Can anyone recommend a 5E hack that rebalances the core classes so Fighters in particular don't suck so bad?

Welcome aboard GameThug!

What do you feel is wrong with the Fighter in 5e?

What have you seen in ACTUAL PLAY that makes the Fighter a weaker choice compared to other core classes?

Be specific.

Quote from: GameThug;1135187Can anyone recommend a 5E hack that rebalances the core classes so Fighters in particular don't suck so bad?

I would recommend Pathfinder 2.0

Martial characters, especially Fighters, are much more powerful.

Quote from: GameThug;1135187Can anyone recommend a 5E hack that rebalances the core classes so Fighters in particular don't suck so bad?

Play DCC the fighters in that game are fantastic.

Though specifically for 5e i dont have many suggestions.

Quote from: GameThug;1135187Can anyone recommend a 5E hack that rebalances the core classes so Fighters in particular don't suck so bad?

Not sure if it's what you're looking for O5R

Quote from: Spinachcat;1135188Welcome aboard GameThug!

What do you feel is wrong with the Fighter in 5e?

What have you seen in ACTUAL PLAY that makes the Fighter a weaker choice compared to other core classes?

Be specific.

I'm obviously not the OP, but one thing I've noticed is that 5e seems to have embraced D&D's IMO already broken spell casting system--along the game's HP bloat from characters basically multiplying their HP by their level--and made high damage spells standard. Even lower level spells can do multiple dice of damage, such as Burning Hands (LV 1) inflicting 3d6 to all targets in a 15' cone, and even cantrips--which can be casted unlimited times per day--doing 1d10 points of damage (1d6 if it can affect multiple targets) as a base, which is more damage than you can do with a sword. And a cantrip's damage increases, gaining up to three additional dice based the caster's level (4d10 by level 17). Meanwhile a longsword always does 1d8 (2d8 on a crit) +STR damage.

Granted, a Fighter (and only Fighters) can get up to three bonus attacks by level 20. But that's four separate attacks you have to roll to hit for individually, and only as part of a full attack action, which doesn't always apply. Meanwhile a level 20 mage has 4d10 damage cantrips and a crapton of high damage spells, including Meteor Swarm, which does 20 freaking d6s of fire damage, plus an extra 20d6 of blunt damage (you have to roll 40d6 total, like this is freaking Shadowrun) across a 40' radius sphere up a mile away.

I have no clue how I would fix this (at least not right off the bat), but taking a hammer to the spell system would inevitably be part of the solution, cuz IMO pumping up all warriors to a wizard's already broken level would only make things worse.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1135204I'm obviously not the OP, but one thing I've noticed is that 5e seems to have embraced D&D's IMO already broken spell casting system--along the game's HP bloat from characters basically multiplying their HP by their level--and made high damage spells standard. Even lower level spells can do multiple dice of damage, such as Burning Hands (LV 1) inflicting 3d6 to all targets in a 15' cone, and even cantrips--which can be casted unlimited times per day--doing 1d10 points of damage (1d6 if it can affect multiple targets) as a base, which is more damage than you can do with a sword. And a cantrip's damage increases, gaining up to three additional dice based the caster's level (4d10 by level 17). Meanwhile a longsword always does 1d8 (2d8 on a crit) +STR damage.

Granted, a Fighter (and only Fighters) can get up to three bonus attacks by level 20. But that's four separate attacks you have to roll to hit for individually, and only as part of a full attack action, which doesn't always apply. Meanwhile a level 20 mage has 4d10 damage cantrips and a crapton of high damage spells, including Meteor Swarm, which does 20 freaking d6s of fire damage, plus an extra 20d6 of blunt damage (you have to roll 40d6 total, like this is freaking Shadowrun) across a 40' radius sphere up a mile away.

I have no clue how I would fix this (at least not right off the bat), but taking a hammer to the spell system would inevitably be part of the solution, cuz IMO pumping up all warriors to a wizard's already broken level would only make things worse.

How about a 5E Fighter with multiple attacks, receiving Advantage on their next attack that turn, if they just scored a successful hit during that same turn?

Quote from: Razor 007;1135205How about a 5E Fighter with multiple attacks, receiving Advantage on their next attack that turn, if they just scored a successful hit during that same turn?

