in-Games
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42220-Looking-for-an-ancient-Greek-RPG-WITHOUT-elves-dwarves-etc
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42172-NO-POLITICS-What-are-you-most-excited-to-play-next
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42148-Old-West-the-Pecos-and-Sources-for-Maps
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42215-What-RPG-stuff-are-you-burned-out-on
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42149-Help-with-1920-s-1980-s-Income-and-equipment-tables
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42242-Gonzo-RPGs-Which-is-your-favorite

That's just the first page, and not even all of it.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: RPGPundit on June 26, 2020, 01:59:45 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1136350
Are you okay with us discussing the same politicized RPG topic on your forum?


If people want to talk about a political subject on the RPGPundit's forum, they can try to post it, and if it's of interest to me I'll allow it. There's no reason to duplicate the thread.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: RPGPundit on June 26, 2020, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: Sable Wyvern;1136371
Hey Pundit, if you want less politics in this forum, maybe don't include politics in every thread you start here?



I want the discussion on this forum to stick to the subject of RPGs, including the politics of RPGs.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Spinachcat on June 26, 2020, 06:03:41 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1136391
If people want to talk about a political subject on the RPGPundit's forum, they can try to post it, and if it's of interest to me I'll allow it. There's no reason to duplicate the thread.


The reason to duplicate the thread would be to discuss the political aspects of a certain RPG hobby issue that you don't want discussed on the main forum.

AKA, the GunMetal thread is about the author deleting a chapter about cops from his cyberpunk Kickstarter because the author is shitting himself over BLM idiocy. As I understand your current decision, people couldn't discuss the BLM idiocy part of the author's reasoning. Thus, we'd need to open a thread in your forum to discuss that half (or more) of the RPG hobby issue because its most certainly going to be political.


Quote from: Mistwell;1136386
It's you bitching about Pundit asking people to stop finding excuses to peddle their political messages, remember?


I'm not bitching about Pundit's decision. I want clarification because I don't understand how it works and what the parameters are for what is acceptable in the main forum regarding a "politics in the RPG hobby" topics.


Quote from: Mistwell;1136386
You have the free will to continue to rage about SJWs in general and then get permanently banned (he's warned you more than once).


Banned? SO FUCKING WHAT!!

Do you think for one fucking second that I care if I'm permanently banned or not?

Do you think that I am going to somehow bend? Are you fucking kicking me?

I've got a LONG history of burning bridges and not giving a damn.

I will say whatever I will say.

RPGPundit will do whatever RPGPundit does.

I like Pundy, but getting banned would just mean my damn RPG gets done faster!
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Tom Kalbfus on June 26, 2020, 09:07:11 AM
The thing I find on other rpg sites is that their no politics rule is often enforced inconsistently. On Paizo for example, I try to avoid politics, and then somebody else drops their politics into the discussion, usually by trashing America or conservatives, and I respond and get banned while the other guy does not! I don't really want to discuss politics, I want to discuss role playing games, but left-wing politics enters the forum with no consequences, while conservatives who respond get banned, so we end up like human pin cushions, we have to take abuse from left-wingers, and if we counter argue and refute their points we get banned.

Other places such as Giant in the Playground, real world settings such as medeaval Europe or use of real world religions, even if they are ancient religions such as those the entries in Deities & Demigods is based on is banned, because there are a few people in the real world who actually worship Thor for instance. I like the real world gods and goddesses from the Greek and Norse Pantheons rather than the made for RPG pantheons of the Forgotten Realms. This is because the people who thought up Thor and Odin didn't do so to satisfy the requirements of a role playing game, but for a real society that existed at that time.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Omega on June 26, 2020, 09:24:13 AM
Bemusingly bringing Pundit's thread on topic of RPGs.

One reason we have fantasy pantheons if to shut the hell up the religious nuts out there. And because of the SJWs of prior iterations of this disease who bitched about "appropriation" of other cultures religions.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: RandyB on June 26, 2020, 10:26:49 AM
Quote from: Omega;1136438
Bemusingly bringing Pundit's thread on topic of RPGs.

One reason we have fantasy pantheons if to shut the hell up the religious nuts out there. And because of the SJWs of prior iterations of this disease who bitched about "appropriation" of other cultures religions.


History of RPGs 101: fantasy pantheons - e.g. Nehwon, Greyhawk - were included in D&D long before any religious nuts got wind of the game and started bitching.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: hedgehobbit on June 26, 2020, 10:55:05 AM
Quote from: Mistwell;1136385
Why can't we talk about the actual fucking games more, and the thoughts of the people who work for game companies about companies less?

Because if you remove all the political BS from the current RPG industry, there isn't anything to talk about. There hasn't been a significant mechanical innovation in RPGs in over a decade and all we are getting is slightly modified versions of things that have been done multiple times in the past; a slightly modified version of Cyberpunk, a slightly modified version of Pathfinder, a slightly modified version of Twilight 2000, etc, etc, etc.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Trinculoisdead on June 26, 2020, 12:26:32 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1136460
Because if you remove all the political BS from the current RPG industry, there isn't anything to talk about. There hasn't been a significant mechanical innovation in RPGs in over a decade and all we are getting is slightly modified versions of things that have been done multiple times in the past; a slightly modified version of Cyberpunk, a slightly modified version of Pathfinder, a slightly modified version of Twilight 2000, etc, etc, etc.

I disagree. I think we could start a thread about that.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Tom Kalbfus on June 26, 2020, 12:48:40 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1136460
Because if you remove all the political BS from the current RPG industry, there isn't anything to talk about. There hasn't been a significant mechanical innovation in RPGs in over a decade and all we are getting is slightly modified versions of things that have been done multiple times in the past; a slightly modified version of Cyberpunk, a slightly modified version of Pathfinder, a slightly modified version of Twilight 2000, etc, etc, etc.

