TheRPGSite

I love 5E, but it's even more of an exception based rules system than before.
This isn't a complaint, but it does make it more prone to get the rules wrong/forget rules etc.

I thought it might be interesting to point out areas where people realised they misinterpreted or just plain missed how the rules worked.

For me some examples:

1: I kept on forgetting that Monk KI powers recharged after a SHORT or LONG rest, not just a LONG rest.

2: Due to my history with coming from ADnD, I was going with memorising spells for Wizards, although it clearly says you prep spells and use slots if you read it properly.

3: The Druids Wildshape 2 times a day is how many times you can change into a beast.
But changing back to a human (or whatever) does not use one of these slots.
I only realised that yesterday, so a bit embarrassing.

All of my misinterpretations have been due to influence from the playtest or 4e rules.  Things like,

- thinking the crit rules were max damage + 1 extra damage die.
- thinking standing up from prone cost full movement
- thinking death saves were a CON save

Really, though, it's just been getting a handle on common operations.  In that sense, the game has been quite simple to learn.

The big ones are "unthinking" the assumptions from older editions. I keep catching players & GMs slipping in 3e/PF-isms, but I know I too am guilty of slipping into assumptions. Playing it RAW (here & Organized Play) has been enlightening about my assumptions about the rules, and how they would play in practice.

Quote from: danskmacabre;7909872: Due to my history with coming from ADnD, I was going with memorising spells for Wizards, although it clearly says you prep spells and use slots if you read it properly.

3: The Druids Wildshape 2 times a day is how many times you can change into a beast.
But changing back to a human (or whatever) does not use one of these slots.
I only realised that yesterday, so a bit embarrassing.

2: You choose your prepared list and can then spend your slots on them as you wish.

3: 2 times a short rest. Not a day. :)

Quote from: Skywalker;7910363: 2 times a short rest. Not a day. :)

The whole ridiculously overpowered Circle of the Moon Druid thing feels like a particularly obnoxious throwback to 3.5e.

Quote from: S'mon;791046The whole ridiculously overpowered Circle of the Moon Druid thing feels like a particularly obnoxious throwback to 3.5e.

Its certainly powerful at level 2. After about level 6, it's not too great though.

2e - Blade Song fighting style. I thought it gave you one free parry to any incoming attack. Fucking cheated elves...

My friend and I were looking at Circle of the Moon Druid HP shenanigans and the CR cap is 6. Able to swap out a whole bunch of CR 6 creatures repeatedly at lvl 20 sounds "teh broken HP loop," but you're lvl 20, likely fighting lvl 20 things. Choosing poorly can get your creature one-shotted and then have remaining damage spill over. Considering the big creatures at lvl 20, there's a severe case of diminishing returns there.

A lvl 20 'supah shape changing druid!' should be formidable and awesome. But upon really looking at it, I don't find it 'teh brokken' yet. Just a meat shield tank, unless you play really smart — and when was the last time you saw truly devious smart play recently? (In the hands of an old school player I'd fear a sack of flour, some twine, and a lump of chalk.) Besides, seems you don't get CR creature's immunities and resistances, and there's nothing mentioned about status effects lingering (therefore they do, by RAW).

I see a lot of premature fear. In play the game is a lot more deadly.

Quote from: Skywalker;791049Its certainly powerful at level 2. After about level 6, it's not too great though.

It sounds as if the low level CR cap needs to be modified, but it might work as written at high level? To me it's not acceptable that the low level Druid is a much better and more durable fighter than the Fighter. Way too 3.5ish. And initially most play is going to be at low level. I want something that will work running eg Lost Mine of Phandelver level 1-5.

Usually we're looking at CR 1/4 or CR 1/2 at lower levels. And far more limited uses. Great for flexible switching between recon, mobility, tank, etc. but classes focused on those things will do it better. A Fighter will still wreck face on par levels, and at range (most Beast, a keyword, don't range natively, especially the smaller stuff).

Quote from: S'mon;791184It sounds as if the low level CR cap needs to be modified, but it might work as written at high level? To me it's not acceptable that the low level Druid is a much better and more durable fighter than the Fighter. Way too 3.5ish. And initially most play is going to be at low level. I want something that will work running eg Lost Mine of Phandelver level 1-5.

Durable? Sure, but not by much given Second Wind. Better? Not IMO. A CR1 Beast isn't as good as a level 2 Fighter.

I am fine with it as written as requiring all classes to advance equally over all levels does not produce good results. If you must, maybe try use the level divided by 3 rounded down at level 2, making it CR 1/2 with CR 1 at level 3.

Quote from: Opaopajr;791185Usually we're looking at CR 1/4 or CR 1/2 at lower levels.

No, you haven't noticed the Circle of the Moon pg 69 - CR 1 at 2nd level, CR = level/3 at level 6+. It's the CR 1 at 2nd-3rd level that is ridiculously OTT given their Combat Wild Shape ability etc etc also on pg 69. By 5th level it doesn't look so bad, and yes CR 6 at 18th level should be fine.

The Circle of the Land Druid on pg 68 doesn't look nearly as bad.

Quote from: Skywalker;791186Durable? Sure, but not by much given Second Wind. Better? Not IMO. A CR1 Beast isn't as good as a level 2 Fighter.

I am fine with it as written as requiring all classes to advance equally over all levels does not produce good results. If you must, maybe try use the level divided by 3 rounded down at level 2, making it CR 1/2 with CR 1 at level 3.

Still looks OTT to me. Right now I'm leaning to banning Circle of the Moon rather than try to nerf it sufficiently.

Edit: A minimal nerf that might work

Level  CR
2-4     .5
5-7      1
8-10    2
11-13  3
14-16  4
17-19  5
20       6

Dunno about getting it wrong, but one bit of the Warlock isn't too clear to me.

I'm presuming that the only way for the warlock to get 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spells is via his Mystic Arcanum? Even then, they get just 1 spell of each level as they qualify for them?

It also behooves the Warlock to choose spells that can be cast at higher levels, considering that they cast all their spells at a certain power level because of their spell slots.

Quote from: S'mon;791188No, you haven't noticed the Circle of the Moon pg 69 - CR 1 at 2nd level, CR = level/3 at level 6+. It's the CR 1 at 2nd-3rd level that is ridiculously OTT given their Combat Wild Shape ability etc etc also on pg 69. By 5th level it doesn't look so bad, and yes CR 6 at 18th level should be fine.

