TheRPGSite

I now have the 3 core books.
In general, I'm very happy with the books.

Apart from Phandelver, which is pretty good for a starting DM, I don't think I'll be buying into the other campaign books.
They've had varying reviews quality wise and TBH I have so much old material to use with 5E, I don't even need to buy them.
I'm currently running "The Temple of Elemental Evil" , which will last ages.

My son is having a go at DMing and I gave him Phandelver to work with as practice, seeing as it's designed for starting DMs.
However, after a couple of sessions, he didn't like having to go by a written scenario and now we have the DM's guide, he's writing his own material.

So apart from the DM screen, which I'll probably buy, unless there's new Monster manuals on the Horizon, I can't see myself buying much.

I really like 5E and I'm glad I bought into it, but I can't see WotC making much more money from me.  

I wonder what other material they're going to publish in future and if it'll at all draw my interest.
I'd probably buy a campaign setting such as a re-issue of Greyhawk or something.
Are they going to do something like that I wonder?

Good question. I'm also very, very pleased with the 3 core books and I feel that I'll be set for a while.

If they publish a new Ravenloft setting book, I'll grab that, I think. Otherwise we have 4 or so other editions' worth of stuff to use, let alone all the other OSR material out there.

I am, however, looking forward to all the supplementary material that they'll put out for free in their newsletter or whatever it is.

I would probably buy a MM2, and even maybe a MM3.

I might buy campaign setting books if they are of a good enough standard.

I can't see me buying any adventures, additional player's guides or anything like that.

I like it much more than 3e, it's on par with 4e, so I will happily use it to rally newbies and grognards to D&D.

The core books are so sufficient I doubt I'll buy anything more from the line other than the forthcoming Eberron material, Ravenloft if I'm ever in the mood again, and dominion management rules. Life and funds are short enough.

This seems like the least splat-friendly ruleset in a long time.

I'm always a sucker for more scenarios (not enough time to write my own) but if they keep inflating the price and shipping weight with hardcovers for a 96 page book, I'll pass.

Buying Monster Manuals is more likely.

I would get an Eberron setting book. I probably wouldn't run it, but it'd be an interesting read and mine it for my own stuff.
The same goes for Ravenloft.

I would defo buy 5E SpellJammer and 5E GammaWorld.

I'd probably get any Monster manuals they release as well. They're always fun to read.

I wouldn't buy any splatbooks. I've never liked those sort of things, so I doubt going forward I'd bother with it either.

Unlikely I'd buy scenarios. There' so much stuff already out there anyway I can easily convert.  

So it looks like for me, setting books and Monster manuals is where they'd get my money.

I would do more MM, I always like those.

A spell compendium or just more spells.

A Magic item book as well.

I could do my own but some people have better ideas than me.

Quote from: Godfather Punk;803964I'm always a sucker for more scenarios (not enough time to write my own) but if they keep inflating the price and shipping weight with hardcovers for a 96 page book, I'll pass.

Yes, the hardback scenario books and thus the inflated prices was what initially put me off buying the scenario books, apart from later finding out they weren't that good anyway.

Greetings everyone. This is my first post but I've been a non-member lurker for quite some time.

Honestly, I am quite pleased with 5E. I started with the Blue Book (it was a gift from my parents) and my brother and I always enjoyed BECMI/RC and ADND. 2E wasn't too bad, but 3, 3.5/PF, and 4 just weren't to my taste. 5E has brought me back and has a set of mechanics that I find very much to my liking. I think Mearls and the rest have done quite a good job.

I've got all 3 books and the starter set as well as the free pdf's. I like what I see and my players are liking it as well. I read through HotDQ and was not overly impressed. I've always been a fan of Greyhawk and am currently using it for my group of 20-something through 60-something aged players.

I'm very interested to see where things go from here.

Quote from: Wood Elf;803969Greetings everyone. This is my first post but I've been a non-member lurker for quite some time.

Hi there. glad you felt like posting.

Your background sounds similar to mine, although after 2nd Ed, I dropped dnd and went to Runequest, Rolemaster and other systems over the years.

I DID run PF for a while, but got sick of it once it hit mid to high level and unmanageable. It was easy to get players for though.

Anyway, yeah, It'll be very interesting to see where WotC goes with 5E in the future.

I have the 3 core books, the Starter Set, Legacy of the Crystal Shard, and the Baldur's Gate adventure (the latter two I purchased more out of nostalgia for the CRPGs than anything else, though they turned out to be pretty decent).

Some of the adventures seem pretty good (Legacy of the Crystal Shard, Phandelver; I haven't read the BG one yet).  I have no interest in the hardcover adventure path that has been published (way too linear for my tastes).  If they produce more sandbox-ish stuff, I may check them out.

I definitely would get a Planescape campaign book (or something similar).

Beyond that, I probably will not get too much, especially if I do not end up playing/running it much.  

Like many others, I have so much old AD&D and D&D stuff I can use -- either with AD&D or 5e -- I'm not dying to expand my library.

I played Harn for awhile. Until 5E came out though I've mostly been playing my own home-brew system. I tried a variety of rpgs but not many caught my attention other than Harn.

I'm hoping that WOTC will produce more materials for gm's (setting stuff) rather than a pile of player add-ons. I've got my own various home-brew worlds, but Greyhawk has always been one of my favourites. Having been a historical reenactor for over 20 years, where authenticity is paramount, has further reinforced my preference for an "old-world" medieval western European feel. Early 10th century to early/mid 1400's. Greyhawk has that feel for me.

