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5th Edition Wandering Monsters Poll

Started by jadrax, April 09, 2013, 09:48:44 AM

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Mistwell

#15
April 09, 2013, 02:40:29 PM Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 02:43:34 PM by Mistwell
Quote from: thedungeondelver;644442"If I KEEP saying the SAME THINGS over and over for MORE THAN A DECADE it MAKES THEM TRUE!"

BEEP BOOP INTERNET RESPONSE MACHINE BEEP BOOP

seriously isn't enworld missing its village idiot right now, mistwell

But you have not said anything yet.  They took the old wandering monster tables (he says right in the article that was his starting place) and then made some changes to adapt it to the new game.  You have a complaint about this.  Your complaint is "reinventing the wheel".  I've asked "why do you think this cannot be an improvement?"  You bitched.  I'm asking again - why is it you think this cannot be an improvement?  

You just repeating an empty complaint, totally devoid of the reasoning behind your position, isn't meaningful.  It looks like rote orthodoxy.

If you want people to think your position is not orthodoxy, MAKE A FUCKING ARGUMENT BACKING UP YOUR POSITION.  PROVIDE ANY REASON BEHIND YOUR POSITION.

Mistwell

#16
April 09, 2013, 02:41:25 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;644447I'm neither of them, but I'll give you my response.

Fuck 5E and WotC. I'm already bored with this puppet show of a playtest.

I've found the fantasy RPG system to suit my needs and it is Pathfinder/3.x D&D and Labyrinth Lord/B&X D&D with some extra stuff stolen from MERP and Artesia.

Cool, but still does not support the position of "This is reinventing the wheel and cannot be an improvement".

thedungeondelver

#17
April 09, 2013, 02:46:44 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;644449But you have not s

honey, honey...shhhh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t894eGoymio
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

crkrueger

#18
April 09, 2013, 02:47:08 PM Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 02:50:15 PM by CRKrueger
Quote from: Riordan;644424but around here it's the struggle itself that counts. The agonies and torments. :D
Ok, that was funny.

Just because the planes will have names doesn't mean the names won't be...


As far as the environments go, it looks more like a return then a revising.   Not sure there's anything new there, but then again, why would there be.

Now the monster types seem to be more 3e and 4e style official "mechanic tags".  That's ok, but I hope they don't go nuts with it like 3e did.

The treasure tables do actually look like an improvement, the result is the same as 1e (ie. look up the table and roll), but the types of tables are easier to wrap your head around then (A, B, H).
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Exploderwizard

#19
April 09, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;644434I am just saying maybe re-looking at the old wandering monster tables and trying to improve them isn't re-inventing the wheel, it's just trying to make it a better wheel.  If you have a reason for why those old tables were perfect as-is and should not be considered for improvement (other than martinet orthodoxy), please let me know.  That would be, you know, an actual response to my position.  I've posited your over-reactions look like adherence to some orthodoxy.  


How is the wheel being made better exactly?

Level: Unless you are talking about dungeon level, this is pointless. Hill giants live in the fucking hills, not just (hills-med. to high level).

Terrain type: SSDD. The types of areas where monsters are found was always in the MM entry. How is telling us what grassland is an improvement?


Monster Type: Keyword categorization  nonsense. 3Etard template fodder.

Treasure type: why are pre-supposing the presence of chests, pouches, etc. Let the DM be creative as to the location of lair treasures.
 Treasure types for lairs vs individuals is fine but we already had that.


I'm not seeing any useful innovation here.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Rincewind1

#20
April 09, 2013, 02:50:57 PM
One thing that 3e bestiary had, and I think the 1e/5e bestiary'd benefit from as well, was giving monsters stats (as in strength, dexterity etc.). I have no qualm with rolling 3d6 on the fly and adding a modifier to represent Orc's actual strength, but it'd be nice to have a frame of reference.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

The Traveller

#21
April 09, 2013, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Benoist;644386Reinventing the wheel, part 2434234232.
Forget 2003, some of us have yellowed pieces of paper that crackle when you bend them doing the same thing.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

jeff37923

#22
April 09, 2013, 02:57:47 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;644450Cool, but still does not support the position of "This is reinventing the wheel and cannot be an improvement".

Actually, it does, because if it was not reinventing the wheel and was an improvement, then I would be still paying attention to the WotC puppet show playtest.

You are just at a loss to articulate a rational counter-arguement. Which, in itself, is pretty sad for someone who identifies himself as a lawyer.
"Meh."

jeff37923

#23
April 09, 2013, 02:59:19 PM
Quote from: Rincewind1;644455One thing that 3e bestiary had, and I think the 1e/5e bestiary'd benefit from as well, was giving monsters stats (as in strength, dexterity etc.). I have no qualm with rolling 3d6 on the fly and adding a modifier to represent Orc's actual strength, but it'd be nice to have a frame of reference.

Agreed. I thought it was dumb at first, but found the monster stats to be very useful in a lot of ways that came up during play.
"Meh."

Imp

#24
April 09, 2013, 03:12:40 PM
This stuff seems generally unobjectionable. Can you have "useful innovation" in every section of a game? If they did change it, would you be screaming about it?

Though I guess the question is, if you aren't really changing something, why bother publicizing it? I guess it's an attempt to get 4e players' feet wet since it seems like a small departure otherwise.


Re monster stats, I like having them, although it would do to think about their scaling & effects a bit more than 3e did - don't really like adding +8 or +10 to every large animal's damage rolls.

The Ent

#25
April 09, 2013, 03:23:49 PM
Innovative? No.

A return to form? Possibly! :)

Face it, 4e didn't Even have random encounter tables, afaik. That stuff like random encounters and random Treasure and the old Planes are returning...surely that's gotta be a good sign.

jadrax

#26
April 09, 2013, 03:28:55 PM
Quote from: Imp;644472Re monster stats, I like having them, although it would do to think about their scaling & effects a bit more than 3e did - don't really like adding +8 or +10 to every large animal's damage rolls.

Going by the stuff in the play-test, the plan seems to be to try and scale all the numbers back to something like they were pre 3rd ed.

Spinachcat

#27
April 09, 2013, 03:29:45 PM
Outside of Planescape, the Great Wheel was pretty lame and that's why you rarely saw any mention of planar stuff back in 1e adventures. The best known plane adventure "Demon Web Pits" is a tack on location to the Great Wheel.

The 4e cosmology is far superior for actual play because the various planes invade and effect the world and thus explain the presence of many monsters.

Quote from: Mistwell;644408IOr does the Orthodox Temple of Gygax forbid variance from the one true word?

That's the sound of Gygaxian ass sucking! Or as Gygax acolytes call it, the breakfast of champions.

crkrueger

#28
April 09, 2013, 03:38:45 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;644482That's the sound of Gygaxian ass sucking! Or as Gygax acolytes call it, the breakfast of champions.
It's good that you're not bitter. :D
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Rincewind1

#29
April 09, 2013, 03:39:57 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;644487It's good that you're not bitter. :D

Bitter like Gygax' asshole's taste? :P
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed
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