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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 01:32:01 PM

Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 01:32:01 PM
Here's a little tidbit found on WotC board...(http://community.wizards.com/sites/mtgcommunity/files/styles/large/public/WildMagic.jpg?itok=__5flXWp)...(http://community.wizards.com/sites/mtgcommunity/files/styles/large/public/Wild-Magic-104.jpg?itok=OMWjMcqA)http://www.codenamemorningstar.com/blog/i-get-a-wild-magic-oh-what-a-wild-magic/ (http://www.codenamemorningstar.com/blog/i-get-a-wild-magic-oh-what-a-wild-magic/)
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: The Ent on August 02, 2014, 01:34:57 PM
Nice. Good mix of harmful stuff, helpful stuff, and weird stuff.

On first glance looks better than the old 2e/Forgotten Realms Wild Magic chart.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Sacrosanct on August 02, 2014, 01:38:45 PM
It's kind of funny to have read some of the reactions to this the other day, with some people saying how 5e is broken if wild magic also allows harmful things to happen.

??????

That's kind of the point of it.  I personally don't like it either.  But guess what?  I'm not playing a wild mage.

Kind of like people rail about how gay marriage is so bad.  Don't want to marry someone of the same sex?  Then don't.  Don't like wild magic?  Then don't have a wild mage.

Seems simple to me.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 01:40:39 PM
I love Wild Mages they are FUN!!!! Besides it's only a 5% chance of even rolling on that chart.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Will on August 02, 2014, 01:52:34 PM
I'm likely to not allow wild magic in my campaigns, but cool anyway. ;)
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Mistwell on August 02, 2014, 01:57:52 PM
It's weird to see people saying a 0.1% chance of fireballing the party at first level is too much risk.  What sort of adventurer is that risk averse? Come on now, the whole point is you are taking great risk fighting horrible things for great reward.  If you cannot handle that extremely low level of risk, what they heck are you doing adventuring in the first place?
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: The Ent on August 02, 2014, 02:01:00 PM
2e Wild Mages were fun, and this looks to be too.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Necrozius on August 02, 2014, 02:01:13 PM
After playing WFRP and Dark Heresy, I might just use this table for other weird magical side-effects.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Simlasa on August 02, 2014, 02:02:18 PM
Magic without risk has never seemed very 'magical' to me... but I like the magic in Dungeon Crawl Classics... and this seems mild in comparison.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Saplatt on August 02, 2014, 02:13:07 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;774877It's weird to see people saying a 0.1% chance of fireballing the party at first level is too much risk.  What sort of adventurer is that risk averse? Come on now, the whole point is you are taking great risk fighting horrible things for great reward.  If you cannot handle that extremely low level of risk, what they heck are you doing adventuring in the first place?

Last week, I fire-balled half the party just to take out some pesky undead. I could have sculpted the spell to avoid it, but figured I might need to save that stunt for later.

Later on I got fire-balled back in a similar situation, and I took it like a man.

Chaos Sorcerers look pretty tame by comparison.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 02:15:19 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;774877It's weird to see people saying a 0.1% chance of fireballing the party at first level is too much risk.  What sort of adventurer is that risk averse? Come on now, the whole point is you are taking great risk fighting horrible things for great reward.  If you cannot handle that extremely low level of risk, what they heck are you doing adventuring in the first place?

Pretty much. The more important thing is the variable level deal with your d20 roll then the Surge Table anyway that's where the real risk is involved.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 02:17:19 PM
Quote from: Saplatt;774884Last week, I fire-balled half the party just to take out some pesky undead. I could have sculpted the spell to avoid it, but figured I might need to save that stunt for later.

Later on I got fire-balled back in a similar situation, and I took it like a man.

Chaos Sorcerers look pretty tame by comparison.

You can use that knack on any Evocation spell you sling there are no limits to it. Unless this is PF?
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: One Horse Town on August 02, 2014, 02:20:55 PM
Any chance you can do something about that picture? It just temporarily broke my computer.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 02:24:49 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;774888Any chance you can do something about that picture? It just temporarily broke my computer.
I tried but it wouldn't change it. I could just link it? Give me a minute, better now?
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Saplatt on August 02, 2014, 02:26:42 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;774887You can use that knack on any Evocation spell you sling there are no limits to it. Unless this is PF?

