Quote from: Marleycat;775433Natty Bodak, I'm not frantic but you seem to be. So tell me what your issue is with me already please skip the passive aggressive bullshit though given it'd be helpful.

You consistently respond to people as if they've said something they didn't, responding condescendingly and didactically, which is a shitty tone. And in doing so you never actually participate in the conversation people are having. This is why you're getting the "non sequitur" nicknames, and that is largely my problem with you. A smaller element of my problem with you is that I read a lot of thinly veiled system mastery/power gamer shibboleths in your posts about 5e, and I find that tedious.

Quote from: Marleycat;775433The point is the DM shouldn't have to give a fuck you twit. You roll a 1 on a D20 you roll on the surge table. Big deal you get a daily power as an adder or subtracter end of story unless YOU as the DM decree otherwise, you..not the class get it yet?

I don't know if it's a reading comprehension or English-as-a-second-language kind of issue, but again there's no drama or angst here.

I am simply curious as to why they worded some class features (for our purposes here let's focus on Wild Magic Surge) the way they did. I'm not sure why they delegate it to the DM to make a decision about whether calling for a 1d20 roll to see if a roll on the table is needed.  Is there supposed to be some criteria the DM should evaluate in order to inform their decision?  If they were actually just saying "Hey, you can use the wild roll table or not", then wouldn't it have been easier to say that up front in the intro to the Wild Magic Source?  It's terribly unclear.

Am I worried about it? No. If I were DMing a player who had this class, I'd just say "you cast the spell, you roll the d20."

So if you care to participate in that conversation with something relevant, then cool. Maybe we can figure it out together.

If you'd rather continue being a vaporous twat with apparently poor reading comprehension, that's cool too. Sometimes I get in the mood to watch train wrecks on the internet, and that gives me one more bookmark.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;775445You consistently respond to people as if they've said something they didn't, responding condescendingly and didactically, which is a shitty tone. And in doing so you never actually participate in the conversation people are having. This is why you're getting the "non sequitur" nicknames, and that is largely my problem with you. A smaller element of my problem with you is that I read a lot of thinly veiled system mastery/power gamer shibboleths in your posts about 5e, and I find that tedious.



I don't know if it's a reading comprehension or English-as-a-second-language kind of issue, but again there's no drama or angst here.

I am simply curious as to why they worded some class features (for our purposes here let's focus on Wild Magic Surge) the way they did. I'm not sure why they delegate it to the DM to make a decision about whether calling for a 1d20 roll to see if a roll on the table is needed.  Is there supposed to be some criteria the DM should evaluate in order to inform their decision?  If they were actually just saying "Hey, you can use the wild roll table or not", then wouldn't it have been easier to say that up front in the intro to the Wild Magic Source?  It's terribly unclear.

Am I worried about it? No. If I were DMing a player who had this class, I'd just say "you cast the spell, you roll the d20."

So if you care to participate in that conversation with something relevant, then cool. Maybe we can figure it out together.

If you'd rather continue being a vaporous twat with apparently poor reading comprehension, that's cool too. Sometimes I get in the mood to watch train wrecks on the internet, and that gives me one more bookmark.

So just ignore me then. Given I'm stupid and you're intelligent right? You should take your own advice then given it won't affect your view at all or mine in fact.

They worded the section in question for us stupid people not you so intelligent people. It's basically saying ignore it or use to your personal preference but I'm stupid right? If I wasn't a nice person I'd tell you and CR off for the asshats you're being. Except CR isn't an asshat he's just passionate but I'm not sure about you quite yet.

Given I'm not I suggest you carry on sir.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;775445You consistently respond to people as if they've said something they didn't, responding condescendingly and didactically, which is a shitty tone. And in doing so you never actually participate in the conversation people are having. This is why you're getting the "non sequitur" nicknames, and that is largely my problem with you. A smaller element of my problem with you is that I read a lot of thinly veiled system mastery/power gamer shibboleths in your posts about 5e, and I find that tedious.



I don't know if it's a reading comprehension or English-as-a-second-language kind of issue, but again there's no drama or angst here.

I am simply curious as to why they worded some class features (for our purposes here let's focus on Wild Magic Surge) the way they did. I'm not sure why they delegate it to the DM to make a decision about whether calling for a 1d20 roll to see if a roll on the table is needed.  Is there supposed to be some criteria the DM should evaluate in order to inform their decision?  If they were actually just saying "Hey, you can use the wild roll table or not", then wouldn't it have been easier to say that up front in the intro to the Wild Magic Source?  It's terribly unclear.

Am I worried about it? No. If I were DMing a player who had this class, I'd just say "you cast the spell, you roll the d20."

