Quote from: Benoist;412718Bear with me guys. Complete 40K noob here. So when you say "I'm using my non-Codex Pigs in Space Chapter, based on the Space Marines Codex", you basically mean that you started from vanilla space marines and went custom on the actual composition of your army, correct?

Kinda/Sorta.  You have the basic idea within the context of using the army lists; its more complicated within the setting background as far as Codex and Non-Codex armies.  The Space Wolves, for example, rejected Roboute Guilleman's re-organization completely when it was introduced.  Their org chart is much differenrt from other marines. One result of this is that the Space Wolves are more numerous than other chapters.  Others deviated away from the codex to one degree or another over time.

Codex definition one exists outside the setting itself.  Basically, which rulebook was your army made from?

I could put down a group of all melee vikings representing a feral world army, my opponent needs to know I'm using the Codex:Orks rules.

In this definition there are a few different set of Space Marine rules
Codex: Space Marines, usually called "vanilla"
Codex: Blood Angels
Codex: Black Templars
Codex: Dark Angels
Codex: Space Wolves
Codex: Chaos Space Marines

Codex definition two exists inside the game.  There is a massive tome called the Codex Astartes that contains the collected military strategies of the Space Marines as gathered by Rouboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines.  This Codex details, among other things, organizational limits and military strategies.

Here's where they merge...

A "Codex Chapter" is a chapter that in the setting follows the traditions of the Codex Astartes very closely.  A "Non-Codex Chapter" introduces a decent amount of changes.

Generally speaking, if I'm using the rules as presented in the Codex: SPace Marines, then I'm using a "Codex Chapter".  If I'm using the rules as presented in one of the other gamebooks, then I am playing a "Non-Codex Chapter".

However, these rules are very loosely defined.  I could, for example, take the Chaos Marine Legion the Night Lords and decide that the Codex: Chaos Space Marine rules suck ass, so I am going to use the Codex: Space Wolves to represent them.

Or, I could take the Imperial Fists, who in the setting of the game are a "Codex Chapter" and decide to use Codex: Black Templars to represent them.  Die-hard fans might call you names, but nothing they can do about it.

As far as customizing a ruleset goes, as long as your not in an official tournament, anything goes as long as you tell your opponent beforehand and he agrees.

Quote from: Benoist;412718Bear with me guys. Complete 40K noob here. So when you say "I'm using my non-Codex Pigs in Space Chapter, based on the Space Marines Codex", you basically mean that you started from vanilla space marines and went custom on the actual composition of your army, correct?

Yeah, sorta. The main choice you, the player makes is "Am I using Codex: Space Marines, or am I using Codex: Space Wolves, or Codex: Chaos Space Marines, etc.?"

Quote from: Benoist;412674Can you use say Space Marines in Necromunda?

Yup, but they'd be insanely powered compared to gangs.   SM use the best powered armor and best weapons.  Gangers are usually unarmored (or flak at best) and toting the lower end weaponry.  

Quote from: Benoist;412674Can you play an RPG using Necromunda rules for tactical battles?

You could easily use the 40k Kill Team rules for a RPG.  

We ran a Mordheim RPG campaign using the minis rules and tacked on career skills from WFRP 1e.   The Necromunda rules aren't much different.

I'm hoping to run a Necromunda RPG campaign in the future, but I will use Savage Worlds to keep it speedy.

I used to play a fair amount of 40K... we still get in a game of Rogue Trader now and then... but if I were to pick a sci fi skirmish game I'd go with something a bit more 'evolved'... I'd keep the setting but use 5150 from Two Hour Wargames.
Reasons:
1. The rules were not developed with the 'tournament' mindset of 40K... they are less concerned with 'balance' and more interested in creating interesting battles.
2. It's goal is NOT selling/promoting miniatures from any one manufacturer (but still has fan conversion for most all of the 40K forces where they play more like the 40K fiction than they do in 40K).
3. There are rules for designing your own troops (you could play Klingons vs. Eldar if you wanted).
4. The turn system isn't 'IGOUGO' (your guys don't just sit there and get shot up during the opponent's turn).
5. It works with much smaller forces than 40K.
6. Real world tactics will actually work (as opposed to nonsense things that happen in 40K).
7. 5150 is good for solo play because of the way the command/reaction system works... you are not in total absolute control of your forces... you can give them orders but they might ignore them to respond to some other situation.
8. There is a great yahoo group where the developers frequently post... with lots of fan generated materials.