The Circle of the Land Druid on pg 68 doesn't look nearly as bad.

Yes I noticed that, but I'm talking about Wild Shape in general. Yes, it (CotM) caps at CR 6 and it's the early level stuff that's useful. But you are still limited to your uses before the short rest (lvl 20 is the "infinite HP!" that TBP has been yammering about) and being a melee Beast HP sink really is a weaker use compared to the intel gathering, IMHO. Combat in 5e bounces from "OK!" to "zOMG we're gonna die!" pretty fast. Unless you pick some great CR 1 HP bloaters or high AC, I'm not seeing Druids lay the whomp down in combat and overshadowing everyone.

Want some OTT? Human with Sharpshooter feat & a Longbow at lvl 1. Now that's gross, especially that 'No Disadv at 600' range'. Not the best for a dungeon, but absolute murder outside in the wilderness. Give me a tree or a mount and let's go picking off targets. (And even still I haven't seen 'teh brokken' in actual play yet. So far 5e is pretty robust in the face of chargen monkey shenanigans.)

Quote from: One Horse Town;791191Dunno about getting it wrong, but one bit of the Warlock isn't too clear to me.

I'm presuming that the only way for the warlock to get 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spells is via his Mystic Arcanum? Even then, they get just 1 spell of each level as they qualify for them?

It also behooves the Warlock to choose spells that can be cast at higher levels, considering that they cast all their spells at a certain power level because of their spell slots.

Not really given they use the 4e AEDU scheme their 1-5 spells refresh every encounter their Invocations are likely to be utility effects with cantrips and the four 6-9 spells being dailies so it's no more effective then any other class to purposely use lower level spells in the daily slots unless you're multiclassed which can lead to some interesting situations with some mix of Bard, Paladin or Sorcerer mixed in. And yes you get 1 each because there are no slots as such just an innate ability usable once a day.

Really what they are is your simple magic user TBP yammers on about.

Quote from: S'mon;791184It sounds as if the low level CR cap needs to be modified, but it might work as written at high level? To me it's not acceptable that the low level Druid is a much better and more durable fighter than the Fighter. Way too 3.5ish. And initially most play is going to be at low level. I want something that will work running eg Lost Mine of Phandelver level 1-5.

I think you're forgetting the biggest mitigating factor here: limited time/shapes.  I have no problem with a 2nd level moon druid being better than a 2nd level fighter for the limited amount of time he or she is in beast shape.

Depending on how many encounters the party may face before being able to rest, the moon druid may have spent his load on his wild shape and now is significantly underpowered than the fighter for the rest of the battles.  It's like wizards.  It's OK for them to do more damage than a fighter for a limited amount of times.  It's when you implement 5MWD where you have problems.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;791203I think you're forgetting the biggest mitigating factor here: limited time/shapes.  I have no problem with a 2nd level moon druid being better than a 2nd level fighter for the limited amount of time he or she is in beast shape.

Depending on how many encounters the party may face before being able to rest, the moon druid may have spent his load on his wild shape and now is significantly underpowered than the fighter for the rest of the battles.  It's like wizards.  It's OK for them to do more damage than a fighter for a limited amount of times.  It's when you implement 5MWD where you have problems.

Well, I rarely see more than a couple fights a day in any game. Certainly not more than a couple between 'short rests'.

Quote from: Marleycat;791200Not really given they use the 4e AEDU scheme their 1-5 spells refresh every encounter.

They dont referesh every encounter. They refresh after an uninterrupted short or long rest. No short rest = no recovery.

Things I got wrong initially as a DM.

Toughness feat: Doesnt double Hit Dice... ook...

Druid Wildshape: Limited to Beasts. So no Winter wolf. T-Rex is ok though... er...

Everyone except the Warlock recover slots only on a long rest. For some reason I thought all casters could recover 1/2 slots expended on a short rest.

Quote from: Omega;791256They dont referesh every encounter. They refresh after an uninterrupted short or long rest. No short rest = no recovery.

Things I got wrong initially as a DM.

Toughness feat: Doesnt double Hit Dice... ook...

Druid Wildshape: Limited to Beasts. So no Winter wolf. T-Rex is ok though... er...

Everyone except the Warlock recover slots only on a long rest. For some reason I thought all casters could recover 1/2 slots expended on a short rest.

Wrong term sorry basically they refresh every rest which can be as short as 5 minutes but usually is inferred to be 15 minutes (it's dependent on the table but honestly it works out as encounter based unless the DM is being an asshat about ready to be throat punched). The game itself is designed for 1-2 short rests and a long rest per 24 hours. Though that can be altered to emulate 1-2e or 4e in the appropriate direction of course.

Also short/long rests can be interrupted (up to 1 hour in the case of long rest per developer's RAI). And be totally effective you can rule differently but that is the baseline interpretation.

Quote from: Marleycat;791258Wrong term sorry basically they refresh every rest which can be as short as 5 minutes but usually is inferred to be 15 minutes (it's dependent on the table but honestly it works out as encounter based unless the DM is being an asshat about ready to be throat punched). The game itself is designed for 1-2 short rests and a long rest per 24 hours. Though that can be altered to emulate 1-2e or 4e in the appropriate direction of course.

Also short/long rests can be interrupted (up to 1 hour in the case of long rest per developer's RAI). And be totally effective you can rule differently but that is the baseline interpretation.

There's no need to infer anything. A short rest is explicitly defined as "a period of downtime, at least 1 hour long" in the basic rules and the PHB.  If you're going to house rule it, it can be as short as anything or as long as anything, but a DM going by the rules isn't exactly ass-hattery. And this is certainly different than 4e encounter power cycles.

Quote from: Omega;791256Druid Wildshape: Limited to Beasts. So no Winter wolf. T-Rex is ok though... er...

Yeah, one of the first things my friends and I did was beeline to the PHB creature appendix and look up Imp. Oh the devious plans we had! And then we paid attention to the word: Beast.

As GM & Player so far,

Distance as expressed by Slow, Normal, Fast in Minute, Hour, Day. Got caught with that in the very beginning combat with everyone rushing into the action from oh so far away. Also had to modify as those numbers are written for assumed Speed of 30'.

Not in play, but in GM explanation, I forgot about the "Nothing Stacks, Ever!" rule. I thought Skill Proficiency + Tool Proficiency could end up with both. And then I was corrected.

