Someone somewhere has to have a decent set of rules for this game, King Stannis surely you're not playing the rules that come in the packet?
For the most part we do, Bagpuss. We have used Teflon Billy's suggested "coming about" rule whenever a ship is docked. It seems fairly realistic that it takes a whole game-turn to turn the ship around. This does have a tendency to punish those who hunt for treasure compared to those who try to win by blasting the other player's fleet to the bottom of the sea.
As for wholesale rule changes? Not really. I just have so many irons in the fire I haven't had time to sit down and think about house-rules very much. The printed rules aren't perfect, but they are adequate in my opinion.
Now, we have played some of the printed scenarios out there on the net. Some of them are pretty cool. There was a good one with a sinking Spanish Galleon and both sides had to race to it and get the gold before it sunk.
You may want to check out the Savage Worlds RPG "Pirates" game when it is released. That may have more detailed and realistic combat rules. You can also go to boardgamegeek.com and see if any of those turbonerds have cooked anything up.
Glad to see there are others out here who play this game. I used to have a lot of fun with it when it first came out but recently haven't found anyone to play with. Got a few names at a local con so I hope I can drum up some players.
I find the rules aren't bad, if you are just playing a fun game. They have eliminated the come-about rule I do believe, at least they had in the Barbary Coast expansion.
Could someone please post this "coming about" rule real quick, I'm not familiar with it. I've looked before for any kind of rules about turning in the Pirates game but the only reference to turning I found was the Sloop's special ability to rotate 180deg. Is there restriction on turning a ship that applies to the other hull types?
I think that's the point there arn't any restrictions on turning except for turning 180 degress so players would turn 179. :brood:
Ah...ok, the way we have played up until now is that you have to measure out your turn...you could turn 180 but the turn had to be measured out (like from the bow before turning to measure out your move), basically shorting your move by the length of your ship (in the case of a 180 turn)....whereas the sloop could either flip, then measure out a move, or measure out a full move then flip, to make use of it's special quality.
Our "coming about" rule came from Teflon Billy. It simply said that once you were docked at a home or a wild island, you had to spend one entire movement action just turning your ship around in place. Then the next turn you could start to move your L+S, etc. The problem was that it kind of punishes those who go for treasure and rewards those who play a more offensive "gunship" strategy. It can make your ship a sitting duck while coming about.
I suppose that rule makes sense...it takes time to run out the sheets and get the big tub movin. :jollyroger:
Quote from: King_StannisOur "coming about" rule came from Teflon Billy. It simply said that once you were docked at a home or a wild island, you had to spend one entire movement action just turning your ship around in place. Then the next turn you could start to move your L+S, etc. The problem was that it kind of punishes those who go for treasure and rewards those who play a more offensive "gunship" strategy. It can make your ship a sitting duck while coming about.
Except I believe you can't be attacked while in your home port under the standard rules. But lets be honest it's a boring game when the treasure hunters can always out run the others, which is what I found more of a problem.
Quote from: BagpussExcept I believe you can't be attacked while in your home port under the standard rules. But lets be honest it's a boring game when the treasure hunters can always out run the others, which is what I found more of a problem.
That's certainly a possibility. But you could always do a blockade around the other person's home island. When they come to bring treasure to their home island, you are waiting Throw down a becalmed and you can nullify their strategy.
Quote from: BagpussSomeone somewhere has to have a decent set of rules for this game, King Stannis surely you're not playing the rules that come in the packet?
I have some homebrew multi-layer rules, which basically standardize all the ships. I'll dig them up if you want them.
Nothing would stop both sides from having fast ships either. Just like many other games....combined arms forces seem to be the order of the day for a winning strategy. A big tough ship, a small fast ship, and maybe one or two middle-of-the-road ships for back-up if ya have the points.
Quote from: King_StannisOur "coming about" rule came from Teflon Billy. It simply said that once you were docked at a home or a wild island, you had to spend one entire movement action just turning your ship around in place. Then the next turn you could start to move your L+S, etc. The problem was that it kind of punishes those who go for treasure and rewards those who play a more offensive "gunship" strategy. It can make your ship a sitting duck while coming about.
Yup, and that is exactly what it was intended to do as well (whew!)
Basically, we wanted Blockade Tactics to work; and as written in the core rules they don't. We wanted people coming away from their island to, basically, get shot at if there were ships lying in wait.
Now, does it penalize Treasure Hunters? Maybe a bit. But keep in mind that Blockading ships are, essentially, unusable for anything else...and if the Blockader is going to be useful at all it needs to be a pricey ship 9unles syou are using the grossly underpriced
Longshanks; easily the best Blackader in the game)
It also makes Captains very valuable (as they can just start blasting during their "Come About" turn), same with Forts.
But the truth of it is...we just really despise the mechanical, Gold-Gathering win. There are legions of FLGS card-goofs out there who want nothing more from the game than to be able to win in one turn with clever use of abusive cards, Dropped Forts and fast ships with explorers followed by Cargo ships.