I mentioned the trouble I got in for suggesting a revision for Twilight 2000 because a political situation was embedded into the game, the main assumption being that the Cold War continues until the Twilight War (World War III) the superpowers destroy each other and the players try to survive the aftermath. When the Cold War ended I suggested my ideas for a different Twilight 2000. Like for instance, what of some hostile Arab country gets nuclear weapons and uses them in a terrorist attack on the United States, but that would be unfair to Muslims and arabs to make them the enemy. Well someone has to be the enemy in a game like Twilight 2000, in the past it was the Soviet Union, and that was acceptable back then, but now? Nope, can't be the arabs because that's bigoted, can't be the Chinese because that's racist, who are the bad guys going to be? The only acceptable answer for the left was the United States of America!
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: VisionStorm on June 26, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1136390
I put RPGs and games in general in the category of stuff that makes me happy. WOTC makes RPGs and card games. They are not only making statements but changing their product based on current events.



It never ceases to amuse me that there are people bitching about RPG threads on topics they don't like, when they could be participating in the threads they do like.

Let me hold your hand and get you started.

https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42254-Any-advantage-to-OSRIC
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42241-Current-WoTC-aside-what-does-your-perfect-D-amp-D-edition-look-like
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42252-DIY-5-5e-of-DyD
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42136-State-of-Shadowrun-6e-today
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42249-Hex-Crawl-World-Building-Systems
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42250-The-definitive-Shadowrun
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42206-Increasing-Challenge-Earned-Feelings-in-Games
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42220-Looking-for-an-ancient-Greek-RPG-WITHOUT-elves-dwarves-etc
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42172-NO-POLITICS-What-are-you-most-excited-to-play-next
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42148-Old-West-the-Pecos-and-Sources-for-Maps
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42215-What-RPG-stuff-are-you-burned-out-on
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42149-Help-with-1920-s-1980-s-Income-and-equipment-tables
https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42242-Gonzo-RPGs-Which-is-your-favorite

That's just the first page, and not even all of it.


I wish some of those threads got more traction so I could discuss some of my RPG pet peeves and ideas, and I don't even mind having political discussions or dissecting idiotic corporate statements. But I guess bitching about what other people are discussing is more important.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1136414
The reason to duplicate the thread would be to discuss the political aspects of a certain RPG hobby issue that you don't want discussed on the main forum.

AKA, the GunMetal thread is about the author deleting a chapter about cops from his cyberpunk Kickstarter because the author is shitting himself over BLM idiocy. As I understand your current decision, people couldn't discuss the BLM idiocy part of the author's reasoning. Thus, we'd need to open a thread in your forum to discuss that half (or more) of the RPG hobby issue because its most certainly going to be political.




I'm not bitching about Pundit's decision. I want clarification because I don't understand how it works and what the parameters are for what is acceptable in the main forum regarding a "politics in the RPG hobby" topics.




Banned? SO FUCKING WHAT!!

Do you think for one fucking second that I care if I'm permanently banned or not?

Do you think that I am going to somehow bend? Are you fucking kicking me?

I've got a LONG history of burning bridges and not giving a damn.

I will say whatever I will say.

RPGPundit will do whatever RPGPundit does.

I like Pundy, but getting banned would just mean my damn RPG gets done faster!


I agree. Some of these discussions are damn near impossible to have without delving into non-RPG politics. The politics of the day are too entwined into the majority of these issues to discuss them without getting into non-RPG politics at some point. It's like freaking walking through eggshells.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: estar on June 26, 2020, 01:08:38 PM
Quote from: Sable Wyvern;1136371
Either allow politics, or shift it all to Punditry, but this half-arsed shit is just asking for confusion and for people to get as close as possible to whatever boundary you want to enforce.
Exactly what I said when I was moderator. Except he considers the Punditry a ghetto which doesn't have the traffic he wants for the stuff he wants to post about which happen to involve a great deal of... punditry.

It been amply demonstrated that if a gaming forum want to continue to talk about gaming it the political talk whether it within or without the hobby need to put aside in another play. Otherwise we get the situation we have now whether every other thread is about one political issue or another.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: estar on June 26, 2020, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1136460
Because if you remove all the political BS from the current RPG industry, there isn't anything to talk about. There hasn't been a significant mechanical innovation in RPGs in over a decade and all we are getting is slightly modified versions of things that have been done multiple times in the past; a slightly modified version of Cyberpunk, a slightly modified version of Pathfinder, a slightly modified version of Twilight 2000, etc, etc, etc.


I am having no trouble finding places to read and participate in interesting discussion about tabletop roleplaying including new ideas in regards to mechanics.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: estar on June 26, 2020, 01:13:07 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1136392
I want the discussion on this forum to stick to the subject of RPGs, including the politics of RPGs.

Yet here we are with you starting this particular thread that resulted from the consequences of allowing a wideranging discussion on the politics of RPGs.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 26, 2020, 01:19:24 PM
Quote from: estar;1136510
I am having no trouble finding places to read and participate in interesting discussion about tabletop roleplaying including new ideas in regards to mechanics.

For now. And you still come here as well.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Steven Mitchell on June 26, 2020, 01:37:59 PM
I don't think it matters much where the line is drawn as far as traffic to this sight.  Not long term anyway. What is going to happen with with people on one side of the line or another:

A. People will cross it can get banned.  No traffic from them.
B. People will avoid those threads and not get banned.  No additional traffic from them, maybe slightly less due to all the avoiding things.
C. People will try to talk about the thing inside the lines.  They'll have less to say.  Less traffic.
D. People will be passive/aggressive dicks or even trolls, with the goal of shutting the topic down and/or trying to tempt someone from groups B or C into a momentary slip and thus get them banned.  More traffic, but do you want it?

Since there is no way to write firm rules that will stop D, traffic in those posts will trend to that nature over time.  Or pundit could start banning them, but then that doesn't fit the "wild west" feel here or generate traffic.  (It might increase traffic in the long run, but that's a philosophical and prudential discussion that doesn't belong in this topic, I think.)

