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Torchbearer: dungeon exploring and survival simulation

Started by silva, April 24, 2013, 07:54:04 PM

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Rincewind1

#45
April 25, 2013, 02:57:33 PM
Quote from: KenHR;649219I'm always careful to make sure my PC's crotch is shaven before entering the dungeon.  No rot grubs.

Should go and post that in the "Adventurer's Advice" thread.


"Always shave your crotch before entering dungeon"
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

One Horse Town

#46
April 25, 2013, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Black Vulmea;649217"Keeping track of time in the dungeon (or on any other type of adventure) is sometimes difficult, but it is at least as important as the accurate recording of time in the campaign. As has been mentioned elsewhere, the standard time breakdown is ten one-minute rounds to the turn, and six turns to the hour. All referees should keep a side record of time on a separate sheet of paper, marking off the turns as they pass (melees or other actions which result in fractional turns should be rounded up to make complete turns)." - 1e AD&D DMG, p. 38, sub-head "TIME IN THE DUNGEON"

Indeed! The bit you quoted seemed to me that the guy thought it was some radical new idea. I have no idea where some people have been gaming all these years sometimes.

Rincewind1

#47
April 25, 2013, 03:05:07 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;649222Indeed! The bit you quoted seemed to me that the guy thought it was some radical new idea. I have no idea where some people have been gaming all these years sometimes.

I think the more important question is, why one of the most...minutiae, obvious and unnecessary rule, is suddenly hailed as some great feature. Most of the time you can just measure the time "in general". Playing an RPG is not working in a pharmacy, if you steal or add 3 to 10 minutes of a spell time outside of combat because you noted the passage of time "in general" rather than tick by tick, nobody will die in real life.

If time plays an important role in my game, I just grab a chicken egg timer.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

KenHR

#48
April 25, 2013, 03:11:35 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;649222Indeed! The bit you quoted seemed to me that the guy thought it was some radical new idea. I have no idea where some people have been gaming all these years sometimes.

I'd like to know how many people singing this game's praises also derided the "You cannot have a meaningful campaign unless strict time records are kept" passage in the DMG.
For fuck\'s sake, these are games, people.

And no one gives a fuck about your ignore list.


Gompan
band - other music

Black Vulmea

#49
April 25, 2013, 03:15:50 PM
Quote from: KenHR;649219I'm always careful to make sure my PC's crotch is shaven before entering the dungeon.
Real adventurers go Brazilian.

Quote from: One Horse Town;649222I have no idea where some people have been gaming all these years sometimes.
Y'know, hanging out on forums can be really revealing. That DW asshat aside, I'm at a point where I can actually understand how this might sound 'new' to some gamers. Even gamers who played 1e often didn't read or understand many - hell, MOST - of the rules in the game; they used a bit of Basic, a bit of AD&D, and a lot of improvisation to smooth it all out.

If nothing else, I've learned how my experiences and expectations differ - sometimes profoundly and fundamentally - from other gamers. If this helps them get their dungeon crawl on, Gawd bless 'em and I hope they carry enough torches to make it back to daylight.

That won't stop me from mocking them a little bit, though.
"Of course five generic Kobolds in a plain room is going to be dull. Making it potentially not dull is kinda the GM\'s job." - #Ladybird, theRPGsite

Really Bad Eggs - swashbuckling roleplaying games blog  | Promise City - Boot Hill campaign blog

ACS

Exploderwizard

#50
April 25, 2013, 03:19:00 PM
Quote from: KenHR;649226I'd like to know how many people singing this game's praises also derided the "You cannot have a meaningful campaign unless strict time records are kept" passage in the DMG.

I suspect a great many people who are interested in this game have no experience whatsoever with gaming in (or from) that era.

Time measurement, resource tracking, tough decisions about what to take or leave, and death that occurs even when narratively inappropriate are new concepts to a surprising number of gamers.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Planet Algol

#51
April 25, 2013, 03:20:30 PM
I'm pretty sure 70s TSR D&D-esque rpg Empire of the Petal Throne had rules abstracting light sources into how many adventurers they supply with light.
Yeah, but who gives a fuck? You? Jibba?

Well congrats. No one else gives a shit, so your arguments are a waste of breath.

Benoist

#52
April 25, 2013, 03:22:37 PM
It just goes to prove that the VAST majority of the game's critics don't know what they are talking about, either because they've never read and/or played it in the first place, or it was so long ago that they forgot pretty much everything they thought they knew at the time to substitute it with some heavily biased stereotype thereof.

Sacrosanct

#53
April 25, 2013, 03:22:45 PM
I'm banned from TBP, but how much you wanna bet if you replied in that that thread, "Wow, just like what I've been playing this whole time with AD&D", you'd get sanctioned for threadcapping?
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Rincewind1

#54
April 25, 2013, 03:26:11 PM Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 03:29:15 PM by Rincewind1
Quote from: Sacrosanct;649232I'm banned from TBP, but how much you wanna bet if you replied in that that thread, "Wow, just like what I've been playing this whole time with AD&D", you'd get sanctioned for threadcapping?