I have the core 3, and will probably stick with that for a while.  Then again, I've always done a lot of my own stuff anyway

Nope, not unless they give me some Planescape. It was literally the only thing that got me back into 2nd/1st (Dark Sun was nice but I have better systems for that setting).

Otherwise, D&D has largely lost my interest, and I have the Red Box & Rules Cyclopedia if I'm feeling nostalgic for a few sessions.

That said, I'm glad that they seem to largely have returned to the concept of D&D as a roleplaying game vs whatever you'd call 5th edition, and that its easily accessible to new players, simply as the main face of the publishing side of the hobby.

And if they manage to do some more nice & cheap pre-painted minis, I'll be all over that.

PS welcome to the site Wood Elf.

Quote from: Wood Elf;803969Greetings everyone. This is my first post but I've been a non-member lurker for quite some time.

Hey, I did that too! Welcome out of the shadows.

Honestly, I could do with a book to add more player options. No new classes though.

Things I would like to see in a book are:

More of the "choose one of these" options for classes. So more Bard Colleges, Domains, Primal Paths, Druid Circles, Martial Archetypes, etc. etc.

I just think a lot can be done with these, and it gives more options, but because they are selected once for the entire class, it doesn't complicate things.

Backgrounds. Tons, and Tons of backgrounds. They could just pile these on all day.

Races. Subraces.

Feats... Eh, I dont' think we need a bunch more feats. Maybe just a few here and there to give some for certain types of characters that seem to have no real feat options as it is. With my human monk right now, I'm thinking like, Mobile and then the rest in ability score improvements, because there isn't a lot that improves what I see him being good at. This is the one place I think they could overload easily though because it can provide too many complexities in character creation.

Spells. Always more spells.

Also things that are nonsetting I wouldn't mind:
More magic items, a whole book of magic items. With tons of lists of neat quirks and histories to go with them. And not "power" items but just neat interesting things you could find. With tons of random charts for treasure.

Setting Wise:
I would buy Eberron, Planescape, and for the love of god if they brought back Spelljammer I would be all over that.

And yeah, more monster manuals are never bad.

Thanks for the welcome folks.

Emperor Norton, I have to agree with you on the backgrounds. I really like them and would love to see more.

I'm usually so damn busy these days I don't get a whole lot of time to devote to gaming, so anything that can provide more ideas and flavour is alright with me.

Lots of ideas for quirks and unique (non power-bloating) stuff to make the "+1" weapons and armour more interesting would be excellent. I like what is included in the DMG but I would love to see more.

I'd be happy to pay for good adventures or a new campaign world setting, but what's in the pipeline so far doesn't interest me. I might also buy a second MM, and a book on domain management / worldsim.

Having downloaded the Basics and thoroughly reading the PHB and Monster Manual I can't say it's swayed me to purchase them thus far. I just don't think there's enough about the system to pull me into it like 3e and 4E did. If I want a lower numbers campaign,  E6 is right there for the playing and any adventure can be made to use those variant rules with some tweaking.  Not that it's a bad system, it's just that I can port over the better parts of it while not shelling out money for it.

From everything I've read the strategy is to produce one 'story event' each year, which will be a couple of big modules that take you from levels 1 to 20 if you play them through. Each new 'story event' will have an accompanying book of optional rules with more player stuff, and possibly the GM stuff too, that isn't fully clear at this point. Next year's story event is a re-imagining of Temple of Elemental Evil and there will be an options book so expect things like more element based spells, element sorcery origins, new types of cleric or Druid aligned to elements and so on.

Their stated strategy for making buckets of cash is not via the TTRPG but via the D&D IP and things like films, computer games and so on.

Personally, I'm so pleased with the core three that I don't feel a burning need for additional material. I'm sure I'll want more stuff eventually, but I think that day is quite a way off.

Waiting for my DMG to arrive.

I may eventually pick up the starter just to see for myself what its like.

Despite all its many flaws, I think Hoard of the Dragon Queen was a good effort for a collaboration with a second party.

Past that its hard to say.

Id love to see a book with more backgrounds and paths. No new classes. But yes more paths.

I suspect there will be one or two setting books. Forgotten realms is a near guarantee no buy. So is Dragonlance. I doubt they will make a totally new setting for 5e. Theyd have likely done that from the start to keep things intigrated. But never know.

Id like to see more modules from Kobold now that they have the actual rules rather than betas to work with.

I'm still waiting for my copy of 5e DMG but in an ideal world, I would not buy more D&D 5 stuff since I have many stuff others editions (2e, 3e) or others D20 games (LotFP, 13th age) that would keep me gaming for years. (I have already in my hands the Sarter Kit, the PHB and the MM.)

But I cannot rule out an impulsive purchase in the forseable future.

For all that I've played, generated characters, and ran, I don't own the core three books. I have gone through Starter Set and HotDQ, and heard enough about RoT. Of that I would buy Starter Set (it's just straight up solid for modern beginner GMs, a much needed product), and strongly thinking about the DMG.

The PHB... I would buy later, if I really cared about opening up more player options at my table. But otherwise with the Basic PHB .pdf and Basic MM/DMG .pdf I'm not as anxious about getting another to fill in some holes. What I really miss is setting product — god, that stuff drives me nuts, I love setting material!

