I am going to run some games for my local group online using google hangouts (mainly so we can squeeze in another game during the week but not interfere with people's schedules). Never run an rpg session using this format. Any advice? Any software recommendations?
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;732507I am going to run some games for my local group online using google hangouts (mainly so we can squeeze in another game during the week but not interfere with people's schedules). Never run an rpg session using this format. Any advice? Any software recommendations?
I'm curious about this myself. Our regular group has been using IM for over a decade, and I'm kind of tired of our DM being enough of a luddite that he doesn't want to try any of the newer tools out there.
Obsidian Portal has been awesome for keeping notes/character sheets (for those I can convince to get theirs put up in a timely manner.)
Roll20 is solid for dice rolls, mapping, and general "virtual tabletop."
Skype is what I've used for voice chat, and find it more stable than most voice over IP (not perfect mind you, but usually solid.)
Skype gaming feels the closes to face to face to me. I've tried Google Hangouts as well and its pretty solid, but if you don't want video, use Skype.
Roll20 is:
1) free
2) integrated with Google Hangouts (the hangouts button is right there on your screen)
3) chalk full of additional tools you might want, including dice rollers, free graphics, free-form drawing tools, free music, a notes section, etc..
I would just create an account there and just start playing around for a half hour to see what you think.
I use Hangouts, without Roll20, to run my game.
Advice (for any platform):
Running online _is different_. Accept this early and it'll go smoother. Brendan will have less trouble with this since he's transitioning a home group, but typically you've got a group of people you're not as familiar with and you have to learn _them_ the same time as you're learning the online tool. The inability to read everyone's body language ("I have something to say but I'm not quite saying it yet" esp) is a hurdle. Set clear expectations the first session - explain that with the online tool and the streaming audio, there may be times that people will get cut off or step on what another is saying, and remind everyone to be cognizant of that and not to ramble. Same goes for you, GM. Adapt to the medium.
Strongly recommend asking your players to keep the "random ooc chatter and off-topic jokes" to the chat, so the video/audio remains focused on the game itself.
Looks like roll d20 is popular. I will give that a shot over google hangouts and see how it goes.
I really don't want to have to fill out pages, run code when playing the game, or have to learn a whole another layer of rules and protocols in order to play a game online. Not to mention, I hate to be constrained to the format whatever application tries to force on me when I run a game.
This is basically what stops me from using anything from Fantasy Grounds to Roll 20. Playing with those VTTs if I don't have to learn codes and stuff like that, okay. Running the games through them, no. Just no.
What I want is a simple interface that basically enables me to play the tabletop game. I don't want the stuff to simulate the tabletop itself. So I use Skype. I have Skype Premium, so I'm able to have video-conference with multiple individuals. I complement the use of Skype with a white board online, twiddla.com, and share maps, draw doodles, move counters, show pictures through that medium (though I could share a specific window or my screen with the players via Skype as well). I let the players roll, and I just assume they're not cheating. Honor system and all that.
It's working well. No complaints.
I also play via Skype at Ernie Gygax's table. He plays at home, with several players physically there, and others like me on Skype as well, with the laptop at the table or nearby. It's been working out great for us.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;732507I am going to run some games for my local group online using google hangouts (mainly so we can squeeze in another game during the week but not interfere with people's schedules). Never run an rpg session using this format. Any advice? Any software recommendations?
I've done this quite a bit
1) It's "radio" so you'll want to change your techniques from face-to-face, somewhat. I've found that making sure NPCs talk with a more distinctive 'diction' (word choice) and inflection works (I don't do voices or accents especially well). Also, things like evocative description are good.
VERY judiciously used sound effects or music can work, too -- but music quality is likely to be somewhat poor (sound is mono on those apps; bandwidth may be an issue), but it /can/ work.
2) I use Google Docs for gaming -- Draw (their PowerPoint) for combat maps and Spreadsheets for keeping track of initiative, damage, etc.
