The Agarthanians transport cargo across a dried out salt sea with cargo sail wagons like this:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1030[/ATTACH]

Who builds their wheels?

Quote from: Headless;966320Who builds their wheels?

The Agarthanians build them themselves, I guess. Why do you ask?

Here's some info on land sailing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_sailing

I like the idea, especially for Dark Sun, and I want to run some combats!

Here's one in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97fjOmGg2jc

Quote from: Pyromancer;966321The Agarthanians build them themselves, I guess. Why do you ask?

Cause if they neex somevone else to build them then they have have a relationship.  

As it is I'm not sure what to do with them.

I notice you put the steerable wheel in back.  Very smart, WAY more stable than the wheel in front design.

Quote from: Headless;966334Cause if they neex somevone else to build them then they have have a relationship.  

As it is I'm not sure what to do with them.

That's the way my worldbuilding works. I get hung up on ONE detail, in this case the sail wagons.

But a little bit of background:

Agarthi was once a powerful empire, its center located under the Gobi desert is. It was ruled by a race of snake people, but with a few humans in the "middle management", and lots and lots of human slaves. The reasons are unknown, but one day all the snake people retreated to the underground part of their kingdom and sealed all the entrances, leaving the humans stranded on the surface. Under pressure from surrounding human barbarians, the Agarthi retreated to their core land, mighty mountain fortresses in the Gobi desert, where they remain - mostly unknown - until today (today = 1245AD).

They trade with human settlements at the edge of the desert (gold and diamonds for food and slaves, mostly), and from time to time man one of their smaller fortresses there and use them as trade posts.

There is a centuries old struggle between the faction that wants to remain in the desert and await the return of their snake masters, and the faction that want to "abandon the old ways" and conquer a little bit of more hospitable land, with smaller factions siding with one or the other as they can gain politically from it. But the argument has become more heated, and a few "suspicious deaths" among powerful figureheads have happened.

All of this is unknown in Karakorum, there are only a few unreliable rumors of a mighty kingdom in the desert. But there isn't much else to do, so Töregene Kathun sends out a small diplomatic mission, to locate and find this kingdom, establish contact, and - depending on what they find - demand submission and tribute, raid, or spy the defenses for future campaigns.

What do they transport that is valuable enough to pay extra for fast movement?  Like a lecture I heard at MIT on maglev; "nobody's going to pay to move coal at 300 mph."

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;966346What do they transport that is valuable enough to pay extra for fast movement?  Like a lecture I heard at MIT on maglev; "nobody's going to pay to move coal at 300 mph."

They don't have transport animals, and don't want to walk a few hundred kilometers across the desert.

And dusting off the old sail wagon every once in a while is way more convenient than caring for a herd of camels all year around.

Neat! I would give this the following stats in my new Earthdawn 4th edition Ship rules:

Agarthi Sailing Wagon
 
Speed: * (as sailing ship, base speed is 1/2 wind speed on Speed Step table, can be pushed by the crew)
Maneuverability: 4 (as maneuverable as a canoe or rowboat)
Armor Rating: 9
Wound Threshold:10
Derelict Rating: 94
Destroyed Rating: 123
Captain Rating: 3
Crew Rating: 2
Cargo (duari): 12/40 (a duari is a large barrel first made by the t'skrang lizard men trading houses, it can hold 300 pounds of rice or 36 gallons of water)

The Agarthi sailing wagon is a land vehicle rigged like a sailing ship, often seen at trading posts near the Gobi desert. These unwieldy vehicles work best on terrain with few obstacles, such as at the edges and flat areas of deserts or wastes, dried lake beds, or beaches at low tide. The largest of these sailing wagons are the size of 4 large horse drawn wagons, and may carry up to 40 duari (12,00 pounds/ 6 tons) of crew, passengers, and/or cargo. These wagons must make a Hazard test each turn when exposed to winds over 15 mph or when traveling faster than Speed step 9 (21+ mph) on rough terrain to see if they capsize.

Minimum Crew: 2 (Land Sailing)         Total Crew: 7 (Officers count as double)
[ ] Derelict [< 2, adrift]   
[ ] Skeleton Crew [>= 2, ½ Speed, -4 mod]
[ ] Competent Crew [>= 4]
[X] Crack Crew [>= 6, allows certain maneuvers]
[ ] Legendary Crew [>= 8, +2 mod]

Crew Roster (5 duari)
Officers (2, 2 duari):
Agarthi Captain (Rating 3)
Agarthi First Mate (Rating 3, Navigator, Quartermaster)
Deck Crew (3, 3 duari):
Agarthi land-sailors x3 (Rating 2)

Ram +4
Batteries (3 duari):
Starboard Bow (1): Ballista x1 (Step 17, arcs 1/2/3)
Port Bow (1): Ballista x1 (Step 17, arcs 5/6/1)
Ammunition: 20 spears

Notes: Crew Rations (3 weeks): 1 duari of rations, 3 duari of water. Various ammounts of trade cargo, slaves, etc.