It's a winning combo. If you are smrt, you play it in tournament.
it's why we avoid tournaments.
We prefer a more exciting game.
Quote from: Teflon BillyYup, and that is exactly what it was intended to do as well (whew!)
Basically, we wanted Blockade Tactics to work; and as written in the core rules they don't. We wanted people coming away from their island to, basically, get shot at if there were ships lying in wait.
Now, does it penalize Treasure Hunters? Maybe a bit. But keep in mind that Blockading ships are, essentially, unusable for anything else...and if the Blockader is going to be useful at all it needs to be a pricey ship 9unles syou are using the grossly underpriced Longshanks; easily the best Blackader in the game)
It also makes Captains very valuable (as they can just start blasting during their "Come About" turn), same with Forts.
But the truth of it is...we just really despise the mechanical, Gold-Gathering win. There are legions of FLGS card-goofs out there who want nothing more from the game than to be able to win in one turn with clever use of abusive cards, Dropped Forts and fast ships with explorers followed by Cargo ships.
It's a winning combo. If you are smrt, you play it in tournament.
it's why we avoid tournaments.
We prefer a more exciting game.
Even with the little that I've played the game, I've seen that tactic, so I think I agree with your reasoning about the rule, and if I get to play again I will definitely use it :)
Most of the guys I know around my area who play alot pretty much dispense with the whole loot gathering side of the game, form huge fleets, and then duke it out with each other :)
Quote from: Teflon BillyYup, and that is exactly what it was intended to do as well (whew!)
Basically, we wanted Blockade Tactics to work; and as written in the core rules they don't. We wanted people coming away from their island to, basically, get shot at if there were ships lying in wait.
Now, does it penalize Treasure Hunters? Maybe a bit. But keep in mind that Blockading ships are, essentially, unusable for anything else...and if the Blockader is going to be useful at all it needs to be a pricey ship 9unles syou are using the grossly underpriced Longshanks; easily the best Blackader in the game)
It also makes Captains very valuable (as they can just start blasting during their "Come About" turn), same with Forts.
But the truth of it is...we just really despise the mechanical, Gold-Gathering win. There are legions of FLGS card-goofs out there who want nothing more from the game than to be able to win in one turn with clever use of abusive cards, Dropped Forts and fast ships with explorers followed by Cargo ships.
It's a winning combo. If you are smrt, you play it in tournament.
it's why we avoid tournaments.
We prefer a more exciting game.
Yeah - I hate the treasure-only dorks. I think I related on the old NTL about Shakes the Clown and his totally munchkinized fleet. It was very gay. The problem is that I play usually against my buddy and he is a balls to the wall attacker...almost every time. He does send out one of his ships for treasure as a token occasionally but he has almost never won on treasure - it's always been by blowing away my fleet.
I just like a nice balance. Get some treasure and try to win that way occasionally, but don't be a retard about it and jam all these idiotic ships into your fleet. There are also times when I want a couple of hard, pipe-hittin' nigga ships and just go at it like Ali and Frazier. :)
TB, do you guys allow ships to shoot at a ship docked at a wild island?
Quote from: King_StannisTB, do you guys allow ships to shoot at a ship docked at a wild island?
Almost always, as it--in much the same manner that the turnabout rule creates a need for "Blockader" ships--creates a need for an "Escort" class of ship.
In it's Core Rules version, PotSM is an idiotically simple game; and as such, it is idiotically simple to break. In tournament play, the builds that are competitive every single time tend to be ridiculous "Rule stacks" that don;t refelct a single damn thing abut the setting (Sacrificing an endless pile of Oarsmen to get extra actions out of El Fantasma pops immediately to mind)
But the Core Rules are a solid enough foundation that it's easy to add and subtrat little "tweaks" that more accurately reflect an "Age of Sail" setting.
Something we haven't quite hammered out about the new sets is that the Rule about ships being unable to fire through their own masts worked beautifully in the First Set to model the need for "Broadsides" (not the special ability, just the necessity to point your ships port ot starboard side at the target)
But with the Schooners...I mean, the placement of the masts (with sails parallelling the keel) makes for some fucking
odd mechanics. I mean, the ship can adequately fire forward, but is incapable of broadsiding. Also, the schooner's ability to swing it's stern around at the end of the turn allows for some pretty odd ramming tactics.
One thing I will say though is that Stannis's Islands add
immeasurably to the fun of the game. If anyone plays regularly, I can;t recommend enough that you buy some of his islands. The care and attention that goes into them really shows up on the table.
Quote from: Teflon BillyOne thing I will say though is that Stannis's Islands add immeasurably to the fun of the game. If anyone plays regularly, I can;t recommend enough that you buy some of his islands. The care and attention that goes into them really shows up on the table.
You are much too kind, my friend. :)
Quote from: Teflon BillySomething we haven't quite hammered out about the new sets is that the Rule about ships being unable to fire through their own masts worked beautifully in the First Set to model the need for "Broadsides" (not the special ability, just the necessity to point your ships port ot starboard side at the target)
But with the Schooners...I mean, the placement of the masts (with sails parallelling the keel) makes for some fucking odd mechanics. I mean, the ship can adequately fire forward, but is incapable of broadsiding. Also, the schooner's ability to swing it's stern around at the end of the turn allows for some pretty odd ramming tactics.
