Runequest has its famous Duck-men... the question is whether there's a major race of a known RPG world that you consider more ridiculous than the duck men?
RPGPundit
Windlings from Earthdawn.
This thread is operating from a false assumption -- Ducks are not ridiculous. Do not even start on baboons or newtlings with me.
Instead I offer: Humans, in virtually any game.
!i!
Without a doubt, it's the Giff from Spelljammer.
Honorable mention to the Kender from Krynn -- How they haven't been subjected to genocide is beyond me.
Quote from: PaladinCA;395977Without a doubt, it's the Giff from Spelljammer.
Honorable mention to the Kender from Krynn -- How they haven't been subject to genocide is beyond me.
Okay weren't the Kender just another way of saying Hobbit or halfling without actually saying ' Halfling ' ?
Thats the impression I always had.
- Ed C.
Excellent point on Kender genocide, and the surprising lack thereof.
Floopers, from Rifts. Not sure if they're major, but what race in Rifts is?
I actually give it to crap like the Kalashtar or the Azurin. For fuck's sake guys, it's a pen and paper fantasy game, you have an unlimited special effects budget. Having "races" that are exactly the same as humans except that they have different game mechanical bonuses that synergize with different character classes really offends me on multiple levels.
It's a human... but with blue eyes.
Fuck. That.
-Frank
Quote from: Koltar;395980Okay weren't the Kender just another way of saying Hobbit or halfling without actually saying ' Halfling ' ?
Thats the impression I always had.
- Ed C.
Nah, Kender was a way of getting rid of the halflings and replacing them with a bad stereotype of that obnixious foolhardy kleptomaniac gamer that you wish wasn't in your group.
As a character in a novel? Mildly amusing. As a playable character? Munchkin bait.
Back in the day, halflings were basically Hobbits. They were quiet, pastoral types who like peace and creature comforts, and occasionally produced an adventurous member under the "exception that proves the rule" thing.
Then the Kender came along, and unfortunately every version of the halflings that came after that was colored by them. They became rogueish vagabonds who lived on the outskirts of human society.
I liked them better when they were Hobbits.
Brian
I recently bought a copy of Gamma World, a game I never read or played before, and I don't know which of the races from the bestiary to nominate. The battle-furying-mace-wielding Badders, the highly intelligent gun-toting Dabbers or the Watership Down-gone-mutant Hoops? It's just silly craziness all over!
Quote from: RPGPundit;395966Runequest has its famous Duck-men... the question is whether there's a major race of a known RPG world that you consider more ridiculous than the duck men?
No, the ducks are the worst.
There are other bad ones, but nothing is quite as bad as the ducks.
Quote from: Ian Absentia;395975This thread is operating from a false assumption -- Ducks are not ridiculous. Do not even start on baboons or newtlings with me.
They are ridiculous.
(http://mythologic.info/DvB/dbul.gif)
(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/8382/ducktrouble006.png)
Quote from: Ian Absentia;395975This thread is operating from a false assumption -- Ducks are not ridiculous.
They are.
Luckily, I never saw a duck during my RQ games, and I'm thankful for that.
I recall there being a terrible British RPG where one of the character races was a giant hedgehog or something similar...
They are not ridiculous nor are they to be taken lightly. They are evil, sinister beings that must be eradicated at all costs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx5H58iuLU8
Quote from: PaladinCA;395977Honorable mention to the Kender from Krynn -- How they haven't been subjected to genocide is beyond me.
I wouldn't consider Kenders ridiculous, what they are is
annoying, like Malkavians. They're an excuse for certain players to behave obnoxiously and say with a straight face "I was just playing my character". :rolleyes:
In In Nomine you could play a member of the Kyriotates (http://innomine.wikia.com/wiki/Kyriotates), the choir (compare: "class," or "clan") of angels capable of splitting their angelic selves into multiple earthly vessels at the same time. That's ridiculous... Ridiculously awesome!
Oh, I'm doing it wrong? There isn't much that can beat the duck. This is especially true when you realize they have infested other media. The video game Suikoden III is one such victim.
