I figured I'd make a thread for this. If you're to contribute, I'd at least appreciate a source link or a screenshot or a reference. Even if you say "Some guy in the hobby shop was saying this", I'm not particularly bothered by it. Hey, sometimes a little rumor is fun to discuss or think about- even if it never comes to pass.
Genestealer Cults
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/09/40k-rumors-genestealer-cult-new-kits.html
Caveat/disclaimer: This is coming from Bell of Lost Souls, that has been 'wrong' or at least 'off' in the past... at least one thing, I believe, was a complete fabrication. Other places I've personally seen it discussed are in comments section and on forums. Overall, I'm a bit less concerned about 'source reliability' in this case and I can say based on trends- it's very likely this is indeed true. The models have been made already for the boxed Deathwatch: Overkill game. The Deathwatch Space Marines from the game were already released alongside the Codex: Deathwatch and other Deathwatch Minis for use in a DW Force. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume the same could be done with Tyranids. After all, the Tyranids now are not the most useful or flexible army and they can't ally for shit. Genestealer cults might be the key to adding a bit more flexibility to them. With any luck, we might even see Ymgarl genestealer upgrade kits (maybe because I think the Genestealers look stupid, it's wishful thinking). And with any luck, it'll have rules for using Imperial Guard units (A PDF) as part of the Cult and come with some goodie upgrades there.
GW/Forge World Committed to bringing back The Hobbit/Middle Earth sets.
[video=youtube;dpf9SmxB304]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpf9SmxB304[/youtube]
Update: Genestealer Cult Codex confirmed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8klnCoAEi0
Quote from: Crüesader;920365Update: Genestealer Cult Codex confirmed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8klnCoAEi0
*yawn* Big whoop
Quote from: Sommerjon;920416*yawn* Big whoop
Thank you for your outstanding contribution to the discussion at hand.
There's a discussion? I thought this thread was just cribnotes from Faeit 212 a week late.
Quote from: TristramEvans;920595There's a discussion? I thought this thread was just cribnotes from Faeit 212 a week late.
I thought you had me on 'ignore'. You were gloating about it a few months back like it was some kind of achievement that you couldn't handle your emotions.
So, I remember the 'hybrid' genestealers described in Rogue Trader 40k, but is the new Genestealer Cult codex a good thing? Are we excited or appalled?
Quote from: AaronBrown99;920601So, I remember the 'hybrid' genestealers described in Rogue Trader 40k, but is the new Genestealer Cult codex a good thing? Are we excited or appalled?
Hard to tell. Depends if they can use some Guard stuff, and exactly what they can use. Apparently, they can't ally with Tyranids they way you'd think. Either way, it's nice to see something getting attention that isn't 'Space Marines'.
I'm going to wait- the new supplement for Chaos was kind of a disappointment according the Chaos players. But then again, if Chaos players aren't complaining you need to send someone to make sure they're still alive.
I bought an Imperial Guard army box a few years ago, I wonder if they'd be useful with the new kill team game setup.
Quote from: AaronBrown99;920605I bought an Imperial Guard army box a few years ago, I wonder if they'd be useful with the new kill team game setup.
You can do that. I haven't opened the book and looked at it, but a lot of people are talking about how it's kinda fun. It's a great way to get into the hobby.
Quote from: Crüesader;920417Thank you for your outstanding contribution to the discussion at hand.
Your welcome.
Quote from: Crüesader;920596I thought you had me on 'ignore'. You were gloating about it a few months back like it was some kind of achievement that you couldn't handle your emotions.
Ignore doesn't mean I cant read your posts, it means I pick and chose on a daily basis how much stupid I want to expose myself to
I am very excited about the Genestealer Cults and thank you for posting about them!
However, I'm MORE excited about them for Necromunda and RPG stuff than as an army.
As an Army, it sounds like a hybrid IG/Tyranid force which might be a fun combo of shoot & claw.
Its a shame the whole non-Chaos mutant aspect of 40k never took off after the original Rogue Trader, but the Genestealer Cult is the best move in that direction.
40k Kill Teams with urban terrain vs. Genestealer Cults would kick ass.
Quote from: Spinachcat;920709I am very excited about the Genestealer Cults and thank you for posting about them!
However, I'm MORE excited about them for Necromunda and RPG stuff than as an army.
As an Army, it sounds like a hybrid IG/Tyranid force which might be a fun combo of shoot & claw.
Its a shame the whole non-Chaos mutant aspect of 40k never took off after the original Rogue Trader, but the Genestealer Cult is the best move in that direction.
40k Kill Teams with urban terrain vs. Genestealer Cults would kick ass.
GW has a habit of testing out things like this. They released one of the mini-games a while back and after that we got several more. Rumor has it there's a new boss at GW, and he's pretty much set on making the game accessible at a variety of levels for people to get into it. You have to admit, for a while the game seemed like it was going to take a thousand bucks and multiple hours to get into it. For the main game, yeah... it's still ridiculously overpriced. But at least with Kill Team, you have a starting point. You can stick with small team games and buy a box of models here and there and actually have something to play while you expand.
Quote from: TristramEvans;920702Ignore doesn't mean I cant read your posts, it means I pick and chose on a daily basis how much stupid I want to expose myself to
Nah, you said you used the ignore feature for the first time. As if it were a crowning achievement that you couldn't handle your emotions. It's okay, not everyone was taught life skills if they didn't have caring friends and family. I'm impressed you've made it this far, keep it up. Or don't, I don't really care. Your existence isn't really worth much.