In general yes. But my character gets the knack by way of a 3.5 prestige class that gives him limited free uses of it per day.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 02:31:29 PM
Quote from: Saplatt;774891In general yes. But my character gets the knack by way of a 3.5 prestige class that gives him limited free uses of it per day.

I get you. At first I was thinking you were talking about 5e but then remembered you are currently playing PF.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Saplatt on August 02, 2014, 03:06:12 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;774893I get you. At first I was thinking you were talking about 5e but then remembered you are currently playing PF.

Actually, it's a high level 3.5/PF hybrid where virtually anything goes, and I'm amazed that the DM is still able to manage it, because if I had to run it, I would have blown my brains out six months ago.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 03:10:49 PM
Quote from: Saplatt;774904Actually, it's a high level 3.5/PF hybrid where virtually anything goes, and I'm amazed that the DM is still able to manage it, because if I had to run it, I would have blown my brains out six months ago.

We tried a epic level 3.5 game once. It did not work out well at all. So I am impressed with anybody that could handle a 3.5 or PF game above say 10th level.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Blacky the Blackball on August 02, 2014, 03:11:03 PM
Wild Magic Shmild Magic!

If there's not a Wand of Wonder in the DMG then I'll be severely disappointed.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: Blacky the Blackball;774907Wild Magic Shmild Magic!

If there's not a Wand of Wonder in the DMG then I'll be severely disappointed.

Well we have our Guantlets of Ogre Power so you have to know the Wand of Wonder will be kicking around.:)
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Saplatt on August 02, 2014, 03:17:37 PM
Quote from: Blacky the Blackball;774907If there's not a Wand of Wonder in the DMG then I'll be severely disappointed.

Good times!  Every time I've had one of those, I wind up spraying people with daffodils and turning their hair into grass. I turned in my robes for a tie-dyed T-shirt.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: dragoner on August 02, 2014, 03:35:19 PM
Wild magic looks fun. :)
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Natty Bodak on August 02, 2014, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;774877It's weird to see people saying a 0.1% chance of fireballing the party at first level is too much risk.  What sort of adventurer is that risk averse? Come on now, the whole point is you are taking great risk fighting horrible things for great reward.  If you cannot handle that extremely low level of risk, what they heck are you doing adventuring in the first place?

The chances of any of my parties over the years being hit by friendly-fireball is way higher than that, and that's without wild magic in the mix. When there's no time to take a bath, a cleansing by fire in the next best thing.

I guess pablum is too stiff of a drink for some folks.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 06:28:48 PM
Quote from: Natty Bodak;774924The chances of any of my parties over the years being hit by friendly-fireball is way higher than that, and that's without wild magic in the mix. When there's no time to take a bath, a cleansing by fire in the next best thing.

I guess pablum is too stiff of a drink for some folks.

The odds of a fireball hitting you if I'm running a wild mage is so tiny it's not a worry.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Blacky the Blackball on August 02, 2014, 07:13:50 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;774936The odds of a fireball hitting you if I'm running a wild mage is so tiny it's not a worry.

And I promise you that if it does, and wipes out a first level party at my table, we'll fall about the place laughing at the absurdity rather than bitching about it.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Omega on August 02, 2014, 07:35:43 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;774936The odds of a fireball hitting you if I'm running a wild mage is so tiny it's not a worry.

Four point blank fireballs later... :jaw-dropping:
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: dragoner on August 02, 2014, 07:36:49 PM
Quote from: Blacky the Blackball;774948And I promise you that if it does, and wipes out a first level party at my table, we'll fall about the place laughing at the absurdity rather than bitching about it.

Pretty much. Stuff happens.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 07:36:51 PM
Quote from: Blacky the Blackball;774948And I promise you that if it does, and wipes out a first level party at my table, we'll fall about the place laughing at the absurdity rather than bitching about it.

Exactly. Just roll with it, literally. I may roll low on d6's but tend to roll average on d20's and high on d%'s.:)

5r's version of the Wild Mage looks like real fun yet not that party disruptive at the same time. Just read how it actually works if you use Tides of Chaos and stop blaming the player. It's all up to the DM if they choose to be a dick, full stop, go to jail, end of story, no pass go.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Saplatt on August 02, 2014, 07:47:18 PM
I remember a cursed scroll table where one of the results was that the reader would be turned to water and drain away.