Learned about Backgrounds that if their proficiencies overlap with another source you get a "wild card" proficiency of your choice for that type (Skill or Tool). That was annoying. Making me far more cautious in Background design now; I'm going to favor Tools if I can.

Knock Out Blow has to be from melee.

Two-Weapon, both weapons must be Light.

etc. I'm sure more will be in the future.

The fun ones are catching 3e-isms: nope, no flanking, no multiple AoO - one Reaction from everyone unless exceptional design, no Full Attack with umpteen modifiers, no Reach weapons penalty/useless when inside their range (yay, pikes & whips! lances get special rules), no your spell Concentration doesn't work that way, etc.

Quote from: Omega;791256Druid Wildshape: Limited to Beasts. So no Winter wolf. T-Rex is ok though... er...

And Beasts that the Druid has seen. I imagine a many D&D settings have no dinosaurs, so that option is unlikely to be available to Moon Circle Druids.

Quote from: Skywalker;791275And Beasts that the Druid has seen. I imagine a many D&D settings have no dinosaurs, so that option is unlikely to be available to Moon Circle Druids.

yeebus! Missed that part. That puts the breaks on instant T-Rex, just add Druid. yay!

Quote from: Omega;791276yeebus! Missed that part. That puts the breaks on instant T-Rex, just add Druid. yay!

IIRC a T-Rex is greater than CR6, so would always be beyond a Moon Circle Druid. But yeah, I doubt many Dinodruids will be seen.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;791261There's no need to infer anything. A short rest is explicitly defined as "a period of downtime, at least 1 hour long" in the basic rules and the PHB.  If you're going to house rule it, it can be as short as anything or as long as anything, but a DM going by the rules isn't exactly ass-hattery. And this is certainly different than 4e encounter power cycles.

Treating 5e 1 hour rests as 4e 5 minute rests certainly seems like 'getting it wrong', yup. :D The intent seems to be 1-2 short rests per adventuring day, not per encounter.

Quote from: Skywalker;791277IIRC a T-Rex is greater than CR6, so would always be beyond a Moon Circle Druid. But yeah, I doubt many Dinodruids will be seen.

Yeah, Noted the CR8 just now. Can still do a Triceratops... CR5... Mammoth at CR6.

I am surprised the Worg is a monstrocity, it used to be a Dire Wolf which is in the same category as a sabertooth...

Quote from: Skywalker;791275And Beasts that the Druid has seen. I imagine a many D&D settings have no dinosaurs, so that option is unlikely to be available to Moon Circle Druids.

Yup, and gotta live from the encounter to do it, too. Makes being a small recon creature that much more useful. It's definitely not the "I Win!" button you hear people preaching.

Ooh, here's a fun catch as I was doing char-gen: Darts are not Light weapons, and no Light weapon so far has greater than a 1d6 damage die.

The Dart is 1/4 lb. & 1d4 dmg, the Rapier 2 lbs & 1d8 dmg, and the Scimitar 3 lbs & 1d6 dmg. Only the Scimitar is Light. Nice, they were looking out against my inner munchkin.
:)

Still, Darts are cheap and 20 count is well worth the 1 GP for almost anyone with decent STR or DEX.

The rules goof we ran into was the effect of damage to unconscious PCs. During an ill-advised war on two fronts in the Cragmaw caves that dropped half the party, and the subsequent flash flood assisted retreat, we kept wanting to track cumulative negative damage toward the instant-death limit, and not just having damage below that limit translate to a failed save. We caught ourselves, but the habit was hard to kick.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;791261There's no need to infer anything. A short rest is explicitly defined as "a period of downtime, at least 1 hour long" in the basic rules and the PHB.  If you're going to house rule it, it can be as short as anything or as long as anything, but a DM going by the rules isn't exactly ass-hattery. And this is certainly different than 4e encounter power cycles.

Quit being pendantic basically it is an encounter based ability because some games will go with 1 hour others will go with something shorter or longer and they already do so. All I'm saying is that if you want a 4e feel short rests would be 5 minutes or if you go with how our 1/2e games went it was 30 minutes. Other games that I've participated in it was 15 minutes or an hour. Dnd isn't about RAW it's about you and your game and the rules reflect that because they have multiple viable interpretations and implementations.

Also the developers have said the game was built under the assumption of having 1-2 short rests and 1 long rest in a adventuring day which basically works out to 3-4 encounters with something per day normally. Circumstances can dictate differently obviously.  Of course it's not exact because the game has the flexibility to emulate 1-4e so it requires the ability to alter short rests without affecting everything else too much. They expect you to alter it and because of that expectation specifically limited the Wizard's Arcane Recovery to one short rest a day unlike other short rest abilities because the Wizard is intended to be a daily class and being able to recover spell slots multiple times a day makes them way too powerful while stepping all over the sorcerer and warlock's deal when you alter the length of short rests for whatever feel you're trying to achieve.

Quote from: Opaopajr;791284Yup, and gotta live from the encounter to do it, too. Makes being a small recon creature that much more useful. It's definitely not the "I Win!" button you hear people preaching.

Ooh, here's a fun catch as I was doing char-gen: Darts are not Light weapons, and no Light weapon so far has greater than a 1d6 damage die.

The Dart is 1/4 lb. & 1d4 dmg, the Rapier 2 lbs & 1d8 dmg, and the Scimitar 3 lbs & 1d6 dmg. Only the Scimitar is Light. Nice, they were looking out against my inner munchkin.
:)

Still, Darts are cheap and 20 count is well worth the 1 GP for almost anyone with decent STR or DEX.

You mean to say they remember 2e and dart specialists.:)

Quote from: Marleycat;791293Quit being pendantic ...

If ever there were a place to be pedantic it's a thread about getting the rules wrong.

If ever there were a place to NOT make claims based on unannounced house rules (which is any place, really) it's a thread about getting the rules wrong.

Not that citing one line of what has to be one of the simplest and clearest rules in the game rises to the level of pedantry.

To reiterate, in case anyone has been confused by your counter-factual claptrap, 5e Warlock spell slots refresh every short rest (a period of at least one hour), and NOT every "encounter" as defined in 4e terms.

Here's one I only recently caught. And after we've been playing, GM & players, as if we can shoot through allies. I forget if this was a 3e or 4e thing. I guess we've been playing with old assumptions that we can shoot through allies too long...