There is no bookie in the world naive enough to take that bet.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Black Vulmea

#55
April 25, 2013, 03:28:08 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;649228Time measurement, resource tracking, tough decisions about what to take or leave, and death that occurs even when narratively inappropriate are new concepts to a surprising number of gamers.
If they don't want to wait on Torchbearer, I know another game they could try in the meantime. Here's a sample . . .

Quote from: 1e AD&D DMG, p. 225, sub-head "APPENDIX O: ENCUMBRANCE OF STANDARD ITEMS"As an example, Dimwall the magic-user and Drudge the fighter have prepared for a dungeon expedition. Dimwall, besides his normal clothing, has strapped on a belt with a large pouch on it. Into this and his robe, he tucks his material components (minimal encumbrance). He also places in his pouch a potion bottle, a mirror, some garlic and belladonna, and his tinderbox. At his right side hangs a dagger and sheath and four more daggers are on a bandolier slung across his chest. Over all these belts, he puts his backpack. In his pack goes a hand axe (for chopping, not fighting), 3 flasks of oil, a candle, 3 small sacks, 1 large sack, and 7 torches. lashed in a bundle to the pack is 50' of rope. At his left side, hanging from his belt, are a leather scroll case and his purse, filled with 20 gold pieces. He holds a staff in his right hand and a torch in his left. He is now ready to travel, with a total encumbrance of 689 g.p.

Meanwhile, his companion, Drudge, has strapped on his splint armor. He wears 2 belts around his waist; his longsword hangs from one. On the other belt he places his quiver with 40 bolts, a cocking hook, and a dagger. He slips on his backpack, already loaded with 10 spikes, one week's iron rations, and a flask of oil. To the bottom of the pack he has strapped 50' of rope. Hanging on the rear of the pack i s his heavy crossbow. Around his neck he wears a holy symbol. Finally, he straps his large shield on his left arm, fits his helmet, and takes his lantern, ready to go with a total encumbrance of 1117 g.p.

During their adventures, Dimwall and Drudge find 800 gold pieces in a troll's treasure horde. Dimwall can carry 400 gold pieces in his large sack and another 300 gold pieces in his small sacks. Dimwall leaves his torches and staff, since he must have his hands free. Then he fastens a small sack to his belt and, using two hands, carries the large sack over his shoulder. Drudge eats part of his iron rations and throws the rest away, along with his spikes and oil. He places the remaining bags in the bottom of his pack and then pours the loose coins on top of them. Encumbrance for Dimwall is now 889 gold pieces and 1222 gold pieces for Drudge.

As they leave, Dimwall and Drudge meet the troll. There is little time to react, so Drudge must quickly drop his lantern (possibly putting it out) and attack. As he does this, Dimwall must drop the large sack (probably scattering coins about), unsling his pack, and start digging for his oil. By the time he finds it, the troll may have killed them both!
:)
"Of course five generic Kobolds in a plain room is going to be dull. Making it potentially not dull is kinda the GM\'s job." - #Ladybird, theRPGsite

Really Bad Eggs - swashbuckling roleplaying games blog  | Promise City - Boot Hill campaign blog

ACS

KenHR

#56
April 25, 2013, 03:40:22 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;649228I suspect a great many people who are interested in this game have no experience whatsoever with gaming in (or from) that era.

Time measurement, resource tracking, tough decisions about what to take or leave, and death that occurs even when narratively inappropriate are new concepts to a surprising number of gamers.

It's just striking me as funny because that passage in particular was a focal point of derision aimed at AD&D back in the day at RPGnet...I think even before it was purple.
For fuck\'s sake, these are games, people.

And no one gives a fuck about your ignore list.


Gompan
band - other music

ZWEIHÄNDER

#57
April 25, 2013, 03:42:35 PM
Forgist or not, it made Forbes. That's a good sign from a sales perspective, even if it pisses off the old guard.
No thanks.

Exploderwizard

#58
April 25, 2013, 03:43:56 PM
Quote from: KenHR;649238It's just striking me as funny because that passage in particular was a focal point of derision aimed at AD&D back in the day at RPGnet...I think even before it was purple.

Shit goes in cycles.

This game might make old school dungeon crawling cool again for the kids.

....and then soon after that be mocked yet again when the next fad du jour comes along.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Sacrosanct

#59
April 25, 2013, 03:45:54 PM
Quote from: KenHR;649238It's just striking me as funny because that passage in particular was a focal point of derision aimed at AD&D back in the day at RPGnet...I think even before it was purple.

In all fairness, most of those old posters don't post very much anymore.  It's like the circle of life.  The new crew of people aren't old enough to have played AD&D and only believe it's this horrible thing because that's what they were told, and in funny irony, a "new" game comes out they all love that has many of the same things that AD&D had.

Lesson:  Don't hate or love something just because your "elders" told you so.  Experience it for yourself or at least read it first.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.
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