I always dislike the ducks, at first. Then I decided to try a twist with them, and made them a bit inspired by the platypus and duck, rather than being just humanoid ones. Just "ducks" works when its shorthand for "things with bills that will kill you good." Razor sharo edged bills that vagulely look like teeth when closed. Poison claws on their hind legs. Yeah.
The problem is as a race "just" Ducks are silly. It's like Daffy or Donald with spears. We've seen too many cartoons of them made manlike and silly.
Now geese? Geese are MEAN.
They'll bite you and they're a 1/3 your size at best, they'll aggressively chase you and attack you. Geese-men? With the above poison claws and such? I'd run.
Seriously. I'd play. Tactically oriented, razor billed mean and poison claws?
Yep. You are dead.
Yeah Platypus are nasty, one of the oldest animals still around, their poison consists of 4 toxins, three of which don't occur anywhere else in nature. Morphine doesn't do a damn thing, the toxin acts directly on the pain receptors, only way to relieve the pain is to block the nerve.
Geese are mean, but a Trumpeter Swan will knock you on your ass.
Oh, and yeah, the Ducks are the most ridiculous race ever, both types, the cursed ones and the stitched ones.
Quote from: CRKrueger;396010Geese are mean, but a Trumpeter Swan will knock you on your ass.
I got attacked by a whooper swan when i was a lad. Hiss! hiss! clack!
Shudder...
Didn't World of Synnibarr have a bunch of crazy-weird stuff going on?
Quote from: CRKrueger;396010Yeah Platypus are nasty, one of the oldest animals still around, their poison consists of 4 toxins, three of which don't occur anywhere else in nature. Morphine doesn't do a damn thing, the toxin acts directly on the pain receptors, only way to relieve the pain is to block the nerve.
It's only the dude Platypuses that have the poison in their ankle spurs. I saw a couple of them fighting in the local creek about six months back during an early morning walk and I would hate to see those bastards at 6 feet long during mating season.
However, Darran's picture second picture of the Duckmen made me snort my drink through my nose, and while I have (sadly) never played Runequest, that will be forever how I envision these Duck's. Thanks Darran!! :)
Quote from: winkingbishop;396007Oh, I'm doing it wrong? There isn't much that can beat the duck. This is especially true when you realize they have infested other media. The video game Suikoden III is one such victim.
Pish. Suikoden's got nothing on the Viera. (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Viera)
Quote from: GnomeWorks;396015Didn't World of Synnibarr have a bunch of crazy-weird stuff going on?
Fuck yeah!
I don't recall any specifically silly PC races, but a number of them are sort of weird.
Elves have the natural ability to secrete an adhesive substance.
Androids ("Bio syntha cyborgs") can change their gender at will.
Priests of Berava are sort of like the Dalai Lama only mostly carnivorous and with a typo in their Strength that lets them throw people into orbit.
Lizardmen get d10 multiple personalities
Dragon men ("Chameleon Drakes") are puritans who are disgusted by the cyborg's gender-bending.
Giants have an additional heart in each foot.
The worst monster in the aliens section, the Neria Bendix, come with a planet-smashing missile as standard equipment and insist they have to conquer the universe so that the souls of their ancestors can rest in the afterlife.
The monsters section of course is where it gets
really silly.
Dont know if thereis a race worst than RQ´s Ducks, but I know there is a race so ridiculous as those..
The "Giff" from Spelljammer..
(http://www.spelljammer.org/monsters/conversions/Giff2.gif)
By the way, is there a setting more ridiculous than Spelljammer ?
Humans!
Humans!
Humans!
Quote from: silva;396046By the way, is there a setting more ridiculous than Spelljammer ?
I don't know hippos are mean...
:D
And stranger than Spelljammer?
The Awesome ENCOUNTER CRITICAL! (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/encounter-critical.htm)
Ridiculous or not, I still like 'em and have them in my campaign world. And, again, ridiculous as compared to what? Elves, dwarves, minotaurs, lizard men, centaurs, etc. etc.? In a fantasy game, it's all ridiculous. People who don't game would think we're ridiculous for making such a distinction.
Quote from: Silverlion;396100I don't know hippos are mean...
:D
And stranger than Spelljammer?
The Awesome ENCOUNTER CRITICAL! (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/encounter-critical.htm)
I love Encounter Critical. But does it count if it's meant to be ridiculous?