So if you care to participate in that conversation with something relevant, then cool. Maybe we can figure it out together.

If you'd rather continue being a vaporous twat with apparently poor reading comprehension, that's cool too. Sometimes I get in the mood to watch train wrecks on the internet, and that gives me one more bookmark.

So just ignore me then. Given I'm stupid and you're intelligent right?

Marleycat, he's not calling you stupid, and you're just doing what he's pointing out that you do.

How about trying engaging with what he's actually saying?

I like you, but he's right.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;775245It's weird that they are positioning this as a DM discretion thing. The DM *may* call for a roll which *may* trigger an effect. As a DM why do I want to have to evaluate this every time the magic 8 ball shakes himself? In lieu of some sort of guidance as to when/why the DM might or might not want to call for that roll just roll the d20 and get your special snowflake chaos jollies.

Everyone has there preferences, but I would much rather the rolls be at gm discretion than mandatory. I would want the gm to use their knowledge of the setting to determine when a wild magic roll is appropriate, or when it should be enhanced, etc...
I can't speak for others, but I don't see that as a burden.
In the vast majority of situations it won't even come up.

The nice thing about a DM discretion thing is that it gives you the freedom to do it always, if you want. Sometimes, if you want. Never, under certain experiences, etc etc.

If the table is designed right (I have no idea), then it may not mechanically matter whether you roll or not, so you have a great freedom to make a choice that pleases you without worrying about unbalancing things.

Bill & Will,

I'm with you on GM discretion in general.  My brain is just having a hard time coming up with an example of what might influence me as a GM as to whether I'd call for the d20 roll, which is a decision I have to make every time the sorcerer casts a non-cantrip spell due to the Wild Magic Surge class feature (for which a 1 on the d20 will trigger a roll on the Wild Magic Surge table).  My brain just wants to say "it's a 1 in 20 chance, roll that every time."  That's a totally valid DM choice, but I'm looking for how someone else might have, or has, used a different basis for when to call for that d20 roll because I infer from the wording that the people who wrote that had something else in mind. I'd be thankful for any examples!

The Tides of Chaos feature is a little bit more clear to me. When the sorcerer gets the Tides benny, it's up to me to decide on which spell casting the consequences come home to roost. I can play it random, or I can storygame it and pick a moment of "drama" or whatever.

Possible 'when to roll':
Damaged during casting
When casting your highest spell slots
In/around a Place of Power
In combat
Saturdays (dedicated to the god of chaos)
If someone cast a spell in the round before you (wild magic resonance!)
When carrying a chaos crystal
By choice

Cool, thanks!

Quote from: Will;775601Possible 'when to roll':
Damaged during casting
When casting your highest spell slots
In/around a Place of Power
In combat
Saturdays (dedicated to the god of chaos)
If someone cast a spell in the round before you (wild magic resonance!)
When carrying a chaos crystal
By choice

Note that I'm assuming that the wild magic table roughly works out to neutrally balanced: on the grand scheme, you can roll it or not without affecting balance.

If that becomes clearly not the case, then it's a bad thing.

But I see no strong indication that it's noticeably imbalanced.

IMO, 'proper balance' would be slightly more positive results than negative, since the situational costs of negative results are usually 'worse' than equal positive results.

Quote from: Will;775604Note that I'm assuming that the wild magic table roughly works out to neutrally balanced: on the grand scheme, you can roll it or not without affecting balance.

If that becomes clearly not the case, then it's a bad thing.

But I see no strong indication that it's noticeably imbalanced.

IMO, 'proper balance' would be slightly more positive results than negative, since the situational costs of negative results are usually 'worse' than equal positive results.

Just to clarify, was your sample list for when to roll on the actual Wild Surge Table, or when to roll the d20 to check to see if you roll on the Wild Surge Table?

My crappy eyes have a tough time reading that screenshot, so I'm always a little concerned that I might not be reading it right.

My list of suggestions were for 'when to roll the d20' and completely off the top of my head (or out the other end).

I confess I haven't read more than a few entries on the wild magic table, either, for similar reasons.

I am sure we will see lots of home grown wild magic tables. And variant approaches to adding some uncertainty into it. Or to tone it down a little or ramp it up.

One I am considering is that you only call for a check when the wild mage  misses with a spell. Or is interrupted. Playing off the characters frustration or break in concentration.

What about cantrips? Do they trigger a check?

Quote from: Omega;776025What about cantrips? Do they trigger a check?

No, level 1 spells and over only.

Quote from: Omega;776025I am sure we will see lots of home grown wild magic tables.

I sure hope so! Ideally, on this site!