Yes I'm ranting. Sue me.
I've been playing this for a good month or so and have come to the conclusion that it is equal parts crap game design and insidious deliberate money grabbing.
The drop rates for loot are so low as to be laughable (kill 10 satyrs to get a single horn which they ALL have).
The game respawns mobs while youre standing there fighting the next lot!
The difficulty levels of quests are so disparate as to be impossible to read.
The draw-in rate is so slow that you will aggro stuff before you see it.
Dying in the game is handled appallingly in every conceivable way; I for one cannot for the life of me understand what the point of resurrection sickness actually is in a non-competitive game.
I just cannot continue with the sheer amount of crap in this game.
I'm so glad I didn't shill the cash to play it, then.
and yet here I am still struggling with the stupid thing.
It really is poor though.
MMORPGs don't do simulation. For various reasons, it just doesn't work out. The artificial intelligence of most games are laughable by Wizardry I standards. WoW is designed in a way that most people can grab almost all concepts, thus understanding the game almost like a tabletop RPG or strategy game.
Experiencing a believable world all alone? Doesn't pay.
believable isn't what I'm looking for. Sensible is.
There are also other issues that spring to mind: the targetting system which doesn't work, the mob density that means just getting back tobase to turn in a quest becomes a nightmare and fraught journey into tedium and conflict, and the sheer boredom of traipsing around with directions that would make Alain Quartermain scratch his head.
Ah, you don't care about the details. Nevermind, from the short time I tried to enjoy that, I've learned one thing: WoW is the modern from of the anarcho-syndicalist farmers from Holy Grail: Every designer gets his shot for a few weeks between patches. Log in, and all you've known might've changed...
(Honestly, that's just bad design. Or the total lack thereof)
It's not that i don't care about the details per se, I just think they've made some startlingly silly and insidious choices.
Have ya tried Lord of the Rings? :) I'm an Ex-WoWer who made the switch. I like it better, especially if you're more interested in a casual and social experience, neither of which exists in the l33t ub3r kiddeez world of WoW.
Which is rather interesting. LotR is basically a carbon-copy of WoW, especially compared to other possible inspirations like EverQuest, Asheron's Call etc.
The classes are done a bit differently, but all the basic roles are there. Even the rest of the mechanics is eerily close to the market leader.
But for some kind of reason, gameplay is a bit more mature and yes, actual role-playing is bound to occur. This probably comes from the background, and the fact that the kiddies stay at WoW doesn't really hurt either.
The quests are as crappy as the ones done in the world of Azeroth, but due to better descriptions and better scenarios, you don't mind as much.
But let my inner Cato just say this: Hobbits still suck.
Yes, well, to each their own. :)
Yes, there are alot of similarities to Wow, but they're mechanical. The look and feel is nothing like it, and yes, it does attract the more "mature" crowd. My Kinship (Guild) is majorty 30+, with some in the 40s and 50s. Lots of families play - husband/wife/kids, boyfriend/girlfriend, etc. Everyone helpful and not afraid to ask for help when they need it, and shares materials and loot freely. People stay in the Prancing Pony for hours on end just chatting and RPing. Its a good gig! Not as funas SWG was back when crafting was a true PROFESSION (I played that game for days at a time without drawing a weapon once), but it'll do until something better comes along.
That's the interesting part, I think. Take almost the same engine, but just change the look-and-feel, add some merchandise, and you've got a much more mature game.
Wonder how that will work out for the upcoming Conan game...
Don't know a thing about Conan (the game) but I keep hearing it mentioned. What's so special about it aside from the setting?
Well, the lessons of LotR vs. WoW certainly would apply to Conan. The Hyborian Age is a rather evocative setting, I'd say. No chance of mile-wide shoulder pads and purple buildings there. We'll get dark cults, cities full of debauchery and backstabbing harlots.
On the other hand, they're trying to introduce some new mechanics. This will either make this fail or the best thing since E criticals. There's full collision detection, i.e. characters who won't run through each other and swords that actually hurt the part they're hitting. Formation combat, players founding villages and having sieges, tavern brawls (level-independent PvP) and even some decent thievery going on. And if I remember correctly, you're doing your first 10 or 20 levels on your own, so you'll enter the game with some basic knowledge how to play. Worked fine for LotR.
High hopes, with the definite possibility of a big let-down, if they come up with buggy and/or easily exploitable mechanisms.
Eh, I'm about two months in and still enjoying WoW. I was a huge fan of the Warcraft series, though, so the look doesn't bug me. And for the most part I just don't bother with "collect x body parts" quests - they're exercises in frustration. "Kill X of Y" is about as much as I'll do - at least then a kill's a kill, and you don't have the "My God, these Murlocs exist without heads!" syndrome.
Depends, though. If I'm going to be in a given area for a while and there'll be incidental kills, collect-body-parts-or-whatever quests aren't quite so bad.
I've also had remarkably good experiences with roleplaying in WoW, though I've played on RP servers (not that that makes MUCH of a difference). And Hordeside seems better than Alliance for RP'ing, for whatever reason.