With the usual caveat and the reminder that I don't think anything works well, I would suggest as a trial a different policy:  People have started putting the "No Politics" tag on topics.  Instead, invert it. "No Politics" is the default.  Talk about politics at all in normal thread, suffer the penalties.  If you want to talk the approved gaming politics in a topic, tag it with "Politics" or "Game Politics" or whatever makes the most sense.  I mean, Pundit already titles his gaming politics topics such that it is usually obvious that this is the case.  This just make it more clear.  If there is a gaming politics slant to a normal topic, start a new topic with the correct header.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: estar on June 26, 2020, 01:46:40 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1136513
For now. And you still come here as well.
However my posting has dropped off considerably.

As for the other places for some it does remain to seen due to the fact I went there as a result of Google Plus shutdown. The other however I been posting for as long or longer than this site.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: estar on June 26, 2020, 01:49:15 PM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1136515
With the usual caveat and the reminder that I don't think anything works well, I would suggest as a trial a different policy:  People have started putting the "No Politics" tag on topics.  Instead, invert it. "No Politics" is the default.  Talk about politics at all in normal thread, suffer the penalties.  If you want to talk the approved gaming politics in a topic, tag it with "Politics" or "Game Politics" or whatever makes the most sense.  I mean, Pundit already titles his gaming politics topics such that it is usually obvious that this is the case.  This just make it more clear.  If there is a gaming politics slant to a normal topic, start a new topic with the correct header.
I can live with this. However just be aware I proposed something similar and the discussion still boiled to that the Pundit thinks it puts topics he cares about into a ghetto.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: SHARK on June 26, 2020, 02:34:38 PM
Greetings!

Well, I certainly enjoy engaging in topical gaming discussions. However, honestly, such topics do not tend to be very robust or long lasting, especially when compared to political discussions. Strictly speaking, philosophically, you can have such separate discussions, but I do not believe they are that advantageous or positive, even though I may like them. I think it is much better to have freedom of speech, and to be free to engage in whatever discussion that people want to. I think of this place as kind of like getting together with my friends at the local Sunrise Café, or Texas Roadhouse, where we eat, drink, and hang out together, talking about whatever. When getting together with some buddies, having a cigar, having some drinks together, there's no person that comes over to your table and says, "Now now, we can't be discussing politics or religion!" Or whatever, you know? You talk about whatever you want. Beyond that, I also think that people gathering together engage in discussions that range about, or also include tangents, asides, references, and examples. That's just normal human socialization. It's the way we talk.

Then you have the dynamic where "politics" has become intertwined in EVERYTHING today. Whether for good or bad, that's just the way it is. In contrast, for example, you have the RPGPUB that attempts to remain "politics free" though there does seem to be some bias there. Regardless, overall such an environment seems to be artificially sweet, chewy and dull. I think that the overall tendency for being boring and dull is derived precisely from the impositions on freedom of speech, if that makes any sense. The discussions become stilted, and unnatural.

Having said all that, I think amongst friends we can police ourselves. "Hey, lets get the discussion back on topic" I think is fine, and welcome, for thread starters that want to keep a discussion focused. Then again, as I mentioned earlier, people naturally digress, go off on tangents and side arguments, cite examples, and on and on. I believe that is how we normally communicate with each other.

I am in favour of embracing freedom of speech.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Slipshot762 on June 26, 2020, 04:28:35 PM
It gets harder and harder these days to not let tangenital politics rouse wrath and ire, drawing you away from a core topic to rave at insanity. Especially just now with admitted communist sedition destroying monuments, cities, and general peace of mind, doubly so given that I been warning about communists for more than ten years only to be laughed at and dismissed for my troubles. If this thread is in any part the result of my recent ranting allergic reaction to the insulting notion that I or anyone else should "apologize for being white" I do tender humble forbearance for unintended strife caused on my part. That said, I meant what I said, I stand by it, I'll sign my name to it and I'll set it in stone if need be. Beyond that, for my part, I shall endeavor to not further let slip thunderous wrath at such provocation and will attempt to ignore political angles or tangents if I'm able to recognize them as such, and bow out with the acknowledgement that I have to stop speaking or I'm going to hurt some feelings.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4611[/ATTACH]
I reckon everyone squarely knows now that I got nothing but aggression and spite for anti-white BS and I shouldn't have to make that apparent with another rant. God bless the lot of you anyway, even the ugly ones.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Mistwell on June 27, 2020, 01:44:22 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1136414



Banned? SO FUCKING WHAT!!

Do you think for one fucking second that I care if I'm permanently banned or not?

Do you think that I am going to somehow bend? Are you fucking kicking me?

I've got a LONG history of burning bridges and not giving a damn.

I will say whatever I will say.

RPGPundit will do whatever RPGPundit does.

I like Pundy, but getting banned would just mean my damn RPG gets done faster!


To be clear, I explained in my post. I wasn't wondering if you cared. I said it was a greedy thing for me. *I* don't want you banned. I think it would lessen the value of this place to me.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Mistwell on June 27, 2020, 01:46:22 AM
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1136460
Because if you remove all the political BS from the current RPG industry, there isn't anything to talk about. There hasn't been a significant mechanical innovation in RPGs in over a decade and all we are getting is slightly modified versions of things that have been done multiple times in the past; a slightly modified version of Cyberpunk, a slightly modified version of Pathfinder, a slightly modified version of Twilight 2000, etc, etc, etc.

Seriously dude you cannot think of anything to talk about concerning role playing games other than politics of RPG games? You can't think of anything to talk about unless it's new mechanics? Come on hedge. You can think of plenty of things to talk about and I've seen you talk about them.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: RPGPundit on June 27, 2020, 04:15:13 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm;1136508
I wish some of those threads got more traction so I could discuss some of my RPG pet peeves and ideas, and I don't even mind having political discussions or dissecting idiotic corporate statements. But I guess bitching about what other people are discussing is more important.