The MU bought a small washtub and stepped into it before reading any scroll.

People adapt.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 08:16:43 PM
Quote from: Saplatt;774959I remember a cursed scroll table where one of the results was that the reader would be turned to water and drain away.

The MU bought a small washtub and stepped into it before reading any scroll.

People adapt.

Within a month there will be 100 homebrew versions of that chart if not 1000. You roll the dice and have fun.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: YourSwordisMine on August 02, 2014, 08:36:38 PM
I love the entry for 41-42.

I lol'd
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Silverlion on August 02, 2014, 09:49:59 PM
Well, thanks to this, I likely won't be running 5E for my group. I can't stand wild magic, and one of them says he won't play unless he gets all the PHB options. It doesn't fit my world, neither do Dragonborn, so they're both out.

I'm sad that one of my players seems to be turning into one of the asshats from "Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising"
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 02, 2014, 10:49:50 PM
Quote from: Silverlion;774996Well, thanks to this, I likely won't be running 5E for my group. I can't stand wild magic, and one of them says he won't play unless he gets all the PHB options. It doesn't fit my world, neither do Dragonborn, so they're both out.

I'm sad that one of my players seems to be turning into one of the asshats from "Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising"

Seriously? Come on now. The surge table only is in play on a 1 on a D20!  Marley Kitty is very sad now and may have to ask Grumpy Cat for backup.... :)
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Raven on August 02, 2014, 11:49:20 PM
edit
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Silverlion on August 02, 2014, 11:57:13 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;775022Seriously? Come on now. The surge table only is in play on a 1 on a D20!  Marley Kitty is very sad now and may have to ask Grumpy Cat for backup.... :)


That's not how magic works in my setting, sorry. Plus the backgound makes that if magic went wild on you--people would STONE you. Or something similar.

Magic did bad stuff, and left its mark. People accept it, only barely. If it goes wild, your looking at being hunted and destroyed.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: crkrueger on August 03, 2014, 12:02:37 AM
Quote from: Silverlion;775042That's not how magic works in my setting, sorry. Plus the backgound makes that if magic went wild on you--people would STONE you. Or something similar.

Magic did bad stuff, and left its mark. People accept it, only barely. If it goes wild, your looking at being hunted and destroyed.

Two issues.
1. Not having Wild Magic work in your setting?  Well, that's why they call it your setting.  Anyone who argues with you on that is an asshat.
2. The real problem is, it seems like some of your players, or at least one, is an asshat.

Flush him or just don't invite him when the rest of you play 5e in a world without Wild Magic and weird mammalian dragon people.

When you get a jackass like that, you either run your game or let him run your game through blackmail.  I know you are in the ass-end of nowhere and all, but you gotta nip that shit in the bud.  Tell Mr. "I gotta have" to nut up and run his own game or go fuck himself and his sister's horse.

Switching the game you want to run because one guy insists on defining your setting for you is handing him the keys, you may as well just put on the clown costume to give them a good show every weekend, because now you're the performing Screen Monkey.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Just Another Snake Cult on August 03, 2014, 12:05:04 AM
My inner child loves randomness and chaos.

My inner adult likes for power to carry risks and consequences.

My players are gonna EAT THIS UP. They think it's hysterical when people mutate or explode or switch sexual orientation or barf up demons or re-enact the defibrillator scene from John Carpenter's THE THING. If anything, this chart will not be Chaotic enough for them.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: crkrueger on August 03, 2014, 12:08:51 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;775022Seriously? Come on now. The surge table only is in play on a 1 on a D20!  Marley Kitty is very sad now and may have to ask Grumpy Cat for backup.... :)

If there's one thing you can be sure Grumpy Cat doesn't like, it's Magic.  If there's one thing you can be sure Grumpy Cat REALLY doesn't like, it's Wild Magic.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 03, 2014, 12:12:26 AM
Quote from: Silverlion;775042That's not how magic works in my setting, sorry. Plus the backgound makes that if magic went wild on you--people would STONE you. Or something similar.