COVER
A target with half cover has +2 bonus to AC and DEX saving throws. A target has half cover if an obstacle blocks at least half its body. The obstacle might be a low wall, a large piece of furniture, a narrow tree trunk, or a creature, whether that creature is an enemy or a friend.
(5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 74)

Well, that's a lot more +2 AC floating around. Makes formations more useful & slows down the ranged Sneak Attack/Pack Tactics dog pile (place ally w/in 5' of target, stopping advance, then focus fire through the meat shield). Also a great use for Grapple, as it was so far pretty lackluster.

Quote from: Skywalker;7910363: 2 times a short rest. Not a day. :)

Thanks, Yes, that was more a typo on my end.
I checked the character when I got home and it was noted correctly.

For those with concerns about Moon druids being Over powered.
I've been running a campaign so far up to level 4 with a Moon druid in the party and I have not experienced this.
The wildshape is limited to 2 times per short rest and when you're in a big adventure, such as a decent sized dungeon, that's not often achievable to just stop and rest for an hour.
Also in beast shape you have no spells available to use, which is a real limitation on the Druid.
That and in beast Shape it can't communicate properly to other party members. It's a a beast right, so can't talk. although can use hand signals  etc.

If anything the Monk is really powerful with multiple attacks available and a decent AC as well. also the knock-down KI powers and stuff.
He can't take as much a a pounding as a fighter with the fighter superior HPs and 2nd wind.
It'll be interesting to see how the Monk develops at higher levels in actual play.

Quote from: danskmacabre;791568For those with concerns about Moon druids being Over powered.
I've been running a campaign so far up to level 4 with a Moon druid in the party and I have not experienced this.

My experiences are the same, though when has such things as actual play experience ever stopped people making sweeping house rules based on a perceived imbalance? :)

Quote from: Skywalker;791570My experiences are the same, though when has such things as actual play experience ever stopped people making sweeping house rules based on a perceived imbalance? :)

Lol, yes. I would have thought actual game experience with running/playing a Moon Druid should be pretty important before deciding to make sweeping changes.

One other thing I noticed is the Druid spells are pretty decent.
So there's lots of reason to NOT use Wildshape,
for example I noticed quite a lot of use of the "Flame blade" spell by the Druid, which does 3d6 damage, which is pretty decent, although it's a 2nd level spell, so usage of it uses up a valuable 2nd level spell slot.
But it does make the Druid very versatile when needed to fight a boss enemy or something.

The fighter still outclasses the Druid in pure combat, as it'll have a much better AC than a Druid in Wildshape, comparable or better HPs and whilst the Wildshaped Druid might end up with multiple attacks (such as in Bear form), the Fighter has other abilities to fall back on as well, which put together are very nice.

It should be noted that at the worst parts of a few quite dangerous combats I've run so far, the fighter has always so far been the one who was the best off (meaning HPs and rate of being hit) when things were worst.

Quote from: Opaopajr;791494Here's one I only recently caught. And after we've been playing, GM & players, as if we can shoot through allies. I forget if this was a 3e or 4e thing. I guess we've been playing with old assumptions that we can shoot through allies too long...

COVER
A target with half cover has +2 bonus to AC and DEX saving throws. A target has half cover if an obstacle blocks at least half its body. The obstacle might be a low wall, a large piece of furniture, a narrow tree trunk, or a creature, whether that creature is an enemy or a friend.
(5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 74)

Well, that's a lot more +2 AC floating around. Makes formations more useful & slows down the ranged Sneak Attack/Pack Tactics dog pile (place ally w/in 5' of target, stopping advance, then focus fire through the meat shield). Also a great use for Grapple, as it was so far pretty lackluster.

Thanks for pointing this out. I wasn't sure about how to handle that last night when running a big fight in the Moathouse as part of the "Temple of elemental Evil" scenario.
I just said you shoot at disadvantage.

I know that when shooting (or using any ranged type attack) into a melee (but not actually blocked) you shoot at disadvantage.
But good to know if someone is in the way, but not in melee with your target, there's a mechanic for that, being a +2 to the target AC.

Quote from: danskmacabre;791616I know that when shooting (or using any ranged type attack) into a melee (but not actually blocked) you shoot at disadvantage.
But good to know if someone is in the way, but not in melee with your target, there's a mechanic for that, being a +2 to the target AC.

That's not correct.

If you shoot with a ranged weapon with a hostile opponent within 5ft of you, you shoot at disadvantage.

There is no penalty for shooting into melee other than the +2 AC that the target is likely to have.

Quote from: Skywalker;791619That's not correct.

If you shoot with a ranged weapon with a hostile opponent within 5ft of you, you shoot at disadvantage.

There is no penalty for shooting into melee other than the +2 AC that the target is likely to have.

Really?  wow, Not sure how I misread that thanks :)

No problem. Its what this thread is about after all :)

This isn't mine, but i saw someone recommend to another poster elsewhere that if they want to be an awesome archer they should take dual wield hand crossbows and crossbow expert.

All i can honestly say to that is good luck in re-loading those x-bows when you've got 1 in each hand. I don't know too many 3 handed characters. Telekinesis, i guess.

Quote from: One Horse Town;791645This isn't mine, but i saw someone recommend to another poster elsewhere that if they want to be an awesome archer they should take dual wield hand crossbows and crossbow expert.

All i can honestly say to that is good luck in re-loading those x-bows when you've got 1 in each hand. I don't know too many 3 handed characters. Telekinesis, i guess.

It doesn't read at all like a sound of good piece of advice ! ^_^ Sometimes, people are trying too hard to optimize their PCs ... Maybe they should just play the game ...

Quote from: One Horse Town;791645This isn't mine, but i saw someone recommend to another poster elsewhere that if they want to be an awesome archer they should take dual wield hand crossbows and crossbow expert.

All i can honestly say to that is good luck in re-loading those x-bows when you've got 1 in each hand. I don't know too many 3 handed characters. Telekinesis, i guess.

Mage Hand.

Its like trying to dual wield Nerf Blasters. You get off 2 shots sure. but then you have to fumble around  arming one then the other which means propping one on or under the arm to free the hand up. Though I could see a pulltab assembly like the new Rebelle lines "Pink Crush" which is shaped like a hand crossbow (or the old Nightfinder). You can arm those with a thumb by essentially crossing the arms. Loading a dart can still be done while holding the other gun. Awkward. But do-able and the same sorts of requirements to arm a pair of hand crossbows.

I recently learned that Warlock patron spells add to your spell list, not your spells known. You can pick them, but you don't automatically  know them.