Look, for a batch of folks that whine about 'not talking about games', I'd expect in an actual game thread for you to either contribute or piss off. 'Ignoring' someone doesn't mean you come in to attempt a thread derail just because you don't like the poster. I'm fine on or off your ignore list. But I would ask you to kindly respect a thread about gaming, and either offer some insight or just fuck off. Despite how disgusting of a subhuman I may think you are, I wouldn't disrespect a gaming thread because other players may find the information valuable.
Quote from: Sommerjon;920693Your welcome.
You're.* At least try not to look like a colossal fucking idiot if you're going to be snarky.
Quote from: Crüesader;920735You're.* At least try not to look like a colossal fucking idiot if you're going to be snarky.
Typo = colossal fucking idiot?
Sorry kid, but you have exactly one person, besides you, even remotely interested in this
discussion.
Quote from: Crüesader;920735Nah, you said you used the ignore feature for the first time.
No I didn't. But it is rather rare.
QuoteAs if it were a crowning achievement that you couldn't handle your emotions. It's okay, not everyone was taught life skills if they didn't have caring friends and family. I'm impressed you've made it this far, keep it up. Or don't, I don't really care. Your existence isn't really worth much.
I'm sorry you weren't taught life skills and don't have a caring family. I hope the internet tough guy act does something for you to alleviate the pain of being a lonely, fat and sad adolescent pretending to be a soldier. But I'm afraid it doesn't elicit the emotional response from me you seem to be desperate for.
Quote from: TristramEvans;920915I'm sorry you weren't taught life skills and don't have a caring family. I hope the internet tough guy act does something for you to alleviate the pain of being a lonely, fat and sad adolescent pretending to be a soldier. But I'm afraid it doesn't elicit the emotional response from me you seem to be desperate for.
I'm sorry you have to repeat what someone else has said to assert yourself. If you've nothing of value to contribute to the thread, go elsewhere. This is a thread about games, not where you can voice your insecurities.
There are other places you can re-use your pal's comments to make yourself feel better, but trying to derail a thread and get it shut down is in poor form, even for the forum tumor. Please contribute toward the topic at hand, or go elsewhere and play circle-jerk.
I am not derailing your 'contributions'. Do not derail mine, please.
Quote from: Sommerjon;920882Sorry kid, but you have exactly one person, besides you, even remotely interested in this discussion.
Actually,
two people. You certainly are challenged. But I'm sorry, I didn't specifically make this thread to appeal to you. If you weren't interested in it, you certainly took time out of your day to make a comment on it. If you've nothing of value to contribute to the thread, go elsewhere.
Just wake me up when Necromunda comes back and IF it's good.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;920926Just wake me up when Necromunda comes back and IF it's good.
Didn't they have Arbites back then? I'd love to run a squad of Not-Judge-Dredds.
But I can kinda help you scratch that itch:
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/gangwar
This forum post has a bit of things that might interest you: https://yaktribe.org/community/threads/alternative-necromunda-miniature-sources-image-heavy.15/
Right now the best you can do that is close to Necromunda is Kill-Team. And I don't know much about Necrumunda- it was around back when I had an interest the first time, but it kind of went away before I had a chance to look into it. Mordheim had my attention as well.
I can absolutely without hesitation recommend hunting down the original Necromunda and Mordheim books...or I'm sure they're somewhere online.
Both are akin to the Kill Team concept. 10-15 models per side, but your units gain XP, increase as RPG style PCs, can do an ongoing campaign, etc.
Beyond the core books, there were plenty of semi-official supplements too.
I was always surprised GW didn't repackage them both as boardgames.
Quote from: Spinachcat;920930I can absolutely without hesitation recommend hunting down the original Necromunda and Mordheim books...or I'm sure they're somewhere online.
Mordheim: https://www.hong-crewet.dk/Mordheim/Rules/m1330012_Mord_Rulebook_part_1_-_rules.pdf
Necromunda: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ss36uv41kyh1acq/sKzljZ_EoU
Supposedly, the Heralds of Ruin Kill-Team took a bit of inspiration from the two games. What I've read speaks highly of it, over the standard GW Kill-Team.
http://heralds-of-ruin.blogspot.kr/p/kill-team-rules.html#rules
Quote from: Crüesader;920927This forum post has a bit of things that might interest you: https://yaktribe.org/community/threads/alternative-necromunda-miniature-sources-image-heavy.15/
Way ahead of you, but thanks for the recommendation anyway. I've played a dozen times with their rules update/compilation and it's awesome.
I just want some sweet new ganger minis maaaan...
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;920950I just want some sweet new ganger minis maaaan...
Well, with any luck Kill-Team will show them there's an appreciation for small-scale battles.
Quote from: Crüesader;920916Actually, two people. You certainly are challenged. But I'm sorry, I didn't specifically make this thread to appeal to you. If you weren't interested in it, you certainly took time out of your day to make a comment on it. If you've nothing of value to contribute to the thread, go elsewhere.
It's one, buttercup.
I like the idea of using the models I have from the Space Marines vs Orks boxed set and the Kill Team rules, but I have no interest in the Tau models. So I'm in wait and see mode for now.