This can work /really/ well -- I make a battle map with some kind grid (hex or square) and then moveable features such as characters, NPCs, furniture, etc. are icons -- either pictures or vector.
(http://i.imgur.com/poHR3K6.png)
Here's the "Throne Room" from my post-apocalypse game -- 4 PC smiley faces, a Great Hall full of opponents, and three "Bosses" at the back.
Because everyone can edit the map, each player can move their icon and see things play out in realtime.
I use spreadsheets for rolling dice (using the RANDBETWEEN function), keeping track of initiative, etc.
We can share pictures by pasting URLs into skype chat, etc.
This setup works so well that we use laptop PCs even when we're face to face.
Cheers,
-E.
yes.
Been doing this a while. Only answering because it is you, my friend, in that I am far too tired right now. But I ran my Steel Isle game online for 120 sessions, and the Collegium Arcana game (with which you are familiar) for some 40 sessions so far (12 full group, the rest intermezzo, all online).
I use roll20 right now. Very good management, I went to them with some of my dive rolling needs (dividing dice), and they immediately got back to me with solutions.
I will tell you that two of the most powerful differences with online are the ability to whisper and the need to prep visuals/text blocks.
Whispers give you the ability not just to plant info, but to have the players be your avatar in passing information, thus giving it more in-game cred. I still remember, way back, when I first started doing this. I remember IMing one Pc with a hear noise skill that he heard faint laughter way ahead, and it creeped the heck out of the PCs when one of their own said, "uh, guys, I hear...someone laughing, really faintly..". It is still incredibly powerful in the CA game where players have different magical sensitivities.
The other makes more sense, if you have a few things prepared, it makes everything easier when the PCs run into major reveals, etc.
Thanks.
Will report back on this once we get some online sessions under our belt.
Sounds like some good advice here; but I've got nothing. I've never played like this, nor ever had the slightest inkling of desire to do so.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;732507I am going to run some games for my local group online using google hangouts (mainly so we can squeeze in another game during the week but not interfere with people's schedules). Never run an rpg session using this format. Any advice? Any software recommendations?
Uses Google Hangout for voice and roll20 for presenting images and rolling dice.
Quote from: Benoist;732594What I want is a simple interface that basically enables me to play the tabletop game. I don't want the stuff to simulate the tabletop itself. So I use Skype. I have Skype Premium, so I'm able to have video-conference with multiple individuals. I complement the use of Skype with a white board online, twiddla.com, and share maps, draw doodles, move counters, show pictures through that medium (though I could share a specific window or my screen with the players via Skype as well). I let the players roll, and I just assume they're not cheating. Honor system and all that.
Roll20 is about the simpliest solution I seen. With Google Hangouts or Skype for voice/video.
Quote from: estar;733006Roll20 is about the simpliest solution I seen. With Google Hangouts or Skype for voice/video.
Roll 20 is already too much for me.
Playing a roll 20 game? Sure. Run a game using roll 20? Nah. I don't need that.
I'm the same. There is not "The medium is the message". I want to do stuff via the medium, not get mixed up with bells, whistles and a "rich content experience*".
It's even got to the point now where a video call and a few PDFs are far more convenient that travelling to a game.
*Anyone using a phrase like this to promote their product will be flayed at dawn in the public square.
I've been playing like this for almost a decade now, pretty much since I moved to Sweden and found I missed gaming dreadfully. Started with audio-only Skype calls to my home group, but moved to Hangouts and other gaming circles when Google offered free video conferencing.
As a GM I never use any of the table-top emulation software, and indeed hate using it as a player since it drags the pace of the game down to a crawl, at least with the PF game I occasionally play in.
Otherwise if we need to visually see a battle, say for instance if playing sprawling battles-prone Savage Worlds, then the GM just angles his camera down to his white-board/table and uses miniatures. The RQ games I run/play are always theatre of the mind with the occasional screen share if there's an image of a scene or monster which players should see.