Brian
Quote from: ggroy;395967Windlings from Earthdawn.
Bah! Windlings are great!
Just because everyone else makes them the butt of all the jokes doesn't show anything but jealousy!
For utter ridiculousness I nominate dwarves... have you seen them try to run? Seen their women? Even clean shaven they'll put the wilt on you for months. They boast about drinking and warfare... but they get drunk off a teacup of ale and aren't much danger as long as you wear shin guards. They live in holes in the ground to hide their shame... and claim to be mining treasure when in reality their 'cities' are just big sweaty man-caves where they sit around wanking off to pictures of unicorns and peeling dead skin off the bottoms of their feet.
Untidy, smelly, short and useless... but full of boast and bluster. Silly dwarves.
*Recalls a D&D monster called the Flump or somesuch*
Quote from: Narf the Mouse;396186*Recalls a D&D monster called the Flump or somesuch*
ahh, the legendary Flumph.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/DKChannelboredom/DDflumph.jpg)
Hardly a major race, but definetely out there and obviously a cousin of The Flying Spagetti Monster.
Bunrabs from Swordbearer.
Out of interest does anyone know the rationale behind Ducks in RQ?
I mean what made the designers put them in?
Quote from: jibbajibba;396261Out of interest does anyone know the rationale behind Ducks in RQ?
I mean what made the designers put them in?
You mean the in-game Gloranthan rationale? Or the actual reason they ended up in the game?
The answer to the first, in brief, is that the Ducks are the result of a curse. I forget the specifics at the moment, but they were formerly normal men (or man-like beings) who were punished for an act of cowardice by being given a diminutive and laughable appearance. At least that's the rationale that has developed over the decades since they were introduced, along with the name "Durulz" instead of "Ducks".
The real way they made their way into the game was, I believe, typical gonzo stoner humor of the '70s. They owe much to the popularity of Howard the Duck from the era.
!i!
Vargr from Traveller...dogs wearing clothing and creating/manipulating tech with thier paws...right.
What ever happened to the good ol' days of humping bitches,hunting and fighting for position?! All this "advancement" stuff sure gets in the way of a good time...:p
Quote from: skofflox;396316Vargr from Traveller...dogs wearing clothing and creating/manipulating tech with thier paws...right.
What ever happened to the good ol' days of humping bitches,hunting and fighting for position?! All this "advancement" stuff sure gets in the way of a good time...:p
Not 'dogs' , Wolves.
They're very touchy about that.
Just ask the VADL.
(Vargr Anti-Defamation League) - Ed C.
Quote from: skofflox;396316Vargr from Traveller...dogs wearing clothing and creating/manipulating tech with thier paws...right.
What ever happened to the good ol' days of humping bitches,hunting and fighting for position?! All this "advancement" stuff sure gets in the way of a good time...:p
They're also uplifted, in the Brin sense of the word.
Modified to be intelligent, humanoid, people with wolf appearances.
But don't let that impair the silliness.
At least it isn't Transhuman Space's catgirls!
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;395989I recently bought a copy of Gamma World, a game I never read or played before, and I don't know which of the races from the bestiary to nominate. The battle-furying-mace-wielding Badders, the highly intelligent gun-toting Dabbers or the Watership Down-gone-mutant Hoops? It's just silly craziness all over!
How dare you defame Gamma World!
Loves me some Hoops...
At least they aren't 'men in suits' as someone else pointed out...
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;396230ahh, the legendary Flumph.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/DKChannelboredom/DDflumph.jpg)
Hardly a major race, but definetely out there and obviously a cousin of The Flying Spagetti Monster.
Flumphs are my favorite monster in all of D&D, bar none.
Quote from: Tetsubo;396353How dare you defame Gamma World!
Loves me some Hoops...
At least they aren't 'men in suits' as someone else pointed out...
Indeed. Love them and Podogs, and Brutorz, and pinentos, and yexils...
And surely the Drow deserve a mention.
Quote from: Silverlion;396359Indeed. Love them and Podogs, and Brutorz, and pinentos, and yexils...
Quote from: Tetsubo;396353How dare you defame Gamma World!
Loves me some Hoops...