Quote from: Sommerjon;921044It's one, buttercup.
Count again. Spinachcat and AaronBrown99. And it seems like you do care, the only posts you've made on this site for the last week have been in my thread. Did you have something to contribute to the discussion, or do you just need attention?
Quote from: AaronBrown99;921051I like the idea of using the models I have from the Space Marines vs Orks boxed set and the Kill Team rules, but I have no interest in the Tau models. So I'm in wait and see mode for now.
I'd say see if you can get your hands on that rulebook. Or if you really want those Space Marines, see if you can find someone who wants the filthy xenos.
Quote from: Spinachcat;920930Both are akin to the Kill Team concept. 10-15 models per side, but your units gain XP, increase as RPG style PCs, can do an ongoing campaign, etc.
This. So very much this. This would nicely resolve a number of issues we have with scheduling and compatibility, but I've seen very few skirmish games that do this and don't require you to buy overpriced specific minis, which is a dealbreaker. Is it possible to run Necromunda/Mordheim with generic minis? Like, if you don't much care about tournament legal?
Also: fourth, motherfuckers
Quote from: daniel_ream;921096Is it possible to run Necromunda/Mordheim with generic minis? Like, if you don't much care about tournament legal?
Also: fourth, motherfuckers
I think an Empire militia box gives you a perfect Mordheim gang, as far as I remember.
Quote from: AaronBrown99;921051I like the idea of using the models I have from the Space Marines vs Orks boxed set and the Kill Team rules, but I have no interest in the Tau models. So I'm in wait and see mode for now.
Tau will sell fast on eBay if you price it reasonably with shipping. Advertise your sale on DakkaDakka or somewhere else too.
It's funny but the Orks vs. Marines in the box set would be PERFECT for the basic scenario from the original Rogue Trader. Back when we started playing 40k with RT, we rarely had more than two squads on the field for most of our games. Fantasy was where we had the gazillion figs, but 40k was much more about the Kill Teams unless you wanted to do big ass mega-point multiplayer battles.
But then GW realized they could sell lots more plastic...
Quote from: daniel_ream;921096This. So very much this. This would nicely resolve a number of issues we have with scheduling and compatibility, but I've seen very few skirmish games that do this and don't require you to buy overpriced specific minis, which is a dealbreaker. Is it possible to run Necromunda/Mordheim with generic minis? Like, if you don't much care about tournament legal?
Since Necromunda and Mordheim are "dead" games, you don't have to give a damn about tourneys. Some FLGS have "dead" game unofficial events, but no different than if you were setting up a AD&D 2e campaign.
It is EXTREMELY easy to run both games with generic minis. Check Cruesader's links upthread to see some cool 3rd party figs. Also, as Mordheim = Warhammer = D&D, you can pretty much use most of your D&D figs if you wanted to use pre-painted plastic figs. Hell, you could even use Mage Knight figs. Or Lego dudes!
BTW, I've introduced kids to wargaming with green vs. grey plastic army men. They freaking love it.
Quote from: AaronBrown99;921101I think an Empire militia box gives you a perfect Mordheim gang, as far as I remember.
Agreed. That would do the job just fine. No reason to buy the rare shit unless you want to, or if you get a great deal.
BTW, here is PAINTED Mordheim Witchhunter Warband - 9 figs - for $35 + $5 shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-Mordheim-Painted-Witch-Hunter-Warband-9models-/191972897622?hash=item2cb279f356:g:-3UAAOSwMgdX0vag
Quote from: Crüesader;921092Count again. Spinachcat and AaronBrown99. And it seems like you do care, the only posts you've made on this site for the last week have been in my thread. Did you have something to contribute to the discussion, or do you just need attention?
Read what was written, buttercup.
You seem more than willing to comment on every single post in this thread, yet you want to accuse others of craving attention. heh.
Quote from: Sommerjon;921204Read what was written, buttercup.
You seem more than willing to comment on every single post in this thread, yet you want to accuse others of craving attention. heh.
Do you have something to contribute? As I said, for the last week this thread has been your focus. I'm waiting.
No, really boy- is this your first time using the internet without an adult present?
Anyone have any opinion on Mordheim vs. Frostgrave? A friend has the Frostgrave book and he's into it. They seem very similar?
EDIT: Buh-whaaah...what's the difference between Mordheim, Coreheim and Heroheim, and where should I start?
I had never heard of Frostgrave, but now I want to learn more. Personally, I think there is a market for a 1 hour skirmish game.
https://ospreypublishing.com/frostgrave
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/177354/frostgrave
I've seen Frostgrave get a lot of attention of late. Lots of great terrain at GenCon themed for it.
So yeah, there's a market for it.
Quote from: Crüesader;921212Do you have something to contribute? As I said, for the last week this thread has been your focus. I'm waiting.
No, really boy- is this your first time using the internet without an adult present?
I did contribute, here let me post it again;
*yawn* Big whoop ta-da.
Sorry to be the one telling you this snowball, but fella your
(just for you) trying way too hard.
Quote from: daniel_ream;921226Anyone have any opinion on Mordheim vs. Frostgrave? A friend has the Frostgrave book and he's into it. They seem very similar?
Not much of a fan of Frostgrave. If forced to choose between only those two, I would go Mordheim
Quote from: Sommerjon;921333Sorry to be the one telling you this snowball, but fella your(just for you) trying way too hard.