Magic did bad stuff, and left its mark. People accept it, only barely. If it goes wild, your looking at being hunted and destroyed.

Really? Nit ever work ever? Come on man! Awesome magic is regulated and Wild Mages are hunted.... sounds like Dragonlance and Wheel of Time to me.. bring it on honey.:)
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: eexcessive on August 03, 2014, 12:15:31 AM
Quote from: CRKrueger;775044Two issues.
1. Not having Wild Magic work in your setting?  Well, that's why they call it your setting.  Anyone who argues with you on that is an asshat.
2. The real problem is, it seems like some of your players, or at least one, is an asshat.

Flush him or just don't invite him when the rest of you play 5e in a world without Wild Magic and weird mammalian dragon people.

When you get a jackass like that, you either run your game or let him run your game through blackmail.  I know you are in the ass-end of nowhere and all, but you gotta nip that shit in the bud.  Tell Mr. "I gotta have" to nut up and run his own game or go fuck himself and his sister's horse.

Switching the game you want to run because one guy insists on defining your setting for you is handing him the keys, you may as well just put on the clown costume to give them a good show every weekend, because now you're the performing Screen Monkey.

+1
This sums up any response I could make.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: crkrueger on August 03, 2014, 12:15:59 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;775049Really? Nit ever work ever? Come on man!

Why would he sacrifice the integrity of his setting for something just cause it's kewl?

I loves me some Wands of Wonder and Bags of Beans, but Chaos Magic as a source of magic always present or always available...it has to have it's place, which isn't going to be every world.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 03, 2014, 12:21:14 AM
Quote from: CRKrueger;775048If there's one thing you can be sure Grumpy Cat doesn't like, it's Magic.  If there's one thing you can be sure Grumpy Cat REALLY doesn't like, it's Wild Magic.

You sir, don't know know Grumpy Cat
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 03, 2014, 12:25:24 AM
Quote from: CRKrueger;775052Why would he sacrifice the integrity of his setting for something just cause it's kewl?

I loves me some Wands of Wonder and Bags of Beans, but Chaos Magic as a source of magic always present or always available...it has to have it's place, which isn't going to be every world.

Again  you read into things way too far black and white, especially in my posts....so sad... catch up already!
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Mistwell on August 03, 2014, 01:17:30 AM
Quote from: Silverlion;774996Well, thanks to this, I likely won't be running 5E for my group. I can't stand wild magic, and one of them says he won't play unless he gets all the PHB options. It doesn't fit my world, neither do Dragonborn, so they're both out.

I'm sad that one of my players seems to be turning into one of the asshats from "Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising"

Uh, I think you're fine.  Read the Wild Surge rules again.  It'd completely up to DM discretion when they need to roll on the chart.  It says the DM can call for a role, but they do not have to.  So...never call for a roll.  Player gets all the PHB options, but you get the call in accord with the rules as written in those options.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Necrozius on August 03, 2014, 07:27:09 AM
Quote from: Mistwell;775060Uh, I think you're fine.  Read the Wild Surge rules again.  It'd completely up to DM discretion when they need to roll on the chart.  It says the DM can call for a role, but they do not have to.  So...never call for a roll.  Player gets all the PHB options, but you get the call in accord with the rules as written in those options.

I suppose that the GM could just choose from the list for an effect that would be "appropriate" or contextual. Fire spell = weird flame effect.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Exploderwizard on August 03, 2014, 08:39:34 AM
The table just seems kind of bland to me. I like the idea of wild magic but prefer riskier tables. I think once the PHB is out, I will have a go at designing my own.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Will on August 03, 2014, 10:16:48 AM
You could make different wild magic tables.
You could even make location-based wild magic tables.

Or, yeah, wing it as GM.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Silverlion on August 03, 2014, 11:14:21 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;775049Really? Nit ever work ever? Come on man! Awesome magic is regulated and Wild Mages are hunted.... sounds like Dragonlance and Wheel of Time to me.. bring it on honey.:)


Nope. Anyone who did wild magic if such a thing existed would be extinct by the game time. Never mind "that isn't how magic works" in the setting, is a thing. I've got this history of events, and a pattern to the past, that I like, and am not changing it to suit a player or players. If they said something like "Hey, I'd like to try this for a game, can we try a different setting for a short bit so I can?" Sure! I'd try that.