I agree. Some of these discussions are damn near impossible to have without delving into non-RPG politics. The politics of the day are too entwined into the majority of these issues to discuss them without getting into non-RPG politics at some point. It's like freaking walking through eggshells.

 

Then let me give you an example: let's say, in a contemporary case, some RPG company makes a public apology for slavery and promises to donate a percentage of their income to BLM. You can talk about BLM in the context of the company, it's decisions, and the hobby in general. But if someone goes from there to make a post only talks about what BLM is doing outside of the hobby, that's a violation.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Kyle Aaron on June 27, 2020, 04:21:13 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1136342
From now on -
It was my understanding that this was always the policy. In theory.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: RPGPundit on June 27, 2020, 04:26:54 AM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1136634
It was my understanding that this was always the policy. In theory.

It was. It's the punishment that just got harsher.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Omega on June 27, 2020, 06:32:40 AM
Quote from: RandyB;1136451
History of RPGs 101: fantasy pantheons - e.g. Nehwon, Greyhawk - were included in D&D long before any religious nuts got wind of the game and started bitching.


Nice try Timmy. But 2 of those are pantheons from novels.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: RPGPundit on June 27, 2020, 06:45:33 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1136414
The reason to duplicate the thread would be to discuss the political aspects of a certain RPG hobby issue that you don't want discussed on the main forum.

AKA, the GunMetal thread is about the author deleting a chapter about cops from his cyberpunk Kickstarter because the author is shitting himself over BLM idiocy. As I understand your current decision, people couldn't discuss the BLM idiocy part of the author's reasoning. Thus, we'd need to open a thread in your forum to discuss that half (or more) of the RPG hobby issue because its most certainly going to be political.


They could discuss about BLM as long as it was in the context of the gaming hobby. Start talking about the racial strife in the US outside of the context of gaming, and you're off topic.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Omega on June 27, 2020, 06:50:28 AM
Quote from: Tom Kalbfus;1136504
I mentioned the trouble I got in for suggesting a revision for Twilight 2000 because a political situation was embedded into the game, the main assumption being that the Cold War continues until the Twilight War (World War III) the superpowers destroy each other and the players try to survive the aftermath. When the Cold War ended I suggested my ideas for a different Twilight 2000. Like for instance, what of some hostile Arab country gets nuclear weapons and uses them in a terrorist attack on the United States, but that would be unfair to Muslims and arabs to make them the enemy. Well someone has to be the enemy in a game like Twilight 2000, in the past it was the Soviet Union, and that was acceptable back then, but now? Nope, can't be the arabs because that's bigoted, can't be the Chinese because that's racist, who are the bad guys going to be? The only acceptable answer for the left was the United States of America!


As long as Dead Hand is still armed the cold war is not going to be fully over as the threat of nuclear war still hangs. Exvept its in the hands of a slighjtly twitchy machine. If any other country had a doomsday device as well then thats it. Game over.

At the rate things are going you could have the new T2k setting be communist/marxist Ameriwoke tries to invade Russia, the last bastion of freedom and nukes start flying.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Omega on June 27, 2020, 06:57:00 AM
Quote from: estar;1136509
It been amply demonstrated that if a gaming forum want to continue to talk about gaming it the political talk whether it within or without the hobby need to put aside in another play. Otherwise we get the situation we have now whether every other thread is about one political issue or another.

Thats because of the insane rate things have stepped up in the gaming industry as political agendas impact games more and more. We cant have hardly any game releases or news that isnt somehow now tainted if not out-right pushing these agendas or bending knee to them.

I'd love to talk about some new WOTC product but odds are at this rate its going to be somehow agenda'd no matter. Either in the product itself or some outrage and then submission over one.

We cant even talk about older games without some sociopath half the time butting in and declaring it WACIST! SWEXIST! WHATEVERIST!

Great when we can get such a thread. Theres been a few lately.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: RandyB on June 27, 2020, 08:47:43 AM
Quote from: Omega;1136641
Nice try Timmy. But 2 of those are pantheons from novels.

Oh. You are making an artificial distinction between "made up for gaming" and "made up for novels". How do you classify the pantheons of the Forgotten Realms, which Ed Greenwood made up for his own fantasy writing approximately pre-D&D?
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: VisionStorm on June 27, 2020, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1136633
Then let me give you an example: let's say, in a contemporary case, some RPG company makes a public apology for slavery and promises to donate a percentage of their income to BLM. You can talk about BLM in the context of the company, it's decisions, and the hobby in general. But if someone goes from there to make a post only talks about what BLM is doing outside of the hobby, that's a violation.


That's kinda what I was talking about. If someone starts a thread about some RPG company donating to BLM, then someone else comes in flabbergasted about why anyone not racist would oppose an org like BLM (still somewhat in the context of RPGs, since they're complaining that people are complaining about an RPG company donating to BLM), it becomes basically impossible to address their concerns without violating the rules, since you would have to go into non-RPG details about the issues with BLM.

Even if you skid the line and try to somehow bring it back to RPGs (like saying "...and that's why I don't like X-RPG company donating to BLM," at the end of an otherwise non-RPG post), at some point in the back and forth you're gonna mess up and forget to add the RPG-related mention as padding in between.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Tom Kalbfus on June 27, 2020, 10:25:10 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm;1136669
That's kinda what I was talking about. If someone starts a thread about some RPG company donating to BLM, then someone else comes in flabbergasted about why anyone not racist would oppose an org like BLM (still somewhat in the context of RPGs, since they're complaining that people are complaining about an RPG company donating to BLM), it becomes basically impossible to address their concerns without violating the rules, since you would have to go into non-RPG details about the issues with BLM.

Even if you skid the line and try to somehow bring it back to RPGs (like saying "...and that's why I don't like X-RPG company donating to BLM," at the end of an otherwise non-RPG post), at some point in the back and forth you're gonna mess up and forget to add the RPG-related mention as padding in between.

