...sort of prompted by the "Aces & Eights" thread, but not really....

Alright, I've often seen it said on gaming forums that this or that Alternate History or alternate timeline (What GURPS calls Infinite Worlds)  isn't that good or believable.

Okay, fine.

Which Alternate History timelines for RPGs do you think are GOOD or believable?

 Which ones are just really fun?

Which AH timelines are just extreme over the top silly - but you still might want to play an RPG with it?


- Ed C.

Most of the people who complain are history buffs or professional historians.

It's a personal thing for me...I find, generally, that Alternate History in RPGs feels like laziness on the author's part.  I know this is generally NOT the case, but it feels like it to me.

I think real history is interesting enough for gaming, but then again I have a Master's Degree in it.  It makes me able to see the cracks in an Alternate History theory, and becomes annoying.

Yes Joe....but of the ones you've seen for RPG backgraounds and such - which ones bother you the least?

 Or maybe I should put it this way :

Which Alternate Histories are the most 'plausible' that are meant for RPG settings?


- Ed C.

Quote from: joewolz;302703Most of the people who complain are history buffs or professional historians.

It's a personal thing for me...I find, generally, that Alternate History in RPGs feels like laziness on the author's part.  I know this is generally NOT the case, but it feels like it to me.

I think real history is interesting enough for gaming, but then again I have a Master's Degree in it.  It makes me able to see the cracks in an Alternate History theory, and becomes annoying.

Just out of curiosity what do you think of the alternate history books by Harry Turtledove?

If we're talking "alternate history", then I'd say my go-to would be Twilight:2000.  It assumes that the Soviets see the end coming, just like the Rand Corporation did, except they decide to do something about it (launching WWIII, or at least starting to poke China with a sharp stick which eventually leads to WWIII).

Although to be honest it's the only "alt history" RPG I've played.  Unless you count Cyberpunk, which now technically qualifies as history (the 1st edition of it, anyway).

Quote from: Koltar;302705Which Alternate Histories are the most 'plausible' that are meant for RPG settings?

I have yet to find one I find plausible.

Quote from: Ronin;302706Just out of curiosity what do you think of the alternate history books by Harry Turtledove?

I'm a big fan of Harry Turtledove, and have read almost all of his Alternate History books.  

But they're a trick:  Each alt-hist book he writes is an anachronism.  Take one of my favorites, In the Presence of Mine Enemies, as an example.  It is a direct copy of the fall of the Soviet Union, but in a future Nazi Germany.  It's almost event for event a history of the collapse of the government in Moscow, but through a different lens.

A big exception to this is his In the Balance series, which does steal liberally from history while adding some unique and plausible features with the Race and its interaction with humanity.  

Turtledove is a fantastic writer, and his storylines are awesome...probably because most of them are cribbed from actual history.

Game designers are at a disadvantage with alternate histories as they are usually developed fromthe perspective of a limited audience. If I was to seriously consider a alt-history background I would look at the forums at http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/ maybe submit it to be criticized.

Subjects like the South winning the civil war and Germany launching Sea Lion have been discussed so many times that you really learn what the possibilities were.

The most interesting timelines written are those that start from an otherwise uninteresting Point of Departure. For example Jared's Decades of Darkness has a PoD of the death of Thomas Jefferson in late 1808. This change leads to an extended Embargo Act, leading a more widespread succession movement in New England, A war of 1811 where New England along with New York and New Jersey leaves the Union, the resulting Union is dominated by slave holding states, which leads a slaving holding, debt peons dark United States in the 20th century that is powerful nation dominating the Americas yet is a pariah among the rest of the world. http://decadesofdarkness.alternatehistory.com/

The way these timelines work is that you start out with a short story or a series of vignettes, people comment on them, you modify any implausibilities, and then post the next step. If you take this seriously the result is a plausible timeline that been vetted by many eyeballs. Avoiding the pitfalls that plague backgrounds of this kind.

For example you would do something like

What if while in his early teens Mohammad converted to Christianity and stayed in Syria living as a Monk. Then you post a series of vignettes about Mohammad as a Christian monk. Perhaps your initial plot is that Mohammad instills a missionary zeal/conversion by the sword attitude in Byzantine Christianity as result of his experience in the wars with the Sassanids. (they held Syria and the Holy Lands in the 620s) This in combination with Heraclius as Emperor led to the Eastern Roman Empire recovering before the Sassanids.With eventually leds to a Roman Empire that survives into the present era dominating Europe. Along the way Steam came into early widespread use because of the increased traffic resulting from a stable eastern empire. This ignited an early industrial revolution somewhere in the 16th to 17th century. Some tech is more advanced (metallurgy, steam, coal, etc) while other are still at OTL (Our Time Line) levels.

You could use this as a background for some weird steampunk RPG. By working it out first with outside input you can create a plausible chain of events to get to your "present." The plausibility helps to allow your audience to accept the background as part of the setting.

The techniques that the alternate history folks use help with standard backgrounds for fantasy and science fiction games as well. You start with a initial set of premises and work your way to your setting's present making sure each step is plausible. This helps with game balance with extranormal rules systems like magic and psionics. You can spot elements that have undesired effect and fix it before releasing the system. For example having a Create Metal spell has a radical effect on fantasy societies and probably would make medieval/feudal societies implausible. You could eliminate the spell or fix by saying the metal being created doesn't last for then the spellcaster's level in days.

Great stuff Estar ! You made my day.

I think Delta Green's alt. history is great...works with the setting/genre perfectly.

Brave New World is an alternate history super hero RPG.  


The divergent point in this alternate history was November 22, 1963. In Brave New World, like in the real world, John F. Kennedy was the subject of an assassination attempt. However, in Brave New World, apparently Kennedy survived the assassination due to the intervention of Superior (uber superhero). Instead of sniper fire, in this world, Lee Harvey Oswald was one of several super-villains in power armor who flew in and destroyed the President's limousine with energy weapons. Superior managed to save the life of the President (interesting complications in this), but in the aftermath the government decided it must take a much harsher line on dealing with super-humans. The Delta Registration Act was quickly passed by Congress, making it a federal offense worthy of life imprisonment to not register superpowers with the government within seven days of manifesting them. Furthermore, all super-humans essentially had no civil rights, and could be used by the government in any way it felt appropriate. The government created Delta Prime as a super-powered law enforcement agency to control unregistered Deltas. Witch hunts begin to flush out super-humans who had not registered.  

Kennedy is still allive in the year 2000. Martial Law is still going on.  Even the Reg (Regular people) are quietly grumbling about this.

It is not your normal super hero world.  There are people with powers trying to do good (as supers), rebelling against the laws, actively fighting, or being military agents hunting everyone down.  It really works as a setting. You get some of the supers trope, with a solid dose of realism (especially since Deltas are minorly powered, as all the Alphas were removed from the world due to an incident having to do with Chicago a few decades back), and the feel that you are in an alt world, rather than just a strange fantasy one.

The timeline is perfect in both a comics world and an alt history sense.  

The game is a lot of fun to play.