As for modules, there needs to be more, especially on the caliber of at least the Starter Set. I normally hate modules, but I know that a new GM needs more material to work with. That and there's a lot more playstyles to cover, as we already got micro-sandbox and epic serial campaign covered (I am none too impressed by HotDQ, though).

If at the very least there needs to be little bric-a-brac pieces to seed for GMs. Stuff like a book filled with: temperate medieval town layouts, memorable locations, memorable everyday NPCs, memorable institutions with framework and agendas, etc. A good move would create that pile of optional stuff to be compatible with Starter Set's Phandelver region, just to show how GMs can easily modify their world to their taste. A little Plug 'n Play how-to practice for new GMs on borrowing, replacing, and omitting official material, so as to teach them how to gleefully depart into their own setting interpretations. (Basically teach them how to stamp their foot down on the dreaded rise of "received canon.")

We must teach the children how to make the Forgotten Realms theirs. Learn to make their own atmosphere, style, & moods.

I enthusiastically bought the PHB, MM and DMG the day they were released.

However, I'm not planning on buying any further supplements at all. The next D&D product I will buy will be the 6e PHB in five to eight years time (unless 6e looks terrible, of course).

It's not because I don't like the game. I do - I'm currently DMing two weekly campaigns of it. It's because I don't like the idea of the "supplement treadmill" in general. If I have the cash and shelf space for five books I'd rather buy the core rulebooks for five different games than buy the rule book and four supplements for a single game.

I've noticed that as I've got older I often don't use the supplements for older games that I do own. Practically every game I run these days is "core rulebook only" for simplicity's sake.

Own all three. Will probably continue to purchase the stuff I find useful. I'm more interested in setting/modular system-books.

That said - there's a lot that can be done with this system as is. So I'm expecting to enjoy riding the wave. I have no problem supporting a line which I'm actively using.

I am happy with it and I could see myself getting a Dragonlance setting book or a new setting book if it's ever done. I would be interested in an Unearthed Arcana type book with alternate systems/campaign level rule twists or a book with more subclasses/backgrounds/magic items (kind of a kitchen sink book that doesn't give alternate rules or whatever), something like a player's compedium like FantasyCraft does.

I don't see myself ever running it... it hasn't turned my head from the OSR games I play. There might eventually be some third party stuff I'm interested in.

I have the three core books and am happy with them overall. I will look at each product as it is released and see if it appeals to me or not.

I hate the hardback format for adventures, so won't be buying those.

I'm sure I'll be buying more 5E material as it comes out, but just how much depends on the kind of content offered.

As far as I can tell, the only things in the announced pipeline (so far) are the DM screen (which is already pre-ordered) and a couple of books tied to the elemental theme for next year's Adventurer's League/Encounters release (which for me is a maybe).

I'm fairly sure that my next campaign will probably be a plug & play of 5E into older settings and modules, most likely BECMI and/or 2E, since I already have an entire library of that stuff - much of which has never been played.

Quote from: dbm;804075Their stated strategy for making buckets of cash is not via the TTRPG but via the D&D IP and things like films, computer games and so on.

Well they arent getting any movies until they find a way around Solomon and apparently Warner now. Otherwise theyd have likely had something out by now. As is its looking not good on the film side for D&D.

Bought the core three.  I'm on board for any new monster manuals, love those.  I've very, very wary of rule book explosion -- I'm in the process of trying to get off the Pathfinder treadmill as we speak.  I like settings books, and if they come with limited, setting-unique rules I'm OK with that.

I already have the phb and just used store credit to order the MM and DMG.  Getting something else for 5th aside from the would all be dependent on there being something coming out that I wanted and whether or not a stable game comes along.

Still awaiting the DMG here.

We have a game going, but my formative years were spent playing Runequest and I've been gently nudging folks in my group in the direction of Runequest 6.

That said, of the D&Ds I do enjoy 5e the most, and would happily buy Dragonlance or Dark Sun for it.

My only issue is the same issue I have with most rpg's. Many of the damn weapon pictures are so ridiculous. I get it, it's fantasy, but I like a little more realism in my fantasy stuff. It's my own little idiosyncrasy.

It just drives me nuts. But I can ignore it easily enough.

My thoughts so far have been that I have a ton of RPGs, including past iterations of D&D, and I really don't need any more. But I have been tempted to get 5th and give it a whirl. I'd be interested in approximating the 2nd ed feel, and run a Paladins and Princesses type campaign with it.

Or get 2nd ed off of ebay. I'm waffling.

Quote from: Wood Elf;804230My only issue is the same issue I have with most rpg's. Many of the damn weapon pictures are so ridiculous. I get it, it's fantasy, but I like a little more realism in my fantasy stuff. It's my own little idiosyncrasy.

It just drives me nuts. But I can ignore it easily enough.

You havent seen enough real world weapons then. Theres some pretty odd shaped ones out there that put the ones in most fantasy books to shame for their weirdness.

Quote from: Omega;804252You havent seen enough real world weapons then. Theres some pretty odd shaped ones out there that put the ones in most fantasy books to shame for their weirdness.

Granted, and they are mostly east-Indian/Asian in origin.

My primary interest is in Western European weaponry. I've been studying world weaponry for almost 30 years, so I am fairly familiar with the variety of weaponry out there. Trends emerge as to the usefulness of a design. Typically, the designs that are most prevalent are the ones that are the most efficient and effective. Weird shit does crop up, but in many cases these are pieces made for ceremonial purposes, not actual combat. What irks me the most are things such as spikes and hooks that curve backwards into the gripping area and the often ridiculous proportions of many fantasy weapons.