QuoteFlush him or just don't invite him when the rest of you play 5e in a world without Wild Magic and weird mammalian dragon people.

When you get a jackass like that, you either run your game or let him run your game through blackmail. I know you are in the ass-end of nowhere and all, but you gotta nip that shit in the bud. Tell Mr. "I gotta have" to nut up and run his own game or go fuck himself and his sister's horse.


Ah, I'm not worried about it. Just sad that D&D thought something like that made sense to be "core" (hell I'm sad it has Sorcerers and Warlocks..) then again 2E seems to have been my sweet spot for classes.


He doesn't want to play, that's fine. I've got plenty of other games I'll enjoy running. If this were my only play group, and I just had to run D&D? Yeah, dump him in a heartbeat. It doesn't help that some players seam to think being a diva means they'll get there way. Frankly, I don't have time for that.


I've got one friend who wants me to start up a game and if I said "D&D but NO magic." he'd squeal like a girl. (Not really, but its the best analogy I can come up with.)
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Will on August 03, 2014, 11:28:19 AM
The 5e thing seems to be a greater encouragement to provide a lot of material and then openly give you permission to remove stuff.

Which has never been a problem for ME, but given people like Silverlion's friend, apparently it's an important deal. ;)
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Xavier Onassiss on August 03, 2014, 12:41:07 PM
Still the same old Wild Magic... pretty much a "Kill On Sight" character as far as I'm concerned. How much XP are they worth?
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Natty Bodak on August 03, 2014, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;775060Uh, I think you're fine.  Read the Wild Surge rules again.  It'd completely up to DM discretion when they need to roll on the chart.  It says the DM can call for a role, but they do not have to.  So...never call for a roll.  Player gets all the PHB options, but you get the call in accord with the rules as written in those options.

It's weird that they are positioning this as a DM discretion thing. The DM *may* call for a roll which *may* trigger an effect. As a DM why do I want to have to evaluate this every time the magic 8 ball shakes himself? In lieu of some sort of guidance as to when/why the DM might or might not want to call for that roll just roll the d20 and get your special snowflake chaos jollies.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 03, 2014, 03:54:20 PM
I'm not really getting all the angst about allowing the DM to make you roll on the Surge Table after using Tides of Chaos. If you don't want the disruption don't do something like that. It's not required so blame the DM not the class in this case.

I could see a DM doing that in some games depending how you set up the baseline for magic in your game. And at least it does refresh Tides of Chaos automatically instead of at a long rest if a DM were to want you to roll in the first place.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: crkrueger on August 03, 2014, 04:03:55 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;775055Again  you read into things way too far black and white, especially in my posts....so sad... catch up already!

So sayeth the living non-sequitur.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Harshael on August 03, 2014, 08:06:29 PM
Quote from: Natty Bodak;775245It's weird that they are positioning this as a DM discretion thing. The DM *may* call for a roll which *may* trigger an effect. As a DM why do I want to have to evaluate this every time the magic 8 ball shakes himself? In lieu of some sort of guidance as to when/why the DM might or might not want to call for that roll just roll the d20 and get your special snowflake chaos jollies.

You're right that your reading does[n't] offer satisfactory direction.

I interpreted that as the GM may or may not require Wild Mages to roll on the table at all, not that the GM had to make a decision every time.  It could be clearer.

This thread gives me the idea for a setting where Wild Magic is the only magic.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 03, 2014, 10:25:23 PM
Quote from: Harshael;775379You're right that your reading does offer satisfactory direction.

I interpreted that as the GM may or may not require Wild Mages to roll on the table at all, not that the GM had to make a decision every time.  It could be clearer.

This thread gives me the idea for a setting where Wild Magic is the only magic.

Again it's only for a class ability why even enforce it? I think too many people parse way too much out of any class ability, feat and the like because of the aftermath of catering to a tiny subset of the overall community ie. 4e. Roll a D20 and either use the +/- table or on a 1 use the surge table, why all the drama?
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Natty Bodak on August 03, 2014, 11:03:15 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;775415Again it's only for a class ability why even enforce it? I think too many people parse way too much out of any class ability, feat and the like because of the aftermath of catering to a tiny subset of the overall community ie. 4e. Roll a D20 and either use the +/- table or on a 1 use the surge table, why all the drama?