Shockforce (Warengine is the free online version Link ) is another rules set that a lot of ex-40K addicts swear by.

Stargrunt 2 is another stellar choice for sci fi wargaming but not ideal for 40K style space fantasy... it's more 'straight' (no overt psychic powers or magic). It's also a free download Link.

If you've got to have an actual GW 40K game then I'd pick Necromunda... lots of good fan-generated stuff available on the Web... smaller forces... more scenario-based. It's basically 2nd edition 40K with a bit more detail (2nd edition was the last before GW became very corporate and centered their games on 'tournaments'). A more economical buy-in if nothing else.

Caveat: I haven't played the latest edition of 40k rules, I've heard rumors that they've moved the rules a bit closer to the original game... but it still seems to be very much concerned with 'tournament' play, which I have NO interest in.
40k's main selling point is that lots of other people play it, you can go anywhere and find opponents... but if you already have friends to play with then there are a MUCH better alternatives that still allow you to play with 40k figs in the 40k setting.

If you go for Orks the best suggestion I can give you is

BOYZ BOYZ BOYZ BOYZ BOYZ BOYZ!

Seriously if you don't have enough Boyz you ain't going to last long!

Simlasa's been very thorough with some alternatives - another option you may want to consider if you want to personalise non-WH40K figures could be Fast and Dirty which is published by Ivan Sorensen who normally posts at rpg.net

It's a free download and the 4th edition does seem to have more character than Stargrunt (which I do enjoy):

http://www.freewebs.com/weaselfierce/

For minis I have a load of old Space Marines, Imperial Guard, some AT-43 from the starter set, as well as anything else I can find on EBay - VOID minis, some Space Rangers and even some Blood Berets - they can all be statted up with characteristics for some flavour in FAD.

Anyway, have fun with whatever you decide.

Benoist, have a look at this thread.

Quote from: Windjammer;414773Benoist, have a look at this thread.

OK. Having a look right now.

Quote from: Frank TrollmanThe third thing to note is that the fluff, such as it was in the grimdarkness of grimdark future space where there is only war, has been fucked. In the eye. With a penis that had chaos mutations or something. The banner carrier for this is the Space Wolves. They are classically speaking an annoying Norsey Norse Norse faction of Spehss Marines who fight you with their rugged Norseness and have a weird set of doctrines about troop setup that made them arbitrarily incredibly overpowered in 2nd edition rules. But in the 5th edition rewrite... they are basically just Wolves. In Space. Apparently someone read the codex title hyper literally and now they have a bunch of Wolf shit for no reason. So... men in power armor riding wolves. Robot wolves. Werewolves. Cannons that shoot wolf teeth. Psychic powers that drop wolves on people. It goes on. And that's really unfortunate.

AHAHAHA Frank thinks it sucks, but when I read that, I thought "THAT IS SO AWESOME!!"

Very careful, there's a lot of nonsense in that thread, and the bit you quoted is one of several things Frank gets corrected on (not that I think he's even the most important voice in that thread). Still, there's always a freshness to these things at The Gaming Den that you can't get here anymore. Same for Warmachine, to link another thread I thoroughly recommend. Mind you, I'm not a miniatures player at all in the canonical sense, as I don't have the time to paint and glue, and prefer to try out these games by proxying (e.g. Warmachine/Hordes by Dreamblade minis).

If I were to give a serious recommendation for a GW game, I'd urge you to bypass WH FB and 40K altogether, and go for Warmaster. Rules can be downloaded for free. Best design of Priestley, ever, from a period when GW still cared (at least in part) about making games. Priestley even recommends you to proxy the whole game with cardboard pieces (which, I should add, works splendidly and makes for a brilliantly portable game) to see if the game is for you. I've had some of the best gaming nights of all my life around a lively Warmaster table. Absolutely recommend playing it in teams of 2+ players a side.

Wonder what changes in GW designs will happen now that they fired Priestley.

I've never read anything but praise for Warmaster... though I've never tried it myself. I thought Benoist was more specifically interested in the 40K setting though...

Is there any real word out that Rick Priestly was 'fired'? or is that just conjecture? He seems to have outside projects (Black Powder) that he is working on, maybe he decided to shift his main effort over to that?

Another really solid GW project is Battlefleet Gothic.  It's not perfect but in many ways comes close and the rules are also free.  Collecting mini's for it though is something else.  But I haven't played any other fleet games yet that really capture the feel of giant warships broad siding and battering each other while faster fighters fly around and harass them.