At least they aren't 'men in suits' as someone else pointed out...
aww, guys - I didn't mean it like that. Maybe it's just the lack of Gamma World in my (rpg)upbringing. Gamma World from 1992 just seems damn weird to me, looking at it for the first time here in 2010.
I think that's why Hissers (armed with Luger-like guns and golf clubs) seems more odd than the duck-men, that was part of my first roleplaying experiences in Drager & Dæmoner (a Scandinavian version of Runequest).
Quote from: GnomeWorks;396015Didn't World of Synnibarr have a bunch of crazy-weird stuff going on?
You are being redundant.
Actually, what I find ridiculous - and have ever since I first saw it in D&D, is calling a species a "race". I jarred then, and it jars today.
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;396424Actually, what I find ridiculous - and have ever since I first saw it in D&D, is calling a species a "race". I jarred then, and it jars today.
-clash
Clash wins the thread
Quote from: boulet;396426Clash wins the thread
Another one? Where am I going to put it? If I don't box it up I'm going to have to dust it too - my wife won't touch them! They're all stacked in the back room like firewood. :O
-clash
What can I say? Stop being a smartass for Pete's sake!
Quote from: flyingmice;396424Actually, what I find ridiculous - and have ever since I first saw it in D&D, is calling a species a "race". I jarred then, and it jars today.
-clash
No, I think you might have it backwards.
Its we humans that use the word 'race' strangely here on modern-day Earth.
The weird current usage probably evolved out of a bigoted reason or two over a century ago.
There is only ONE race on Earth right now - the Human race. The strange usage is seperating out different cultuyres, minority groups, and sub-cultures and calling them seperate 'races'.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;396327Not 'dogs' , Wolves.
They're very touchy about that.
No.
First, dogs and wolves are, arguably, the same species. They're the same genera, and though they're often assigned separate species, the former is directly -- and recently, through human intervention -- derived from the latter.
Second, Vargr are not wolves. They're canids, in the same way that all of Humaniti are anthropoids. Calling a Vargr a "dog"
or a "wolf" would be akin to calling a human either an "ape" or a "monkey" -- they probably wouldn't take kindly to it, even if they acknowledged the genetic link.
Third, and finally, as a result of alien genetic intervention, the Vargr have been effectively severed from the canine evolutionary tree. It's as if a cutting was taken from the tree, grafted onto different root stock, then transplanted elsewhere -- it's a separate tree now. The same goes for many of the branches of Humaniti in
Traveller as well.
Quote from: Silverlion;396332At least it isn't Transhuman Space's catgirls!
Foul.
THS catgirls are genetically engineered constructs, not a self-perpetuating species. That said, er...yeah.
!i!
Quote from: boulet;396436What can I say? Stop being a smartass for Pete's sake!
I gotta be me! :D
-clash
Quote from: Ian Absentia;396446No.
First, dogs and wolves are, arguably, the same species. They're the same genera, and though they're often assigned separate species, the former is directly -- and recently, through human intervention -- derived from the latter.
Second, Vargr are not wolves. They're canids, in the same way that all of Humaniti are anthropoids. Calling a Vargr a "dog" or a "wolf" would be akin to calling a human either an "ape" or a "monkey" -- they probably wouldn't take kindly to it, even if they acknowledged the genetic link.
Third, and finally, as a result of alien genetic intervention, the Vargr have been effectively severed from the canine evolutionary tree. It's as if a cutting was taken from the tree, grafted onto different root stock, then transplanted elsewhere -- it's a separate tree now. The same goes for many of the branches of Humaniti in Traveller as well.
!i!
Ahhh...thanks for the clarification all...Vargr still look silly in clothes though.:o
Off Topic question: Are there any games/setting books based on David Brin's "Uplift" universe?This seems to be a REALLY cool setting!
Quote from: skofflox;396461Ahhh...thanks for the clarification all...Vargr still look silly in clothes though.:o
I took that all too seriously. Thank you for being generous. I've always had a soft spot for the Vargr, and in my own "tangential" Third Imperium setting, I've made them the result of
human uplift, not Ancient intervention (which does, in fact, make them descended directly from Canis lupus familiaris).
QuoteOff Topic question: Are there any games/setting books based on David Brin's "Uplift" universe?This seems to be a REALLY cool setting!