Quote from: ErstwhileEh, I'm about two months in and still enjoying WoW. I was a huge fan of the Warcraft series, though, so the look doesn't bug me. And for the most part I just don't bother with "collect x body parts" quests - they're exercises in frustration. "Kill X of Y" is about as much as I'll do - at least then a kill's a kill, and you don't have the "My God, these Murlocs exist without heads!" syndrome.
Depends, though. If I'm going to be in a given area for a while and there'll be incidental kills, collect-body-parts-or-whatever quests aren't quite so bad.
I've also had remarkably good experiences with roleplaying in WoW, though I've played on RP servers (not that that makes MUCH of a difference). And Hordeside seems better than Alliance for RP'ing, for whatever reason.
If youre going to ignore the collect x drops from y kills then you are going to be on a slow grind my friend! Not that I blame you, the drop rate is so low it could win limbo contests in flatland.
I've come to the conclusion that the game is a mixture of achievement and tedium. Both in extremis.
Quote from: WerekoalaYes, well, to each their own. :)
Yes, there are alot of similarities to Wow, but they're mechanical. The look and feel is nothing like it, and yes, it does attract the more "mature" crowd. My Kinship (Guild) is majorty 30+, with some in the 40s and 50s. Lots of families play - husband/wife/kids, boyfriend/girlfriend, etc. Everyone helpful and not afraid to ask for help when they need it, and shares materials and loot freely. People stay in the Prancing Pony for hours on end just chatting and RPing. Its a good gig! Not as funas SWG was back when crafting was a true PROFESSION (I played that game for days at a time without drawing a weapon once), but it'll do until something better comes along.
SWG did a lot of things that WoW could learn from. But crafting wasn't one of them. It was boring, tedious and slooooooooooooooooooooooow.
I regretted choosing a mon cal artisan very quickly, especailly as everyone i knew who also played was rocketing ahead of me through picking combat classes and thus getting experience and having more fun.
I can't run LotR otherwise I would haveplayed it. I would definitely prefer a more discerning peer group (some of the names players and guilds choose make me wince). Even though I will never know i'd definitely prefer playing with people more like me rather than little Johnny Shoutsalot from Texas or Jonas Churchburner from Nordic Death Metal country. :D
Things WoW would need to do to make me play it:
- Twitch Gameplay - There is absolutely none in this game. I actually like to PLAY videogames.
- Better Grouping Mechanics - Like in City of Heroes/Villians. Easy to group, easy to find your friends.
- Visual Credibility - Why don't my charcters do what they look like. If a Tauren's running around swinging a Maul and it hits something, it should at least go flying...or something.
- No Monthly Fee - I'd rather have Bi-Annual optional expansions.
I don't like WoW and for the most part I don't like MMORPG's (EvE and CoV are ones I would play...except for that monthly fee thing).
That's all I got for ya:)
Dude, if you think there's no twitch in WoW you clearly have never played a Rogue, and certainly not in PvP.
PvP would be enjoyable were it not so utterly exploited and exploitable. The fact that people can buy money offline and enchant their ridiculous ubergear (which you can easily get if you are prepared to run many instances endlessly - which seems contrary to the way the game is meant to be played) beyond what they should really be able to equip means that if you don't keep up with the jones' you ain't gonna have fun!
Quote from: KrakaJakThings WoW would need to do to make me play it:
- Twitch Gameplay - There is absolutely none in this game. I actually like to PLAY videogames.
- Better Grouping Mechanics - Like in City of Heroes/Villians. Easy to group, easy to find your friends.
- Visual Credibility - Why don't my charcters do what they look like. If a Tauren's running around swinging a Maul and it hits something, it should at least go flying...or something.
- No Monthly Fee - I'd rather have Bi-Annual optional expansions.
I don't like WoW and for the most part I don't like MMORPG's (EvE and CoV are ones I would play...except for that monthly fee thing).
That's all I got for ya:)
Blizzard could easily reduce the cost of the game; it's not like it isn't profitable!
I find them rather cynical to be honest; there area great many things that IMO the game desperately needs to have fixed (not least of all the dire targetting system).
Quote from: signoftheserpentSWG did a lot of things that WoW could learn from. But crafting wasn't one of them. It was boring, tedious and slooooooooooooooooooooooow.
I regretted choosing a mon cal artisan very quickly, especailly as everyone i knew who also played was rocketing ahead of me through picking combat classes and thus getting experience and having more fun.
Did you play SWG pre-CU? Back when crafting was fun and challenging and profitable - or only lately when the entire game sucks ass?
Quote from: WerekoalaDid you play SWG pre-CU? Back when crafting was fun and challenging and profitable - or only lately when the entire game sucks ass?
Goddamn did they ever screw the pooch with that game.
I mean, before, it was definitely an acquired taste and a lot of people didn't like it, but at least it did something unique.
Now it's just, well, even the worst Engrish free Korean MMO manages to stand heads above that game . . .
Quote from: J ArcaneDude, if you think there's no twitch in WoW you clearly have never played a Rogue, and certainly not in PvP.
I have...and there still isn't any twitch.