Or atomic blaster swords.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1135203Not sure if it's what you're looking for O5R

This looks really similar to 5 torches deep. Or at least what ive seen of 5 torches deep
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/264584

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1135207Or atomic blaster swords.

Well, I thought that was a given?  I mean, I wouldn't even bother to mention that on my character sheet.  The DM should allow all Fighters a Magic Ring, with 10 Charges of Summon Atomic Blaster Sword.  Duh!!!

Quote from: Razor 007;1135205How about a 5E Fighter with multiple attacks, receiving Advantage on their next attack that turn, if they just scored a successful hit during that same turn?

That might help them get a few extra hits in, but it's still not enough to match a spell caster in power. I suspect that anything short of giving them extra dice of weapon damage (maybe +1 die at 5th, 11th and 17th warrior level--same as cantrips) won't be enough to make a significant difference. And even then casters also have multi-dice attacks they can use indefinitely (cantrips), in addition to a ton of spells for different purposes. But with extra damage dice, and multiple attacks, warriors could be able to dish out a lot of damage--maybe even too much, unless only the first successful attacks gets the extra damage. And this isn't even counting STR modifiers and bonus damage from magic weapons.

With a setup like that warriors might be able to at least touch the feet of spell casters and become a real danger in combat. And given the ridiculous amount of HP characters and monsters have and how everything else in 5e seems to revolve around doing craptons of damage, I'm not sure if it would even be that unbalanced.

I would also consider giving non-warriors extra weapon damage too, but a lower amount. Like maybe +1 die at level 10 and that's it. But that starts complicating things a bit. Alternatively, maybe everyone gets +1 die at level 11, but warriors get +1 die at warrior (any warrior class combination) levels 5 and 17, commutative with the bonus everyone gets at level 11.

But maybe I'm crazy and this would be too much, IDK. Still thinking it over.

Sounds like 5e is continuing the legacy of 3e, which made fighters a lot less unique and spellcasters much more powerful than their 2e counterparts. Here is an article(the site seems to let you view 3 articles for free per month, so hopefully y'all can still see it) about changes made between 2e and 3e that explain a lot. (I'll remember CoDzilla forever.)

So one solution would simply be to play an older edition(or retroclone thereof). If you want to keep things mostly the same, perhaps add additional casting time(and with it, chances to interrupt) to spells. Or if that's not to your liking, I'm sure someone's come up with a version of E5 or E6 for 5e by now. That always seemed like an elegant enough solution.

Thats a real interesting article. I didnt play 3 or 3.5 (or 2, just 1e and BECMI) But yeah, 5e does continue that.

5e fighters aren't Paladin good, but they are still OP, just take either Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master and you are an optimal source of damage.

OP - you should start by telling us why you believe fighters are broken. :-) Some context will help.

2) Don't hack 5e. There are some gems in there, but instead find a clone you really like and tune it up with the good parts you like. Honestly, 5e is a honey trap. If you aren't an expert optimizer you can easily make a terrible character that doesn't stack up. I've played many times making a character from the book without any tweaking (just making something I thought would be fun) and they always suck compared to the optimizers. Apparently everyone in 5e should have 2 levels of Rogue? I originally thought it was cool, but having GMed it and played it, I've changed my mind. 5e is shit. Play something else. (steal the death mechanic, or advantage/disadvantage, or the skill list? everything else is bleh)

3) If you really want parity, you need to jump out of class/level land and jump INTO generic RPG land. Things have points, characters made with the same number of points are closer to one another (not perfect parity. Which is impossible). So, GURPS, HERO, Savage Worlds (less points, more choosing), etc. can make for MUCH more interesting martial characters who have abilities on par with their magic using cohorts (aka magic can be intentionally nerfed to taste...).

4) If you LOVE levels/classes, then S's suggestion for Pathfinder 2e is spot on. Been doing a read through of it and thus far it reads like a high-magic power-good time. All the classes are fun, lots of options, and I don't see any downfalls to choosing a martial character. If you really WANT modern D&D with options, bells, and whistles - PF2e should scratch that itch.

5) But don't just dive into the "new hotness". Adventure Conqueror King (ACKS) is cool, Fantastic Heroes & Witchery is delightful, many people RAVE about Dungeon Crawl Classics (DCC), and Sine Nomine's offerings like Godbound are deliciously simple yet robust.

There are way to many options to stay in a bad relationship with D&D5e. Dump that shit and explore your options!