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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Drohem on March 09, 2010, 02:36:26 PM

Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Drohem on March 09, 2010, 02:36:26 PM
I am running a PbP game of the TSR super-module T1-4: The Temple of Elemental Evil over on RPoL using the 3.5 D&D rules set.  I am converting an encounter with giant rats and, much to my surprise, it seems there's no giant rat in the 3.5 D&D Monster Manual, MM2, MM3, or MM4.  Did I just miss it somewhere in those books?  Is there some other WotC product, or 3rd party product, that has the giant rat?

Yes, converting the monster is easy and not the issue.  I am just mildly surprised that this classic D&D monster wasn't brought into WotC's 3.x version of D&D.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: One Horse Town on March 09, 2010, 02:44:36 PM
I think you need to look under Dire Animals (IIRC).
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Thanlis on March 09, 2010, 02:45:12 PM
Quote from: Drohem;365827I am running a PbP game of the TSR super-module T1-4: The Temple of Elemental Evil over on RPoL using the 3.5 D&D rules set.  I am converting an encounter with giant rats and, much to my surprise, it seems there's no giant rat in the 3.5 D&D Monster Manual, MM2, MM3, or MM4.  Did I just miss it somewhere in those books?  Is there some other WotC product, or 3rd party product, that has the giant rat?

Yes, converting the monster is easy and not the issue.  I am just mildly surprised that this classic D&D monster wasn't brought into WotC's 3.x version of D&D.

Look under dire rat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direrat.htm).
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Drohem on March 09, 2010, 02:47:18 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;365833I think you need to look under Dire Animals (IIRC).

This is a great moment for a Homerism- D'oh!

Gratzie! :)
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Ian Absentia on March 09, 2010, 06:23:42 PM
One of my favorite moments from my early, misbegotten days of 1e AD&D:

   GM: Okay, in the room you find a giant rat trap.
Player: Wait...is that a giant rat-trap, for a trap for giant rats?
GM: ...They're the same thing, dumbass!

!i!

(P.S. I need to check -- are there rules for dire horses?)
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Drohem on March 09, 2010, 06:41:06 PM
Quote from: Ian Absentia;365873One of my favorite moments from my early, misbegotten days of 1e AD&D:

   GM: Okay, in the room you find a giant rat trap.
Player: Wait...is that a giant rat-trap, for a trap for giant rats?
GM: ...They're the same thing, dumbass!

!i!

(P.S. I need to check -- are there rules for dire horses?)

Hehehe..:)

Yes, the Dire Horse is in the Monster Manual II book by WotC.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: RPGPundit on March 10, 2010, 08:25:08 AM
It could have also been a giant rat-themed trap.

RPGPundit
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Ian Absentia on March 10, 2010, 01:16:40 PM
You know, the semantics of the phrase "giant rat trap" have returned to haunt me many times over the years.  It could have been a giant trap to catch many normal rats, or even just a single, enormous trap intended to catch just one small rat.  It could even have been a very, very small trap that is, none the less, intended to catch a giant rat.  I hadn't considered the possibility that it might have been a trap for humanoids, but decorated to look like a giant rat, or simply decorated to evoke the thought of giant rats.

The possibilities are endless!

!i!
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Narf the Mouse on March 11, 2010, 12:43:10 AM
Or a trap filled with giant rats.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Ian Absentia on March 11, 2010, 02:23:24 AM
Or even a giant trap filled with ordinary rats.

The mind boggles.

!i!
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Imperator on March 11, 2010, 02:56:34 AM
When I saw the thread title I read [3.X D&D] No Giant Rants?

All these edition wars are affecting me.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Hairfoot on March 11, 2010, 07:43:13 AM
You need to gain a few levels before taking on dire rants.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Narf the Mouse on March 11, 2010, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: Hairfoot;366276You need to gain a few levels before taking on dire rants.
Also, many of the usual tactics, such as flaming oil, caltrops and focusing your efforts on one enemy at a time, just makes the Giant Rant more powerful.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Garnfellow on March 11, 2010, 04:27:05 PM
On a more serious note, converting giant rats on a one-to-one basis to dire rats may cause problems for low level parties.

An individual dire rat, while weak, is much tougher in 3e than one giant rat in AD&D. (And most AD&D giant rat encounters tended to have large numbers of those buggers.)

