My 3.5E campaign right now needs an NPC specialized in digging out lore and knowledge from ancient ruins. I want to make clear upfront that I'm not looking for an Indiana Jones/Lara Croft kind of character. More like Father Merrin from "The Exorcist".
First question, of course: is there a similar "Prestige Class" already around?
Let's say there isn't one. How would you build it. My thoughts:
Good Arcane Knowledge. History skill is a must, as the various "Spot", "Search" and "Gather Informations" ones are. Find/disarm traps can be of obvious utility, as, "Survival" and, maybe "Use Magical Device". Architecture, Appraise and other skills useful to evaluate if the ruins are elven or built by the toad people are also useful.
Spellwise, "Detect This & That" (objects, good/evil, magic, traps...), remove curse (eh!) and similar should be included in the Archeologist list.
Also notice how I think it's a given that an Archeologist almost never works alone, but has a small party of "specialists" working in his team (like in the real world). However, it would be part of his adventuring background to be able to "go out there and map some elven portals in forgotten ruins", or whatever, if needed by his king/organization/others.
Again, I plan to create such a prestige class for 3.5E. Thoughts?
There is a Tomb Robber prestige class in Macho Women With Guns D20 that could work with a bit of hammering.
I would use the Expert class variant from Unearthed Arcana (p. 77).
I guess it depends a little on the game world. Even though you aren't looking for a Lora Croft kind of person, it would make a lot of sense. D&D worlds are dangerous. Rangers are one of the only characters that do well alone and away from civilization. It isn't like real life where you can walk off into the woods by yourself where the closest thing to dangerous goblins you find are pot farmers.
This character is probably going to be someone who already loved adventuring and found out he was good at it. I'd say the typical person in this line of work served as a soldier in the kings army, was a noble and able to attend university, and then moved out to the frontier. Knowing what he wanted to do with his life, and being obviously smart, he picked up the survival skills he needed while a soldier.
I'd make the class as close to a ranger as possible. Maybe even make it a prestige class geared for them. No matter what, it should have at least a cleric's BAB because the person knows he is going to be fighting dangerous animals and goblins in the tombs when he gets there.
One thing though, I don't think you should make the requirements for the prestige class require multiclassing, because it is almost always so suboptimal.
I'd make it something that a third level ranger could get into, or a first level ranger, second level rogue. That way, the character can get spell casting just like a 4th level ranger would be able to. Give him the weak spell casting tree rangers get, but reduce the spell level of some of the divination spells by a level. Let him get Arcane Sight or whatever at second level. Let him See Invisibility with a first. Also, let him count his total class level as his wizard level when casting divinations.
Quote from: Reckall;428618My 3.5E campaign right now needs an NPC specialized in digging out lore and knowledge from ancient ruins. I want to make clear upfront that I'm not looking for an Indiana Jones/Lara Croft kind of character. More like Father Merrin from "The Exorcist".
It sounds like you are talking about a Rogue/Cleric (mostly Rogue) multi-classed character. If you want to make it a prestige class, it sounds like a Rogue plus the handful of spells you mentioned.
Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-11844.html) is an arcane version I found by putting "archaeologist prestige class" into Google. Here (http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-house-rules/197648-base-class-archeologist.html) is an archaeologist base class that someone posted on ENWorld.
Try the Archivist. I think it was in Liber Mortis, and up until recently it was hosted on the WotC website as a preview. Simply put the class allows you access to every divine spell, but requires a spellbook and spell acquisition like a wizard, and it grants party wide buffs based on knowledge skills.
Speaking from the perspective of an archaeology student, I really like the Loredelver PrC from Races of Destiny.
The Akashic (http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_MCAE_Akashic) class from Monte Cook. He even lists Indiana Jones as one path for the class, and inspiration for much of the class. You have to choose the right powers, but it's definitely there. I played one (an Akashic Archeologist/Private Investigator) and it was one of my favorite characters.
Well, than you all for your suggestions. I guess I have ideas enough for a full party :)
This adventure idea came to me while reading the Grand History of the Realms. There is a good part, at the beginning, devoted to all these antedeluvian kingdoms of lizards, serpents and whatever else. This speaks of an history of the Realms even more remote than the usual "The Elves Cometh".
Add some Lovecraftian idea from the "Far Realm" (the lovecraftian dimension in D&D's cosmology), and the Sanity rules from Unearthed Arcana, and the stuff for a "Mask of the Really, REALLY Ancient God" campaign is already there.
Quote from: Reckall;428675This adventure idea came to me while reading the Grand History of the Realms. There is a good part, at the beginning, devoted to all these antedeluvian kingdoms of lizards, serpents and whatever else. This speaks of an history of the Realms even more remote than the usual "The Elves Cometh".
The final chapters of the much-reviled original campaign from the 2003 Neverwinter Nights PC game focused on this really ancient history of the Realms.
Quote from: Reckall;428618Good Arcane Knowledge. History skill is a must, as the various "Spot", "Search" and "Gather Informations" ones are. Find/disarm traps can be of obvious utility, as, "Survival" and, maybe "Use Magical Device". Architecture, Appraise and other skills useful to evaluate if the ruins are elven or built by the toad people are also useful.
Spellwise, "Detect This & That" (objects, good/evil, magic, traps...), remove curse (eh!) and similar should be included in the Archeologist list.
Again, I plan to create such a prestige class for 3.5E. Thoughts?
Can find traps + casting spells sounds rogue/wizard-ish, and you can probably make a character like this with a PrC like Arcane Trickster. The cleric/rogue multiclass PrC (Sacred Stalker) is also quite good as a PC option.