Pot, this is kettle.
Seriously, for an entire week your only contributions to this entire site has been to come into this forum and say "I don't care". I don't know how you define 'trying way too hard' where you're from, but again.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]407[/ATTACH]
Pot, this is kettle.
Thank you for having an actual opinion relevant to the topic at hand. It took you an entire week to come in here and articulate a statement that you don't like a game.
Quote from: daniel_ream;921226Buh-whaaah...what's the difference between Mordheim, Coreheim and Heroheim, and where should I start?
Never heard of Coreheim or Heroheim.
Links?
Quote from: Crüesader;921334Pot, this is kettle.
Dude, he's trolling you for lolz.
Quote from: Spinachcat;921341Dude, he's trolling you for lolz.
Oh, I can see that. I just wish he was
funnier about it. I loves me a good funny troll.
Speaking of Trolls: Couldn't you use one of them in Mordheim?
Quote from: Spinachcat;921341Never heard of Coreheim or Heroheim.
Links?
AFAICT, "Coreheim (http://www.indadvendt.dk/2013/10/coreheim-all-documents-for-coreheim/)" is a simplified and rebalanced Mordheim, and "Heroheim" is Coreheim with more emphasis on individual characters. But they're both fan works and Heroheim appears to have never been finished.
Quote from: daniel_ream;921418AFAICT, "Coreheim (http://www.indadvendt.dk/2013/10/coreheim-all-documents-for-coreheim/)" is a simplified and rebalanced Mordheim, and "Heroheim" is Coreheim with more emphasis on individual characters. But they're both fan works and Heroheim appears to have never been finished.
Sounds like a spiritual successor, a bit like Zwei-
... I'm not gonna say it, he'll come in and advertise it...
(Not that the game looks bad at all, kinda tempted).
Quote from: daniel_ream;921226Anyone have any opinion on Mordheim vs. Frostgrave? A friend has the Frostgrave book and he's into it. They seem very similar?
EDIT: Buh-whaaah...what's the difference between Mordheim, Coreheim and Heroheim, and where should I start?
Coreheim and Heroheim are fanmade "new editions" of Mordheim online. I would recommend getting the original game first before getting into houserule territory, the same way I'd recommend Red Box D&D before jumping into most of the OSR stuff.
Frostgrave has a similar premise to Mordheim....each player controls a small warband of figures, led by a wizard, treasure hunting in a ruined city. It's far more focused on the magic aspect of the game, and obviously uses a different system than Mordheim. The system seems functional, nothing special but solid. Sometimes that's a good thing. It lacks Mordheim's aesthetics, which for me, were at least 75% of the appeal. Mordheim had a specific feel all its own, drenched in the rich lore of Warhammer but still managing to be its own thing.
Quote from: daniel_ream;921096Is it possible to run Necromunda/Mordheim with generic minis?
I've run it easily with Catachan Imperial guard painted in gang colors, a few 40k chaos cultists, and the generic DIY gang rules. Almost any post-apoc minis will also do.
Quote from: TristramEvans;921430....Frostgrave has a similar premise to Mordheim....
I'd not looked into this until you described it, then I found this:
https://thedicebaglady.net/fenris-games-terrain/
https://thedicebaglady.net/frostgrave-accessories-terrain/
... you might have just pointed me in the direction of some good, affordable products inadvertently.
Despite all the fuck you's, I'm kinda glad you contributed at this point.
Quote from: Crüesader;921334Pot, this is kettle.
Seriously, for an entire week your only contributions to this entire site has been to come into this forum and say "I don't care". I don't know how you define 'trying way too hard' where you're from, but again.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]407[/ATTACH]
Pot, this is kettle.
Thank you for having an actual opinion relevant to the topic at hand. It took you an entire week to come in here and articulate a statement that you don't like a game.
This is you trying way too hard.
Quote from: Sommerjon;921479This is you trying way too hard.
At this point you're deliberately trying to derail the thread. I'm going to have to ask you to either contribute something of substance or go troll elsewhere.
Quote from: Crüesader;921482At this point you're deliberately trying to derail the thread. I'm going to have to ask you to either contribute something of substance or go troll elsewhere.
This is you pouting.
Quote from: Crüesader;921482At this point you're deliberately trying to derail the thread. I'm going to have to ask you to either contribute something of substance or go troll elsewhere.
You're wasting your time arguing with a troll who's just going to parrot stupid responses back to you. Put him on your ignore list, resist the impulse to respond, and go back to talking about 40k rumors. I find that interesting.
Quote from: K Peterson;921499You're wasting your time arguing with a troll who's just going to parrot stupid responses back to you. Put him on your ignore list, resist the impulse to respond, and go back to talking about 40k rumors. I find that interesting.
Have some pictures:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]410[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]411[/ATTACH]
Looks like the Genestealer cult's vehicle is some kinda mining vehicle, curious to see how it operates.
There's some new stuff about Chaos focused on the Thousand Sons and Space Wolves, but there might be more Chaos stuff. Hard for me to get stoked about Chaos because the last thing they released was 'bleh', and I was really hoping for something focused on the Alpha Legion.
Quote from: K Peterson;921499You're wasting your time arguing with a troll who's just going to parrot stupid responses back to you. Put him on your ignore list, resist the impulse to respond, and go back to talking about 40k rumors. I find that interesting.