Big difference!

Hmm, I got something else wrong. That's what comes of skimming the rules in eagerness to run a game.

There's a character that's a Halfling Sorceror with Wild Magic path in my campaign.

Halflings reroll 1's on attacks, saves, Ability checks

However the Wild magic has the following ruling:

QuoteWild Magic Surge
Starting when you choose this origin at 1st level, your
spellcasting can unleash surges of untamed magic.
Immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level
or higher, the DM can have you roll a d20. If you roll a
1, roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to create a random
magical effect.

I read this wrongly, assuming whenever the Sorceror rolls a 1 with a spell, or attack or skill (which it clearly does NOT say that).
However the Halfling rerolls 1s, so it never happened with the wild magic.

Of course, reading this properly it's a special roll that's made after casting any spell.

The Halfling lucky ability:

QuoteLucky.
When you roll a 1 on an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll.

Fortunately, as this ability is specific to Attack rolls and, ability checks and Saves, this special d20 wild magic roll after casting a spell (1st level and above) is exempt from the Halfling reroll ability.

Quote from: dbm;791909I recently learned that Warlock patron spells add to your spell list, not your spells known. You can pick them, but you don't automatically  know them.

Big difference!

Ah that's interesting, that came up in a discussion yesterday at home with my kids who were looking at the Warlock.

Since we are in a thread about wrong interpretation of the D&D 5 rules, do I correctly understand how the human ability bonus works by adding + 1 to the 6 abilties ?

Quote from: yabaziou;791960Since we are in a thread about wrong interpretation of the D&D 5 rules, do I correctly understand how the human ability bonus works by adding + 1 to the 6 abilties ?

Yep, although if you're using Feats, then humans can opt to increase 2 stats by 1 and take a Feat.

Quote from: One Horse Town;791962Yep, although if you're using Feats, then humans can opt to increase 2 stats by 1 and take a Feat.

Thanks, OHT, your answer is greatly appreciated ! I was beginning to make confusion between D&D 5 and 13th Age character generation rules. And your extra precision about trading ability augmentation for a feat is something I didn't notice in the rules ... I guess you never lose your time when you are asking questions about something you are not sure !

Quote from: dbm;791909I recently learned that Warlock patron spells add to your spell list, not your spells known. You can pick them, but you don't automatically  know them.

Big difference!

I've been trying to suss out the consequences of this quirk.  As far as I can tell there's no real downside to not "knowing" the spell.  You can cast it, and so know it in that sense. I was thinking that the reason the spell isn't "known" is that this conveniently excludes it from being cast with a spell slot.  Is there some other rules interaction that affects warlocks differently because of this?

Quote from: Natty Bodak;791974I've been trying to suss out the consequences of this quirk.  As far as I can tell there's no real downside to not "knowing" the spell.  You can cast it, and so know it in that sense. I was thinking that the reason the spell isn't "known" is that this conveniently excludes it from being cast with a spell slot.  Is there some other rules interaction that affects warlocks differently because of this?

I don't have my books with me, but my understanding is that you can only cast spells you know so there is a downside. If you have a diabolical patron you can choose to know Fireball, but that occupies one of your "spells known" and so there is the opportunity cost of not knowing a different spell on your expanded list.

If you don't choose Fireball as one of your "known spells" you can't cast it. But you could cast a spell from a scroll of Fireball more easily as it is on your class list of spells.

That is my understanding, anyway.

Quote from: dbm;792022I don't have my books with me, but my understanding is that you can only cast spells you know so there is a downside. If you have a diabolical patron you can choose to know Fireball, but that occupies one of your "spells known" and so there is the opportunity cost of not knowing a different spell on your expanded list.

If you don't choose Fireball as one of your "known spells" you can't cast it. But you could cast a spell from a scroll of Fireball more easily as it is on your class list of spells.

That is my understanding, anyway.

Oh, hmm.  That's not how I read it.  Here's how I thought it went.

Warlocks can cast spells they know (which I interpret to be a technical term to indicate a spell is on the spells known list, not a term about knowledge in general) using spell slots  mostly as other casters do. The difference being that Warlock spell slots refresh after a short rest instead of a long rest.

Spells gained through the Mystic Arcanum feature can be cast once per long rest (without burning a slot), and the reason they aren't consider known is that prevents them from being cast using spell slots, which means they can't be cast more frequently than Mystic Arcanum states, and they can't be cast at higher level by burning a higher slot.  

The spells you get via Mystic Arcanum are 6th level and higher, and if I read the Warlock progression table for spell slot level correctly, they never get spell slots at a level higher than 5th, so generally speaking I would expect these two casting features to overlap. I haven't really looked to see if there are any odd cases here, like what might happen if you took a spell through Mystic Arcanum that you a later, learned via other features or situations.

That was my take, anyway.  I haven't played with a 5e warlock at the table yet, so this is as close of a look as I've taken so far.

Edit: Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about the expanded spell list for warlocks at first (e.g. fireball being available to Fiend pact warlocks). In those cases I'm pretty sure the spells are treated like ones you would normally be able to learn. The spell list you choose from is simply expanded. All of which I think you said. There's just the opportunity cost of choosing fireball over some other spell to know.  Contrasted to the domain spells for clerics which are a zero cost addition. My brain was all focused on the Mystic Arcanum thing.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;791306If ever there were a place to be pedantic it's a thread about getting the rules wrong.

If ever there were a place to NOT make claims based on unannounced house rules (which is any place, really) it's a thread about getting the rules wrong.

Not that citing one line of what has to be one of the simplest and clearest rules in the game rises to the level of pedantry.

To reiterate, in case anyone has been confused by your counter-factual claptrap, 5e Warlock spell slots refresh every short rest (a period of at least one hour), and NOT every "encounter" as defined in 4e terms.

Again that is what is RAW but that is not the only option that will be used. In my experience very few games are actually RAW and depending on circumstances you can in fact get 1-2 short rests (defined as 1 hour) in a 24 hour period. Other times you may not get ANY rests other then a long rest in a 24 hour day. It's all about the circumstances and the style of game that is being run at an individual table.

And just because it's not RAW doesn't mean it's not DnD. Some games have short rests defined as even longer then 1 hour and long rests defined as whole days with stipulations. Other tables define short rests at 5/15/30 minutes Why? Because that is the type of campaign that DM and players want at their table.