Minus the spellcasting, Dungeon Delver is class I've always thought looked fun for a ruin exploring character - they lack offensive capability advancement but thats less of a problem for an NPC.
However looking at the list of what you wanted to include... if you just want a few particular skills, you could also pick them up just with a level and a feat like Able Learner (letting a character buy all cross-class skills as class skills). You'd only really need a new PrC if there are a number of more complex abilities that need to be built in.
There's an archaeologist class in Nethack. He starts with a bullwhip.
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Quote from: RPGPundit;428712There's an archaeologist class in Nethack. He starts with a bullwhip.
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And if he's lucky, trades it in for Corwin's sword. :)
Quote from: John Morrow;428638Here (http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-house-rules/197648-base-class-archeologist.html) is an archaeologist base class that someone posted on ENWorld.
...And, of course, he/she has a whip :rolleyes:
The problem is that after Indiana Jones and Lara Croft many people mistake "tomb robbers" with "archeologists". This due the delusional belief that, in a fantasy world, grabbing a treasure while whipping orc ass is more important than gathering knowledge - this even if such knowledge can save
your ass better than any +5 sword (for example by deducting, correctly, that when the lost civilization tried to open the Portal of Babbalazuzu, the current known gods fled...)
As I wrote, my idea of an "adventuring" archeologist is more tied to Father Merrin (http://www.foodservicerumors.com/images/Father%20Merrin.bmp) in "The Exorcist" - and I think that whoever has seen the movie will agree that Merrin's life was everything but dull (http://www.girlsofscifi.net/images/space_pad/merrinfacespazuzu2f.jpg) even before encountering the demon.
I'm examining the suggestions in this thread. Many are very good, but I'm more and more inclined to weave the best of them in an home-brew Prestige Class.
Which leads to: does anyone knows where/if Wizards published guidelines about how to put together your PC?
Quote from: Reckall;428748...And, of course, he/she has a whip :rolleyes:
The problem is that after Indiana Jones and Lara Croft many people mistake "tomb robbers" with "archeologists". This due the delusional belief that, in a fantasy world, grabbing a treasure while whipping orc ass is more important than gathering knowledge - this even if such knowledge can save your ass better than any +5 sword (for example by deducting, correctly, that when the lost civilization tried to open the Portal of Babbalazuzu, the current known gods fled...)
As I wrote, my idea of an "adventuring" archeologist is more tied to Father Merrin (http://www.foodservicerumors.com/images/Father%20Merrin.bmp) in "The Exorcist" - and I think that whoever has seen the movie will agree that Merrin's life was everything but dull (http://www.girlsofscifi.net/images/space_pad/merrinfacespazuzu2f.jpg) even before encountering the demon.
I'm examining the suggestions in this thread. Many are very good, but I'm more and more inclined to weave the best of them in an home-brew Prestige Class.
Which leads to: does anyone knows where/if Wizards published guidelines about how to put together your PC?
No I don't, but with so much published I think the best rout is it use level appropriate substitution based on a strong class like the rogue.
The tomb robber thing just seems to make so much sense because I can't picture someone without great athleticism and combat ability being able to go into the hidden places in a D&D setting without dying. D&D is like indiana jones, with traps and monsters and natives and shit.
Quote from: Reckall;428748Which leads to: does anyone knows where/if Wizards published guidelines about how to put together your PC?
The
Dungeon Master's Guide II has guidelines for creating Prestige Classes (p. 203).
What about the Loremaster?
Putting together a PrC - basic guidelines...
Most have 5 or 10 levels; a few have only 3 (exotic weapon master, a couple in book of exalted deeds). Almost all PrCs require a minimum level of 5th so either a BAB of +5 or better, a skill at 8 ranks (5 for Pathfinder) or 3rd level spells.
Many PrCs will also require some feats to get into: a problem you sometimes see is that a couple of feats will be included by someone who forgot those were halfway up a 'feat tree' (for example Tactical Soldier in Miniatures Handbook lists Cleave as a prerequisite, but Cleave itself also requires Power Attack, so the class is harder to get into that the designer expected). Watch feats with ability requirements as well (i.e. to be a bandit [Outlaw of the Crimson Road PrC] in 3.0 requires a 13+ Int, as thats a prerequisite for Expertise).
Most PrCs would require a couple of feats to get into i.e. to balance the other benefits the class gets. Too many feats makes all prospective aspirants too identical IMHO (no feats left over to personalize themselves) but requiring 1 or 2 uncommon feats isn't unreasonable to prevent people cherry picking levels from multiple classes to get degenerate character builds.
Some classes are better off with other prerequisites, though - if a class mostly just gives out bonus feats for advancing, crappy feats to get in is bad since characters could just buy the good feats with their feats and avoid your PrC entirely.
With PrC you want to give out stuff at every level, though that needn't be a specific ability - it might e.g. add caster levels every level and have new abilities periodically. Abilities that scale with class level are good as well, even if its only a skill check bonus or the like.
Most get some particularly interesting ability as a "capstone" ability at 10th level/max level to reward people who have taken it all the way instead of cherry-picking half a dozen PrCs.
If you have a couple of existing PrCs that are sort of what you're after, you can try making a character with multiple PrCs and working out what their progression looks like, then modify that progression to even out bonuses and drop out excess prerequisites.
I second the motion upthread for the Archivist base class, though it was in Heroes of Horror and not Liber Mortis.
1/2 BAB. Good skills. Divine spells based on Int. And the aforementioned party buffs based on knowledge.
He should also have some kind of hat.
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