I have all five books, and am running Tyranny of Dragons now.  We're having a blast. I, personally, think the adventures are better than people are giving them credit for (I especially love how they structured the Rise of Tiamat).

Been really thrilled with the three core rulebooks, and I'm very open to what comes next, especially with the very conservative release schedule they are talking about.

This is the first time in over a decade I've cared one bit about D&D.

Psionics, psionics, psionics. They (And the "Alien" parts of the D&D mythos, like Giths and Slaad) have always been a big part of my campaign.

i have not even brought any of the books and i can assure you i will be buying the manual of the planes if its good enough it may even convince me to buy the core books

i will be very disappointed if they dont make a manual of the planes for this edition

I've got the three core books and I'm pretty happy with them, what I'd like to see is some sort of character options book as Emperor Norton outlined. More backgrounds, feats, archetypes, and sub-classes. I'm totally behind this idea of 5e not turning into another massive supplement treadmill, and I'm not unhappy with the amount of options already in the PHB, I just think there is room for one more go-around.

I'd rather they didn't add any more races, to avoid the whole Mos Eisley cantina feeling that 4e sometimes had going on, and I'd rather not see too many more spells, because I am still a bit concerned about the balance between full casters and martial types. I'd like to see a whole bunch more magic items fleshed out as well, but perhaps including that in a player-facing book would send the wrong message in terms of how much players should expect to be able to buy and build around such items.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;804325I have all five books, and am running Tyranny of Dragons now.  We're having a blast. I, personally, think the adventures are better than people are giving them credit for (I especially love how they structured the Rise of Tiamat).
...

We're about one session away from completing HotDQ and, although I've been critical of it, the second half of the book turned out to be a lot more "robust" than I expected. By that, I mean that the party has made all kinds of choices and employed various strategies that I wouldn't have foreseen, and it certainly "feels" as though they've made the campaign their own. And yet, the parameters of the adventure are still in place, it has enough "depth" to allow all kinds of variations, and we haven't run into any fatal bottlenecks.

Despite the unpredictability, it's been fairly easy to DM and there's no doubt that the group is having a blast. All of the PCs seem to be developing their own shticks and there have been many bursts of laughter as well as a healthy amount of tension.

The PHB and MM, despite a few matters of taste, organization, and default dial settings, were a solid hit for me.  The DMG was less so, but I think it was a good book overall.

Would I like to see more:

Player options?  Not for a while. Not at least until there's more DM content. My moment of weakness here will be if they have a storm/tempest flavored sorcerer is the God Heroes of ElementalTorment Scape, or whatever it's going to be called. Neither of the current sorcerer flavors ring my bells.

Monsters?  Yes, always yes.

Magic Items? Mmm, maybe.  I don't need MORE, MORE, MORE. I'd rather see some creativity invested in making magic items more evocative.

Campaign Settings? I'd like to see something *new*, but I realize that's not very likely. As so many other has have said, if I do anything with FR I'll just pull out the grey box. I don't really need a 5e specific update.

Modules? Yes, please.  While I agree that there's a wonderful back catalog from various editions and OSR offshoots that can be easily updated, I have this impression (perhaps incorrect) that active production of DM material is a sign of a healthy game.  Phandelver was a really good start. What I've heard about the whole Tiamat thing has left me cold (but I have seen some improved reports of continued play with them...) I don't really want epic adventure path "1st level to apotheosis" kind of things.

Quote from: Saplatt;804525We're about one session away from completing HotDQ and, although I've been critical of it, the second half of the book turned out to be a lot more "robust" than I expected. By that, I mean that the party has made all kinds of choices and employed various strategies that I wouldn't have foreseen, and it certainly "feels" as though they've made the campaign their own. And yet, the parameters of the adventure are still in place, it has enough "depth" to allow all kinds of variations, and we haven't run into any fatal bottlenecks.

Despite the unpredictability, it's been fairly easy to DM and there's no doubt that the group is having a blast. All of the PCs seem to be developing their own shticks and there have been many bursts of laughter as well as a healthy amount of tension.

Sounds like a win to me. =)

We're midway through episode four (the caravan ride) and it very much feels like its own campaign. Two PCs just joined The Harpers and one joined The Order of the Gauntlet, the latter because he used his Ki Powers to win an Indian Leg Wrestling contest against Onthar Frume and earned Frume's respect. The Dragonborn Ranger in the party is becoming a disciple of Lathandar after a throw away event in The Inn of Lost Heroes, a Labyrinth Lord adventure I slotted in for Halloween after episode three.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how things continue to develop and I'm REALLY looking forward to the political finagling of The Rise of Tiamat.

How did you guys handle character creation? Did you use the Background Templates from Hoard of the Dragon Queen?

Quote from: Natty Bodak;804538The PHB and MM, despite a few matters of taste, organization, and default dial settings, were a solid hit for me.  The DMG was less so, but I think it was a good book overall.

Would I like to see more:

Player options?  Not for a while. Not at least until there's more DM content. My moment of weakness here will be if they have a storm/tempest flavored sorcerer is the God Heroes of ElementalTorment Scape, or whatever it's going to be called. Neither of the current sorcerer flavors ring my bells.

Monsters?  Yes, always yes.