There was a
GURPS supplement some years back, which might be interesting for a view of the "Uplift" universe from a gaming perspective. I think that just about any sci-fi RPG could handle the setting adequately -- the GM just needs a sort of encyclopedia and gazeteer to figure out who's who (and when's when -- the series span a few centuries).*
In my opinion, the notion of interstellar uplift is about the only thing that makes multitudes of aliens not seem ridiculous. A single alien race achieves interstellar travel, finds no other intelligent life out there, so they begin to tinker with life forms native to other worlds, bringing them up to sentience. The newly-sentient beings are then also taught to do the same thing, traveling the galaxy to uplift other non-sentient life forms.
!i!
[*Edit: Hey, ask and ye shall receive!
Contacting Aliens: An Illustrated Guide to David Brin's Uplift Universe (http://www.amazon.com/Contacting-Aliens-Illustrated-Uplift-Universe/dp/0553377965).]
Quote from: Ian Absentia;396465I took that all too seriously. Thank you for being generous. I've always had a soft spot for the Vargr, and in my own "tangential" Third Imperium setting, I've made them the result of human uplift, not Ancient intervention (which does, in fact, make them descended directly from Canis lupus familiaris).There was a GURPS supplement some years back, which might be interesting for a view of the "Uplift" universe from a gaming perspective. I think that just about any sci-fi RPG could handle the setting adequately -- the GM just needs a sort of encyclopedia and gazeteer to figure out who's who (and when's when -- the series span a few centuries).*
In my opinion, the notion of interstellar uplift is about the only thing that makes multitudes of aliens not seem ridiculous. A single alien race achieves interstellar travel, finds no other intelligent life out there, so they begin to tinker with life forms native to other worlds, bringing them up to sentience. The newly-sentient beings are then also taught to do the same thing, traveling the galaxy to uplift other non-sentient life forms.
!i!
[*Edit: Hey, ask and ye shall receive! Contacting Aliens: An Illustrated Guide to David Brin's Uplift Universe (http://www.amazon.com/Contacting-Aliens-Illustrated-Uplift-Universe/dp/0553377965).]
Thank you very much! :hatsoff: Cool book...:cool:
I concur with your concluding statements. "Uplift" is one of the most plausible scenarios for a multitude of starfaring beings. And it is one hell of a setting! With all the political machination,who is beholden to whom, the continual search for client species and the question of the Ancients...super cool man! Will keep on the look-out for the GURPS sup.
now back to your regularly scheduled thread...
Quote from: Koltar;396441No, I think you might have it backwards.
Its we humans that use the word 'race' strangely here on modern-day Earth.
The weird current usage probably evolved out of a bigoted reason or two over a century ago.
There is only ONE race on Earth right now - the Human race. The strange usage is seperating out different cultuyres, minority groups, and sub-cultures and calling them seperate 'races'.
- Ed C.
Not, Ed. From Dictionary.com:
race(2) /reɪs/ Show Spelled[reys] Show IPA
–noun
1. a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2. a population so related.
3. Anthropology .
a. any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.
b. an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
c. a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.
4. a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.
5. any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.
6. the human race or family; humankind: Nuclear weapons pose a threat to the race.
7. Zoology . a variety; subspecies.
8. a natural kind of living creature: the race of fishes.
9. any group, class, or kind, esp. of persons: Journalists are an interesting race.
10. the characteristic taste or flavor of wine.
–adjective
11. of or pertaining to the races of humankind.
Origin:
1490–1500; < F < It razza, of obscure orig.
—Synonyms
1. tribe, clan, family, stock, line, breed. Race, people, nation are terms for a large body of persons who may be thought of as a unit because of common characteristics. In the traditional biological and anthropological systems of classification race refers to a group of persons who share such genetically transmitted traits as skin color, hair texture, and eye shape or color: the white race; the yellow race. In reference to classifying the human species, race is now under dispute among modern biologists and anthropologists. Some feel that the term has no biological validity; others use it to specify only a partially isolated reproductive population whose members share a considerable degree of genetic similarity. In certain broader or less technical senses race is sometimes used interchangeably with people. People refers to a body of persons united usually by common interests, ideals, or culture but sometimes also by a common history, language, or ethnic character: We are one people; the peoples of the world; the Swedish people. Nation refers to a body of persons living under an organized government or rule, occupying a defined area, and acting as a unit in matters of peace and war: the English nation. Meaning 6 (your meaning) is clearly not not the main or original meaning. Overwhelmingly, the word meaning is divisive and categorical, not inclusive.