Like any good edition of DnD 5e's rules are really flexible without messing up the whole game engine. They put a lot of thought into the fact that DnD has multiple iterations/interpretations and preferences.

QuoteWarlocks can cast spells they know (which I interpret to be a technical term to indicate a spell is on the spells known list, not a term about knowledge in general) using spell slots mostly as other casters do. The difference being that Warlock spell slots refresh after a short rest instead of a long rest.

I know that they do have to pick a set number of spells they know at specified levels but without the book I am not sure if the Patron spells are outside that number or not. And I forget if they can do the same as Bards, Paladins, etc and swap out any spell same level or lower for another like spell every level. I would assume they could but without the book I wouldn't guarantee that.

Quote from: Marleycat;792031Again that is what is RAW but that is not the only option that will be used. In my experience very few games are actually RAW and depending on circumstances you can in fact get 1-2 short rests (defined as 1 hour) in a 24 hour period. Other times you may not get ANY rests other then a long rest in a 24 hour day. It's all about the circumstances and the style of game that is being run at an individual table.

And just because it's not RAW doesn't mean it's not DnD. Some games have short rests defined as even longer then 1 hour and long rests defined as whole days with stipulations. Other tables define short rests at 5/15/30 minutes Why? Because that is the type of campaign that DM and players want at their table.

Like any good edition of DnD 5e's rules are really flexible without messing up the whole game engine. They put a lot of thought into the fact that DnD has multiple iterations/interpretations and preferences.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but the thread topic wasn't about what house rules somebody got wrong or misunderstood (pretty hard to do with house rules since they are crafted in-house). It's about the Rules as Delivered.

Quote from: Marleycat;792033I know that they do have to pick a set number of spells they know at specified levels but without the book I am not sure if the Patron spells are outside that number or not. And I forget if they can do the same as Bards, Paladins, etc and swap out any spell same level or lower for another like spell every level. I would assume they could but without the book I wouldn't guarantee that.

You're right; they can change out every level, and the patron spells simply expand the list they can choose from when they level.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;792034I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but the thread topic wasn't about what house rules somebody got wrong or misunderstood (pretty hard to do with house rules since they are crafted in-house). It's about the Rules as Delivered.

As for RAW you are correct it's just like I've said upthread I've never seen a longterm game ever be anything close to RAW. Usually you run it RAW to understand the system then change things suit you and your players preferences.

The only reason I even chimed in is because the DMG is coming and like FantasyCraft will be filled with developer approved houserules making the very concept of RAW where 5e is concerned a nebulous concept at best.

Quote from: Marleycat;792055The only reason I even chimed in is because the DMG is coming and like FantasyCraft will be filled with developer approved houserules making the very concept of RAW where 5e is concerned a nebulous concept at best.

I just had to say I found this line completely erotic.

You sure do keep pushing that "5 minute short rest" thing.  Funny how 5 minute short rests are just natural house rules and totally cool, yet removing at-will damage spells is a horrific conservative Taliban attempt at making it 1975 again.  It's almost like there is zero logical consistency to your statements and you're simply for anything giving more power to mages and against anything curtailing that power.  Which is fine , since however your group plays is good.for.them, it's the weird attempts at validation seeking which are odd. ;)

It does seem that the only consistent element in both of MarleyCat's series of posts is the attempt to derail the discussion :)

Quote from: danskmacabre;791926Fortunately, as this ability is specific to Attack rolls and, ability checks and Saves, this special d20 wild magic roll after casting a spell (1st level and above) is exempt from the Halfling reroll ability.

Correct. You cast the spell or power and THEN the DM can have you make a wild magic roll. Thusly Halflings are not virtually immune to it.

On a related note. I goofed and thought the Sorcerer had to also check on cantrips.

From my perspective, I'm not that interested in houserules and their benefits vs RAW.
I created this thread purely to get clarity on RAW.

ass

Quote from: CRKrueger;792066You sure do keep pushing that "5 minute short rest" thing.  Funny how 5 minute short rests are just natural house rules and totally cool, yet removing at-will damage spells is a horrific conservative Taliban attempt at making it 1975 again.  It's almost like there is zero logical consistency to your statements and you're simply for anything giving more power to mages and against anything curtailing that power.  Which is fine , since however your group plays is good.for.them, it's the weird attempts at validation seeking which are odd. ;)

No I don't push that you old fuck it's just a known option that will be in the DMG leaked MONTHS ago by Mearls. Heck if you actually give a fuck about what is fact just get on TWITTER and ask him yourself. And while you're at it stop your passive aggressive bullshit against me and others. It's old and boring.

Play the game however you like but full stop with denigrating mine or other accepted mainstream styles ok. I don't like or play 4e and think 5 minute short rests are bullshit but they are in fact a real rule in many 5e games so either deal with it or don't play at those tables.

It seems you forgot DnD isn't even a game I favor. I prefer, play and run Onyx Path games Mage the Awakening, Hunter the Vigil and Changeling the Lost in particular followed by several lesser known horror games and OTHER genres like 40k among many others before DnD. And tend to use other games like FantasyCraft or GURPS for DnD style games. Though because 5e is turning out pretty much as I expected it's starting to get a spot in that DnD rotation of games in my group that are meant for that type of game.

Not sure if I got this right last night, but I ruled it as ok to keep the flow of the game going.

Monk is 4th level, and has taken the way of open hand.

He hits a bugbear with a quarterstaff, uses flurry of blows to get to more MA attacks (using a Ki point). He finishes it off actually, as it was already injured.

He then used the missile deflection ability (as part of the open hand way) as a REACTION to block a spear thrown at him by a Gnoll.
He then spent a KI point to throw it back at the Gnoll (, he reduced the damage to zero, so he CAN throw it back as part of the deflection ability and it still counts as a reaction to throw it back). The Gnoll  is already injured and the return spearcast kills the Gnoll as well.

All very impressive.  :)

I'm not sure if the reaction was allowed as the bonus action was already used for Flurry of blows.

My feeling is a reaction is not the same as a bonus action, so this is legit.

Opinions?

Quote from: danskmacabre;792280Not sure if I got this right last night, but I ruled it as ok to keep the flow of the game going.

Monk is 4th level, and has taken the way of open hand.

He hits a bugbear with a quarterstaff, uses flurry of hands to get to more MA attacks (using a Ki point). He finishes it off actually, as it was already injured.