Magic Items? Mmm, maybe.  I don't need MORE, MORE, MORE. I'd rather see some creativity invested in making magic items more evocative.

Campaign Settings? I'd like to see something *new*, but I realize that's not very likely. As so many other has have said, if I do anything with FR I'll just pull out the grey box. I don't really need a 5e specific update.

Modules? Yes, please.  While I agree that there's a wonderful back catalog from various editions and OSR offshoots that can be easily updated, I have this impression (perhaps incorrect) that active production of DM material is a sign of a healthy game.  Phandelver was a really good start. What I've heard about the whole Tiamat thing has left me cold (but I have seen some improved reports of continued play with them...) I don't really want epic adventure path "1st level to apotheosis" kind of things.

Player Options - I can get behind that.

Monsters - Heck yeah, though once I get the feel for conversion down, I have enough old Monster Manuals that I may not need it.

Magic Items - I've already inserted a few items from the Encylopedia Magica into the campaign, and figured out easily how to tweak them so that, mechanically, they felt like 5e items.

Modules - Sure. I'm digging Tyranny of Dragons, but I would also be fine with "less epic", so long as they were done well enough.

Quote from: Saplatt;804525We're about one session away from completing HotDQ and, although I've been critical of it, the second half of the book turned out to be a lot more "robust" than I expected. By that, I mean that the party has made all kinds of choices and employed various strategies that I wouldn't have foreseen, and it certainly "feels" as though they've made the campaign their own. And yet, the parameters of the adventure are still in place, it has enough "depth" to allow all kinds of variations, and we haven't run into any fatal bottlenecks.

Despite the unpredictability, it's been fairly easy to DM and there's no doubt that the group is having a blast. All of the PCs seem to be developing their own shticks and there have been many bursts of laughter as well as a healthy amount of tension.

That's good to hear. I've long thought that adventures are where WOTC have really dropped the ball in their support of D&D, and that for new players and DMs, adventures are where they develop their ideas of how to actually run the game.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;804544Sounds like a win to me. =)

...
How did you guys handle character creation? Did you use the Background Templates from Hoard of the Dragon Queen?

Nope. Just standard backgrounds from the PH.

Honestly, no one is terribly committed to any of the factions. They've been cutting a lot of deals, though, mostly on an ad hoc basis.

I will not be getting anything that takes the format of a "splatbook".  I pray they don't fall back into that bullshit.  The plan is adventures and maybe settings, in terms of what WoTC ought to release now.

Can WoTC actually resist the urge to making massive rules-bloat?  I don't know, but having made the three core books all Optional is a huge step in the right direction, if they can keep to that, because it means splatbooks, even if they do exist, can be ignored.

Quote from: RPGPundit;805305I will not be getting anything that takes the format of a "splatbook".  I pray they don't fall back into that bullshit.  The plan is adventures and maybe settings, in terms of what WoTC ought to release now.

Can WoTC actually resist the urge to making massive rules-bloat?  I don't know, but having made the three core books all Optional is a huge step in the right direction, if they can keep to that, because it means splatbooks, even if they do exist, can be ignored.

Let's be honest: they won't resist the urge. Character "builds" are a part of the modern game (as is institutionalized snowflaking, really). There's $$ in them thare hills!

I want the basic packet to work well. If it's got enough to play a decent game, I'm in with that. Agreed that ability to ignore options and such is paramount (but then, I thought that was always the case?).

Quote from: cranebump;805316I want the basic packet to work well. If it's got enough to play a decent game, I'm in with that. Agreed that ability to ignore options and such is paramount (but then, I thought that was always the case?).

I'd hoped there'd be a stronger voice for playing with just the Basic elements... but from what I read it's almost as if those free files don't exist and it's full steam ahead with turning all possible switches to 'ON'.
Even if WOTC did resist the splatbloat the Players would be demanding it... someone like Goodman would provide it with the serial numbers filed off.

Vast quantities of GURPS are options too... but it still gets the reputation of being uber-crunchy because folks seemingly go buggy at the notion of ignoring big chunks of the rulebook.

Honestly, I'm not anti-splat, I'm just anti-splat BLOAT.

I could do with more backgrounds for instance. I could do with more class archetypes. I would hate too many more feats though because you get so few as it is, putting in too many turns into weirdness. I do think they could use a few more in the way of like, Actor/Alert/etc that are good noncombat feats, but not too many.

And I like more races. I know its not for everyone, but more races is cool.

But no more classes. The classes are good as is. (Exception: a Psionics book could add like, a pure psion class, and then a Fighter archetype and Rogue Archetype to cover the other psion type characters).

And yeah, I think there can be a problem when people are "EVERYTHING IS CORE, YOU HAVE TO USE EVERYTHING" but that is a player problem, not a system problem.

QuoteBut no more classes. The classes are good as is. (Exception: a Psionics book could add like, a pure psion class, and then a Fighter archetype and Rogue Archetype to cover the other psion type characters).

I would tend to agree with this except for a couple things, I would like to see some kind of Bladesinger subclass (similar to Eldritch Knight but built from the Wizard class instead of the Fighter class) and a few more Bard/Sorcerer subclasses. Also more backgrounds are never a bad thing.

Quote from: Marleycat;805340I would tend to agree with this except for a couple things, I would like to see some kind of Bladesinger subclass (similar to Eldritch Knight but built from the Wizard class instead of the Fighter class) and a few more Bard/Sorcerer subclasses. Also more backgrounds are never a bad thing.

