Quote from: IceBlinkLuck;462180Another book to consider is The Arabian Nights: A Companion by Robert Irwin. I just finished reading this a few weeks ago and its a very interesting look at the Tales and what they tell us about the early Arabian cultures which spawned them. Using the Tales as a starting point he talks about the criminal underclass, views about magic and the supernatural world, an average citizens place in the society and, of course, the role of the professional storyteller. There's a ton of stuff you can lift from that one resource.

I will have to check this out; this sounds like good reading. Is Irwin is the translator of the penguin volumes or am I misremembering?

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;462186The AD&D setting is good if you don't want to research and build your own campaign. Like others have said it isn't historical. But it works great for Arabian Nights style campaigns.

I've run both al-Qadim and a more authentic campaign based on real history. In my experience it was much easier for the players to grasp the al-Qadim setting than it was to grasp the historical one (even though I layered it with myth and supernatural). I think people felt more obligated to understand the history and culture of the authentic setting. al-Qadim is simplified and tweaked enough that its pretty digestible (in terms of grasping the key cultural differences and key setting concepts quickly).

For what its worthy my authentic setting completely nosedived. Between the names, the detailed cultural and historical context, etc, the players just had a hard time keeping pace with things (though most of this was definitely my own fault in how I presented things).

This makes sense to me. I think that some players can both be wary of the primal dread of there being a "quiz at the end," and feel constrained by the sense that they will be more constrained by the "force of history" in a real-world historical setting. Whether it's motivated by respect or resentment or performance anxiety will vary from player to player but I do think a lot of players don't engage as full-bloodedly with the historical setting.

Why hasn't GURPS Arabian Nights been mentioned? An excellent RPG resource on things both mythical and historical. I came across it at a FLGS and picked it up inspite of not ever planning on running GURPS anymore.

Quote from: Cole;462194This makes sense to me. I think that some players can both be wary of the primal dread of there being a "quiz at the end," and feel constrained by the sense that they will be more constrained by the "force of history" in a real-world historical setting. Whether it's motivated by respect or resentment or performance anxiety will vary from player to player but I do think a lot of players don't engage as full-bloodedly with the historical setting.

I definitely got a lot of this after the game. More than one player said "I just don't know enough about the time period and location to play my character".

Pre-Islamic Arabia is not well documented from what I've seen. The tribes tended to serve whoever was paying them the best and there was certainly no unity like what Islam provided them. Osprey books on Roman/Byzantine and Persian/Parthian/Sassanid Persian armies typically have a bit on their respective Arab allies. Usually they supplemented their own arms, armor and clothing with that of their sponsors when they could but still retained their own look and fighting styles.

However they were not seen as very reliable or good troops and tended to raid whoever they could when the opportunity presented itself. Something of a desert version of the later Cossacks. OTOH armored camels are so fun!

FWIW David Nicolle tends to write the Islamic and related Osprey books, including more than the just the "uniform" books (Men At Arms, Elite, Warrior etc.) series, like the histories and the various hardcover books intended for libraries and normal bookstores.

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/authors/david_nicolle
The Warhammer Ancients book on chariot warfare covers the *very* early stuff nicely and really like their Late Roman and Byzantine books but dunno how much that overlaps with what you want.

WRG (Wargames Research Group) has the classic Armies of series books with tons of b&w illos still ripped off by miniature makers to this day and concisely written for wargamers even if a bit outdated research wise and somewhat hard to find. Armies of the Ancient Near East might be a too early, the Greek/Alexander and Roman ones cover the East some and the Crusades/Eastern Europe etc. ones definitely cover the Islamic armies. Pretty much any gameable army in the time period covered in those books is represented there somewhere.


Yeah GURPS Arabian Nights is arguably more about the historical underpinnings of the Arabian Nights than the setting depicted in the stories and should be well worth a look see for the OP's purposes. The author did a great job but evidently a significant number of players just wanted to play stock cliched Arabian Nights, which is fine, but not what the book is mostly about.

By Al-Qadim setting book do you mean the core softcover rules (Arabian Adventures subheading) or the Land of Fate setting boxed set? The first is more just AD&D2E rules with a thumbnail of the culture and setting while the boxed set has much more setting detail than rules. To game with you really need both, if you were using AD&D2E at least.

