5e D&D Players Think Killing a PC is a Hate Crime

GhostNinja · March 30, 2023, 06:30:24 PM

Quote from: tenbones on March 30, 2023, 06:05:02 PM
This is *bizarre* to me.

No death in TTRPG's means there are no stakes that matter. The whole point of playing a RPG is to play another person - *even* if you model it after yourself.

Ideally you're going to make changes for the purposes of exploring the boots of another perspective somewhat adjacent to your own. Or if you got the chops, you go full out. But without Death as a possibility - I'm not sure how this even happens, when you lose in boardgames, it's the same effect, you're OUT of the game. When Pac-Man gets caught by ghosts, is this some kind of hate-crime against round people that like to eat shit?

And yes, even in Supers people die - it's happened in the comics through all ages, and the only reason the trope of coming back is a thing is because comics are serialized adventures. Yes, it should be rare(er) in TTRPG's for PC's, but in my games it happens on occasion and we do make a big deal about it. But it is ALWAYS on the menu.

Yep, I have had characters die. It sucks but you except it, move on and create another character. I wont tolerate players that whine about dying. If you can't deal with it, go play in someone else's game.

Luckily for me I have had young and older characters and all of them knew that death was a possible.

Ratman_tf · March 30, 2023, 07:41:07 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 30, 2023, 10:17:04 AM
That being said, declaring it a hate crime is ludicrous and should be responded to by hitting those saying it with a wiffle bat.

Yep. There's an intelligent discussion to be had about lethality in RPGs, but calling character death a hate crime ain't it.

Wisithir · March 30, 2023, 08:09:34 PM

I can't be a whatever-crime if its not a crime in the first place. Perhaps the whiners mean that its a though-crime to impinge upon their delusions by imposing constraints, but "hate-crime" is worth more buzz points.

Between my characters that died and stayed dead, and the ones that came back, I much preferred the ones that stayed dead. One came back from the mythological underworld by divine intervention, and one was revived after taking a heart stop attack in a supers game. Kludgy because AED do not work that way, but the super power was ambiguous too.

GM: "X damage from chain lightening"
Me: "I'm dead"
GM: "Well... Maybe..."
Me: "No, its fine."

tenbones · March 30, 2023, 08:54:22 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on March 30, 2023, 06:30:24 PM

Yep, I have had characters die. It sucks but you except it, move on and create another character. I wont tolerate players that whine about dying. If you can't deal with it, go play in someone else's game.

Luckily for me I have had young and older characters and all of them knew that death was a possible.

I dunno if I'm "fortunate" in that I've never had anyone whine at me for dying at my table in decades. And I recognize this is a relatively new thing... but if it ever happens, I feel sorry for that player and the reaction he'll get from me and my table.

And it could result in getting the boot if they don't nut-the-fuck up. But the reality is I'm pretty good of explaining how things operate in my campaigns, so overly sensitive types that aren't willing to try some "deeper" play, usually are weeded out quick.

Festus · March 30, 2023, 09:11:35 PM

I see a whole lot of "wow, that's a crazy attitude" combined with "luckily I haven't had to deal with that."

Maybe it's not really that big of a problem.

GeekyBugle · March 30, 2023, 10:25:28 PM

Quote from: Festus on March 30, 2023, 09:11:35 PM
I see a whole lot of "wow, that's a crazy attitude" combined with "luckily I haven't had to deal with that."

Maybe it's not really that big of a problem.

"It'll stay in the universities guys!"

Yeah, no, that's not how these lunatics operate. If you play at conventions, LFGS or online you'll soon see this shit start creeping in. Just like with the "safety tools", we also had one or two people claiming it wasn't "that big of a problem".

Festus · March 31, 2023, 12:55:36 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 30, 2023, 10:25:28 PM
Quote from: Festus on March 30, 2023, 09:11:35 PM
I see a whole lot of "wow, that's a crazy attitude" combined with "luckily I haven't had to deal with that."

Maybe it's not really that big of a problem.

"It'll stay in the universities guys!"

Yeah, no, that's not how these lunatics operate. If you play at conventions, LFGS or online you'll soon see this shit start creeping in. Just like with the "safety tools", we also had one or two people claiming it wasn't "that big of a problem".

So what are you going to do about it? Get Congress to pass a law mandating 20% more character death? Form a hit squad to hunt down soft DMs? Or just stoke each other's outrage in a circle jerk echo chamber?

I tried 5e for awhile and ditched it because I wanted a game with more risk. No one is going to tell me how I should play.

But here's the thing: if no one gets to tell me how to play, then I don't get to tell someone else how they should play. That's how freedom works.

GeekyBugle · March 31, 2023, 01:08:58 AM

Quote from: Festus on March 31, 2023, 12:55:36 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 30, 2023, 10:25:28 PM
Quote from: Festus on March 30, 2023, 09:11:35 PM
I see a whole lot of "wow, that's a crazy attitude" combined with "luckily I haven't had to deal with that."

Maybe it's not really that big of a problem.

"It'll stay in the universities guys!"

Yeah, no, that's not how these lunatics operate. If you play at conventions, LFGS or online you'll soon see this shit start creeping in. Just like with the "safety tools", we also had one or two people claiming it wasn't "that big of a problem".

So what are you going to do about it? Get Congress to pass a law mandating 20% more character death? Form a hit squad to hunt down soft DMs? Or just stoke each other's outrage in a circle jerk echo chamber?

I tried 5e for awhile and ditched it because I wanted a game with more risk. No one is going to tell me how I should play.