-clash
The distinction, AFAIK, is that two species cannot interbreed (Lizardmen and Humans, for example), while two races can interbreed (Humans and Orcs). Races are a sub-class of species.
So, for Humanity, (In a generic fantasy game), we might have:
Humans - Species
Men - Race
Elves - Race
Orcs - Race
Dwarven - Species
Dwarves - Race
Halflings - Race
Gnomes - Race
Lizardians - Species
Lizardmen - Race
Kobolds - Race
Quote from: flyingmice;396424Actually, what I find ridiculous - and have ever since I first saw it in D&D, is calling a species a "race". I jarred then, and it jars today.
-clash
Hell yes!
Quote from: Koltar;396441No, I think you might have it backwards.
Its we humans that use the word 'race' strangely here on modern-day Earth.
The weird current usage probably evolved out of a bigoted reason or two over a century ago.
There is only ONE race on Earth right now - the Human race. The strange usage is seperating out different cultuyres, minority groups, and sub-cultures and calling them seperate 'races'.
- Ed C.
You can believe, or not, in the existence of races among humans, but humans are not a race, humans are a species.
And dictionaries are immune somehow to the biases and prejudices of the individuals and that write them ?
The human race is...well The Human Race.
Any other definition or hair-splitting is just falling into a trap of semantics that was set by people who died before we were born. They had a stake in people not getting along with each. They didn't want people to know much they had in common - so use the language to be divisive. Doesn't mean we in the present have to.
- Ed C.
Quote from: RPGPundit;395966Runequest has its famous Duck-men... the question is whether there's a major race of a known RPG world that you consider more ridiculous than the duck men?
RPGPundit
Actually as a long time lover of the USA series "Duckman" I can say that a race of duckmen could be entertaining.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duckman
Hmm, you know a duckman rpg could be good, and duckman would make a good NPC...
Now, as to utterly ridiculous, there were the duck cylons:
http://www.clubdesmonstres.com/best/img/starodyssey4.jpg
I don't think anyone's put them in a game yet, though.
Now since there's a new DR. who RPG, it means that there have to be rules for playing these:
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/File:Untitled-77.jpg
Quote from: Koltar;396524And dictionaries are immune somehow to the biases and prejudices of the individuals and that write them ?
The human race is...well The Human Race.
Any other definition or hair-splitting is just falling into a trap of semantics that was set by people who died before we were born. They had a stake in people not getting along with each. They didn't want people to know much they had in common - so use the language to be divisive. Doesn't mean we in the present have to.
- Ed C.
And somehow you are immune to dictionaries. Ed - I'm a writer. A professional writer, making a good living from writing. I love words - they are creatures of joy and beauty to me. You do not determine what words mean. They gain their meaning due to general consensus. In other words, it doesn't really matter what you want, what matters is what everyone else wants. Words are created as tools to communication. If everyone is allowed to define their own private meaning, not much is going to get communicated. So you are just flat wrong. Believe the dictionary - it's not trying to lie to you.
Claudius is exactly correct - humans are a species, Homo Sapiens Sapiens, not a race, and what you would prefer to be true has no bearing on the matter. I'm not going to argue this because it is beyond argument. If you refuse to accept reality, then just babble on and I will ignore you - I will ignore you because I will know that you are not interested in communicating, but only in indulging some strange verbal wish fulfillment.
-clash
For ridiculous race?
The Drow.
They're just variations on Elves.
Or sometimes they're called "Dark Elves".
Thats a kind of a bigotry within a fiction or what others might call racism in our world - just because the Drow have a different skin color.
Also silly are Humans for using terminology badly over the centuries to seperate themselves from each other. (Sometimes intentional misuse of terminology).