If you think there's twitch in WoW, go play Mario Brothers.
Quote from: KrakaJakI have...and there still isn't any twitch.
If you think there's twitch in WoW, go play Mario Brothers.
You were playing it wrong then. There's more twitch to playing a Rogue well than there is in any of the Diablo games put together, and more timing issues involved than most FPS games.
The ones who think there's no twitch element to WoW are the ones who spend the most time dying in PvP to hyperdextrous 12 year old Korean boys.
Dudes! If you want some "twitch" gameplay, try "Rune: Halls of Valhalla". I only embrace the multiplayer aspect. It's an old game with a much smaller player base, but it's great. It's really not an rpg though, unless you count the excessive amount of chatting going on in the game. Basically, you run around these various villages, dungeons, arenas, etc., and kick your opponents' asses with hammers, swords, axes, etc., while decimating each other with magical runes. I love it! :hehe:
It can be played in either first-person or third-person. I fight in third-person, as I'm more effective that way. This is the main site:
//www.runegame.com
There are tons of Rune clans out there, with players in the USA, South America, Poland, Germany, Finland, etc. Again though, I must stress, there's a very limited number of dedicated servers running at any one time. :(
It's still a great game though. :keke:
Quote from: WerekoalaDid you play SWG pre-CU? Back when crafting was fun and challenging and profitable - or only lately when the entire game sucks ass?
Probably since I don't recall what CU is, I played prejump to lightspeed and crafting was awful. I think the economy probably worked better in SWG, but the grind-hell was just that.
Quote from: KrakaJakI have...and there still isn't any twitch.
If you think there's twitch in WoW, go play Mario Brothers.
or played against a rogue, since you know exactly what they are going to try.
Problem is twitch gameplay doesn't work with a mouse and keys.
Quote from: signoftheserpentProblem is twitch gameplay doesn't work with a mouse and keys.
Or when one guy's running WOW on a system that three years old with a half-gig of RAM and the other uses the new hotness with four times as much RAM, far better processors--CPU proper and one for the video card--and that's not accounting for keybinds, macros, connection speed or other variables that make true FPS-style twitch gameplay impractical for WOW.
Hey wait that's me in the corner losing my patience...wjth a system that's three years old with half a gig of RAM!
Ah well.
Anyways I play Guild Wars now, which I have to say is a far superior product.
All MMOs suck! And yet I can't help liking them... :)
I bet this had been said thousand of times, but i miss EQ1! That game was so cool, everything was huge, the player base was great and we didn't have gold sellers everywhere! ahhh the good times :)
Quote from: shadowpriestI bet this had been said thousand of times, but i miss EQ1! That game was so cool, everything was huge, the player base was great and we didn't have gold sellers everywhere! ahhh the good times :)
Heh heh heh.
No goldsellers. That's rich. Dude, there's been gold sellers by the truckload since Ultima Online. There's not a game out there that lacks them, not a one.
maybe but WoW seems to allow itself to be ruined by it. A shame.
Bullshit. Blizzard bans thousands of accounts on a regular basis, and has shut down whole websites and companies in offense against goldselling. There's not a single MMO company in the industry that goes to as much effort as Blizzard. Most of them just gave up and became gold sellers instead.
It's just that it's an incredibly lucrative market, and there's a metric fuckton of gold farmers out there, making it impossible to thwart them 100% of the time even with the best efforts.
It's like spam. You can't escape it. It simply is, whether anyone wants it to be or not.
Quote from: J ArcaneHeh heh heh.
No goldsellers. That's rich. Dude, there's been gold sellers by the truckload since Ultima Online. There's not a game out there that lacks them, not a one.
That's true. Square-Enix has gone out of their way to destroy gil sellers, which has been a double-edged sword for the game economy. They're still there, but they keep getting banned.
There were literally no gold sellers in EQ1 if you compare it to today mmorpgs. That's because there were at that time no big companies selling EQ plats for real money, the farmers business was still in the stone age. Yeah there might have been ways to buy plats, from other players, but nothing well organized like today resellers crap.
Most people i was playing with, from 99 to 03, were not even aware that you could buy plats online. Today, if you don't buy money in an online rpg, you fall behind and can't keep up with other players.
Quote from: signoftheserpentAnyways I play Guild Wars now, which I have to say is a far superior product.
I was just about to suggest Guild Wars to you.
I tend to forgive some of Guild Wars' shortcomings due to the fact that there's no monthly fee, ever. I buy a game once and I get a great game to play with my homies (like we used to do with Diablo II).
-=Grim=-
actually i've gone right off GW!
the reliance on large groups (usually ai) just ruins it for me. The hero/henchmen ai is so stupid and flawed i just tore my hair out.
But in the end it's just boring. It really is just a series of rather unengaging fights.
I think, on balance, WoW is probably better in the long term. Shame that it's so expensive. I was even going to start playing again but they refused to give me back the month i paid for but didn't use a while back (miserable gits - wouldn't cost them anything!)
Unfortuantely i've got a great big game sized hole that i can't fill. I have no desire to play the rts's that fill my meager collection.