If the Communists take over America, then we're the bad guys for letting it happen, we could have a civil war instead, but you kind of made my point, the woke crowd will only accept an American bad guy. White people and only white people make acceptable villains to them. In the context of the Forgotten Realms, I can imagine marauders from Cormyr invading orc settlements underground, persecuting and enslaving those poor orc while the orcs heroically fight off the assault from those terrible white-skinned humans.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Kyle Aaron on June 27, 2020, 09:13:38 PM
Quote from: Omega;1136646
At the rate things are going you could have the new T2k setting be communist/marxist Ameriwoke tries to invade Russia, the last bastion of freedom and nukes start flying.
Classic! But the thing is: it doesn't actually matter. In T2K, the PCs are not the national leaders. They're in the shit - a country destroyed by war with chaotic bands of troops from half a dozen different units and nations - and they want to get out of the shit. Why they were there in the shit in the first place doesn't matter.

There's a bit in the Jeremiah tv show - a plague has killed everyone from late adolescence up, 15 years on the plague has apparently gone and the young have inherited the Earth - where Jeremiah meets an old guy in a bunker.
"Who are you?"
"I'm the President of the United States!"
"That makes five now."
The old guy is not impressed at being told of his irrelevance.

It's a postapocalyptic game, and the whole point of a postapocalyptic setting is that the old world has been swept away and is irrelevant - what kind of world are you going to build? With that in mind, if your setting is after a global war, then it doesn't matter who started it or why - those countries and leaders are all gone now anyway.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: RPGPundit on June 28, 2020, 09:30:45 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm;1136669
That's kinda what I was talking about. If someone starts a thread about some RPG company donating to BLM, then someone else comes in flabbergasted about why anyone not racist would oppose an org like BLM (still somewhat in the context of RPGs, since they're complaining that people are complaining about an RPG company donating to BLM), it becomes basically impossible to address their concerns without violating the rules, since you would have to go into non-RPG details about the issues with BLM.

Even if you skid the line and try to somehow bring it back to RPGs (like saying "...and that's why I don't like X-RPG company donating to BLM," at the end of an otherwise non-RPG post), at some point in the back and forth you're gonna mess up and forget to add the RPG-related mention as padding in between.


I think that this initial statement ("I can't see why anyone who isn't racist would oppose BLM") would be answerable, in terms that bring up the broader reasons to oppose the BLM movement and why doing so is not racist, while still keeping it within the discussion of the RPG hobby. The problem tends to emerge when either the OP or other people in the thread very clearly want to abandon the RPG subject completely and start debating each other about the broader national topics. People who clearly respond to a post with something that has nothing at all to do with the specific RPG hobby example are the ones who will get into trouble.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Spinachcat on June 29, 2020, 05:03:20 AM
Does everyone understand the parameters of RPGPundit's new rule?

Be honest. I don't see how people will address broader national issues while simultaneously keeping it within the context of the RPG hobby.

Maybe the death laser barrier will become obvious after a few bannings.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Kyle Aaron on June 29, 2020, 05:21:18 AM
I don't think it's difficult to tie most issues to something in gaming. "So if this were a scenario... and that's why I wrote up this new character class..." etc. Gamers are supposed to have an imagination!
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Steven Mitchell on June 29, 2020, 09:08:58 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1136910
Does everyone understand the parameters of RPGPundit's new rule?

Be honest. I don't see how people will address broader national issues while simultaneously keeping it within the context of the RPG hobby.

Maybe the death laser barrier will become obvious after a few bannings.

I understand the parameters in general.  I don't trust that understanding anywhere near the edge, such that basically VisionStorm's example is a good one for when I'm no longer participating.  But then, my personality is not one to live on the edge anyway, so that it is no great loss for me.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Omega on June 29, 2020, 11:07:45 AM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1136912
Gamers are supposed to have an imagination!

Not anymore.

Imagination and thinking are bad things. They get in the way of being good cattle that are happy to be slaughtered.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: VisionStorm on June 29, 2020, 11:11:58 AM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1136922
I understand the parameters in general.  I don't trust that understanding anywhere near the edge, such that basically VisionStorm's example is a good one for when I'm no longer participating.


This is basically where I'm at right now. I have a general understanding of the parameters, but I'm still not sure exactly where the line is, only the general vicinity of where I might unwittingly cross it. From what I got I get the impression that we may address concerns someone brings up in relation to the topic that may stray into details of broader national issues, but only as a direct response to those types of queries. And anything beyond that could potentially (maybe) get me banned.

The thing is that any reply to that type of questions or statements will almost inevitably lead to further questions and back and forth, demands for evidence that BLM, for example, is truly a "marxist" organization and so on and what not, that will basically just invite you or push you into the danger zone where the invisible line exists. Next thing you know you're like two pages in arguing about the merits of BLM in a thread about a game company donating to them.

Unless you put a stopper to it right from the start and tell them from your first reply that we're not supposed to discuss politics that don't relate to RPGs, but you're gonna answer that one thing and keep it to one post, you're always gonna end up arguing. And that assumes that they care and don't try to pick an argument anyways.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: oggsmash on June 29, 2020, 11:18:27 AM
Anyone asking for validation to the claim BLM is marxist is just trolling or an idiot, or EXTREMELY lazy.  Maybe best to just not answer.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 29, 2020, 12:00:18 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1136910
Does everyone understand the parameters of RPGPundit's new rule?

Be honest. I don't see how people will address broader national issues while simultaneously keeping it within the context of the RPG hobby.


Honestly, no. I feel like the discussion goes off the political rails at the point where someone, for example, says "Wait, why would anyone oppose Black Lives Matter?" In order to answer that question, a person has to go into the culture war and that is a huge tangent from the specific conversation about RPGs.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Brad on June 29, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1136951
Honestly, no. I feel like the discussion goes off the political rails at the point where someone, for example, says "Wait, why would anyone oppose Black Lives Matter?" In order to answer that question, a person has to go into the culture war and that is a huge tangent from the specific conversation about RPGs.