But here's the thing: if no one gets to tell me how to play, then I don't get to tell someone else how they should play. That's how freedom works.

That's a great strawman you built there, are you sure you can defeat it alone or need help from a thousand more enlightened centrists?

GhostNinja · March 31, 2023, 09:11:14 AM

Quote from: tenbones on March 30, 2023, 08:54:22 PM
I dunno if I'm "fortunate" in that I've never had anyone whine at me for dying at my table in decades. And I recognize this is a relatively new thing... but if it ever happens, I feel sorry for that player and the reaction he'll get from me and my table.

And it could result in getting the boot if they don't nut-the-fuck up. But the reality is I'm pretty good of explaining how things operate in my campaigns, so overly sensitive types that aren't willing to try some "deeper" play, usually are weeded out quick.

I agree. I usually will give them a warning and not just outright kick them from the game because that can be a bit harsh. But if they don't (as you eloquently stated) Nut-the-fuck-up then they are going to be gone from the game.

The game is supposed to be fun for both the players and the GM/DM and I will be damned if I am going to let anyone who will ruin anyone's good time stay at the table.

GhostNinja · March 31, 2023, 09:12:38 AM

Quote from: Festus on March 30, 2023, 09:11:35 PM
I see a whole lot of "wow, that's a crazy attitude" combined with "luckily I haven't had to deal with that."

Maybe it's not really that big of a problem.

No one is saying it's a huge problem, people are saying it does happen. There are snowflake players out there who have the attitude "it's my way or the highway" and they quickly find out that if the behave badly it's the highway.

Ghostmaker · March 31, 2023, 09:57:13 AM

One of the PCs in the game I'm running flubbed two saves and got turned to stone.

You could see the players' thoughts when I straight up said, 'Sorry, your friend is now a lawn ornament'. Suddenly the stakes had gotten a bit more serious (and mind you, we're all canny bastards; they had been damned careful but their luck went dry at a crucial point).

Now, fortunately, this group refuses to throw away anything that could be useful, and I'd dropped a few cursebreaker rods into the loot early on. They remembered those, and used it to dispel the petrification. But it was definitely a 'oh shit' moment.

JackFS4 · March 31, 2023, 10:12:38 AM

Kids these days...

There are games that are lethal. I've died many times pushing my luck on a 6th tour in the hopes of mustering out with a Imperial Scout Ship benefit (Traveller). DCC and MCC funnels are a blast. Alien and Call of Cthulhu are usually a game of attrition to see which PC last the longest (or pulls a Ripley and escapes alone). Paranoia isn't fun unless you mulch yourself at least twice in the service of Friend Computer (who is all knowing and I love very much).

Dying can be wildly entertaining.

Festus · March 31, 2023, 10:50:59 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2023, 01:08:58 AM
Quote from: Festus on March 31, 2023, 12:55:36 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 30, 2023, 10:25:28 PM
Quote from: Festus on March 30, 2023, 09:11:35 PM
I see a whole lot of "wow, that's a crazy attitude" combined with "luckily I haven't had to deal with that."

Maybe it's not really that big of a problem.

"It'll stay in the universities guys!"

Yeah, no, that's not how these lunatics operate. If you play at conventions, LFGS or online you'll soon see this shit start creeping in. Just like with the "safety tools", we also had one or two people claiming it wasn't "that big of a problem".

So what are you going to do about it? Get Congress to pass a law mandating 20% more character death? Form a hit squad to hunt down soft DMs? Or just stoke each other's outrage in a circle jerk echo chamber?

I tried 5e for awhile and ditched it because I wanted a game with more risk. No one is going to tell me how I should play.

But here's the thing: if no one gets to tell me how to play, then I don't get to tell someone else how they should play. That's how freedom works.

That's a great strawman you built there, are you sure you can defeat it alone or need help from a thousand more enlightened centrists?

Ok, so now what? You drew a comparison to "this shit ... creeping in" and safety tools where people said it wasn't a problem. To me that implies some kind of forewarned is forearmed attitude, a "we must learn from the past" warning. But nobody here seems to need the warning. Consensus seems to be no one has time for this hand-wringing over character death BS.

If there's no call to action, nothing to be done, then what's the point?

Grognard GM · March 31, 2023, 11:23:12 AM

I had a CoC character die, and then the GM (who enjoyed the character's antics) started to walk it back, but since the death was glorious and meaningful, I insisted he stay dead.

GeekyBugle · March 31, 2023, 11:53:55 AM

Quote from: Festus on March 31, 2023, 10:50:59 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2023, 01:08:58 AM
Quote from: Festus on March 31, 2023, 12:55:36 AM

So what are you going to do about it? Get Congress to pass a law mandating 20% more character death? Form a hit squad to hunt down soft DMs? Or just stoke each other's outrage in a circle jerk echo chamber?

I tried 5e for awhile and ditched it because I wanted a game with more risk. No one is going to tell me how I should play.

But here's the thing: if no one gets to tell me how to play, then I don't get to tell someone else how they should play. That's how freedom works.

That's a great strawman you built there, are you sure you can defeat it alone or need help from a thousand more enlightened centrists?

Ok, so now what? You drew a comparison to "this shit ... creeping in" and safety tools where people said it wasn't a problem. To me that implies some kind of forewarned is forearmed attitude, a "we must learn from the past" warning. But nobody here seems to need the warning. Consensus seems to be no one has time for this hand-wringing over character death BS.

If there's no call to action, nothing to be done, then what's the point?

LOL, somehow "Emperor" Festus thinks he can dictate what we do or talk about depending if he thinks it`s a productive use of our time.

Dude, this is the internet.