Neither do any we use any dice rollers or the like. Its all trust, imagination and fast flowing verbal exchange. The video is just there so we can see each other's faces when cracking jokes or witnessing someone fluff an important roll.
Quote from: Benoist;733008Roll 20 is already too much for me.
What do you find complicated about Roll20's whiteboard. I mean I can understand messing around with tokens and such. But I genuinely curious because I found general purpose whiteboard software to be too fussy for tabletop. Namely it great for one image people messing around with that image but trying to switch between things during play is where the headaches come in. At least for me.
Quote from: estar;733045What do you find complicated about Roll20's whiteboard. I mean I can understand messing around with tokens and such. But I genuinely curious because I found general purpose whiteboard software to be too fussy for tabletop. Namely it great for one image people messing around with that image but trying to switch between things during play is where the headaches come in. At least for me.
I think i know what Benoist is saying now that i have had a chance to fiddle with things. Roll 20 looks like a solid platform, but i can see how i might get caugt up in loading files, or images, working the knobs behind the scenes, and that might muddle with my GMing because i am easily distracted.
Right now what I have decided to do is learn the platform, but keep things minimal until it feels like we need more. So we will start with just the video chat, and play as we normally would, using the honor system for dice rolls etc (dice rollers to me just never feel quite right). I tend to play more sans miniatures anyways, so the grid will probably only be required if we have a big battle. I think the roll 20 platform will be like pulling out the battle mat for my group. We dont use it all the time, but occassionally we find it necessary and break it out.
I've played this way for several years.
Do a microphone check with each person separately before game night. If you don't, you'll eat up half an hour trying to figure out whose hard drive is buzzing, or whose shitty laptop microphone is picking up the sound of their nearby refrigerator. With only stereo sound, the brain filter out stray background noises nearly so easily.
I require all players to have a decent quality headset (no integrated mikes).
My personal preference is to play audio only; I don't see much value in seeing pasty, slack-jawed faces staring slightly off center (since the camera isn't in the middle of the screen).
IMO, the maximum group size is smaller - again, with only stereo sound, you can't have parallel conversations. Steve can't whisper to Amy, or get help figuring out what page his feats are on. The whole conversation goes into serial mode (my turn to talk, your turn, etc.)
As GM, I find it's helpful to be more explicit whenever there's a delay. "Are you looking that up in the book?" "Are you ready to act now?" Sometimes the turn-taking people are silent, each waiting for the other.
I use a Google Docs spreadsheet for the character sheets, one tab for each character. That lets me consolidate everyone's key info on a GM's tab, and it's easy to change the sheet format, or add a new cell. (Changing the structure of five character sheets at once is still annoying.)
I started off with a white board (twiddla), but eventually ditched that in favor of audio-only combat. I'd bring it back if I were playing, say, a WWII game with 4+ players, or something griddy like 3.5e. (Well, I might not try to play anything griddy online.)
Dunno if this helpful or not, but I'd alter your timeline when playing online. You can get a lot more done and get through more of a campaign in person. I'm not sure what it is about an online campaign, but it takes a long time to move through it. Part of it is adjusting to the medium and technology, but there's something else there that I can't really explain.
Games just move slower online for whatever reason.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;733052I think i know what Benoist is saying now that i have had a chance to fiddle with things. Roll 20 looks like a solid platform, but i can see how i might get caugt up in loading files, or images, working the knobs behind the scenes, and that might muddle with my GMing because i am easily distracted.
If it helps I played around with it and tried to use it just for displaying images.
Things that are not obvious
1) You can drag and drop images onto a page with having to use the uploader.
2) Before you do this turn off the grid.
If you have the monitor space you just stay on the one page drag/drop and delete images as needed. Just make it as big as your largest potential image.
Ignore the other functionality.