There's no drama here other than what you see in your frantic fever dreams. We're just trying to figure out what they were going for in making several class features dependent on the GM giving a fuck.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: flyerfan1991 on August 03, 2014, 11:10:25 PM
That chart is like a Wand of Wonder decided to shack up with a Deck of Many Things, and they had a love child.

Honestly, I'd prefer that the chance of a wild magic surge increases by 5% with each successful cast until a surge actually happens, then it resets back to normal.  Then again, it's just me and my desire to add a little chaos into everyone's life.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 03, 2014, 11:22:06 PM
Quote from: Natty Bodak;775425There's no drama here other than what you see in your frantic fever dreams. We're just trying to figure out what they were going for in making several class features dependent on the GM giving a fuck.

Natty Bodak, I'm not frantic but you seem to be. So tell me what your issue is with me already please skip the passive aggressive bullshit though given it'd be helpful.

The point is the DM shouldn't have to give a fuck you twit. You roll a 1 on a D20 you roll on the surge table. Big deal you get a daily power as an adder or subtracter end of story unless YOU as the DM decree otherwise, you..not the class get it yet?
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Harshael on August 04, 2014, 12:04:25 AM
Quote from: flyerfan1991;775430That chart is like a Wand of Wonder decided to shack up with a Deck of Many Things, and they had a love child.

Honestly, I'd prefer that the chance of a wild magic surge increases by 5% with each successful cast until a surge actually happens, then it resets back to normal.  Then again, it's just me and my desire to add a little chaos into everyone's life.

That's wicked. I like it. Keeping track of it would be a hassle, though.

Really, I think this sort of magic system is far more interesting than the usual "super hero," no drawback style. Paradox in Mage and whatsits in 40K, the arcanist in Iron Heroes. Magic should be dangerous.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Raven on August 04, 2014, 12:20:46 AM
Only ran Dark Heresy infrequently but the psyker backlash rules were a huge and hilarious hit at our table. 5e wild mage is tame by comparison.

I wonder how much of the hate for wild mages is due not to the class but Nahal's Reckless Dweomer (http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58173), a 1st level spell from 2e that almost always forced a wild surge roll rather than the much smaller chance that one would occur spontaneously?
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Natty Bodak on August 04, 2014, 12:24:35 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;775433Natty Bodak, I'm not frantic but you seem to be. So tell me what your issue is with me already please skip the passive aggressive bullshit though given it'd be helpful.

You consistently respond to people as if they've said something they didn't, responding condescendingly and didactically, which is a shitty tone. And in doing so you never actually participate in the conversation people are having. This is why you're getting the "non sequitur" nicknames, and that is largely my problem with you. A smaller element of my problem with you is that I read a lot of thinly veiled system mastery/power gamer shibboleths in your posts about 5e, and I find that tedious.

Quote from: Marleycat;775433The point is the DM shouldn't have to give a fuck you twit. You roll a 1 on a D20 you roll on the surge table. Big deal you get a daily power as an adder or subtracter end of story unless YOU as the DM decree otherwise, you..not the class get it yet?

I don't know if it's a reading comprehension or English-as-a-second-language kind of issue, but again there's no drama or angst here.

I am simply curious as to why they worded some class features (for our purposes here let's focus on Wild Magic Surge) the way they did. I'm not sure why they delegate it to the DM to make a decision about whether calling for a 1d20 roll to see if a roll on the table is needed.  Is there supposed to be some criteria the DM should evaluate in order to inform their decision?  If they were actually just saying "Hey, you can use the wild roll table or not", then wouldn't it have been easier to say that up front in the intro to the Wild Magic Source?  It's terribly unclear.

Am I worried about it? No. If I were DMing a player who had this class, I'd just say "you cast the spell, you roll the d20."

So if you care to participate in that conversation with something relevant, then cool. Maybe we can figure it out together.