He then used the missile deflection ability (as part of the open hand way) as a REACTION to block a spear thrown at him by a Gnoll.
He then spent a KI point to throw it back at the Gnoll (, he reduced the damage to zero, so he CAN throw it back as part of the deflection ability and it still counts as a reaction to throw it back). The Gnoll  is already injured and the return spearcast kills the Gnoll as well.

All very impressive.  :)

I'm not sure if the reaction was allowed as the bonus action was already used for Flurry of blows.

My feeling is a reaction is not the same as a bonus action, so this is legit.

Opinions?

Bonus Actions are separate from Reactions, so that seems legit (*and* impressive) to me.

Quote from: danskmacabre;792280All very impressive.  :)

I'm not sure if the reaction was allowed as the bonus action was already used for Flurry of blows.

My feeling is a reaction is not the same as a bonus action, so this is legit.

Opinions?

Reading through looks like it played out right. Bonus actions are seperate from Reactions. Note that you only get one each per characters turn.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;792285Bonus Actions are separate from Reactions, so that seems legit (*and* impressive) to me.

Thanks, I thought so.
Yeah, it was one of those "Stop and clap" moments in the gaming session.
It looked very "Bruce Lee".  :D

Quote from: Omega;792287Reading through looks like it played out right. Bonus actions are seperate from Reactions. Note that you only get one each per characters turn.

Cool, I thought it was one Bonus action and one reaction, but good to get it verified.

Yeah, at first I though you got however number of reactions as as might possibly trigger.

PHB
Bonus Actions pg 189: You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.

Reactions pg 190: When you take a reaction you cannot take another one until the start of your next turn.

Quote from: Omega;792297Yeah, at first I though you got however number of reactions as as might possibly trigger.

PHB
Bonus Actions pg 189: You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.

Reactions pg 190: When you take a reaction you cannot take another one until the start of your next turn.

And just to further clarify, bonus actions are used on one's turn, while reactions are used on someone else's.  Bonus actions can't be used on one's reaction.

Quote from: Iosue;792301And just to further clarify, bonus actions are used on one's turn, while reactions are used on someone else's.  Bonus actions can't be used on one's reaction.

Thanks, yes, the Spear throw came on the Gnoll's turn when he actually threw the spear, but it was on the same round when the Monk used the deflection reaction ability.

Quote from: Omega;792297Yeah, at first I though you got however number of reactions as as might possibly trigger.

PHB
Bonus Actions pg 189: You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.

Reactions pg 190: When you take a reaction you cannot take another one until the start of your next turn.

Ah another thing, the reaction to catch missile weapon, a spear in this case, costs no KI points.
The reaction to throw the spear back costs a KI point, BUT it counts as still only being one reaction, meaning the catch and throw is part of the one reaction, as stated in the Monk Deflection ability.


So it was right.

Another oversight.

Inspiration:
This was just an assumption on my part, due to other RPGs having a similar mechanic.
Once I actually read the rules, it was very clear.

You either have inspiration or not. you can't collect Inspiration points, meaning have more than one point of inspiration.
I was running it so you could collect up Inspiration points and spend them.
some other RPGs have this mechanic.

RAW is you gain Inspiration and that's it, then you lose it by using it in various ways and you can regain it again later.

Opportunity Attack is Melee Attack Only:
- A Ranged Weapon used in 5' range attack is still a Ranged Attack.
- Grapple and Shove are Special Melee Attacks, and therefore usable AoO.

Archery Fighting Style is with Ranged Weapons Only. So melee weapons used for a ranged attack do not benefit with +2 atk.

Armor Proficiency is Needed to avoid Penalties. Anyone can wear armor, but if not proficient you get Disadv on ability checks, saving throws, atk that use STR or DEX, and can't cast spells.

Heavy Armor STR requirement merely determines whether you lose another 10' of movement. It's not permission, it's move penalty.

Weapon Proficiency is not permission, merely whether you get Prof. Bonus.

Ammo:
- Drawing ammo and firing is all part of the attack — it does not take up your "interact with one thing in the environment for free, per turn."
- You may use the ranged weapon for a ranged attack at 5' at Disadv.
- Or, you may use the ranged weapon itself as an improvised melee weapon (no PB, 1d4 dmg), a sling must be loaded to do any damage.

May throw any melee weapon, even those without Thrown property. They merely become Improvise Weapon (no PB, 1d4 dmg).

Net is a ranged weapon, therefore ranged attack, even though it's normal range is only 5'.

Hide needs a DEX (Stealth) roll each time, so that it can be contested from Perception.

Unconscious gives Adv to attackers, and attacks within 5' are Critical Hits. This matters for Death Saves. Yes, you can wipe a player out in one round, especially with two light weapons, or sheer negative Max HP from heavy weapons. Almost like a coup de grace.

Quote from: Opaopajr;792979Net is a ranged weapon, therefore ranged attack, even though it's normal range is only 5'.

The Net is a bit weird tbh, as its range is 5'/15', you will have Disadvantage on your attacks due to being within 5', or Disadvantage on your attacks due to being at Long Range.

Not sure they thought that through.

Quote from: jadrax;792991The Net is a bit weird tbh, as its range is 5'/15', you will have Disadvantage on your attacks due to being within 5', or Disadvantage on your attacks due to being at Long Range.

Not sure they thought that through.

Yeah, it's all sorts of weird. They also give it essentially Loading, but it still states "When you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to attack with a net..." Which then leaves you confused on how to do a melee attack Opportunity Attack with a Ranged Weapon without it being merely an Improvised Weapon, when you really want the special Restrain status.

I'm assuming there's an override in there somewhere. That's for WotC forum to clear up.

edit: Oh, I get it! Disadv on ranged attacks within 5' is for hostile creatures who can see you and are not incapacitated. If you are hidden, or surprising someone who thinks you're an ally, or both, you don't get disadvantage. Hmm, oblique yet clever wording.

Oh my, I think I just found a way to make Color Spray useful again... (Color Spray has a duration of 1 Round now, which is not so good as before.) However, Color Spray & coordinated party with Nets is very interesting! Blind the targets, Net them with Adv., now have Restrained opponents. Restrained is Spd 0, Disadv. on DEX saves, Disadv to hit and Adv to be hit by others. Great way to hijack people.

Quote from: Opaopajr;792979May throw any melee weapon, even those without Thrown property. They merely become Improvise Weapon (no PB, 1d4 dmg).

