Hi Guys,
Will full dive VR cause the real world to be abandoned where everybody stays home and uses full dive VR instead of engaging with the real world and having in person interactions.
Or will people still want to engage with the real world and travel either within their own cities or travel overseas regardless of how immersive VR becomes?
I'm not talking about the near future, in talking about like about 20 years later when AGI comes out and we don't need to work.
Quote from: Eric333 on October 26, 2023, 09:02:36 PM
Hi Guys,
Will full dive VR cause the real world to be abandoned where everybody stays home and uses full dive VR instead of engaging with the real world and having in person interactions.
Or will people still want to engage with the real world and travel either within their own cities or travel overseas regardless of how immersive VR becomes?
I'm not talking about the near future, in talking about like about 20 years later when AGI comes out and we don't need to work.
Someone has to make the Hot Pockets.
Assuming a future where most work is indeed not done by humans, but machines - which will not happen in 20 years, more like 100-200, if ever, but nvm - I would actually expect people to spend more time outside and traveling, not less.
The reason simply being that it's good for us to be outside in nature or to travel - but it also takes a significant chunk of time, which in the current world where you need to be very efficient with your work, hobby, family, etc time is just not something many manage to pull off and other things tend to just have higher priority for people.
Personal interactions or not is more an extrovert vs introvert thing, I don't think it has much to do with this.
As a good hint for this, I'd say just look at what pensioners are doing (at least where I've lived, in Germany and Finland and seen elsewhere across Europe):
They got nothing but time, and in case they also have sufficient income they do nothing but traveling, wandering, going to cafés, restaurants, visit folk, and so on - all the stuff they clearly wanted to do but never really had the time for. Even those I know that only have rather limited income still do as much traveling and meeting people as they can afford.
I'm fairly certain that if that amount of free time was available to the same people earlier in their life, they'd do pretty much the same, just earlier - and maybe with a bit less hurry to get as much as possible in before the time is up.
A theoretical utopia where people would no longer have to work on jobs they aren't passionate for, I'd assume people would just follow their passions, whatever they might be.
So you'd probably see a few that would indeed become digital beings (as much as technically possible), but it wouldn't be the only thing you'd see.
Quote from: Eric333 on October 26, 2023, 09:02:36 PM
Hi Guys,
Will full dive VR cause the real world to be abandoned where everybody stays home and uses full dive VR instead of engaging with the real world and having in person interactions.
Or will people still want to engage with the real world and travel either within their own cities or travel overseas regardless of how immersive VR becomes?
I'm not talking about the near future, in talking about like about 20 years later when AGI comes out and we don't need to work.
Ask me in 20 years when the AGI is still too inept to draw proper fingers in art.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 30, 2023, 09:02:41 AM
Quote from: Eric333 on October 26, 2023, 09:02:36 PM
Hi Guys,
Will full dive VR cause the real world to be abandoned where everybody stays home and uses full dive VR instead of engaging with the real world and having in person interactions.
Or will people still want to engage with the real world and travel either within their own cities or travel overseas regardless of how immersive VR becomes?
I'm not talking about the near future, in talking about like about 20 years later when AGI comes out and we don't need to work.
Ask me in 20 years when the AGI is still too inept to draw proper fingers in art.
To be fair, I've seen "professional" artists who can't get fingers right.
(https://i.pinimg.com/1200x/5b/2e/ed/5b2eedf5eaf31fd2f797c08bc7c5e5e7.jpg)
If you're talking full simsense experience, where they could toss you in a nutrient pod and you could live in a Matrix-like creation where you were whatever you wanted to be, I could see people doing it. Even permanently.
We get to a point where most people don't work, they'll do what people who don't have to work do now...find every way to rub it in the faces of those who do that they can think of.
If it does, then it will exacerbate the climate crisis. Why care about the deteriorating Earth when you can live in VR?
I'm currently working on a tabletop setting where people use VR to distract themselves from the worsening climate crisis. And by worsening, I mean people have to wear protective gear to go outside.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on November 06, 2023, 08:37:36 AM
If it does, then it will exacerbate the climate crisis. Why care about the deteriorating Earth when you can live in VR?
I'm currently working on a tabletop setting where people use VR to distract themselves from the worsening climate crisis. And by worsening, I mean people have to wear protective gear to go outside.
Well, good luck. We've all seen how well people respond recently to games that preach at them... ::)
Quote from: Eirikrautha on November 06, 2023, 09:03:55 AM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on November 06, 2023, 08:37:36 AM
If it does, then it will exacerbate the climate crisis. Why care about the deteriorating Earth when you can live in VR?
I'm currently working on a tabletop setting where people use VR to distract themselves from the worsening climate crisis. And by worsening, I mean people have to wear protective gear to go outside.
Well, good luck. We've all seen how well people respond recently to games that preach at them... ::)
I'm not doing it to preach. I think a post-apocalyptic cyberpunk setting where people use VR to distract themselves from a dying planet is very relatable to a lot of people. "Oh no, a million people died of a plague! I wonder what's on TikTube?"
