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Torchbearer: dungeon exploring and survival simulation

Started by silva, April 24, 2013, 07:54:04 PM

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crkrueger

#30
April 25, 2013, 01:38:53 AM
Silva, you keep mentioning the wargaming roots of D&D, I assume by that you mean Hit Points and Armor Class.  Have you ever looked at games like D20 Conan, Judge Dredd or Star Wars that handled them completely differently?
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Jason Coplen

#31
April 25, 2013, 04:43:43 AM
Quote from: Benoist;648994Reinventing the (Burning) Wheel: the Forgist Resource Management Game.

*Chokes* That's great! I fully agree.
Running: HarnMaster, Barbaric 2E!, and EABA.

Kanye Westeros

#32
April 25, 2013, 04:57:54 AM
Quote from: Rincewind1;649014D&D Hipster Edition.

Hipster D&D? Sign me up.

The Butcher

#33
April 25, 2013, 06:07:29 AM
I tried to read Burning Wheel, once, and my eyes were glazing over by page 2.

In any case, I'd give this (or Burning Wheel, or Apocalypse World) a fair shake at the gaming table (as a player, naturally). I'm actually happy that Crane & co. have wised up to the joys of Fantasy Fucking Vietnam and are going about it their own way.

Exploderwizard

#34
April 25, 2013, 08:53:17 AM
A "conflict log" on the character sheet? Seriously.

:rolleyes:

This should be a blast to watch people sing praises about.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

The Traveller

#35
April 25, 2013, 09:07:16 AM
Is burning wheel a game? I thought it was just a character creation simulator.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

The Ent

#36
April 25, 2013, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: The Traveller;649121Is burning wheel a game? I thought it was just a character creation simulator.

:rotfl:

That's certainly the part of the game that left the best impression on me. :D
(The rest of the game suffered lots from "complicated for complicated's own sake", "weird words used for weirdness' sake" and generally, well, the rules not being that well written. Allthough I did like many of the game's ideas, and even some of the jokes, and vastly prefer it to Mouse Guard (blecchhhh)).

Gotta say this though, the elves and orcs in BW are among the better takes I've seen.

Real pity the rules couldn't be a tiny bit more streamlined, or something.

Rincewind1

#37
April 25, 2013, 11:14:19 AM
Quote from: The Ent;649145:rotfl:

That's certainly the part of the game that left the best impression on me. :D
(The rest of the game suffered lots from "complicated for complicated's own sake", "weird words used for weirdness' sake" and generally, well, the rules not being that well written. Allthough I did like many of the game's ideas, and even some of the jokes, and vastly prefer it to Mouse Guard (blecchhhh)).

Gotta say this though, the elves and orcs in BW are among the better takes I've seen.

Real pity the rules couldn't be a tiny bit more streamlined, or something.

:pundit: You seeThe rules are so complicated to weed out those unwashed enough to play and ensure that everyone has the same importance to the plot, and GM can not just kill your fun by taking your character away from you. :pundit:
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

thedungeondelver

#38
April 25, 2013, 11:22:50 AM
I thought there already was a game to play when you wanted to pretend to be someone playing D&D (Dungeon World, although the double-dip meta-"humor" of Hackmaster "4e" goes a long way in that direction too).
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

crkrueger

#39
April 25, 2013, 11:34:10 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;649117A "conflict log" on the character sheet? Seriously.

:rolleyes:

This should be a blast to watch people sing praises about.

Yeah, "Angry" and "Afraid" are states just "Exhausted" and "Hungry/Thirsty".
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Black Vulmea

#40
April 25, 2013, 02:19:03 PM
Big Purple weighs in . . .

QuoteInstead of measuring in terms of distance, light sources are measured in terms of how many people they provide illumination for. This is sensible, and a good narrative adaptation. They also burn out in a number of "turns". It seems that "turns" will be the most important method of marking time in the dungeon. I'm guessing that it'll have to do with taking actions in the dungeon. Again, I love the abstraction here. It speaks to a game where the minutiae and boring details aren't there.
QuoteIt harkens back to old days but not in a bad way.
QuoteI now have Dungeon World for my epic story-based tales, so having something else for the other end would be cool.
QuoteEach phase has its own mechanics and dynamics. The heart of the game is the adventure phase, where the players engage with the GM's adventures. Each test you make eats up valuable turns. Once a certain number of turns has passed, you get a condition, starting from the relatively innocuous hungry/thirsty, but spiralling quickly towards serious consequences. It's a race against time, and your equipment and skills are the only things that will get you out alive.
QuoteStuff like this is exactly what I want from a dungeon crawler. I wonder, though – how is death handled? Is there a real danger of not coming back out of the hole? The descriptions so far sure make it sound so, and dungeon crawling needs real danger, I think.
QuoteI was looking at the character sheet, going "wait, so you have to carouse and make use of your loot before you level up?" This makes a lot more sense.
:rotfl:

Oh, and the best for last.

QuoteI'm so happy Thor and Luke are making a game that scratches the other D&D itch for me. We wrote Dungeon World to be narrative-driven dungeon adventure and Torchbearer is all inventory management and time-tension. It's fantastic, because now I can play either kind of D&D and be assured a good time. Well, as much as any rule set can assure anything, anyway.
Got that? Two different games that ape D&D so that he could enjoy playing D&D.

How far up their own asses have these guys crawled?
"Of course five generic Kobolds in a plain room is going to be dull. Making it potentially not dull is kinda the GM\'s job." - #Ladybird, theRPGsite

Really Bad Eggs - swashbuckling roleplaying games blog  | Promise City - Boot Hill campaign blog

ACS

Sacrosanct

#41
April 25, 2013, 02:30:03 PM
Quote from: Black Vulmea;649206Big Purple weighs in . . .



?  So I could have a torch that works for up to 5 people even if those people are in a 15 meter spread?

That makes no sense.  And who the hell wants to keep track of hunger on a by turn basis?  Did you have rations for food today?  Yes?  OK, move on.  What next, keeping track of unshaven status and crotch rot progression on an hourly basis?
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

One Horse Town

#42
April 25, 2013, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: Black Vulmea;649206How far up their own asses have these guys crawled?

But, but, it has turns.

Black Vulmea

#43
April 25, 2013, 02:51:04 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;649213But, but, it has turns.
"Keeping track of time in the dungeon (or on any other type of adventure) is sometimes difficult, but it is at least as important as the accurate recording of time in the campaign. As has been mentioned elsewhere, the standard time breakdown is ten one-minute rounds to the turn, and six turns to the hour. All referees should keep a side record of time on a separate sheet of paper, marking off the turns as they pass (melees or other actions which result in fractional turns should be rounded up to make complete turns)." - 1e AD&D DMG, p. 38, sub-head "TIME IN THE DUNGEON"
"Of course five generic Kobolds in a plain room is going to be dull. Making it potentially not dull is kinda the GM\'s job." - #Ladybird, theRPGsite

Really Bad Eggs - swashbuckling roleplaying games blog  | Promise City - Boot Hill campaign blog

ACS

KenHR

#44
April 25, 2013, 02:52:15 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;649212That makes no sense.  And who the hell wants to keep track of hunger on a by turn basis?  Did you have rations for food today?  Yes?  OK, move on.  What next, keeping track of unshaven status and crotch rot progression on an hourly basis?

I'm always careful to make sure my PC's crotch is shaven before entering the dungeon.  No rot grubs.
For fuck\'s sake, these are games, people.

And no one gives a fuck about your ignore list.


Gompan
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