Treantmonk's temple has a video about the 2024 PHB getting major changes.  So far it looks like WOTC really has a mess on their hands.

Glad I have no interest in official D&D anymore:

What's the mess? It seems like they are addressing issues. Maybe they make it better, maybe they make it worse, but I'm not really seeing what they're doing as being all that big of a thing.

There is no mess. Love almost all the tweaks they've made so far. So does Treantmonk by the way. I think GhostNinja is just looking at the clickbait headline Treantmonk put in, despite the actual video describing it repeatedly as "a coat of polish" and this entire video is just Treantmonk making his personal recommendations for what to change.

It should have major changes as the first new edition in a decade.   I'd hope they'd have learned something since D&D Next finished though obviously their past few years worth of products would indicate a regression admittedly.   I always suspected their focus on it being ostensibly the "same" edition was a response to the full force of the OGL debacle they caused due to their own greed.

It's gonna be more 5.5 than 6e with revisions not real change. Plus it'll all be mostly digital. What's curious is BG3 is very successful with zero "monetization" but Hasbro wants subscriptions and micro-transactions for OneDnD? What kind of dummy would pay to play WotC's version of BG3? If you could get the Rules Cyclopedia for free why would you give WotC a penny for their trash?

Quote from: RNGm on March 12, 2024, 09:54:59 PM
It should have major changes as the first new edition in a decade.   I'd hope they'd have learned something since D&D Next finished though obviously their past few years worth of products would indicate a regression admittedly.   I always suspected their focus on it being ostensibly the "same" edition was a response to the full force of the OGL debacle they caused due to their own greed.

It really doesn't have major changes. It's compatible with the last 10 years, for better or worse. All they did was fix some things, and add a few more things.

I swear y'all look at a headline these days, draw a conclusion from that like a sucker, and then go off about it. The video isn't even about major changes, it was a SUGGESTION video from Treantmonk about what HE WANTS changed. I am not even sure anyone in this thread watched the video.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 13, 2024, 01:07:46 AM

Quote from: RNGm on March 12, 2024, 09:54:59 PM
It should have major changes as the first new edition in a decade.   I'd hope they'd have learned something since D&D Next finished though obviously their past few years worth of products would indicate a regression admittedly.   I always suspected their focus on it being ostensibly the "same" edition was a response to the full force of the OGL debacle they caused due to their own greed.

It really doesn't have major changes. It's compatible with the last 10 years, for better or worse. All they did was fix some things, and add a few more things.

I swear y'all look at a headline these days, draw a conclusion from that like a sucker, and then go off about it. The video isn't even about major changes, it was a SUGGESTION video from Treantmonk about what HE WANTS changed. I am not even sure anyone in this thread watched the video.

OK, I watched the video now, and yeah, the narrator Treantmonk seems pretty enthused about the 6E changes. The video is about more things he wants changed, but most of them are minor tweaks and clarifications.

I haven't been following most of the playtest material after initially looking at the first few. I don't care to speculate at this point. It'll come out and I'll hear about the real thing then.

Well they are essentially getting rid of subraces because its racist and the concept of half-elf and half-orc are really problematic (I'm telling my niece she has to get rid of my half-Korean grand nieces or Jeremy Crawford is going to go back to pillow biting and cry).  Race is going to be meaningless and they are turning the game into a power gamers paradise, which is going to fucking annoy DM's as well.  So far they've been increasing player abilities in their hand out and its fucking gross frankly.  Listening to a guy essentially become the quintessential faggot stereotype state with a straight face "the dwarfiest of dwarfs and the elfiest of elfs" doesn't give me much enthusiasm about the games supposed next edition.  It looks like it will an an abortion with a side of hemorrhoids. 

Everything I've seen in 6E has led me to believe they are boosting player power and catering to the power gamer.  I don't want to deal with that shit.  They haven't said a god damn thing about bonded accuracy and they fucking need to because bounded accuracy is killing the game.  Having a wizard have the same chance to hit as a fighter is retarded, there is no way to justify that ability points are the difference.  Weapon specialization for melee classes and base bonus to hit needs to come back as does increased AC and decreased hit points.  I'd rather have shorter combat and less math than longer combat and more math.  And oh gawd, do they need to redo CR calculations, AC, HP and damage output and put out solid rules for assigning CR to custom monsters.

I'll wait and see what they come up with, but the likelihood of me giving WotC a dime is the same likelihood of Hasbro turning a profit in 2024.

I am not their target audience anyway. Between Wotc going woke and implementing change for Woke sake and mostly tired of the edition train I will pass. Buy a few more books for 5E and that is it. I just can't justify at 50 years old, married and with bills to pay to buy the same house with a fresh cost of paint let alone a brand new house. A core set can cost the amount I can spend on groceries and gassing up the car. I m not poor yet even if I won the lottery when is it ever enough.

Players are free to join my 5E game as is if I ever run it or they can go elsewhere.