Tales of the Caliphate is also good yes, and I found my copy at Half-Price Books for $10, 1/5 the cover price. They had stacks and not just at one location. If there's none local to you try their website or sites like abebooks or Powell's. It is historically based and covers the whole history of Islam and surrounding cultures up to the time of the ruler in 1001 Nights.

It was the soft back I found. I haven't seen the box set yet.

To all:

I just found this golden nugget and started reading: http://oi.uchicago.edu/pdf/ois5.pdf

Question for the brain trust:

How were ancient Arab tribes ruled? How was political leadership acquired?

Our al-Qadim campaign was a huge hit because:

1. No one took it seriously.

2. The DM used the books mostly for the classes and monsters, and substituted the "Loregiver" faith for real, honest-to-God Islam. The conflict between Islam and pre-Islamic elements (monsters, magic etc.) was a lot like the whole "Church vs. fey folk" you get in Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions and made for an interesting, atmospheric game.

3. Did I mention that no one took it seriously? DM included. He cribbed from the Al-Qadim books and from actual Arabic history and myth as it suited him; the more outré, the better. Great stuff.

I have an autographed copy of GURPS Arabian Nights, phear my nerd (hipster?) cred.

As for the tale-within-a-tale of Caliphate Nights, the player whose character is launching the story spends a point of Conviction and assigns the roles in the story to other characters, using the diceless/simplified characters rules. As the story continues, the GM is keeping track of positive and negative story elements for the audience (does it cater to their interests, etc.)  At the end, you total up the elements and that's the bonus/penalty to whatever you're trying to do with the audience.  Time distortions are common in the Arabian Nights (4 years in the salt mines pass in two sentences) so the length of time of the framed story is not too relevant.

After skimming that pdf, looks useful ayup. An example Arabic tribe mentioned there, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghassanids

And a related Osprey book, Yarmuk AD 636 The Muslim conquest of Syria
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/Yarmuk-AD-636-_9781855324145
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yarmouk

I've found this very useful in bridging the gap between late Roman Empire (Early Byzantine) and early Islamic conquests. It's also a good and significant battle. Opening champion duels FTW!

Arabian Nights translations-

Tales of the Caliphate Nights recommends Husain Haddaway's Arabian Nights and Arabian Nights 2 (the latter covers the more familiar stories so is more recommended for starters). Not sure if this is the Penguin book upthread, I got these via library loan one time briefly and they were hardcover and IIRC based on slightly different texts or interpretations than the older norms in English.

It also gives mention of Robert Irwin's The Arabian Nights: A Companion (mentioned up thread), A History of the Arab Peoples by Albert Hourani and Daily Life in the Medieval Islamic World by James E. Lindsay among others. I've read A History of the Arab Peoples and found it to be a good single volume readable history and cultural overview covering from pre-Islam to much later than 1001 Nights. So read what you need from it.

IIRC the Wikipedia article on 1001 Nights was useful in tracking down other good in print versions.

Films-

Also GO SEE Ray Harryhausen's Sinbad films. NOW!
The 7th Voyage of Sinbad
The Golden Voyage of Sinbad
Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger
- stuff like this is likely what players will be expecting more than anything else, mind it's actually rather good fun and highlights the explorative nature of the culture

Caliphate Nights also recommends The Message on the beginnings of Islam and Hallmark's 1999 Arabian Nights.

Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut is pretty good too, even if it's 2nd-3rd Crusade era stuffs. The banners, the banners...


Finally I must give props to Clash's upcoming Outremer game, even if it's set in alt.1560 where the Crusader states didn't fall. (waves to the flying mouse!)

Quote from: Casey777;462242Also GO SEE Ray Harryhausen's Sinbad films. NOW!

I was watching TCM the other day and they showed a pre-Harryhausen Sinbad film that I hadn't seen since I was a wee kiddie, 'Captain Sindbad'.
It was missing the animated monsters but otherwise seemed much the same as the Harryhausen ones... including a somewhat lackluster Sindbad (the guy who played the papa Robinson on Lost In Space).
The bit that made a big impression on me as a kid is where Sindbad fights a giant disembodied hand... while trying to get at the heart of an evil sorcerer that is being kept in a jar.