In the wikipedia article on 'Human' and 'Humans', there is this bit of info:
QuoteGenetic studies have substantiated the absence of clear biological borders, thus the term "race" is rarely used in scientific terminology, both in biological anthropology and in human genetics.[citation needed]
What in the past had been defined as "races"—e.g., whites, blacks, or Asians—are now defined as "ethnic groups" or "populations", in correlation with the field (sociology, anthropology, genetics) in which they are considered.
The implied conclusion to the second paragraph is that technically we are all the same race now - Human. Its just that people are too caught up in their own political baggage and upbringing to recognize that. After all, its easier to dislike, dismiss, or hate someone if you beliueve that he or she is a different race. If you acknowledge that you and they are part of the same people (or race) - gee, then you might have to talk to them
Probably a big reason why Humans are pretty ridiculous at times.
- Ed C.
Article I took the quote from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human
Aren't the 'Dark Elves' one of the groups, along with dwarves, that were created out of maggots crawling through the giant dead frost giant Ymir's corpse in Norse Mythology? Svartalfar? Or were those just dwarves with a different name?
Quote from: Simlasa;396534Aren't the 'Dark Elves' one of the groups, along with dwarves, that were created out of maggots crawling through the giant dead frost giant Ymir's corpse in Norse Mythology? Svartalfar? Or were those just dwarves with a different name?
Which author's books?
Which game setting?
Thats part of the problem right there.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Simlasa;396534Aren't the 'Dark Elves' one of the groups, along with dwarves, that were created out of maggots crawling through the giant dead frost giant Ymir's corpse in Norse Mythology? Svartalfar? Or were those just dwarves with a different name?
Quote from: Koltar;396535Which author's books?
Which game setting?
Thats part of the problem right there.
- Ed C.
Heh, Simsala is obviously referring to classic Scandinavian/Norse mythology - so there's not really
one author :)
I don't think the black elves (svartalfar) of Norse mythology had much to do with Drow. They were more goblin-like, as in small hideous underground dwelling creatures, and as Simsala mentions, closer to dwarves than to (D&D)elves.
Quote from: Simlasa;396534Aren't the 'Dark Elves' one of the groups, along with dwarves, that were created out of maggots crawling through the giant dead frost giant Ymir's corpse in Norse Mythology? Svartalfar? Or were those just dwarves with a different name?
There are no clear boundaries between elves and dwarfs in classic mythology. In fact, if you go to the dictionary (rather than a Tolkien-derived fantasy gaming system), the one is used as a definition for the other.
The "Drow" and the "Derro" are actually the same word, using almost precisely the same pronunciation and only slightly different transliteration. None the less, Gygax seized upon the two spellings appearing in two different stories to produce one set of Dark
Elves and one set of Dark
Dwarves. This carries on a long tradition of splitting up monsters any way it can be done, which is why the Catoblepas, the Medusa, and the Gorgon are three different monsters in D&D, despite the fact that mythologically speaking that's only two ("Gorgon" being simply a word that means "monster that turns things to stone" that includes both Medusa and Catoblepas - and Basilisk for that matter).
So I would nominate the Derro as the most ridiculous. Because they were actually already in the game
under that name with a functionally identical schtick when they were written in separately.
-Frank
Quote from: FrankTrollman;396571There are no clear boundaries between elves and dwarfs in classic mythology. In fact, if you go to the dictionary (rather than a Tolkien-derived fantasy gaming system), the one is used as a definition for the other.
The "Drow" and the "Derro" are actually the same word, using almost precisely the same pronunciation and only slightly different transliteration. None the less, Gygax seized upon the two spellings appearing in two different stories to produce one set of Dark Elves and one set of Dark Dwarves. This carries on a long tradition of splitting up monsters any way it can be done, which is why the Catoblepas, the Medusa, and the Gorgon are three different monsters in D&D, despite the fact that mythologically speaking that's only two ("Gorgon" being simply a word that means "monster that turns things to stone" that includes both Medusa and Catoblepas - and Basilisk for that matter).
So I would nominate the Derro as the most ridiculous. Because they were actually already in the game under that name with a functionally identical schtick when they were written in separately.
-Frank
Huh. I always figured that the Derro were a Shaver swipe.
http://cobblerkhan.blogspot.com/2009/12/detrimental-robots-are-coming-for-you.html