If you'd rather continue being a vaporous twat with apparently poor reading comprehension, that's cool too. Sometimes I get in the mood to watch train wrecks on the internet, and that gives me one more bookmark.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 04, 2014, 12:35:35 AM
Quote from: Natty Bodak;775445You consistently respond to people as if they've said something they didn't, responding condescendingly and didactically, which is a shitty tone. And in doing so you never actually participate in the conversation people are having. This is why you're getting the "non sequitur" nicknames, and that is largely my problem with you. A smaller element of my problem with you is that I read a lot of thinly veiled system mastery/power gamer shibboleths in your posts about 5e, and I find that tedious.



I don't know if it's a reading comprehension or English-as-a-second-language kind of issue, but again there's no drama or angst here.

I am simply curious as to why they worded some class features (for our purposes here let's focus on Wild Magic Surge) the way they did. I'm not sure why they delegate it to the DM to make a decision about whether calling for a 1d20 roll to see if a roll on the table is needed.  Is there supposed to be some criteria the DM should evaluate in order to inform their decision?  If they were actually just saying "Hey, you can use the wild roll table or not", then wouldn't it have been easier to say that up front in the intro to the Wild Magic Source?  It's terribly unclear.

Am I worried about it? No. If I were DMing a player who had this class, I'd just say "you cast the spell, you roll the d20."

So if you care to participate in that conversation with something relevant, then cool. Maybe we can figure it out together.

If you'd rather continue being a vaporous twat with apparently poor reading comprehension, that's cool too. Sometimes I get in the mood to watch train wrecks on the internet, and that gives me one more bookmark.

So just ignore me then. Given I'm stupid and you're intelligent right? You should take your own advice then given it won't affect your view at all or mine in fact.

They worded the section in question for us stupid people not you so intelligent people. It's basically saying ignore it or use to your personal preference but I'm stupid right? If I wasn't a nice person I'd tell you and CR off for the asshats you're being. Except CR isn't an asshat he's just passionate but I'm not sure about you quite yet.

Given I'm not I suggest you carry on sir.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Marleycat on August 04, 2014, 12:58:46 AM
Quote from: Natty Bodak;775445You consistently respond to people as if they've said something they didn't, responding condescendingly and didactically, which is a shitty tone. And in doing so you never actually participate in the conversation people are having. This is why you're getting the "non sequitur" nicknames, and that is largely my problem with you. A smaller element of my problem with you is that I read a lot of thinly veiled system mastery/power gamer shibboleths in your posts about 5e, and I find that tedious.



I don't know if it's a reading comprehension or English-as-a-second-language kind of issue, but again there's no drama or angst here.

I am simply curious as to why they worded some class features (for our purposes here let's focus on Wild Magic Surge) the way they did. I'm not sure why they delegate it to the DM to make a decision about whether calling for a 1d20 roll to see if a roll on the table is needed.  Is there supposed to be some criteria the DM should evaluate in order to inform their decision?  If they were actually just saying "Hey, you can use the wild roll table or not", then wouldn't it have been easier to say that up front in the intro to the Wild Magic Source?  It's terribly unclear.

Am I worried about it? No. If I were DMing a player who had this class, I'd just say "you cast the spell, you roll the d20."

So if you care to participate in that conversation with something relevant, then cool. Maybe we can figure it out together.

If you'd rather continue being a vaporous twat with apparently poor reading comprehension, that's cool too. Sometimes I get in the mood to watch train wrecks on the internet, and that gives me one more bookmark.

So just ignore me then. Given I'm stupid and you're intelligent right?
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Will on August 04, 2014, 09:19:25 AM
Marleycat, he's not calling you stupid, and you're just doing what he's pointing out that you do.

How about trying engaging with what he's actually saying?

I like you, but he's right.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Bill on August 04, 2014, 09:43:11 AM
Quote from: Natty Bodak;775245It's weird that they are positioning this as a DM discretion thing. The DM *may* call for a roll which *may* trigger an effect. As a DM why do I want to have to evaluate this every time the magic 8 ball shakes himself? In lieu of some sort of guidance as to when/why the DM might or might not want to call for that roll just roll the d20 and get your special snowflake chaos jollies.