Well in that case, whoever made the that comment should be banned from the thread and a mod should delete it, given what Pundit said. The issue with this board isn't that it's moderated, it's that it isn't moderated hardly at all until WAAAAAAY after the point that the problems started cropping up. Also, there are some people on here who just cannot help themselves and bring their SJW bullshit into every thread, no matter the subject. They enjoy derailing every conversation, specially because they hate the fact this site even exists and they have no control over it. So, again, ban hammer and be done with it.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 29, 2020, 12:25:18 PM
Quote from: Brad;1136955
Well in that case, whoever made the that comment should be banned from the thread and a mod should delete it, given what Pundit said. The issue with this board isn't that it's moderated, it's that it isn't moderated hardly at all until WAAAAAAY after the point that the problems started cropping up. Also, there are some people on here who just cannot help themselves and bring their SJW bullshit into every thread, no matter the subject. They enjoy derailing every conversation, specially because they hate the fact this site even exists and they have no control over it. So, again, ban hammer and be done with it.

The other edge of that sword is that discussion about RPGs has become a minefield of culture war topics, as the threads that sparked this notice demonstrate.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: GeekEclectic on June 29, 2020, 05:37:10 PM
Quote from: Brad;1136955
Well in that case, whoever made the that comment should be banned from the thread and a mod should delete it, given what Pundit said. The issue with this board isn't that it's moderated, it's that it isn't moderated hardly at all until WAAAAAAY after the point that the problems started cropping up. Also, there are some people on here who just cannot help themselves and bring their SJW bullshit into every thread, no matter the subject. They enjoy derailing every conversation, specially because they hate the fact this site even exists and they have no control over it. So, again, ban hammer and be done with it.
This was my thought exactly. If all they said was "Wait, why would anyone oppose Black Lives Matter?" . . . where's the RPG in this? This hypothetical person has already crossed the line. Don't respond to it, maybe use the report function because it's there for a reason, and let them take the fall. Sometimes silence is golden.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Kyle Aaron on June 29, 2020, 07:48:12 PM
Exactly. Just because someone speaks doesn't mean you have to respond. You're a human being possessed of reason and free will, not a monkey in a cage being poked with a stick.

And that's the great thing about tabletop roleplaying games, you have so many choices compared to board games or computer games, you can express your free will... I was going to say your reason and free will, but then I thought of most of the game groups I've had and I'm not sure how many I can say have used their reason.

Anyway, see? You can bring any discussion back to rpgs! Take it as a challenge, you can practice in this thread.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Chris24601 on June 29, 2020, 08:43:13 PM
Quote from: oggsmash;1136944
Anyone asking for validation to the claim BLM is marxist is just trolling or an idiot, or EXTREMELY lazy.  Maybe best to just not answer.

Or answer with "if you need validation of X then you're too stupid to be participating in this conversation about role-playing topic Y."

It's derisive AND on topic.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Sable Wyvern on June 29, 2020, 08:48:51 PM
If the topic is, "I will no longer support gaming company X because they support cause Y", then the question, "What's the problem with cause Y?" is directly relevent to the topic and essential to meaningful conversation, and also apparently banned as not directly relevant to gaming. Hence the problem with Pundit's whole attitude to politics in the main forum.

The real, hard boundary can't be explicitly defined, and amounts to, "Pundit will know it when he sees it."

Which is why I believe the rule should either be free-for all, or everything political to Pungency.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: VisionStorm on June 29, 2020, 09:27:19 PM
I'm sure that thoroughly dismissing or outright banning people for having the audacity to ask why anyone would oppose BLM will not be used by detractors as ammunition to claim that this is some sort of "alt-right" forum full hypocrites who don't really believe in free speech, or unwittingly lead to it becoming an echo chamber where everyone just agrees with each other. :rolleyes:
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: SHARK on June 29, 2020, 09:29:28 PM
Quote from: Sable Wyvern;1137049
If the topic is, "I will no longer support gaming company X because they support cause Y", then the question, "What's the problem with cause Y?" is directly relevent to the topic and essential to meaningful conversation, and also apparently banned as not directly relevant to gaming. Hence the problem with Pundit's whole attitude to politics in the main forum.

The real, hard boundary can't be explicitly defined, and amounts to, "Pundit will know it when he sees it."

Which is why I believe the rule should either be free-for all, or everything political to Pungency.

Greetings!

Yeah, I agree with you, Sable Wyvern. Either free for all, or everything political goes in Pungency. For myself, since despite Pundit's efforts at "clarification" it still seems murky and uncertain. I'm supposed to scrutinize every aspect of every conversation I'm in--and also shuffle and worry about if any response I make is somehow to be determined as "Inappropriately Political"? Thanks, but no thanks. I'll just keep my commentary Rated G in the main forum.

I honestly like the gunslinger syndrome even in the main forum. Like I have often made the analogy, when you get together with friends at a bar for wings, beer, and cigars, who stands over your shoulder telling you that you can't talk about A or B? No one does that. One of the main refreshing aspects of this site has been that feeling of freedom. Conversations flow and move about as people talk. It's how people talk. To somehow police everyone's speech just seems so unnatural to me. If someone gets into a tangent argument with someone else in a thread, well, fuck 'em, they get ban hammered if the discussion is political? As we have been experiencing, what aspect of our life, society, and culture, ISN'T POLITICAL? Everything is political. Everything has political roots and ramifications.

So, I get that some of the more political arguments may get annoying--they do for me as well, at times--I believe having a more free for all policy is better.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Shasarak on June 29, 2020, 09:52:21 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm;1137055
I'm sure that thoroughly dismissing or outright banning people for having the audacity to ask why anyone would oppose BLM will not be used by detractors as ammunition to claim that this is some sort of "alt-right" forum full hypocrites who don't really believe in free speech, or unwittingly lead to it becoming an echo chamber where everyone just agrees with each other. :rolleyes:

Rabble rabble  I agree  rabble rabble.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Kyle Aaron on June 29, 2020, 10:18:10 PM
Quote from: Chris24601;1137047
Or answer with "if you need validation of X then you're too stupid to be participating in this conversation about role-playing topic Y."