You are agreeing with me. I said no more classes, but that I wanted more archetypes for the existing classes. Sorcerer is especially lacking.

I'm strongly tempted to do a near-zero magic game (no casters), but I want to play it 'straight' to get a feel for the system.

Quote from: Simlasa;805327I'd hoped there'd be a stronger voice for playing with just the Basic elements... but from what I read it's almost as if those free files don't exist and it's full steam ahead with turning all possible switches to 'ON'.
Even if WOTC did resist the splatbloat the Players would be demanding it... someone like Goodman would provide it with the serial numbers filed off.

Vast quantities of GURPS are options too... but it still gets the reputation of being uber-crunchy because folks seemingly go buggy at the notion of ignoring big chunks of the rulebook.

Outside the playtest, the only thing I've run is a 5E Basic one shot, mainly because we shifted to BFRPG for the current campaign. The characters still seemed pretty robust (we had Cleric, Fighter, Fighter, Wizard).

Quote from: Simlasa;805327I'd hoped there'd be a stronger voice for playing with just the Basic elements... but from what I read it's almost as if those free files don't exist and it's full steam ahead with turning all possible switches to 'ON'.

I noticed this too. But also noting that people are alot more open with dropping out classes and spells or feats they dont want. Not seeing as many that are gung-ho for everything on. Partially because you cant since some options replace other rules.

I was today discussing the possibility of doing a side adventure with a DM using just the Basic rules.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;805344You are agreeing with me. I said no more classes, but that I wanted more archetypes for the existing classes. Sorcerer is especially lacking.

Verily! I was hoping there would be more class paths in the DMG. But only got the Death path for Clerics and the Oathbreaker path for Paladins. Both meant for NPCs but useable for PCs.

Quote from: Will;805346I'm strongly tempted to do a near-zero magic game (no casters), but I want to play it 'straight' to get a feel for the system.

I was thinking the same thing, except making all spells Ritual-only and that anyone with Arcane skill proficiency can attempt to cast them from spellbooks, scrolls etc...

I like 5E a whole lot more than 4E and 3.X but it still doesn't do enough for me to get me to give up on 2E or HackMaster. Maybe a new BirthRight campaign setting would get me to run it.

Completed HotDQ yesterday ... well, except for one loose end the PCs want to attend to ... and all things considered, it went pretty well. I probably did a lot more substitution and hacking than I do with the average canned module, but, as I mentioned above, the adventure outline was strong enough to handle it.

Best news is that two of the younger players are starting up campaigns of their own (both will be using the starter set), so I'm seeing traces of a viral effect.

One thing I noticed is that while the characters don't gain quite as much per level, they definitely level up faster and we completed the first book in about ten 4-hour sessions. If Rise of Tiamat goes at anything near that pace, we should be done with the whole thing in March, which is about the time that the Princes of the Apocalypse is supposed to be released. So at this point, I'm leaning towards giving that a shot as well.

In terms of splats, I've only had one player complain about character options, but he's the only one who hasn't purchased the PHB and typically relies instead on SRDs. He's not thrilled with the options in the free Basic rules. But then he wouldn't actually buy a splat anyway.

"buy more into it" assumes I'll buy the first three books...so no, not interested in yet another version of D&D. Can't really fathom why anyone cares anymore what Wizards of the Coast produces when there are so many other options including the army of D&D clones.

Quote from: Necrozius;805394I was thinking the same thing, except making all spells Ritual-only and that anyone with Arcane skill proficiency can attempt to cast them from spellbooks, scrolls etc...

Just ditch the magic system and use Call of Cthulhu's instead. Seems like it'd be a snap to port over. Use HP for POW and all good to go.

Quote from: Matt;806502"buy more into it" assumes I'll buy the first three books...so no, not interested in yet another version of D&D. Can't really fathom why anyone cares anymore what Wizards of the Coast produces when there are so many other options including the army of D&D clones.

I don't know why anyone would ever watch a new movie or read a new book since there are so many other options out there.

in other words, because people enjoy it

Quote from: Matt;806502"buy more into it" assumes I'll buy the first three books...so no, not interested in yet another version of D&D. Can't really fathom why anyone cares anymore what Wizards of the Coast produces when there are so many other options including the army of D&D clones.

Because I think it's better than any of the clones. Yes, my own included.

Quote from: RPGPundit;805305I will not be getting anything that takes the format of a "splatbook".  I pray they don't fall back into that bullshit.  The plan is adventures and maybe settings, in terms of what WoTC ought to release now.

Can WoTC actually resist the urge to making massive rules-bloat?  I don't know, but having made the three core books all Optional is a huge step in the right direction, if they can keep to that, because it means splatbooks, even if they do exist, can be ignored.

Does it really matter if they DO release loads of splat books?
I for one probably wouldn't buy them and happily continue just using the the PHB and DMG class options.
But some probably WOULD like to get splat books and lots of them.

How would it negatively affect you if lots of splatbooks were released?
The only possible thing that could happen is I suppose is follow up material for Scenarios etc requiring the splatbooks, but that could be adapted/changed.

How about inexpensive scenario material, like the old TSR/JG modules, or Dungeon Crawl Classics? A lot of stuff doesn't really warrant the expense of hardbound volumes, but could add up to plenty if people are buying something every few weeks.

A periodical more or less like The Dragon (even if only digital) might have wide appeal.