Everyone has there preferences, but I would much rather the rolls be at gm discretion than mandatory. I would want the gm to use their knowledge of the setting to determine when a wild magic roll is appropriate, or when it should be enhanced, etc...
I can't speak for others, but I don't see that as a burden.
In the vast majority of situations it won't even come up.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Will on August 04, 2014, 09:48:06 AM
The nice thing about a DM discretion thing is that it gives you the freedom to do it always, if you want. Sometimes, if you want. Never, under certain experiences, etc etc.

If the table is designed right (I have no idea), then it may not mechanically matter whether you roll or not, so you have a great freedom to make a choice that pleases you without worrying about unbalancing things.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Natty Bodak on August 04, 2014, 11:13:01 AM
Bill & Will,

I'm with you on GM discretion in general.  My brain is just having a hard time coming up with an example of what might influence me as a GM as to whether I'd call for the d20 roll, which is a decision I have to make every time the sorcerer casts a non-cantrip spell due to the Wild Magic Surge class feature (for which a 1 on the d20 will trigger a roll on the Wild Magic Surge table).  My brain just wants to say "it's a 1 in 20 chance, roll that every time."  That's a totally valid DM choice, but I'm looking for how someone else might have, or has, used a different basis for when to call for that d20 roll because I infer from the wording that the people who wrote that had something else in mind. I'd be thankful for any examples!

The Tides of Chaos feature is a little bit more clear to me. When the sorcerer gets the Tides benny, it's up to me to decide on which spell casting the consequences come home to roost. I can play it random, or I can storygame it and pick a moment of "drama" or whatever.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Will on August 04, 2014, 11:34:34 AM
Possible 'when to roll':
Damaged during casting
When casting your highest spell slots
In/around a Place of Power
In combat
Saturdays (dedicated to the god of chaos)
If someone cast a spell in the round before you (wild magic resonance!)
When carrying a chaos crystal
By choice
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Natty Bodak on August 04, 2014, 11:38:24 AM
Cool, thanks!

Quote from: Will;775601Possible 'when to roll':
Damaged during casting
When casting your highest spell slots
In/around a Place of Power
In combat
Saturdays (dedicated to the god of chaos)
If someone cast a spell in the round before you (wild magic resonance!)
When carrying a chaos crystal
By choice
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Will on August 04, 2014, 11:43:42 AM
Note that I'm assuming that the wild magic table roughly works out to neutrally balanced: on the grand scheme, you can roll it or not without affecting balance.

If that becomes clearly not the case, then it's a bad thing.

But I see no strong indication that it's noticeably imbalanced.

IMO, 'proper balance' would be slightly more positive results than negative, since the situational costs of negative results are usually 'worse' than equal positive results.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Natty Bodak on August 04, 2014, 11:48:24 AM
Quote from: Will;775604Note that I'm assuming that the wild magic table roughly works out to neutrally balanced: on the grand scheme, you can roll it or not without affecting balance.

If that becomes clearly not the case, then it's a bad thing.

But I see no strong indication that it's noticeably imbalanced.

IMO, 'proper balance' would be slightly more positive results than negative, since the situational costs of negative results are usually 'worse' than equal positive results.

Just to clarify, was your sample list for when to roll on the actual Wild Surge Table, or when to roll the d20 to check to see if you roll on the Wild Surge Table?

My crappy eyes have a tough time reading that screenshot, so I'm always a little concerned that I might not be reading it right.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Will on August 04, 2014, 01:31:07 PM
My list of suggestions were for 'when to roll the d20' and completely off the top of my head (or out the other end).

I confess I haven't read more than a few entries on the wild magic table, either, for similar reasons.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: Omega on August 05, 2014, 07:43:06 AM
I am sure we will see lots of home grown wild magic tables. And variant approaches to adding some uncertainty into it. Or to tone it down a little or ramp it up.

One I am considering is that you only call for a check when the wild mage  misses with a spell. Or is interrupted. Playing off the characters frustration or break in concentration.

What about cantrips? Do they trigger a check?
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: jadrax on August 05, 2014, 07:48:10 AM
Quote from: Omega;776025What about cantrips? Do they trigger a check?

No, level 1 spells and over only.
Title: 5e: Wild Magic Oh My!
Post by: RPGPundit on August 27, 2014, 04:33:28 AM
Quote from: Omega;776025I am sure we will see lots of home grown wild magic tables.

I sure hope so! Ideally, on this site!