Quote from: Kaz;733059Dunno if this helpful or not, but I'd alter your timeline when playing online. You can get a lot more done and get through more of a campaign in person. I'm not sure what it is about an online campaign, but it takes a long time to move through it. Part of it is adjusting to the medium and technology, but there's something else there that I can't really explain.
Games just move slower online for whatever reason.
This is fascinating, as I've had the opposite experience! For us, because side-tracking would side-track the entire audio stream, we managed to stay fairly on topic for most of the session.
Were you using a VTT?
A separate headset for audio is a must IMHO. It has the effect of focusing the player (me!) on what I should be doing and not on drifting off while people talk.
And the point about campaign speed/speed of play: Is this impacted by stages of group dynamics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckman's_stages_of_group_development)? Do you play faster if you know the people/are friends?
I have had a lot of success translating modules into a VTT for grid based play. Both in Maptool and Roll20. Personally I would recommend the latter on the basis of avoiding Java and version problems alone. I also see they added some tablet support recently which might make it comfortable to play on the couch rather than at the computer desk, etc.
By and large though, I would warn about burnout. Using all those fancy features takes time and effort. As much as you want to sink into it. Try and find a balance.
Another bit of generic advice - no shows were more of a problem online than face to face. Almost twice as likely by my guestimate.
Ran our first session online tonight. It was a bit tricky at first because one of our player's had some difficulty getting the mic to work but once he switched to google chrome that resolved. Just did the video chat on google +. I like it but there are some notable differences from face-to-face. Just as a GM it feels different and takes getting used to by the end of the session I felt comfortable. The chat does not handle multiple people speaking at the same time well, so that made communication hard at points. Still we did get in a block of gaming and will be having another session next Wednesday.
Man, the pre-game sound check is totally mandatory! Glad you got it sorted out.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;733742Ran our first session online tonight. It was a bit tricky at first because one of our player's had some difficulty getting the mic to work but once he switched to google chrome that resolved. Just did the video chat on google +. I like it but there are some notable differences from face-to-face. Just as a GM it feels different and takes getting used to by the end of the session I felt comfortable. The chat does not handle multiple people speaking at the same time well, so that made communication hard at points. Still we did get in a block of gaming and will be having another session next Wednesday.
Yes. People should be more disciplined and not try to talk over one another too often, or talk to one another while the DM's talking. That gets some getting used to but if you're talking with responsible (read: non-douche) individuals, they'll get used to it pretty fast.
The other thing I find is that naturally exuberant people, need to learn to tolerate the few beats of uncomfortable silence it takes for the more reticent to step up.
In a face to face game, there are nonverbal cues to let someone know they're going to be asked a question, but those are absent online, so all that needs to be replaced with verbal equivalents.
I agree with everything Fuseboy has said in this thread.
I have done a lot of the online stuff over the last few years and my experience has largely identical to his.
I also agree with Ben in the sense that the less software the better.
We have used Skype, Infrno and hangouts; I think I prefer skype, voice only, with theatre of the mind combat and email for images. Sure there are flashier more integrated systems- but everyone knows how to use email. I want to play games not do software training.
Infrno which we used for about six months was just a fucking buggy mess. Hangouts can really fuck with a slightly older computer. We had two separate systems that would just lock up after an hour or two. Also, lets be honest, G+ membership is a high price to pay for access to video chat.
Another important point here is that if you have a player who has a hard on for a new app or VTT or whatever, feel free to tell them to forget about it. We lost entire evenings early on because one guy could not live without this or that.
Speaking of that guy, here is my biggest online disappointment- that dude who is always late to FtF games- he is going to be late for online games too, because it isn't the traffic, or his schedule, or something unexpected that came up that makes him late- he is just late, always and forever. The excuse is really just garnish.
I had two of these guys in my last online group, and had played with both ftf in the past. If anything they were worse about it while online. I scuttled the game as a result. Now, I take a good deal of satisfaction in not answering their emails.