Damn dude you are hurting my feelings.
Just a little fyi, this thread hasn't been about 40k rumors for like 40 posts.
Quote from: TristramEvans;921430It lacks Mordheim's aesthetics, which for me, were at least 75% of the appeal. Mordheim had a specific feel all its own, drenched in the rich lore of Warhammer but still managing to be its own thing.
To be honest I find the Warhammer milieu kind of off-putting (as much as I love Chaos in the Old World's mechanics, the art and fluff annoy me). How are the rules separate from the setting?
Quote from: daniel_ream;921553To be honest I find the Warhammer milieu kind of off-putting (as much as I love Chaos in the Old World's mechanics, the art and fluff annoy me). How are the rules separate from the setting?
Mordheim just used an expanded version of the Warhammer system. If you don't like Warhammer's aesthetics (noting that Mordheim was veryVery different in aesthetics from Chaos in the Old World), Frostgrave would probably be the better choice for you.
So after listening to the developer's vlog on the Genestealer cults, apparently these are the highlights:
-'Ambush' focused army, where units can slip away and strike at the enemy.
-Nasty in close range melee.
-The truck is pretty resilient.
-Can use Chimaira and Leman Russ.
I must say that I love the trucks. I could see a lot of guard players using them instead of the Taurox.
Quote from: David Johansen;921728I must say that I love the trucks. I could see a lot of guard players using them instead of the Taurox.
Seriously, that Taurox is one shit-ugly ride.
Here's a bit of the stats and such for it:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]415[/ATTACH]
Quote from: TristramEvans;921430Frostgrave has a similar premise to Mordheim....each player controls a small warband of figures, led by a wizard, treasure hunting in a ruined city. It's far more focused on the magic aspect of the game, and obviously uses a different system than Mordheim. The system seems functional, nothing special but solid. Sometimes that's a good thing.
From just a game mechanics perspective, what do we gain with Frostgrave? And mechanically, what are we losing compared to Mordheim?
Quote from: Spinachcat;921964From just a game mechanics perspective, what do we gain with Frostgrave? And mechanically, what are we losing compared to Mordheim?
Frostgrave is more heavily focused on magic, and the magic system is quite nice. I'm not the sort of gamer that spends hours trying to find loopholes (and don't play with those sorts of people) but it seems generally well-balanced while providing a wealth of options. Beyond that, though, Frostgrave isn't exceptionally customizable, as far as one's entourage goes. Mordheim provide a wealth of options, whereas Frostgrave is more streamlined (a knight is a knight is a knight sort of thing). The Frostgrave system uses d20s...whether thats a plus, minus or neutral depends on taste. I've never been a huge fan. Mordheim seemed in my experience to have deadlier combat, and overall to be a bit "grittier" (generally expect to lose one or more soldiers per game).
Quote from: David Johansen;921728I must say that I love the trucks. I could see a lot of guard players using them instead of the Taurox.
I started playing with Tempestus Scions. Kinda fun army, and I prefer them over standard IG armies. (A lot less painting, and you can make them look a bit less fucked).
The Taurox is still butt-ugly, but I'll be damned if that Gatling Cannon isn't great for shitting on hordes or removing some asshole like a Solitaire from the board.
Also, a bit late to the game but some new 'Start Collecting' boxes are coming out.
Admech, Deathwatch, Space Wolves, and Tau are getting 'big boxes'. Probably over $100, but a hell of a thing to get for Christmas and start with.
I have to say, I thoroughly enjoy Deathwatch. I like the armor style, the weapons, and the sheer comical fuckery they can do.
Comedy: Drop Pod with a wad of Melee guys. Use a Team focused on whatever your opponent loves to put down. Drop them with the beacon angelis. Have some Shield guys up front and a Blackshield with the Heavy Thunder Hammer. That's a D-Weapon on a roll of 6 to wound. You can re-roll failed to wounds against the enemy if you've got the proper team build for it. You've got a Blackshield, so if it's a HQ, Super Heavy, MC, or they outnumber you- he does this TWICE.
What makes the Tempestus Scions more interesting for IG?
Quote from: Spinachcat;931080What makes the Tempestus Scions more interesting for IG?
Honestly?
1- Less shit to paint. I don't like painting guardsmen, especially guardsmen that are most commonly available in smaller boxes (Catachans are getting harder to find, and I'm not dropping Forge World bucks for Death Korps).
2- Their limitations. I know, that sounds dumb- but making IG perform really well happens at 1000 points. Been there, done that, and it's just too expensive. While Scions are limited, I can use them as allies to other armies that are smaller but seem cooler/more fun to me. That's a good feature, especially if you like variety.
3- They look pretty cool if you glue the grenades, ammo pouches, and belts and stuff. You can add IG bits to them and make them even more 'tacticool'. And I don't use their box color scheme- I'm using more brown/tan.
Did they ever come out with a bits box like Wolves have? That was the biggest problem I had after cutting the troop box down to10.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;931207Did they ever come out with a bits box like Wolves have? That was the biggest problem I had after cutting the troop box down to10.
Bits box? You mean an upgrade kit for Scions/Imperial Guard?
I've seen a few from third party people, and Forge World has some.
Way back when, I played with a guy who used to run a IG tank army. He loved it and his foot units were an afterthought. Oddly, he did the same with an Eldar army too.