I don't know the Earthdawn system, but this writeup looks nice.
Regarding weapons: I'm not sure yet what weapons my Agarthanians use. A military sail wagon would surely have a ram, and some ranged weapons. Agarthean warriors might have some kind of mystic "lightning rod" leftovers from their snake masters.

Thinking about military sail wagons: How do they fight?

1) Shooting
Nothing much to say about that. Ballistas wouldn't do much damage, and it would be difficult to hit with a catapult. On the other hand, you can't build the wagons much bigger than the cargo wagon, and they have a few critical points, so it could either be drawn out battles, or a lucky hit early on that decides the victor.

2) Ramming
I'm not sure how viable this would be. Ancient warships could use this tactic because they were powered by oars which made them very fast and maneuverable. Here, everyone is powered by wind. I think it will be done, but not the primary tactic.

3) Boarding
This could work, although a hard brake at the moment the enemies want to board you can ruin their day...

4) My favorite: Small, fast wagons, shaped like wedges, trying to drive under the bigger wagons to flip them over.
This seems very dangerous for the attacking wagon, but there's not much the defending wagon can do against it. They need the ground clearance. So they would be escorted by similar small wagons that try to drive them off.

Quote from: Pyromancer;966462Thinking about military sail wagons: How do they fight?

1) Shooting
Don't attack the wagon body. Attack the sails. Chain and bar shot were used in the Napoleonic period to take down rigging, sails, and masts. Something similar fired from a ballista sounds possible. Fire arrows and hurled fire pots would also work. Or take a tip from the Byzantines and mount Greek fire siphons on the war sail wagons.

2) Ramming
I don't see this as viable. A better tactic might be scythes on the wheels like some ancient chariots. Useful against infantry and possibly to attack the wheels of another sail wagon.

3) Boarding
If the wagons are large enough swinging on ropes like in a pirate movie sounds fun and at least as feasible as most of the tactics in Mad Max Fury Road (which is to say somewhere between not very and not at all, but once you are doing sail wagons your veering into gonzo territory anyway).

Poles could be used either to fend off enemy wagons trying to board or with hooks on the end, to catch enemy wagons. And if the wagons are large enough a version of a Roman corvus (spike ended boarding plank) could be entertainingly gonzo.

Quote4) My favorite: Small, fast wagons, shaped like wedges, trying to drive under the bigger wagons to flip them over.

I don't see this as very viable, but it fits into the Mad Max sort of gonzo tactics, even success sounds dangerous for the wedges.

5) Grapnel & anchor: another tactic would use grapnels and anchors. Hook a grapnel attached to an anchor onto an enemy wagon then toss the anchor overboard. The sudden drag could easily overturn the enemy sail wagon or cause it to crash.

6) Kites: the Chinese invented war kites. These could either be large enough to lift a single attacker or unmanned and equipped with fire pots that could be dropped on enemy wagons or the kites could have razor tails or razor lines to cut away enemy rigging or sails.

Quote from: Bren;9664671) Shooting
Don't attack the wagon body. Attack the sails. Chain and bar shot were used in the Napoleonic period to take down rigging, sails, and masts. Something similar fired from a ballista sounds possible. Fire arrows and hurled fire pots would also work. Or take a tip from the Byzantines and mount Greek fire siphons on the war sail wagons.

2) Ramming
I don't see this as viable. A better tactic might be scythes on the wheels like some ancient chariots. Useful against infantry and possibly to attack the wheels of another sail wagon.

3) Boarding
If the wagons are large enough swinging on ropes like in a pirate movie sounds fun and at least as feasible as most of the tactics in Mad Max Fury Road (which is to say somewhere between not very and not at all, but once you are doing sail wagons your veering into gonzo territory anyway).

Poles could be used either to fend off enemy wagons trying to board or with hooks on the end, to catch enemy wagons. And if the wagons are large enough a version of a Roman corvus (spike ended boarding plank) could be entertainingly gonzo.

I don't see this as very viable, but it fits into the Mad Max sort of gonzo tactics, even success sounds dangerous for the wedges.

5) Grapnel & anchor: another tactic would use grapnels and anchors. Hook a grapnel attached to an anchor onto an enemy wagon then toss the anchor overboard. The sudden drag could easily overturn the enemy sail wagon or cause it to crash.

6) Kites: the Chinese invented war kites. These could either be large enough to lift a single attacker or unmanned and equipped with fire pots that could be dropped on enemy wagons or the kites could have razor tails or razor lines to cut away enemy rigging or sails.