Aye, Dark Overlord is published by Fantasy Flight as a "Party game".  It is 4-6 players, and runs on cards.

Here's a fast intro.

And...

Here's the rulebook.

Here's my flat statement:

This game is a Roleplaying Game.

Can you make a reasonable case that says otherwise?  The evidence for or against is all there...

NO.

Its a card game with some elements of a roleplaying game.


Can you do a campaign of it?

Can you play something with it other than the basic situation that is included in that box?


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;326555NO.

Its a card game with some elements of a roleplaying game.

It's a game in which you take on a role, and in which the way you play your role has an impact on the outcome of play.

Why is campaigning or flexibility of situation a requirement?  

I mean, I'll agree that those things make an RPG better.  But I'm not seeing how they are required.  Please 'splain this to me.

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326556It's a game in which you take on a role, and in which the way you play your role has an impact on the outcome of play.

Why is campaigning or flexibility of situation a requirement?  

I mean, I'll agree that those things make an RPG better.  But I'm not seeing how they are required.  Please 'splain this to me.

It's not a roleplaying game because it lacks many elements roleplayers expect to find in a roleplaying game and player actions are restricted. There isn't even an illusion of freedom.

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;326559It's not a roleplaying game because it lacks many elements roleplayers expect to find in a roleplaying game

By which definition, Amber is not a roleplaying game.

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;326559and player actions are restricted.

Player actions are always restricted by rules.  Unless there are specific restrictions you mean.  In which case...   Name 'em.

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;326559There isn't even an illusion of freedom.

Would an illusion of freedom make it more-RPG?


(Note: I'm not necessarily "fighting to win" here.  I'm fighting to find out why you think it isn't, and I'm willing to tussle on that premise.)

If you believe that Monopoly is a RPG, then so is Aye, Dark Overlord.

Nowhere in the game is there any character creation rules and you cannot do anything besides make excuses or shift blame for the failure of the Dark Overlord's last evil scheme. Too limiting to be a RPG.

It is as advertised, a Party Game. It has more in common with a Solve the Murder game than a RPG.

Just like Murder Mystery Dinner games it might serve as a way to introduce the idea or Roleplaying games to those that haven't played them yet.

However, it is still NOT a roleplaying game.


- Ed C.

I don't know why my comment makes Amber not a roleplaying game. Except for dice, Amber has all the elements roleplayers expect to find in a roleplaying game.

In a roleplaying game, a player can have his character do anything it wants within the confines of the illusion of freedom. A player's character is technically free to go wherever it wishes to go and speak to whomever it wishes to speak and do whatever it wishes to do.

You can't introduce the illusion of freedom to Aye, Dark Overlord because it would change everything about the game. The game has a single goal for all players and players can't set their own goals.

Quote from: jeff37923;326574If you believe that Monopoly is a RPG, then so is Aye, Dark Overlord.

This part's cheap.

Monopoly does not require or assume that you speak as a character.

Quote from: jeff37923;326574Nowhere in the game is there any character creation rules and you cannot do anything besides make excuses or shift blame for the failure of the Dark overlord's last evil scheme. Too limiting to be a RPG.

This part isn't so cheap.

Why does character creation matter?  Are you talking about depth of roles, or just the fact that you get to make one up?  

In terms of limited action, if we play "deathmatch D&D", where I plunk you in a dungeon with pregens to kill baddies, is that far enough off-book that we're not actually playing an RPG, even though the game is written as one?

If I gave you the chance to choose two "special power" cards to represent your goblin in Overlord, and the ability to name them, would it be an RPG?  Would it be closer?  Why?

OMG that looks awesome - I'd seen the components of the Italian version and knew about the premise, but didn't know it was being translated.  

Of course it is a roleplaying game.  It is a game; you are required to play a role.  There's even a GM.  The Aye, Dark Master variant looks like more of a card game along the lines of Bang! to me, which fails the "required" test (Universalis fails that, too, which gives me pause).

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;326581In a roleplaying game, a player can have his character do anything it wants within the confines of the illusion of freedom. A player's character is technically free to go wherever it wishes to go and speak to whomever it wishes to speak and do whatever it wishes to do.

I can describe my past actions in Overlord just as I like.  Play takes the form of a roleplaying scene where the roleplay relates to a free-ranging flashback.  Are flashback scenes with fixed ends, but not fixed action, not-roleplaying?

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;326581You can't introduce the illusion of freedom to Aye, Dark Overlord because it would change everything about the game. The game has a single goal for all players and players can't set their own goals.

So.  Individual character goals matter?  Why?

I'd suggest that players can set their own goals, but that the universe of possibility is tightly contained.  My goal is to heap blame on Levi.  Levi's (doomed) goal is to placate the Overlord and spare all our lives.  Gary's goal is to arouse the Dark Overlord's ire as quickly as possible to end his miserable life, so he can be the next Overlord.  Natasha's goal is to see that Gary fails.  Bill's goal is to tell the funniest story he possibly can.  Paolo's goal is to win.

Quote from: Jason Morningstar;326585Of course it is a roleplaying game.  It is a game; you are required to play a role.

My god.  You agree with the Pundit!

Quote from: RPGPundit;325803An RPG is a GAME where you PLAY a ROLE.

But how can this BE?



(Pundit quote somewhat de-contexted for my own fucking amusement)

Quote from: Jason Morningstar;326590I'd suggest that players can set their own goals, but that the universe of possibility is tightly contained.  My goal is to heap blame on Levi.  Levi's (doomed) goal is to placate the Overlord and spare all our lives.  Gary's goal is to arouse the Dark Overlord's ire as quickly as possible to end his miserable life, so he can be the next Overlord.  Natasha's goal is to see that Gary fails.  Bill's goal is to tell the funniest story he possibly can.  Paolo's goal is to win.

Waitaminute.  

I'm pretty sure he was explicitly talking about pure character goals, and it looks like you've got them all tangled up with player goals there.

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326582This part's cheap.

Monopoly does not require or assume that you speak as a character.

Neither does Aye, Dark Overlord. You speak as a excuse-making Player, no more depth than that. The Shoe and the Thimble in Monopoly have similar, if not more depth.

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326582This part isn't so cheap.

Why does character creation matter?  Are you talking about depth of roles, or just the fact that you get to make one up?  

Both. A role-playing game requires a character so that the Player may play the role. The depth of role becomes a sliding scale in how extensively the character may interact with the setting of the game - Aye, Dark Overlord limits the interaction too greatly to be a RPG.

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326582In terms of limited action, if we play "deathmatch D&D", where I plunk you in a dungeon with pregens to kill baddies, is that far enough off-book that we're not actually playing an RPG, even though the game is written as one?

Yes. Then you are playing a wargame and not a RPG since the only option you have is to "kill baddies". It becomes closer to a RPG when you can use more options to interact with the baddies than just combat.

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;326582If I gave you the chance to choose two "special power" cards to represent your goblin in Overlord, and the ability to name them, would it be an RPG?  Would it be closer?  Why?

No. The Player is still limited to using a finite number of cards as pre-determined options with which to interact with the setting. Not enough freedom for the Players.