How the ratio of vehicles to infantry in the Tempestus army? I haven't played enough of the current 40k edition to know how they have overall dealt with vehicles.
Quote from: Spinachcat;931276Way back when, I played with a guy who used to run a IG tank army. He loved it and his foot units were an afterthought. Oddly, he did the same with an Eldar army too.
All IG infantry is good for is just mobs hurling 'oh shit' shots out there and -maybe- dropping someone once in a while. The flamers, meltas, and plasma help- but not much. It's too much of a points sink for me. I'd rather just have them 'hold the line' and tarpit any infantry that comes my way.
Quote from: Spinachcat;931276How the ratio of vehicles to infantry in the Tempestus army? I haven't played enough of the current 40k edition to know how they have overall dealt with vehicles.
So you have 2 vehicles to choose from:
1- Taurox Prime. You can rig it with a nasty gatling turret, a cannon, or the rocket launcher system (Frag or Krak). Mounted on the sides you get the option to do either Autocannon or the Hotshot Volley cannon. It is still butt-ugly no matter what. To make it less butt-ugly, don't use the dumb lion stuff and paint it tactical colors.
1- Valkyrie. This thing can be pretty decent, but I've found it's best to pass on it unless you need something in the air to deal with your opponent's flyer.
As far as infantry goes:
1- Scions: These guys are pretty solid, about the same as the Storm Troopers/Kasrkins. You get Hot-Shot rifle, Melta, Plasma, Hot-Shot Volley gun, G'nade launcher, or heavy flamer. Sergeant can rock a Hot-Shot pistol or Bolter pistol for Free, or Plasma. Comes with a pretty awesome chainsaw-bayonet pistol. Can also use power axe (None included, and no idea where to find some that would look like modern tomahawks, sadly), power sword, power fist, or chainsword.
2- Tempestus Prime command: Can use roughly same layout as Scion squad. Tempestor Prime on the box looks like some weird knife-wielding pimp. Scrap the coat, find some better way to designate them.
All of these guys come with several head options- basically helmets or berets. I went with the helmets for the troops, beret with mask for the sergeant/prime
3- Prefectus Commissar. Not a Lord Commissar, just a commissar. And he's kind of useless unless you want to use that one particular formation. I don't like it, I prefer CAD. I always seem to do better. But he looks cool.
So, a while back the GW team hinted at 'Plastic Sisters'. It's been practically confirmed that we're getting an Adeptus Sororitas release. Here's one of the models:
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Not really impressed, but it looks OK.
But yeah, yay, we're getting the bolter bitches again. Neckbeards are practically squealing about it.
Honestly, it's hard for me to give a shit. The Sisters were never that awesome. They could do a few neat tricks but at around 1000 points and higher they were kind of useless. They were originally teased in 3rd edition like "Guys, they'll be part Space Marines and part Imperial Guard!" Except, of course, they got a lot of the 'meh' parts. Fact is, they weren't that good and they never were that popular. The reason they never got a proper Codex release is despite what all the neckbeards are howling- they weren't selling. These guys like to pretend they were some special thing, but they were kind of useless outside of an Inquisition force with Grey Knights or Stormtroopers. And now, they're still kind of useless with their current rules.
They're the squats with armored titties- a thing that players pretend was awesome, because they think it gives them some credibility from playing 'the older and better stuff', which really wasn't all that great. It's a cred-signalling thing.
Squats were fucking dumb and didn't do anything special.
Sisters sold well for the amount of effort and minis GW put into them, which wasn't much at all.
In fact, GW investment to $$, Sisters has been their best seller by far.
Quote from: Sommerjon;934162Sisters sold well for the amount of effort and minis GW put into them, which wasn't much at all.
In fact, GW investment to $$, Sisters has been their best seller by far.
If that's so, people have yet to explain why they quit supporting them.
I mean, fuckin' Tallarn got better support.
heh, trolling much? ;)
Anyhow, in RT Squats could equip every last guy in their infantry squads with a heavy bolter. They were the biker army of the time. Other armies could get some bikes but Squats specialized in them The metal models were cool and the plastic ones were dorky.
Of the various Squat expies out there, Bob Olley's Scrunts are the best. My favorite were the Texas Scrunts. Hasslefree's Grimm are more realistically proportioned and equipped. Mantics new Steel Warriors are nice and their powered armor guys sure are nicer than the old Squat exosuits.
Quote from: David Johansen;934195heh, trolling much? ;)
Anyhow, in RT Squats could equip every last guy in their infantry squads with a heavy bolter. They were the biker army of the time. Other armies could get some bikes but Squats specialized in them The metal models were cool and the plastic ones were dorky.
Of the various Squat expies out there, Bob Olley's Scrunts are the best. My favorite were the Texas Scrunts. Hasslefree's Grimm are more realistically proportioned and equipped. Mantics new Steel Warriors are nice and their powered armor guys sure are nicer than the old Squat exosuits.
Not at all. You're the first person to explain -something- about squats that sounds interesting. Everyone else talks about them the same way 12-year-olds talk about Dark Angels. "Dey ahre djust ahesome!"
They were also move 3, weapon skill 4, toughness 4, and leadership 9. Actually I'm pretty sure RT still had Cool and Leadership, can't recall if Squats had both at 9. So, at the time they were tougher than Space Marines (who were T3) and better fighters than Orks. It was a different game in a lot of ways. Guard had bikers with twin-linked bolt guns and assault troopers with jump packs. Everyone used Rhinos.