I'm pretty damn thrilled by 5e so some purchases are definitely in the cards.

Rules-wise, I'm looking forward to a MM or two, an equipment/magic items guide, and a GM screen, unless they're crazy enough not to sell one. I would also be interested a book on domain management. If they decide to publish more player's handbooks, they'll get a pass, I'm not interested in anything that would threaten to bloat what is an already nice set-up for players.

As far as campaign materials go, I'm always interested in the Manual of the Planes, and Deities and Demigods. Settings-wise, I might bite for Spelljammer and Planescape, but I'd rather save up for Zak S's Realms of Chaos tribute he's been threatening to do for a while now.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;806529I don't know why anyone would ever watch a new movie or read a new book since there are so many other options out there.

in other words, because people enjoy it

Right, because the 5th edition is "new." kinda like that Robocop that came out recently.

Quote from: Matt;806502"buy more into it" assumes I'll buy the first three books...so no, not interested in yet another version of D&D. Can't really fathom why anyone cares anymore what Wizards of the Coast produces when there are so many other options including the army of D&D clones.

Next, on Mutual of Omaha's "Wild Kingdom", Marlin Perkins tracks the wild Coke/Pepsi troll.

Quote from: Matt;807019Right, because the 5th edition is "new." kinda like that Robocop that came out recently.

Might want to pull that stick out of your ass

Quote from: RPGPundit;805305I will not be getting anything that takes the format of a "splatbook".  I pray they don't fall back into that bullshit.  The plan is adventures and maybe settings, in terms of what WoTC ought to release now.

Can WoTC actually resist the urge to making massive rules-bloat?  I don't know, but having made the three core books all Optional is a huge step in the right direction, if they can keep to that, because it means splatbooks, even if they do exist, can be ignored.

Name one damn splatbook WotC or any other company has ever produced that is so important that a group playing said game cannot ignore it.  

The whole whinyness against splatbooks is hogwash.  If you do not like them and do not want to use them....don't.

Quote from: Old One Eye;807041Name one damn splatbook WotC or any other company has ever produced that is so important that a group playing said game cannot ignore it.  

The whole whinyness against splatbooks is hogwash.  If you do not like them and do not want to use them....don't.

The difficulty is that the group will likely have split opinions about each splatbook; those players who bought a particular book presumably want to use it, while others don't because it undercuts or weakens the parts of the game that they like or consider important. The DM can make a final ruling but still alienates one of those two sides with whatever ruling.

Quote from: rawma;807048The difficulty is that the group will likely have split opinions about each splatbook; those players who bought a particular book presumably want to use it, while others don't because it undercuts or weakens the parts of the game that they like or consider important. The DM can make a final ruling but still alienates one of those two sides with whatever ruling.

Failing to see how that is any different than a DM saying that PCs can only be humans and no magic users because that is how her world works.

Quote from: Matt;806502"buy more into it" assumes I'll buy the first three books...so no, not interested in yet another version of D&D. Can't really fathom why anyone cares anymore what Wizards of the Coast produces when there are so many other options including the army of D&D clones.

   While overly acerbic and dismissive, you do have a point. 5E seems like it's quite good at being D&D for D&D's sake, but does it have much to offer beyond that? It's not the 'what we've all been doing for years' of 2E, the 'bring the game up to date' of 3E, or the 'bold new direction' of 4E.

   I'm not saying it's a bad game--I haven't purchased the books or played it, so I'm relying on impressions from Basic and secondhand reports--but its primary purpose appears to be as an entry point for new players and a solid baseline or lingua franca for the 'core D&D experience'. For many, that's enough. It seems primarily focused for those who love D&D for its own sake, which appears to encompass many of the posters here. For those of us who are more on the fringe of the game (Ravenloft was pretty much the only thing keeping me in D&D's orbit through most of the 2E and 3E era, and one of the things that convinced me to give 4E a second look), it doesn't seem to have anything to hook us.

Quote from: Old One Eye;807041Name one damn splatbook WotC or any other company has ever produced that is so important that a group playing said game cannot ignore it.  

The whole whinyness against splatbooks is hogwash.  If you do not like them and do not want to use them....don't.

Have you actually ever played D&D 3.X with a real group..? It is astonishing what sort of crap people consider required for a game.

I was very surprised to see what had become the prevailing gamer culture in 3e.

In MY games (play or run), the GM shapes a game to be a certain thing. Input is often requested, but ultimately it's the GM's responsibility to select what is included, excluded, or changed.

The idea that the GM's rights to vet material is limited, and that people should have the right to use any book they bought... I still find that utterly absurd, but apparently a lot of folks feel that way.

Which explains why I like splatbooks and others feel less thrilled about it, and, come to think of it, explains why I saw OGL as an unvarnished positive and others saw it as horrible.

Quote from: Will;807100I was very surprised to see what had become the prevailing gamer culture in 3e.

In MY games (play or run), the GM shapes a game to be a certain thing. Input is often requested, but ultimately it's the GM's responsibility to select what is included, excluded, or changed.

The idea that the GM's rights to vet material is limited, and that people should have the right to use any book they bought... I still find that utterly absurd, but apparently a lot of folks feel that way.

Which explains why I like splatbooks and others feel less thrilled about it, and, come to think of it, explains why I saw OGL as an unvarnished positive and others saw it as horrible.