I haven't been able to get any of the new packs, and so I'm unfamiliar with the not-shooting-through-masts rule. How is that a problem for schooners, and what does the orientation of the sails have to do with it? Sorry for being so ignorant about it, but it sounds like a rule I'd support, and when I get to play again I'd love to have a set of rules/house-rules that makes sense and adds to the challenge/fun of the game.
Quote from: SigmundI haven't been able to get any of the new packs, and so I'm unfamiliar with the not-shooting-through-masts rule.
It's not a new rule, it's a core rule presented in the first set...
Quote from: PotSM RulesWhena cannon shoots, draw an invisible "line of fire" from the associated mast's centre-point to any part of the target ship. If this line crossed your own ships masts or sails, islands, or other ships than the target ship, the shot cannot be made.
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Quote from: Teflon BillyIt's not a new rule, it's a core rule presented in the first set...
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Ok, but I'm still having trouble seeing why this is a problem with schooners.
Quote from: SigmundOk, but I'm still having trouble seeing why this is a problem with schooners.
note the sails. how they overlap each other mast.
Plus, because they are not square rigged, less is blocked on a schooneras opposed to a traditional ship.
Oh, well the few times I've played we've only gone by the actual masts, not the sails too. Guess we were kinda doing it wrong. Ah well, I see what ya mean now, the gaff-rigged sails kinda mess up the system. Gotcha.
The rules are fairly simple, and many of the issues come from people trying to break them and find loopholes, but we haven't run into a lot of problems... and a blockade fleet can work without the need for house rules - you just need enough speed and place your home island close enough to the enemy to get between him and home when he's trying to unload. I played a blockade fleet this Sunday at the FLGS tourney and smashed every fleet I came up against.
We don't use a "come about" rule when leaving an island and it doesn't hurt the blockaders as far as I can tell - we use the curvature of the boat when measuring movement to determine the max turning angle allowed. And as far as I know, you can always shoot at a boat docked at a wild island unless it has a special ability.
It's true that speed is still probably the most important aspect to winning a treasure hunt game, but with some Helmsman on board a blockade fleet can still be very, very effective.
I'm trying to think of the few house rules we use, but can't right now. I'll post again if I remember.
Quote from: Sniktch...we use the curvature of the boat when measuring movement to determine the max turning angle allowed.
How does this work?
Quote from: SigmundHow does this work?
Line up the end of the white or red line with the bow of the boat. You can position the measuring bar at any angle as long as it does not cause the boat to move. The end result is that small boats and schooners are able to turn farther than big, lumbering 5 masters.
Hopefully that's clear enough, otherwise I'll have to try to make some diagrams or something...
Quote from: SniktchLine up the end of the white or red line with the bow of the boat. You can position the measuring bar at any angle as long as it does not cause the boat to move. The end result is that small boats and schooners are able to turn farther than big, lumbering 5 masters.
Hopefully that's clear enough, otherwise I'll have to try to make some diagrams or something...
No, that's good...and it's brilliant :) Not surprisingly, I never thought of that, and I haven't yet had the opportunity to play enough to be taught it by someone else. I love it, thanks. Any more tidbits?
Heh, had to re-read the thread to remember our house rule. Here it is:
Treasure in forts does not count towards victory. In order to have it counted the treasure must be transported to your home island!
We use forts for controlling space and staking a claim on an island, but the whole "I build a fort on this island and win!" thing is too stupid. It's just a way to protect the goods until you can get a ship there to transport it back. :)
We also allow boats with the "shoot then move" ability to Move and shoot and then move again with a Captain. The fact that the latest set introduced a character who costs 9 points and has those abilities combined makes it pretty clear to us that the game designers intended it to be so.
Really, my friends and I find a lot of this to be common sense, but we're not spending our time looking for holes in the system, we're just having fun. I have yet to run into one of these rules lawyer treasure hunters in my neck of the woods, but when I do, I will keelhaul him as he deserves.
So after much reading on the game and the fact that I've been on a pirate kick lately (nothing to do with the movie release) I picked up a few packs. Haven't played many games but I think I'm hooked. It's not perfect but at the same time it's been fantastic. I think I still prefer the WizKids Crimson Skies game overall. However this is a very close second.
So on the turning about thing perhaps I'm too new still to see a problem. But if you measure the turn of a docked ship from the front of the boat and move it from there you need pretty much a full turn to turn around anyway. We rule that you can't measure the movement of a boat if the card passes through the boat. ie. it can't physically turn on itslef, a boat at best drifts when it turns. So if you place the move card at the front and angle it away from the boat about the best you'll get is a 45 degree movement (some boats are better then others). If you have a ship that has two move markers (L+S or S+S etc). It can turn quicker but it's still not going to be able to make a complete 180 and make it's full move distance.