Please.  I want to read it.  I know Pundit has plenty to go around.

Ok.  Its a minis combat game that's only reason for popularity is because they stuck D&D as its name.  There are legions of people who all but ignored every other minis RPG/boardgame out there but now that D&D is on the title they foolishly run to the store to buy it like a herd of name brand obsessed sheep.  (See the D&D subforum on RPGnet.)

They could give D&D a ruleset universally derided, but as long as it has D&D's name on it, it will automatically have 2/3rds or more of the gaming populace playing it and calling it good.

Its an in print version of D&D.  That's almost ALWAYS a good indicator of it being an inferior RPG.

It's the final tipping of the scales towards being a miniatures-mandatory RPG, with a combat element which, whilst entertaining, naturally tends towards a tactics-heavy wargaming approach to things.

Every previous edition, even 3.X, could be happily played without miniatures - the most you had to do was slightly handwave the effects of some spells and feats, and you still had a play experience which was broadly similar to that the guys using miniatures were enjoying. The space-and-distance tracking elements of 4th Edition can't be handwaved, not without irrevocably altering the feel of the game, and so many PC powers depend on distance and spatial relationships that if you run minis-free and just handwave everything you run the risk of crippling half the powers and rendering the other half nigh-godlike. What's more if you don't run miniatures combats, you're basically missing out on the best and most interesting part of the system; I've said it before and I'll say it again, playing 4E without miniatures is like playing Ars Magica without the magic system and downtime book-keeping - what would be the point?

Furthermore, the fact that Wizards had to issue a patch for the skill challenge system shortly after the game came out is an incredibly bad sign: firstly, it was a sign that the skill challenge system didn't seem to have been playtested or thought through properly, since the number-crunchers on ENWorld showed that it is statistically wonky almost as soon as it was released. Secondly, the fact that this was considered a serious enough issue to put out a patch for it shows that Wizards are treating the system like it's software, a tendency in the games industry which seriously irritates me. Thirdly, it's indicative of the general trend in 4E to strive towards designing a carefully optimised and statistically balanced game, a godawful backslide into the sort of nitpicking pedantry that plagues the likes of the RPGA.

Actually, the skill challenge system in general is a major source of aggravation to me because it represents a shift away from character-and-world focused gaming to system-focused gaming: I find that a great many people have trouble relating the skill challenge rules to the in-game action ("Wait, the fact that the thief failed to get the information we need in the docks means I definitely can't get the information we need from the library? What the fuck?"), and the usual response is to step out of character and "game the system". Whilst I do believe that immersion is possible in just about any RPG, I've rarely seen one which is more hostile to immersion than 4E: it's like the system regularly throws cold water over your head and yells "you're playing a game! your character is just a playing piece! don't worry about your character's motives and just game the system!"

I am currently playing a Descent: Road to Legend campaign which feels nigh-indistinguishable from the 4th Edition games I ran and played, except the system is better and the combat is quicker.

4e stole my wife and killed my dog.





I really miss that dog...

My mate bought it a couple of weeks ago (ie xmas), so I took a look.

Where do all those races come from: tieflings? Eldarin?

ahhh...Dungeons & Dragons: Tactics, eh?

it's a miniatures game.  i signed on for a role-playing experience; this is Chutes & Ladders with swords.  not sure what's more pathetic...the game design, or the anime-loving beardos defending it like it was their fat girlfriend.  

is that good?

Weak sauce. Where's the MMO digs?

It's boring.

I've never really bought the MMO analogy; board games like Descent are a vastly (and I mean vastly) closer analogue. Maybe if I played some D&D Insider I'd see what people were talking about, I'll just go do that now...

oh wait

Any sign that DDI is going to go active... ever?

Quote from: Stuart;279540

I keyed on that line as well.

Just another reason why Ryan Dancey should be pelted with water balloons everywhere he goes.

Quote from: kregmosier;279551not sure what's more pathetic...the game design, or the anime-loving beardos defending it like it was their fat girlfriend.  

is that good?

You bastard, I almost pissed myself from laughing so hard!

Quote from: B.T.;279524Please.  I want to read it.  I know Pundit has plenty to go around.

I'm pretty vitrioled out over 4E. The game just doesn't work for me and there are a hardcore group of 4E Zealots who want to hang me and everyone else who doesn't enjoy 4E for our game preferences.

Thanks Warthur!  Now I don't have to write a long post because you hit every point of contention that I have with 4e D&D on the head.  See Warthur's post (#3)!

The marketing was a TOTAL FAILURE, thus ensuring that any prominence 4E enjoys in the market or at events will be through MERIT ALONE.

CURSE YOU, WOTC!!!!!!

Quote from: jeff37923;279579I'm pretty vitrioled out over 4E. The game just doesn't work for me and there are a hardcore group of 4E Zealots who want to hang me and everyone else who doesn't enjoy 4E for our game preferences.

Seriously... I think that the rabid 4e fans have surpassed the die hard Palladium fanbois in fervor.