My biggest gripe about splatbooks isn't their content, rather it's the opportunity cost in creating them.  Every page of that they turn out is one page fewer they have put into GM support. I have this gut feeling that GM support (settings, modules, etc.) going forward will provide longevity for this edition, but splatbooks make the most money.  I don't have any evidence to back that up though.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;807096While overly acerbic and dismissive, you do have a point. 5E seems like it's quite good at being D&D for D&D's sake, but does it have much to offer beyond that? It's not the 'what we've all been doing for years' of 2E, the 'bring the game up to date' of 3E, or the 'bold new direction' of 4E.

   I'm not saying it's a bad game--I haven't purchased the books or played it, so I'm relying on impressions from Basic and secondhand reports--but its primary purpose appears to be as an entry point for new players and a solid baseline or lingua franca for the 'core D&D experience'. For many, that's enough. It seems primarily focused for those who love D&D for its own sake, which appears to encompass many of the posters here. For those of us who are more on the fringe of the game (Ravenloft was pretty much the only thing keeping me in D&D's orbit through most of the 2E and 3E era, and one of the things that convinced me to give 4E a second look), it doesn't seem to have anything to hook us.

5e is the balance of all the things that I liked about previews editions of D&D, without all the things I didn't.

Its easier than AD&D, its got the customization of 3.x, it has a strong clean unified mechanic like 4e.

But it doesn't have the weird clutter of AD&D, it doesn't have the crazy minmax trap options and powergaming abuse of 3.x, it doesn't have the gameyness of 4e.

I like 5e because it strikes a balance of all the things I want out of D&D. Not because its "new", and definitely not because its D&D. Hell, I had stopped playing D&D for a long time because of how much 3.x turned me off, and how much the lack of a unified mechanic in AD&D had soured me.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;8071165e is the balance of all the things that I liked about previews editions of D&D, without all the things I didn't.

Its easier than AD&D, its got the customization of 3.x, it has a strong clean unified mechanic like 4e.

But it doesn't have the weird clutter of AD&D, it doesn't have the crazy minmax trap options and powergaming abuse of 3.x, it doesn't have the gameyness of 4e.

I like 5e because it strikes a balance of all the things I want out of D&D. Not because its "new", and definitely not because its D&D. Hell, I had stopped playing D&D for a long time because of how much 3.x turned me off, and how much the lack of a unified mechanic in AD&D had soured me.

  To clarify, when I say 'love D&D for its own sake', I don't mean attachment to the name or the brand, but rather that ambiance and collection of elements, tropes, and other factors that make the game (as least as presented in its 'glory days') something unique and different from just 'fantasy'--the spells as discrete units, the armor-wearing, mace-wielding clerics, the Tolkien races with some quirks, the color-coded dragons, and all the other ambiance. 5E appears to do all that very well, and takes the sort of 'common D&D experience' to a very polished, harmonious whole.

  Or I could be completely wrong about all this. But I do note that ever since they took over the game, WotC has been very big about getting to that core, unified experience. I think this time, they may have it--but D&D has been such a leviathan in this hobby that there are a few who preferred things that the game did sort of obliquely or by accident, so the polishing and refocusing has lost some of those.

I think game discussions would be a lot more productive if people spent less time trying to uncover the real motivation behind people's views and just discuss games.

Not just here, but everywhere, you get things like 'you like 4e because you feel angered by OGL' or 'the real reason you like BD&D is that you are frightened of change' or whatever.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;8071165e is the balance of all the things that I liked about previews editions of D&D, without all the things I didn't.

Its easier than AD&D, its got the customization of 3.x, it has a strong clean unified mechanic like 4e.

But it doesn't have the weird clutter of AD&D, it doesn't have the crazy minmax trap options and powergaming abuse of 3.x, it doesn't have the gameyness of 4e.

I like 5e because it strikes a balance of all the things I want out of D&D. Not because its "new", and definitely not because its D&D. Hell, I had stopped playing D&D for a long time because of how much 3.x turned me off, and how much the lack of a unified mechanic in AD&D had soured me.

I was gonna type a reply, but EN pretty much did it for me.

This.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;807124I was gonna type a reply, but EN pretty much did it for me.

This.

Yeah, I was DONE with D&D years ago, though I loved some settings (Ravenloft being one)...but 5e brought me back in a huge way, and pretty much for the reasons Emperor Norton described.

I stand corrected. Probably a result of extrapolating too much from my own tastes and general ambivalence/disinterest in 5E.

Quote from: Old One Eye;807052Failing to see how that is any different than a DM saying that PCs can only be humans and no magic users because that is how her world works.

If the DM has strong opinions and doesn't mind losing some players, then this is true. A player who has sunk money into a book they can't use at all can be a bit grumpy about it, and that this is different from just having preferences about race or class. I concede that DMs are probably scarcer than players and so can more easily enforce such decisions. But not always.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;807108I have this gut feeling that GM support (settings, modules, etc.) going forward will provide longevity for this edition, but splatbooks make the most money.  I don't have any evidence to back that up though.

I suspect that GM support sells to GMs; splatbooks might sell to several players for each GM, so that would support your gut, at least in my opinion.

Quote from: Wood Elf;804230My only issue is the same issue I have with most rpg's. Many of the damn weapon pictures are so ridiculous. I get it, it's fantasy, but I like a little more realism in my fantasy stuff. It's my own little idiosyncrasy.

It just drives me nuts. But I can ignore it easily enough.

I completely agree. Some of those "artists" deserve the electric chair.