The Squats were also clear good guys if prone to bearing grudges. They were semi-autonomous from the Imperium, didn't really need Tech Priests for much of anything, highly resistant to psychic powers. They also may have been the most broken thing RT in this side of a Harlequin troupe. Though, the Imperial Guard's auxiliary crack grenade launchers were pretty fun. Having 30 24" range crack grenades aimed at your marines wasn't much fun. :D
Quote from: David Johansen;934198They were also move 3, weapon skill 4, toughness 4, and leadership 9. Actually I'm pretty sure RT still had Cool and Leadership, can't recall if Squats had both at 9. So, at the time they were tougher than Space Marines (who were T3) and better fighters than Orks. It was a different game in a lot of ways. Guard had bikers with twin-linked bolt guns and assault troopers with jump packs. Everyone used Rhinos.
The Squats were also clear good guys if prone to bearing grudges. They were semi-autonomous from the Imperium, didn't really need Tech Priests for much of anything, highly resistant to psychic powers. They also may have been the most broken thing RT in this side of a Harlequin troupe. Though, the Imperial Guard's auxiliary crack grenade launchers were pretty fun. Having 30 24" range crack grenades aimed at your marines wasn't much fun. :D
See, I'd read your stuff and say "This guy knows his shit and loved the squats". I'm not joking, you are the first person to ever explain them in such a way. As I said, everyone else seemed to be just saying how awesome they were for the credibility... sort of like a kid that was born in 1987 saying how much 'better' the metal concerts were in the 80's- but he's never been to one, he's just repeating what he's heard other folks say.
I feel the same way about Sisters. They had a couple of neat tricks, but they were the Tempestus Scions of that time- just a novel little army that was just 'more of the same shit you already have' at over 1000 points. And since most people played at 1200-1250 at the shops, they were a rare sight.
Are the Sisters finally getting a codex?
Quote from: Crüesader;934037The reason they never got a proper Codex release is despite what all the neckbeards are howling- they weren't selling.
Armies with a current codex always sell better.
If they can make a Genestealer Cult army, they can make a Sisters army and do it with game mechanic coolness. I liked the Sister's fluff and I've used them as NPCs in Dark Heresy. They're badass and more involved in humanity's affairs (like Cults) than the Space Marines who are off fighting the Big Bads.
Quote from: Crüesader;934201Squats were fucking dumb and didn't do anything special.
Dude...space dwarves. What's not to love?
When RT came out, the squats had some of the best art. They were quintessential punker dwarfs, riding hoverboards and packing plasma guns.
In RT play, I agree with David. Squats and Ogryns were popular support units for IG armies. Of course, when I say army in RT, I am mostly talking skirmish games. We mostly played with each player having around 20-30 figs on the table. Hell, we played lots of squad vs. squad games too, which probably was why we jumped on Necromunda later on.
Quote from: Crüesader;934201sort of like a kid that was born in 1987 saying how much 'better' the metal concerts were in the 80's- but he's never been to one, he's just repeating what he's heard other folks say.
Its true there was something amazing seeing the Metal Gods when the classic songs were just released, but I don't miss the stupid violence of the 80s mosh pits where morons showed up just to hurt people. Today, the pits are more about stupid fun, WWE bumping and mostly, moshers take better care of each other and leave the front rows in relative peace. I do miss stage divers (too rare these days) and I don't like crowd surfers (watch your damn feet).
Quote from: Crüesader;934188If that's so, people have yet to explain why they quit supporting them.
I mean, fuckin' Tallarn got better support.
Politics at the Mothership.
Quote from: David Johansen;934198Though, the Imperial Guard's auxiliary crack grenade launchers were pretty fun. Having 30 24" range crack grenades aimed at your marines wasn't much fun. :D
Hahaha that was annoying as hell.
Quote from: Crüesader;934037So, a while back the GW team hinted at 'Plastic Sisters'. It's been practically confirmed that we're getting an Adeptus Sororitas release. Here's one of the models:
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But a good match for one of the best RT illustrations.
Quote from: Sommerjon;934240Politics at the Mothership.
Fortunately, things are looking better these days. It's a good day when you can only complain about prices at GW. Hopefully, sisters aren't going to be as useless as I remember.
Quote from: Crüesader;934201See, I'd read your stuff and say "This guy knows his shit and loved the squats". I'm not joking, you are the first person to ever explain them in such a way. As I said, everyone else seemed to be just saying how awesome they were for the credibility... sort of like a kid that was born in 1987 saying how much 'better' the metal concerts were in the 80's- but he's never been to one, he's just repeating what he's heard other folks say.
I feel the same way about Sisters. They had a couple of neat tricks, but they were the Tempestus Scions of that time- just a novel little army that was just 'more of the same shit you already have' at over 1000 points. And since most people played at 1200-1250 at the shops, they were a rare sight.
Really, I'm a guard guy but I do think Squats got the short end of the stick at GW. I've heard the problem was that they couldn't come up with anything interesting to do with them. Eldar lore grew and grew but a dwarf is just a dwarf I suppose. Really, I think they needed to step back from the Hells Angels look a bit but keep them as dwarfs. But possibly give them more mole vehicles and mining gear. I'd want beefier looking bikes, they looked a bit silly on the choppers. Mantic's got a Forge Father tank coming out that looks okay, but it's their space skaven that are getting a tunneller.