As long as we are talking about film inspiration, there's also "Thief of Baghdad." Yes, its 'Hollywood Arabian Nights,' but if you run a game that uses some of these elements you are bound to have fun.

http://www.angelfire.com/az/rescon/MEHBKNMD.html

I found this website which is pretty cool for my stupid ass. Here is a quote:

QuoteSOCIAL EXCHANGES

 

1. There is much mutual ignorance, some ill feeling and prejudice and some social interaction between nomads and the settled population. Usually an uneasy peace exists in which nomads and villagers exchange their various commodities.

2. The potential hostility is due to competition between the two groups over marginal lands that lie between the cultivated zone and the pastoral grazing areas. Nomads may also cause damage to village crops if they let their animals stray onto farmer's fields before they are harvested. With growing population pressures conflicts are on the increase. Villagers expand their cultivation into nomad lands, commercial stock breeders send their herds into nomad grazing grounds.

3. Conflict and antipathy do not prevent interaction. Intermarriage takes place - Tapper in "Pasture and Politics" claims nomads give 20% of their daughters to villagers and receive 10% of their wives from villagers. Alliances of convenience are also formed for economic reasons.

4. There is a constant movement of nomads settling down and of villagers becoming nomads.

5. Nomads supply villagers with news and information on the outside world which they glean from their extensive migration and widespread kin networks.

6. Some nomads have relatives in the villages with whom they regularly cooperate in joint ventures. Some wealthier nomads own shares in village lands acting as absentee landlords.

Quote from: Simlasa;462299I was watching TCM the other day and they showed a pre-Harryhausen Sinbad film that I hadn't seen since I was a wee kiddie, 'Captain Sindbad'.
It was missing the animated monsters but otherwise seemed much the same as the Harryhausen ones... including a somewhat lackluster Sindbad (the guy who played the papa Robinson on Lost In Space).
The bit that made a big impression on me as a kid is where Sindbad fights a giant disembodied hand... while trying to get at the heart of an evil sorcerer that is being kept in a jar.

Sinbad movies have always been a bigger influence on my D&D games than any of the usual suspects (Howard, Lieber, Tolkien, Vance, et al). The Thief of Bagdad, too. They're fun, silly, colorful and are more entertaining than the books by the above-mentioned writers, and MUCH more entertaining than any of the movies based on them.

Caroline Munro in The Golden Voyage of Sinbad by herself gives two very good reasons to watch the movie:

Bit of a redo - this is what I have written up so far for the background on my game. I haven't written much about the southern kingdoms: this is all about desert nomads.

I'm still trying to find more about Arabian folklore so I can come up with stuff about magic and wizards.

Any kind of critique would be nice.


   The land known as Hezzesheol is one of the harshest places in the world. Its deserts, sparsely dotted with water, are ruled by a nomadic people. The "Shoels" as they are known, live in small groups of usually 3 or 4 families which travel the land in search of scarce resources for their herds of goats, sheep, dromedaries and camels.

   There are twelve major tribes of Hezzesheol: Kilab, Murad, Banu, Judham, Numayr, Mahrah, Ghatafan, Sulaym, Hanifah, Tamin, Hawazan and Bahila. Each tribe is ruled by a sheikh and lead by a council of elders. The council of elders appoints the sheikh and informally determines its own membership accepting them if their age and prestige are sufficient.

It is a rare day when all of the elders of the land are able to meet. In fact, it happens just once a year. Every year on the Autumnal Equinox, thousands of men gather at the Silver Plateau for a moot. During this moot, tribal business is handled, religious rituals are carried out, and a feast is held.

   The need to remain in small groups due to the lack of concentrated resources prevents the tribes from assembling in larger numbers except where permanent settlements have been established at scattered oases. These settlements were almost always established through force of arms and are always under threat by nomads of other tribes that want the resources for themselves.


   The nomads of Hezzesheol are ancestor and spirit worshippers. They believe that the sun god has left men to fend for themselves, but through righteousness can find their way into the fields of plenty. Those who follow their path practice religious ritual, prayer to the spirits and meditation to prepare their souls to find the light that leads to the fields. Should they succeed, they will become spirits capable to interceding on the behalf of the tribe and family they had in life. Through this arrangement, the dead can provide spells to the living.