I've used Roll20 for a couple of sessions of AD&D (I'm starting up a campaign with two old friends). So far, it's worked out reasonably well.
Uploading maps, pictures, and other handouts to Roll20 is a cinch. It's really the main reason why I use it rather than just rely on Skype. We haven't needed to use the 'combat mat' yet (one of the benefits of old school D&D over more recent versions).
The video and voice chat on Roll20 is okay for us.
So far, it's been a positive experience.
Some questions for folks more familiar with Roll20:
Is there any benefit to using it with Google hangouts? I have never used a google hangout before (and generally loathe Google+).
Is there any benefit to using Roll20 with Obsidian Portal?
And:
Quote from: estar;733060Before you do this turn off the grid.
How does one turn off the grid? I've just been uploading pictures, maps, etc. onto the grid, but unfortunately the grid can distort them (it tries to make them 'fit' the grid). I'd love to be able to turn it off!
Thanks. :)
Quote from: Akrasia;734723How does one turn off the grid? I've just been uploading pictures, maps, etc. onto the grid, but unfortunately the grid can distort them (it tries to make them 'fit' the grid). I'd love to be able to turn it off!
Thanks. :)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/2h5qxvo.png)
1- click that
2 - a cog appears here when you hover, click it
3 - do stuff over here
let me also add in that the staff are very helpful on roll20, a very important factor.
I use dividing dice a lot in my games (it changes the frequency distribution and thus the probability curve), and I asked them how to manage this. They were excellent, immediately figuring out how to do it and letting me know.
/roll ( ( 56-d10 ) / ( 2d6/2 ) ) (just an example)
I also like the way it allows you to set up dice macros.
Quote from: Akrasia;734723Is there any benefit to using it with Google hangouts? I have never used a google hangout before (and generally loathe Google+).
Not for my groups. Our experience is that it sucks up screen space for very little gain since not all of us have webcams and/or a Google account. We do make use of a third party communication system (Mumble) as there have been times where Roll20 has gone down during our game and I've had bad luck with the provided voice and cam options.
Quote from: Akrasia;734723Is there any benefit to using Roll20 with Obsidian Portal?
Absolutely! I can't speak for Obsidian Portal specifically, but I'm of the opinion that the more ways you give your players to interact with the game, the more richer and fuller the game experience is for everyone. Roll20 has some rudimentary features that start out in this direction, but nothing like Obsidian Portal has. We use a combination of Roll20 and a shared Google drive's folder for our games and it works pretty well.
Quote from: Akrasia;734723How does one turn off the grid? I've just been uploading pictures, maps, etc. onto the grid, but unfortunately the grid can distort them (it tries to make them 'fit' the grid). I'd love to be able to turn it off!
Sounds like you might also want to put background images on the map layer as opposed to the token layer. This prevents pictures from being re-sized and also puts it below the grid. To do so, click on the box shape over on the left hand side of the screen (below the arrow in the toolbar); then select the "Map & Background" layer. Now, drag objects onto the screen. This also prevents players from accidentally messing with or deleting objects they shouldn't have access to.
Thanks, BarefootGaijin and Dave!
Quote from: Dave;734812Absolutely! I can't speak for Obsidian Portal specifically, but I'm of the opinion that the more ways you give your players to interact with the game, the more richer and fuller the game experience is for everyone. Roll20 has some rudimentary features that start out in this direction, but nothing like Obsidian Portal has. We use a combination of Roll20 and a shared Google drive's folder for our games and it works pretty well.
Thanks. I was planning on just using my blog for general 'campaign resources' (PC stats, maps, log, etc.). I may check out Obsidian Portal to see if it offers anything special.
Quote from: Akrasia;735001Thanks. I was planning on just using my blog for general 'campaign resources' (PC stats, maps, log, etc.). I may check out Obsidian Portal to see if it offers anything special.
I do refer/link back to our game wiki pretty constantly, to that point.