It's derisive AND on topic.
And that's important skill of a DM. A DM acts as a moderator in the old debate class sense, ensuring everyone has a turn and remains on topic. Players will of course occasionally go off on tangents, but when the tangent becomes the main time-user at the game table, the game suffers. Sometimes the DM needs to steer things gently, sometimes they need to be derisive.

Quote from: Sable Wyvern;1137049
The real, hard boundary can't be explicitly defined, and amounts to, "Pundit will know it when he sees it."
Another DMing skill is using common sense. "I know it when I see it" is a series of rulings at the game table. Invariably, players have no problem with arbitrary ruling which favour them, but often have problems with arbitrary rulings which go against them. And this is why the DM wears the Viking Hat, to slap down any whinging.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1137055
I'm sure that thoroughly dismissing or outright banning people for having the audacity to ask why anyone would oppose BLM will not be used by detractors as ammunition to claim that this is some sort of "alt-right" forum full hypocrites who don't really believe in free speech, or unwittingly lead to it becoming an echo chamber where everyone just agrees with each other. :rolleyes:
A good game group will be indifferent to the opinions of other gamers about their play. And arbitrary rulings by the DM prohibiting excessive off-topic talk at the game table do not ever lead to the game group becoming an echo chamber, they lead to the game group focusing on the game.

Quote from: SHARK;1137056
when you get together with friends at a bar for wings, beer, and cigars, who stands over your shoulder telling you that you can't talk about A or B? No one does that.
That's the difference between a group gathering for purely social reasons, and a group gathering for a social creative hobby. Pure social gatherings do not require very strong boundaries. Social gatherings which are also for an rpg session, for a football game or whatever, do require some boundaries. Being at a D&D session and complaining that the DM expects you to play D&D is like being at a football game and complaining that the referee won't let you shoot hoops. That's not what you're there for.

Quote from: Shasarak;1137058
Rabble rabble  I agree  rabble rabble.
Random interjections from players rarely help the flow of the game session. Wait for your turn in combat.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Sable Wyvern on June 29, 2020, 10:30:40 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1137066

Another DMing skill is using common sense. "I know it when I see it" is a series of rulings at the game table. Invariably, players have no problem with arbitrary ruling which favour them, but often have problems with arbitrary rulings which go against them. And this is why the DM wears the Viking Hat, to slap down any whinging.

And, if the players aren't clear on the boundaries, PCs will be killed off when they misjudge how the DM is going to rule. Fortunately, if the DM is consistent and the players pay attention, they will eventually learn from their mistakes and reach an understanding of what works and what doesn't in the DM's world.

Of course, that doesn't work if PC death also involves the player being booted permanently from the game.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Kyle Aaron on June 29, 2020, 11:02:39 PM
Ah, but that player will learn an important lesson! As will their comrades.

I was booted from my first game group. I learned a lesson: run my own group!
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Sable Wyvern on June 29, 2020, 11:13:19 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1137078
Ah, but that player will learn an important lesson! As will their comrades.

I was booted from my first game group. I learned a lesson: run my own group!

I have to say, you are one of the most annoying posters here. In part, because no matter how much shit you talk, there is pretty much always at least a kernel of truth in there somewhere. :D
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: VisionStorm on June 29, 2020, 11:55:43 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1137066
A good game group will be indifferent to the opinions of other gamers about their play. And arbitrary rulings by the DM prohibiting excessive off-topic talk at the game table do not ever lead to the game group becoming an echo chamber, they lead to the game group focusing on the game.


Until the DM is forced to close shop, because the group was playing in an online platform where the DM relied on paid adds and traffic, as well as promoting his own products, to generate revenue to keep the platform running, support his expensive hobby and keep the players entertained. But with dwindling traffic due to mounting defamation from his detractors, as well as his own reputation for permanently expulsing players from his campaign for asking simple questions (as you suggest), he was eventually no longer able to maintain the platform.

So the players are forced to disband and look for another game group, but no one will have them because others had been spreading rumors, unchallenged, that they were Neo-Nazis for too long, and now everyone regards as such and don't want them in their group. So now they're unable to either talk off-topic or focus on the game.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Spinachcat on June 30, 2020, 12:10:10 AM
Fuck it. The more I think about this, the more getting banned sounds kinda fun.

I'm living in an America on self-destruct. Ain't got the energy to care about game forum "decorum".  

Getting banned just means becoming a lurker. AKA, being able to gain anything useful from theRPGsite without adding anything.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: VisionStorm on June 30, 2020, 01:00:53 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1137092
Fuck it. The more I think about this, the more getting banned sounds kinda fun.

I'm living in an America on self-destruct. Ain't got the energy to care about game forum "decorum".  

Getting banned just means becoming a lurker. AKA, being able to gain anything useful from theRPGsite without adding anything.


If Kyle (and others) has his way you probably won't be the one getting banned, though. It'll be people asking impertinent questions, like "Why would anyone oppose BLM?" So we'll able to complain about company X supporting BLM unimpeded--with minimal risk of getting banned--cuz there'd be no one to even object to our complaints and tempt us into straying into discussing broader national issues by addressing their concerns. So we'd be keeping the political talk within the confines of the RPG hobby, by virtue of being the only side of the discussion present.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Kyle Aaron on June 30, 2020, 01:56:01 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm;1137088
Until the DM is forced to close shop, because the group was playing in an online platform where the DM relied on paid adds and traffic -
What the fuck are you talking about?
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: VisionStorm on June 30, 2020, 02:28:46 AM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1137113
What the fuck are you talking about?


Damn, I should've asked you that same question instead of following your silly metaphors!