Quote from: Crüesader;934197Not at all. You're the first person to explain -something- about squats that sounds interesting. Everyone else talks about them the same way 12-year-olds talk about Dark Angels. "Dey ahre djust ahesome!"
Well, its 40K. " "Dey ahre djust ahesome!" is basically the essence of Space Marines.
Quote from: Tristram Evans;934365Well, its 40K. " "Dey ahre djust ahesome!" is basically the essence of Space Marines.
That armor save comes in handy, actually. And they're flexible, but never excel at anything. Best thing for people to go and explore what they like to do. Still enjoy my Deathwatch, but as far as fiction and RPG's goes- Scions/Stormtroopers all the way.
Quote from: David Johansen;934339Really, I'm a guard guy but I do think Squats got the short end of the stick at GW. I've heard the problem was that they couldn't come up with anything interesting to do with them. Eldar lore grew and grew but a dwarf is just a dwarf I suppose. Really, I think they needed to step back from the Hells Angels look a bit but keep them as dwarfs. But possibly give them more mole vehicles and mining gear. I'd want beefier looking bikes, they looked a bit silly on the choppers. Mantic's got a Forge Father tank coming out that looks okay, but it's their space skaven that are getting a tunneller.
Eh, probably would have been better if used like Ogryns or Ratlings.
Bullgryns are the shit, though. Retard Shield Wall, activate!
Quote from: Crüesader;934394That armor save comes in handy, actually. And they're flexible, but never excel at anything.
Not really the point though. The (current)rules are based on the popularity of the figures. If Squats were more popular they'd have better rules.
People who like Squats like them for fluff/aesthetic reasons, or because they represent a time period when the focus of the game wasn't centred on tournament dickwaving and constant powercreep to sell models. The rules for any given army are based on a publishing cycle, and ultimately are meaningless as the new hotness will constantly be around the corner to move plastic units.
I've often thought Space Marine Scouts would be the best thing to field Squats as in the current game. I've always thought Squats were better with bolt guns than lasguns and there are scout bikers. Because Squats should have better hardware than the guard but possibly not the same tanks.
If I were to modernize the Squats I'd probably give them the big genestealer mining trucks, light trucks with a heavy weapon on them, and maybe the bikes, I don't know, the biker vibe is somewhere between dated and kitsch. I'm thinking welding visors and jack hammers. Carapace armor troopers with storm bolters. Light troopers in flak with bolt guns. I'd probably let the whole army deep strike from tunnels dug by mining trucks. I'd try to stay away from Viking or medieval themes for the lords. Might even put them in old style business suits like a bunch of robber barons.
I do really like Mantic's Forge Fathers though. I've got a small army of them and the Iron Ancestor and the Jottun quad cannon are fun. Not sure how I feel about the tank yet. We'll have to see what the actual product looks like. I'm not sure if I'm looking forward to the new Warpath, the previous version was really fun but I think the new version looks interesting. Not sure how I like multibases in 28mm though. I do like the new alternating activation. You activate whatever you want but can hold units back to allow you to respond to enemy action. It's simple and might really be the best of alternating activation and I go you go.
Quote from: Tristram Evans;934448People who like Squats like them for fluff/aesthetic reasons, or because they represent a time period when the focus of the game wasn't centred on tournament dickwaving and constant powercreep to sell models. The rules for any given army are based on a publishing cycle, and ultimately are meaningless as the new hotness will constantly be around the corner to move plastic units.
Well, fortunately the area I'm in these days is much less competitive than some. A lot of players will tell you if the game is skewed in their own favor and adjust. There is a spot called the 'powergamer table' for tournament guys- who, actually to my surprise, have been helping players become more competitive.
How are the Genestealer Cults working out?
Have anyone run them with Kill Teams yet?
Quote from: Spinachcat;934985How are the Genestealer Cults working out?
Have anyone run them with Kill Teams yet?
Not with Kill-Team. I played an Allied game, me and a new friend. I ran my Scions as a mechanized/airborne CAD and he ran an armored formation. The guy running the Genestealers was a former guard player, so he had some Leman Russ tanks and some infantry platoons. The tanks never disappoint. The infantry platoons can be shredded down like any other, and tabled. But what I did learn:
-Fuck that truck. DO NOT get near it. And 'tank shock' is nasty with that thing. YOU WILL LOSE.
-Stay put on objectives and shoot as much as you can, and reinforce that. I found what helped me was using Hot-Shot volley guns, Flamers, and the Taurox Gatling cannon. GS units can pop up out of nowhere, so outmaneuvering them (even with a fast transport like the Taurox) isn't feasible. Then assault and overwhelm, if at all possible- because they can go 'poof' and then
come back with more fucking dudes to replace the dead dudes.
-When stuff comes out of reserve, you have more than a 50% chance of having GS Cultists up your shit pipe.
-The sergeants can throw disposable mooks in front of them all day long, so any 'slay character' objectives are a pain in the ass.
-Overall, in the near-range shooting game they can melt you. What really helped me was actually, for once, 'mixing special weapons'. I know, blasphemy. But because every squad of Scions had a flamer and some volley firepower, I did fairly well. But you need that range to thin the horde, because when they get close they're just obscene (and their infantry can take shotguns, apparently).