   The members of each tribe have a powerful oral tradition. Most members can recite the names, deeds, and stories of a thousand righteous men that came before, and the stories of virtually every man they directly descended from. The assumption that the elders of the tribe have a greater mastery over the oral tradition, and are themselves soon to become honored spirits, gives them authority over the tribe.

   The moot at the Silver Plateau is the greatest festival of the year, lasting for two weeks. The celebration gives the tribes time to finish any local business before traveling north for the season. Large decisions, such as the decision to go to war, are discussed at the moot. Sheikhs, while doubling as political and religious leaders, commune with the spirit world to seek answers and assistance for their people. Silver Plateau has an enormous permanent stone floor on its center. The center dais has a collection of idols from every tribe, each one beautifully painted. It is this dais that serves as the focus for all of the ceremonies.


   Along the southern border of the desert there is a great deal of pasture land which is technically under the influence of the three kingdoms. Many of the people who live there consider themselves nomads. At any given point, whole families will settle down to farm or get up and leave into the desert. This situation makes the Sheol very difficult to tax, threaten or control.

        Animal husbandry is the principal means of subsistence for the Sheol. Dromedaries, camels, sheep and goats provide wool, meat, blood, work and wealth for the people of the desert. That said, the Sheol are not completely self sufficient. They trade substantially with settled communities for any number of goods they can't provide themselves. The nomads and the settled communities are completely bound together both through culture and economics.

   The Sheol consider themselves more righteous than settled people. They believe that the desert lets them see clearly into the spirit world and that their unchanging way of life lets them have a direct connection to their ancestors. They believe that they are healthier and cleaner that settled peoples (which is true). They also believe that they are braver in battle and have a more generous and egalitarian society (which may also be true).

   Their culture is very concerned with honor and shame. Like the Zathum, the nomads of Hezzesheol treat so called, "lie-followers," with distain. Anyone the acts against the community, tells a lie or fails to uphold tradition can be ostracized, which has dire consequences under the desert sun. Both crime and sin are rare, for their lives are usually good but the ability to punish a criminal with anything other than exile or death is limited.

   All justice is handled by the tribal system. No one has an intrinsic right to life or possessions on their own. It is only though their tribal association that they can expect to receive justice or fair treatment by the men of their own land. The famous saying goes, "me against my brother; me and my brother against my cousin; me, my brother and my cousin against the stranger." In this harsh climate where there is little to go around, it is important to understand the fact that everyone has to make sure that they survive themselves, and then their family and then their tribe. In harsh times, this attitude can lead to very natural and bloody conflicts over the oases.

   Like so many others, the Nomads of Hezzesheol have a warrior culture. There isn't a professional military but when the elders call for battle, their ranks fill with the common people of the Sheol, all of which are capable warriors. It can take a season for the word for an army to assemble, often requiring the elders to wait for a spring or fall moot to send out the call to arms.

   The nomadic tribes often provide support for the four kingdoms as mercenaries. In fact, their numbers and prowess are so great that they have the capacity to make or break kingdoms. The people that have ruled the three southern kingdoms for so long were originally a nomadic tribe. It is only their connection to the elders that has allowed them to stay in power for so long.

   While there may be some differences in equipment due to the wealth of the individual, the Sheol army is usually composed of a single type of soldier – the mounted warrior.
[/B]
For Mount – See Herd Animal – Camel on pg 154 of Bestiary 2

STR 12
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10

HP 12 /
AC 17 Base 10, Armored Coat +4, Dex +2, Light Wooden Shield +1 (May Substitute Scale +5 or Chain Shirt +4 for Armored Coat)

BAB +1
CMB +4
CMD 14

Melee Attack (w/o mounted or power attacking modifiers): Straight Long Sword +3 Strike, Damage 1d8+1, Crit 19+
Ranged Attack: Short Bow +3 Strike, 1d6+1 Damage

Feats and Abilities

Mounted Combat
Mounted Archery
Power Attack
Weapon Focus – Long Sword

Left Blank for Now

Interesting stuff. I am curious why you included character stats for what are basically men-at-arms or maybe 1st level fighting men. The only time stats should be an issue is if they're high or low enough to make a difference. Otherwise, why bother?

The only thing lacking is a rough breakdown of numbers: how many people? how many can fight? how many are good at fighting? ringers? A breakdown of animals (esp. camels, horses, donkeys) is also important for several reasons.