I'm a cynic who believes we're heading towards the Great Filter and we're all gonna die. So why not have fun with it?
Quote from: TheSHEEEP on October 30, 2023, 03:11:46 AM
Assuming a future where most work is indeed not done by humans, but machines - which will not happen in 20 years, more like 100-200, if ever, but nvm - I would actually expect people to spend more time outside and traveling, not less.
Considerig a nutcase faction over in the UK wants to make the movie ZPG real. I suspect we'll find travel and getting out eventually restricted. "For the environment!" of course.
Quote from: Eric333 on October 26, 2023, 09:02:36 PM
Will full dive VR cause the real world to be abandoned where everybody stays home and uses full dive VR instead of engaging with the real world and having in person interactions.
I'd expect it'd only be the 2% or so of the population who are currently addicts seeking oblivion through drugs and alcohol. Normal, mentally-healthy people want some degree of personal interaction and a fulfilling real-world life, even if they vary in how capable they are of achieving and maintaining it. But some people are just fuckups.
You'd have people pimping out their children so they could afford another couple of hours of VR.
If the tech is good enough that your brain does not know the difference between VR and real life, then I'd argue VR becomes reality. Except a reality where you can be and do whatever you want.
First you'd have to convince me that full-dive VR is even possible given the estimates of needing a hundred times the currently available processing power (an increase of two orders of magnitude as they say it) to even possibly reach achieve an AGI.
That means 100 times the power consumption (which is already a significant percentage of global power consumption) and 100 times all the rare-earths and other materials needed to build all the processors.
Because, in other related news, barring some quantum leap in computer technology, Moore's Law has nearly or is already at its expiration date. The circuits can't be made any smaller and still have electrons move through them. Basically, from here on out barring a few marginal improvements, the only way to get more processing is going to be building bigger.
Basically, the idea of readily available full VR and AGI (much less ASI) is basically a pipe dream of rich technocrats and oligarchs who dream of mass control over the masses and escaping their own inevitable deaths.
It's never going to viable for mass consumption (too expensive)... and certainly not while those same oligarchs are seeking to shut down the cheap reliable energy that those systems require.
Quote from: Chris24601 on March 03, 2024, 01:05:45 PMBecause, in other related news, barring some quantum leap in computer technology, Moore's Law has nearly or is already at its expiration date. The circuits can't be made any smaller and still have electrons move through them. Basically, from here on out barring a few marginal improvements, the only way to get more processing is going to be building bigger.
Theres also the problem that building so small makes the electronics highly vulnerable to cosmic ray impacts that can and do flip bits and cause unforeseen glitches. Rare it seems. But its going to happen.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on November 06, 2023, 08:37:36 AMIf it does, then it will exacerbate the climate crisis. Why care about the deteriorating Earth when you can live in VR?
I'm currently working on a tabletop setting where people use VR to distract themselves from the worsening climate crisis. And by worsening, I mean people have to wear protective gear to go outside.
You know you might be onto the next big science fiction novel.
Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on May 06, 2024, 01:29:51 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on November 06, 2023, 08:37:36 AMIf it does, then it will exacerbate the climate crisis. Why care about the deteriorating Earth when you can live in VR?
I'm currently working on a tabletop setting where people use VR to distract themselves from the worsening climate crisis. And by worsening, I mean people have to wear protective gear to go outside.
You know you might be onto the next big science fiction novel.
sorry for the late reply, I was on vacation.
Maybe. It's not originally my idea, I got from reading TSR's old Kromosome setting book. But I haven't seen any other book or game like it, so it still has novelty value in today's work of "all cyberpunk is a ripoff of Cyberpunk 2077."
Kromosome wasn't your typical cyberpunk setting. It was more interested in the relationship between man and the environment. It was bleak in the sense that Earth was barely inhabitable and million died constantly due to plagues, disasters, heat waves, ozone depletion, etc, traditional centralized nationstates have collapsed in favor of loosely aligned city states, family businesses, and criminal syndicates, but hopeful in the sense that technology (particularly biotechnology) was advancing enough to keep humanity just solvent enough. There was limited solar system colonization, but basically most spacers were on their own.
The premise is still timely, even three decades later.
Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on May 06, 2024, 01:29:51 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on November 06, 2023, 08:37:36 AMIf it does, then it will exacerbate the climate crisis. Why care about the deteriorating Earth when you can live in VR?
I'm currently working on a tabletop setting where people use VR to distract themselves from the worsening climate crisis. And by worsening, I mean people have to wear protective gear to go outside.
You know you might be onto the next big science fiction novel.
Someone did a short movie on that theme. VR/ARG to cover all the enviro and work problems. Theres a few others that explore ARG/VR used to just gloss over how bad things are.
Long long ago there was a short story series about a new technology that came to the fore instead of VR.
Recording and then being able to play back and experience dreams.
Forget who wrote it. But one story dealt with the inventor recruiting people who could dream clearly. Another dealt with a rival bootlegging sex dreams.