Anyways, scroll all the way up, then look at the upper right corner.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Opaopajr on June 30, 2020, 07:16:41 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1137092
Fuck it. The more I think about this, the more getting banned sounds kinda fun.

I'm living in an America on self-destruct. Ain't got the energy to care about game forum "decorum".  

Getting banned just means becoming a lurker. AKA, being able to gain anything useful from theRPGsite without adding anything.

Kumbaya, Spinichcat. :) Chill your tits and flame out another day, for this too shall pass -- and we need each other to slap each other in the face to remind us when we are playing the badwrongfun. :D

Besides it's in the friction that a lot of good RPG campaign fodder is made! Like for myself, my germinating In Nomine game where Demon Prince of Factions use PC-Police politics as a tool alongside Demon Princess of Freedom anti-social behavior to bring civil unrest and oppression to a modern world is writing itself out in exciting ways that surprise even me! I mean who expected a return of, let alone coalition with, the Demon Prince of Disease? :D I am most amused. :D I was thinking of a way to have Demon Prince of Lust work with Archangel of Flowers to end this rush towards Apocalypse... but most of the player character quests from that angle seem like a bizarre international "opposites attract" hate-fuck spiral of orgiastic proportions. I should write in another factor in their 'Save the World Coalition' -- I am thinking Archangel of Judgment, but that might be too odd, perhaps Archangel of Stone? (It'd have to be deep ops covert... or a play for a return of an Archangel of Love? Maybe one of the last of Andre's servitors picking up the old word from the Seraphim Council?)

Just relax, don't let the vibe of the times get under your skin! :) There's so much good gaming to talk about!
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: GeekEclectic on June 30, 2020, 07:10:23 PM
Quote from: Sable Wyvern;1137049
If the topic is, "I will no longer support gaming company X because they support cause Y", then the question, "What's the problem with cause Y?" is directly relevent to the topic and essential to meaningful conversation, and also apparently banned as not directly relevant to gaming. Hence the problem with Pundit's whole attitude to politics in the main forum.
Still seems pretty simple to me. If you have to go clearly out of bounds to respond to someone, assuming that person hasn't already crossed those bounds, and you can't find some other in-bounds aspect of the original issue to talk about, then perhaps the conversation has run its course. If you're unsure, well, that's on you and maybe you should just stay golden in such cases. Easy peasy, I expect to be here another 10 years lest I leave voluntarileezy.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: RPGPundit on June 30, 2020, 10:46:38 PM
Jesus, people, is it really this difficult for you to not talk about general politics in the RPG thread? Even when you can talk about general politics in the Pundit's forum?!
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Jfrog on July 01, 2020, 09:10:01 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1137314
Jesus, people, is it really this difficult for you to not talk about general politics in the RPG thread? Even when you can talk about general politics in the Pundit's forum?!

The problem for me is that I view general politics and rpg politics as interrelated and interconnected with no clear line separating them.  And Why?  Because it's the same underlying ideology that causes both and IMO if that can't be talked about then I'm afraid all we will get is a bunch of flaming on both sides as the actual issues causing that flaming can't be discussed where it comes up.

Not saying I won't try to abide by that rule but it has the potential to make many normal discussion flows feel like I am walking through a minefield.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Manic Modron on July 01, 2020, 03:47:19 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1137314
Jesus, people, is it really this difficult for you to not talk about general politics in the RPG thread? Even when you can talk about general politics in the Pundit's forum?!

Poster A: I say, those bounders at Acme Game Co are uo to some parliamentary schenanigans!

Poster B: Zounds, I don't care for that one bit!

Poster C: Pray, good fellow, would you care to expound on these notions?

Pundit: What devilry confounds your efforts to remain on task?  Though I am loathe to do so, I have a mind to escort you to the exit by summary force!

Pundit, for your own sanity, just make an industry forum apart from pure gaming.  Your sand-line is pretty arbitrary and is going to cause a lot of people to stumble over it in the course of normal conversation.  It is a half assed measure and I'm afraid it is going to need more heavy handed moderation than your personal philosophy is going to be comfortable with.

But hey, I have no real dog in this fight, so spike your blood pressure all you want.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: RPGPundit on July 02, 2020, 10:25:11 PM
Quote from: Manic Modron;1137440
Poster A: I say, those bounders at Acme Game Co are uo to some parliamentary schenanigans!

Poster B: Zounds, I don't care for that one bit!

Poster C: Pray, good fellow, would you care to expound on these notions?

Pundit: What devilry confounds your efforts to remain on task?  Though I am loathe to do so, I have a mind to escort you to the exit by summary force!

Except that this is not what I'm saying. AS LONG AS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CONTEXT OF WHAT/HOW/WHY THE SJWS ARE DOING SOMETHING IN THE HOBBY, THAT'S FINE. There's no problem with that, the problem is when someone else shows up and says "Yeah, and let me tell you about something else I hate about Democrats that has nothing to do with RPGs" or "they're doing this other non-gaming related thing in schools" or "Yes but President Orange Man is doing this terribly bad thing that has nothing to do with the D&D hobby so how can you say you're not a racist?"
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Jfrog on July 03, 2020, 10:09:41 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1137687
Except that this is not what I'm saying. AS LONG AS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CONTEXT OF WHAT/HOW/WHY THE SJWS ARE DOING SOMETHING IN THE HOBBY, THAT'S FINE. There's no problem with that, the problem is when someone else shows up and says "Yeah, and let me tell you about something else I hate about Democrats that has nothing to do with RPGs" or "they're doing this other non-gaming related thing in schools" or "Yes but President Orange Man is doing this terribly bad thing that has nothing to do with the D&D hobby so how can you say you're not a racist?"

That makes much more sense. Thank you.
Title: An important notice on political threads in the main forum
Post by: Mishihari on August 28, 2020, 08:10:08 PM
I suppose if if someone posts something both stupid and political, you can just say "Wow, you're an idiot!" and refute them without going into politics yourself at all