For some conversions you might look at using the 3.5e rat swarm instead of dire rats.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Drohem on March 11, 2010, 04:41:32 PM
Quote from: Garnfellow;366403On a more serious note, converting giant rats on a one-to-one basis to dire rats may cause problems for low level parties.

An individual dire rat, while weak, is much tougher in 3e than one giant rat in AD&D. (And most AD&D giant rat encounters tended to have large numbers of those buggers.)

For some conversions you might look at using the 3.5e rat swarm instead of dire rats.

Yeah, I'm tweaking them a bit.  Good advice, thank you. :)
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Werekoala on March 11, 2010, 04:44:49 PM
Isn't "dire" just a template anyway? And in 3e Monster Manual, rats and such are in the back under "vermin". I never really got into 3.5 so that may be one of the things they changed.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Drohem on March 11, 2010, 05:16:51 PM
Quote from: Werekoala;366411Isn't "dire" just a template anyway? And in 3e Monster Manual, rats and such are in the back under "vermin". I never really got into 3.5 so that may be one of the things they changed.

Yes, a 'dire' animal is like a normal animal on steroids.  

Dire Rat (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/monstersDitoDo.html#dire-rat)

Rat (Animal) (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/monstersAnimal.html#rat)

I'm going to scale down the dire rats' disease, damage, and hit points.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Ian Absentia on March 11, 2010, 05:19:44 PM
Can one play a dire human?

!i!
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Drohem on March 11, 2010, 05:22:44 PM
Quote from: Ian Absentia;366422Can one play a dire human?

In 3.x D&D, humans are not classified as animals, but, rather, they are classified as humanoids.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Ian Absentia on March 11, 2010, 06:17:42 PM
I guess what I was asking was for clarification whether the "dire" classification was ever published a template or not.  I don't see it as a template (à la Celestial or Vampire, etc.) in the back of the 3.0 Monster Manual.

!i!
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Grymbok on March 11, 2010, 07:18:22 PM
Quote from: Ian Absentia;365873One of my favorite moments from my early, misbegotten days of 1e AD&D:

   GM: Okay, in the room you find a giant rat trap.
Player: Wait...is that a giant rat-trap, for a trap for giant rats?
GM: ...They're the same thing, dumbass!

!i!

(P.S. I need to check -- are there rules for dire horses?)

I remember in one of our 1e games we encountered a baby Giant, which generated a debate on how that might differ from a giant baby.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Drohem on March 12, 2010, 01:51:07 AM
Quote from: Ian Absentia;366431I guess what I was asking was for clarification whether the "dire" classification was ever published a template or not.  I don't see it as a template (à la Celestial or Vampire, etc.) in the back of the 3.0 Monster Manual.

Oh, sorry.  No, it's not a template like ghost or vampire that can be layered over something.  It is just another entry in the Monster Manual, with several types outlined.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Narf the Mouse on March 12, 2010, 02:22:48 AM
...Dire Humans sounds both silly and awesome. I see something like a Half-Orc, only without the Orc.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Ian Absentia on March 12, 2010, 12:14:16 PM
If push comes to shove, I suppose a "dire human" is probably an ogre.  Silly applications aside, it's curious that a "Dire" template was never created.

!i!
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Narf the Mouse on March 12, 2010, 03:00:57 PM
Quote from: Ian Absentia;366635If push comes to shove, I suppose a "dire human" is probably an ogre.  Silly applications aside, it's curious that a "Dire" template was never created.

!i!
That makes a wacky sort of sense.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: winkingbishop on March 12, 2010, 03:32:14 PM
Quote from: Ian Absentia;366635If push comes to shove, I suppose a "dire human" is probably an ogre.  Silly applications aside, it's curious that a "Dire" template was never created.

!i!

Sasquatch.
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Narf the Mouse on March 12, 2010, 04:00:10 PM
Quote from: winkingbishop;366735Sasquatch.
No, that's a Dire Dwarf. All the hair, you see...
Title: [3.x D&D] No Giant Rats?
Post by: Werekoala on March 12, 2010, 04:05:25 PM
Reminds me of the Robot Chicken bit about "Attack of the Giant Midget".

He was normal human sized.