Unconscious gives Adv to attackers, and attacks within 5' are Critical Hits. This matters for Death Saves. Yes, you can wipe a player out in one round, especially with two light weapons, or sheer negative Max HP from heavy weapons. Almost like a coup de grace.

1: Not seeing this one. The thrown property says that  these weapons with this property may be thrown. Nothing about those without it being throwable. Improvise also says nothing about allowing thrown items.

But.

As DM I can certainly see instances where trying would be allowable. And improvising allowance is up to the DM here.

2: Totally. If the groups paladin had not diverted her attention, Mondath would have annihilated the groups downed Sorcerer.

It's pretty well buried in the Equipment section:

Weapons > Weapon Properties > Improvised Weapons

An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the DM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet.

(5e Basic .pdf, Aug 2014. p. 47, col. 1, 3rd paragraph in section.)

:)

And yeah, Lay on Hands is huge about bouncing characters back into battle. You only need one HP to adventure! :p

ah-hah! Was on the next page. 148 of the PHB.

As for the paladin. It was more that he dived in and shielded the downed sorcerer. Which got Mondaths attention on dealing with him rather than finishing off the sorcerer. Paladin didnt get a chance to lay on hands till next round and he had to use up what he had left to get the sorcerer just up to 1 HP. And the sorcerer didnt get to act till hed made a CON check to be able to do anything. Which wasnt till around round four.

Quote from: Omega;793193he had to use up what he had left to get the sorcerer just up to 1 HP.

Isn't just one hp going to do that? or is that all the Paladin had left?

Quote from: Omega;793193And the sorcerer didnt get to act till hed made a CON check to be able to do anything. Which wasnt till around round four.

Can you point to that in the rules?

Quote from: CRKrueger;793233Isn't just one hp going to do that? or is that all the Paladin had left?

Can you point to that in the rules?

1: The sorcerer was well into the negative HP so took a little more just to get him in the clear.

2: Was my own call. The sorcerer had gone from full HP to negative in one round. I and the group did not feel it was right that hed be up and fully functional to cast spells right after so I called for a CON check to clear his head.

They werent very keen on the short rest HD recovery either. But were ok with that once realized it was pretty limited. Essentially treating it like a batch of renewable but very limited minor healing potions. Or catching your breath as it were.

Quote from: Omega;7932341: The sorcerer was well into the negative HP so took a little more just to get him in the clear.

2: Was my own call. The sorcerer had gone from full HP to negative in one round. I and the group did not feel it was right that hed be up and fully functional to cast spells right after so I called for a CON check to clear his head.

They werent very keen on the short rest HD recovery either. But were ok with that once realized it was pretty limited. Essentially treating it like a batch of renewable but very limited minor healing potions. Or catching your breath as it were.

There is no such thing as negative Hit Points in 5e.

Yeah I didn't think there was negative HPs, just compare the amount past zero against max HPs to determine if it's an instakill.

Check me on this...

• I have 60hps.
• Get hit for 119 HPs, so 59 past zero, still alive and at 0 HPs.
• I make my first save, and get hit for 59 HPs again, still alive and at 0 with Death Tally 1-1.
• I make my second save, and get hit for 59 HPs again, still alive and at 0 with Death Tally at 2-2.
• I make my third save and stabilize.
• Now I roll 1d4, and get a one, so I wake up with 1hp in one hour.
• I do a long rest for 8 hours and I'm at perfect health again, like nothing happened.

So a char with 60 HPs gets hit for 237 HPs with no magical healing and is fine after a good night's sleep.

Quote from: CRKrueger;793241So a char with 60 HPs gets hit for 237 HPs with no magical healing and is fine after a good night's sleep.

On the plus side, the player would have been shitting themselves about how close to death their PC was at the time.

Quote from: CRKrueger;793241Yeah I didn't think there was negative HPs, just compare the amount past zero against max HPs to determine if it's an instakill.

Check me on this...

• I have 60hps.
• Get hit for 119 HPs, so 59 past zero, still alive and at 0 HPs.
• I make my first save, and get hit for 59 HPs again, still alive and at 0 with Death Tally 1-1.
• I make my second save, and get hit for 59 HPs again, still alive and at 0 with Death Tally at 2-2.
• I make my third save and stabilize.
• Now I roll 1d4, and get a one, so I wake up with 1hp in one hour.
• I do a long rest for 8 hours and I'm at perfect health again, like nothing happened.

So a char with 60 HPs gets hit for 237 HPs with no magical healing and is fine after a good night's sleep.

Pretty much spot on.
The players though are tracking negative HP. They were resistant to the idea that they had nearly tripple negative HP.

They used something akin to your example above.

They were neutral on the "full heal after long rest" part. But are treating HP as effectively Stamina Points. Exhaustion that you can sleep off. Its the only thing that makes much sense and ties in with the new short rest system.

Quote from: CRKrueger;793241Yeah I didn't think there was negative HPs, just compare the amount past zero against max HPs to determine if it's an instakill.

Check me on this...

• I have 60hps.
• Get hit for 119 HPs, so 59 past zero, still alive and at 0 HPs.
• I make my first save, and get hit for 59 HPs again, still alive and at 0 with Death Tally 1-1.
• I make my second save, and get hit for 59 HPs again, still alive and at 0 with Death Tally at 2-2.
• I make my third save and stabilize.
• Now I roll 1d4, and get a one, so I wake up with 1hp in one hour.
• I do a long rest for 8 hours and I'm at perfect health again, like nothing happened.

So a char with 60 HPs gets hit for 237 HPs with no magical healing and is fine after a good night's sleep.

As long as no attack upon you while Unconscious is within 5', then yes.

Killing players is pretty trivial if you really wanted to.

I'm actually surprised by the lethality of 5e. It is very familiar in feel to the lethality to older TSR D&D. Remove the Death Saves and it'd be almost on par, I think.

My Adventure League Heavy Armor Master 1st lvl Fighter with 16 CON (HP 13) and AC 18 was one-shotted by a ghoul's first attack on me. And that's with a feat where every non-magical physical P/B/S attack is reduced by 3 damage. Granted it was a critical for 16 damage, but it happens. This time it happened right out the gate. If it wasn't for the Death Saves, and the GM Ghoul going after fresh prey in melee, I would've lost the character.

5e is refreshingly lethal again, and easy to edit to make it more so.

Also remember that any hit on an unconcious character counts as 1 failed death save and a crit counts as 2 instant fails.

Definitly ups the threat level if a creature is determined to off you.