Quote from: Abraxus on March 13, 2024, 08:22:06 AM
I am not their target audience anyway. Between Wotc going woke and implementing change for Woke sake and mostly tired of the edition train I will pass. Buy a few more books for 5E and that is it. I just can't justify at 50 years old, married and with bills to pay to buy the same house with a fresh cost of paint let alone a brand new house. A core set can cost the amount I can spend on groceries and gassing up the car. I m not poor yet even if I won the lottery when is it ever enough.

Players are free to join my 5E game as is if I ever run it or they can go elsewhere.

Yep. I already have 5E and anything I didn't like is already house ruled. What WOTC thinks needs cleanup and polishing and/or changing is rarely what I think needs it so I just don't see the need to buy a core set all over again.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 13, 2024, 04:04:37 AM
Well they are essentially getting rid of subraces because its racist and the concept of half-elf and half-orc are really problematic (I'm telling my niece she has to get rid of my half-Korean grand nieces or Jeremy Crawford is going to go back to pillow biting and cry).  Race is going to be meaningless and they are turning the game into a power gamers paradise, which is going to fucking annoy DM's as well.  So far they've been increasing player abilities in their hand out and its fucking gross frankly.  Listening to a guy essentially become the quintessential faggot stereotype state with a straight face "the dwarfiest of dwarfs and the elfiest of elfs" doesn't give me much enthusiasm about the games supposed next edition.  It looks like it will an an abortion with a side of hemorrhoids. 

Everything I've seen in 6E has led me to believe they are boosting player power and catering to the power gamer.  I don't want to deal with that shit.  They haven't said a god damn thing about bonded accuracy and they fucking need to because bounded accuracy is killing the game.  Having a wizard have the same chance to hit as a fighter is retarded, there is no way to justify that ability points are the difference.  Weapon specialization for melee classes and base bonus to hit needs to come back as does increased AC and decreased hit points.  I'd rather have shorter combat and less math than longer combat and more math.  And oh gawd, do they need to redo CR calculations, AC, HP and damage output and put out solid rules for assigning CR to custom monsters.

I'll wait and see what they come up with, but the likelihood of me giving WotC a dime is the same likelihood of Hasbro turning a profit in 2024.

They are not getting rid of subraces, just a small number of them that few people seemed to be using. Elves for example still have subraces, but I think Halflings will not though the older subraces will remain compatible with games using the newer version of the rules.

Half-orc is now just orc. Half-elf in theory is just a new version of elf, but they got pushback on that so it remains unclear if that will stick.

Race is not meaningless they just changed the name.

The "turning the game into a powergame fantasy" is just bunk. They turned DOWN some spellcaster stuff, and turned UP some non-caster stuff. The power of PCs is roughly the same still, it's just that casters are not quite as overpowered as before, and non-casters not quite as underpowered as before, and most of those changes were about higher levels.

The most noteworthy change I can think of is they gave non-casters some special stuff they can do with particular weapons they specialize in - which smacks more of 2e than anything to me. And they fixed Monks.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on March 13, 2024, 09:02:11 AM
Yep. I already have 5E and anything I didn't like is already house ruled. What WOTC thinks needs cleanup and polishing and/or changing is rarely what I think needs it so I just don't see the need to buy a core set all over again.

I have 5e as well but I am working towards getting my group playing a different system because 5e is basically like playing a tabletop mmorpg where killing characters is almost impossible and it feels like I am running a video game.  No interest in a new version and WOTC won't get another dime from me.

I liked 5e at the beginning but they added so much crap to it that the system is just too broken for me to deal with.  I don't want to house rule it because making sure it works was the designers job, not mine.

Luckily there are better fantasy rpgs out there .  I run Old School Essentials and that feels like D&D, 5e, not so much.  5e is just D&D in name only.

Quote from: Theory of Games on March 12, 2024, 10:57:24 PM
It's gonna be more 5.5 than 6e with revisions not real change. Plus it'll all be mostly digital. What's curious is BG3 is very successful with zero "monetization" but Hasbro wants subscriptions and micro-transactions for OneDnD? What kind of dummy would pay to play WotC's version of BG3? If you could get the Rules Cyclopedia for free why would you give WotC a penny for their trash?

Exactly, or play one of the many great OSR games out there that actually feel like D&D did back in the beginning.  People don't need D&D, they just not be shown that there are other options out there.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 13, 2024, 09:27:28 AM
And they fixed Monks.

Now I doubt.

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 13, 2024, 12:34:21 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 13, 2024, 09:27:28 AM
And they fixed Monks.

Now I doubt.

Fair. Right now, they overpowered monks. They still need to bring them back down a tad (but that final change will be relatively minor). But the fixes so far are a vast improvement on what came before.

I'd post some videos, but the changes to the monk were so extensive (the only class I'd say that got extensive changes) that they're all 50 minutes or more in length. Like this one: