I'm enjoying it. Still feel there's not enough out there for it. But I'm playing it for now. I don't have the problem some of the rest of you have with players trying to play procedurally to jick the rules for maximum effect. Most of this shit is in context with the world I'm running.

Meanwhile I'm reasonably sure I'll be running Fantasy Craft by year's end, once Spellbound is officially announced (it's in layout). Likewise with Talislanta. POSSIBLY with a new super-secret project I might be working on if I play my cards right.

I feel good if there's a solid D&D edition for me to fall back to.
5e will hold for me.

How do you guys represent the flavorful real world effect of the spells? Like a spell that shoots fire, do you make it light things it hits on fire even if it doesn't say it specifically in the rules?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;833590How do you guys represent the flavorful real world effect of the spells? Like a spell that shoots fire, do you make it light things it hits on fire even if it doesn't say it specifically in the rules?

Unless it says otherwise, fire from fire spells will start fires if appropriate.
For example if someone throws a fireball in a wooden building... it'll probably catch fire unless there's some reason for it not to.
The same goes for any spell really that generates an effect that might have some effect on the environment.

Even the various "bolt" type spells that throw fire at a specific target might start a fire if they miss their target.
I don't generally check if the target (assuming it's a creature) itself catches fire.
However if you threw a bolt of fire at say a wooden building it might catch fire.

Well there's some spells that are ambiguous. I can't remember the name, but it was a cleric spell that brings down a bolt of fire from above, or something.

But the player used it inside; 5E had nothing to say about this, so I was stuck wondering if it would even work inside a building (is it coming from the sky?) or if it just appeared directly above the target, or what. That kind of thing.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;833594Well there's some spells that are ambiguous. I can't remember the name, but it was a cleric spell that brings down a bolt of fire from above, or something.

But the player used it inside; 5E had nothing to say about this, so I was stuck wondering if it would even work inside a building (is it coming from the sky?) or if it just appeared directly above the target, or what. That kind of thing.

I don't think too hard about these sorts of things, so go with my gut, rather than analyse it that much.
For me, I'd say that bolt from the sky spell would work indoors, as it's hey it's described that way and unless it says it doesn't work indoors, then it should.
I might have it light up fires in a the area though. I'd have to read the spell to be sure though.

I think I'm much looser in running DnD and RPGs in general than a lot of the posters here.  Any RPG can be exploited if you try hard enough.
What you;re trying to portray in RPGs are really complex environments. If someone finds a loophole in some rules and abuses it or it affects the enjoyment of the game, I'll either tell them to stop it or houserule it or just disallow that character build.
That's never really happened for me in recent memory (It probably did happen 20+ years ago when I was much younger though I guess).
People I play with play with the spirit of the game, not try to exploit it to get maximum effects.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;833594Well there's some spells that are ambiguous. I can't remember the name, but it was a cleric spell that brings down a bolt of fire from above, or something.

But the player used it inside; 5E had nothing to say about this, so I was stuck wondering if it would even work inside a building (is it coming from the sky?) or if it just appeared directly above the target, or what. That kind of thing.

I'll take a stab at this and guess you're thinking of Flame Strike?

    A vertical column of divine fire roars down from the heavens in a location you specify.

This is indeed ambiguous. By "from the heavens" do they mean from the sky or from another plane?

Let's put Flame Strike on pause for a second while we consider Call Lightning, which is a similar spell, but where they are very, very precise about the conditions in which you can cast it.

   A storm cloud appears in the shape of a cylinder, x feet tall and y feet wide, centered on a point you can see, blah blah blah.  The spell fails if you can't see point in the air where blah blah blah (for example, in a room that can't fit the cloud.

One might think that if they were so specific with Call Lightning, then their lack of specificity with Flame Strike means that it doesn't have a similar restriction. That may or may not be a correct inference about their intentions, but it certainly seems reasonable.

To me, that sort of ambiguity begs for DM adjudication.  In this particular case I'd personally go with danskmacabre's interpretation, and say that since it doesn't specify a restriction *and* there is a reading that doesn't care about ceilings (i.e. the flame coming from another plane, aka "the heavens"), then Flame Strike the hell outta that dungeon.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;833580Because a fireball can kill a man five times over, with fire, but not burn a tapestry? If anything is suffering from a lack of oxygen in the room, it's the "real world logic" of your response.

Actually...  It's the explosive force. A fireball is only half 'fire' the other half explodes with enough kinetic energy to rip apart a small hut.

You want a pure fire attack, get Flaming Sphere.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;833622Actually...  It's the explosive force. A fireball is only half 'fire' the other half explodes with enough kinetic energy to rip apart a small hut.

You want a pure fire attack, get Flaming Sphere.

That's not what the spell says, but if that's how you want it to be in your game, go for it.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;833580It's quite the stretch to get from "something still happens" to "allow the players to do something extra." Be sure to limber up first.

Only a Dm can have interesting things happen?
How lovely. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Natty Bodak;833580Because a fireball can kill a man five times over, with fire, but not burn a tapestry? If anything is suffering from a lack of oxygen in the room, it's the "real world logic" of your response.

Nearly everything will burn given enough time and heat.
The duration of the spell is instant.  What will burn with such little time?  Very very fucking little.  A Tapestry sure the shit ain't one of them.  Neither is wood.

Quote from: Sommerjon;833627Only a Dm can have interesting things happen?
How lovely. :rolleyes:

Interesting things can happen from intended or unintended consequences of actions.  But even trolls with poor reading comprehension should get that.

Quote from: Sommerjon;833627Nearly everything will burn given enough time and heat.
The duration of the spell is instant.  What will burn with such little time?  Very very fucking little.  A Tapestry sure the shit ain't one of them.  Neither is wood.

I'll fix your post here.  Everything will burn given enough heat, period. Time is just a luxury for low temperatures.  What's more, items will often be scorched before they ignite, still having damage done to them.

Not only do you get the real world case wrong, but you also get the game case wrong, where the spell explicitly states that flammable objects will catch fire as a result of the spell. So, yeah, a tapestry sure as shit *is* one of them.

Keep trolling, though.  One day you might catch one that can't quite get away from you.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;833625That's not what the spell says, but if that's how you want it to be in your game, go for it.

Fireball

A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range and the blossoms with a low roar into an EXPLOSION of flame.  Each creature within a 20 foot sphere centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw.  


Are willing to sit there and tell me that the explosive force does nothing to people?  Not a single thing?  It's just a pretty light show?


HOWEVER, the last line DOES say it sets things on fire, despite the speed and improbability of it.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;833630Fireball

A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range and the blossoms with a low roar into an EXPLOSION of flame.  Each creature within a 20 foot sphere centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw.  

Don't forget what you cut off in the spell description.

QuoteA target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much on a successful save.

Notice how it doesn't say fire *and* explosion/thunder damage.   Again, work it that way if you like, but it ain't there by itself.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;833630Are willing to sit there and tell me that the explosive force does nothing to people?  Not a single thing?  It's just a pretty light show?

The damaging aspect of a fireball could very well be more on the fire side than the  "exlosion" side.   Explosions can actually be quite tame while still being considered explosions.

I'm am indeed willing to sit here and tell you what I just told you.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;833630HOWEVER, the last line DOES say it sets things on fire, despite the speed and improbability of it.

No, it says it sets flammable objects on fire, period.  The weasel words were yours.

Kind of weird reading an argument where somebody doesn't know how the fireball spell works (heat, sets things on fire, no overpressure) - it's been that way since 1974!

Quote from: Natty Bodak;833633Don't forget what you cut off in the spell description.

I cut it off because it was pointless.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;833633Notice how it doesn't say fire *and* explosion/thunder damage.   Again, work it that way if you like, but it ain't there by itself.

Notice how every single 'elementally' based spell has ONE element attached to it?  Poison, Fire, Thunder, Lightning, Cold, Holy and stuff?  I'm assuming that the designers of D&D didn't want to confuse people (especially the old guard looking to just rip anything that isn't new apart) by making fireballs Fire/Force/Thunder effects, simply because 'reality!'

Quote from: Natty Bodak;833633The damaging aspect of a fireball could very well be more on the fire side than the  "exlosion" side.   Explosions can actually be quite tame while still being considered explosions.

At this point, I've realized that you're just here to quibble.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;833633No, it says it sets flammable objects on fire, period.  The weasel words were yours.

What I meant was that you were right.  It did set things on fire COMMA I added that it's improbable given the explosive effect and how long a fireball is detailed to last (instant.)  If you want to make assumptions as to my intent, feel free, I'm done here.

Quote from: S'mon;833647Kind of weird reading an argument where somebody doesn't know how the fireball spell works (heat, sets things on fire, no overpressure) - it's been that way since 1974!

Actually, they changed in 3.x explaining that half the damage was fire and the other half was explosive.  So no, it's not been that way since '74.