Quote from: Bren;805614"Engrossment." Well you've made that abundantly clear. But those aren't the sort of games we were talking about playing.

Har de fucking har.







(actually, that's pretty darn funny )

Quote from: Old Geezer;805602Sadly, "immersion" is one of those words with no fixed definition and some very odd assumed meanings.  Some people have said "I literally get so immersed I no longer see the room I am sitting in, I see the actual fantasy world," which sounds a trifle... peculiar.

I myself prefer the term "engrossment."

Ah! Like the terms 'story gaming', 'story arcs', and 'railroading', all of which have specific meanings for me and for my gaming - but which have very different meanings to today's gamer?

Quote from: chirine ba kal;805700Ah! Like the terms 'story gaming', 'story arcs', and 'railroading', all of which have specific meanings for me and for my gaming - but which have very different meanings to today's gamer?

Pretty much, yeah.  And like many of those terms, the definition changes based on if the speaker is fur it or agin it.

There's a reason our high school debate coaches taught us "first, define your terms."

And to me, 'railroading' involves track and flanged wheels...

Quote from: jan paparazzi;804775The miniatures look nice btw. A friend of mine maybe wants to get into wargaming, so I thought I might take a look at this topic.

One of the hobby's dirty little secrets is that it's far easier and cheaper to get into than many would have you believe.

Free or demo rules, couple of boxes of 1/72 plastic figures and some stones from the garden on a coloured tablecloth - you can start for $20.

Plenty of great boardgames will give you a complete start with a pile of figures and a printed card gaming surface for under $100.

Quote from: Momotaro;805872One of the hobby's dirty little secrets is that it's far easier and cheaper to get into than many would have you believe.

Free or demo rules, couple of boxes of 1/72 plastic figures and some stones from the garden on a coloured tablecloth - you can start for $20.

Plenty of great boardgames will give you a complete start with a pile of figures and a printed card gaming surface for under $100.

I resurrected Necromunda in my area at negligible cost. The rules are freely available online (improved by dedicated fans in fact) and have great depth, so it only took two boxes of plastic Catachan Imperial guard, two metal sergeant figures, and four metal heavy weapon figures. I painted up two gangs in red and blue and I lend one gang to visiting guests. I turn random household garbage into ruined underhive terrain. Cost about 80 bucks.

Of course, things are much cheaper if you're not a stickler for WYSIWYG.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;805898I resurrected Necromunda in my area at negligible cost. The rules are freely available online (improved by dedicated fans in fact) and have great depth, so it only took two boxes of plastic Catachan Imperial guard, two metal sergeant figures, and four metal heavy weapon figures. I painted up two gangs in red and blue and I lend one gang to visiting guests. I turn random household garbage into ruined underhive terrain. Cost about 80 bucks.

Of course, things are much cheaper if you're not a stickler for WYSIWYG.

I will more than likely indulge in resurrecting Gorkamorka next year, given how damned easy it is to get Orks, and these days fair play to GW, the truk kits come with all the bits that you would use to upgrade your mob vehicles through a campaign. Muties and Diggas are easy. And I think we finally have some decent plastic grots for a rebel grot gang. Just need to do conversions for the vehicles for them.

Homemade scenery is always best - it's amazing what a lick of paint can do to tin cans, old electrical bits and food packaging :cool:

One of the big questions about immersion in wargaming is what makes a game "immersive"?  Nicely painted minis and a good layout, player actions or rules?

On the rules front, we've been playing Lion Rampant from Osprey recently.  Simple set of rules for medieval skirmishes, with about half a dozen generic special abilities for flavour.  And we've played fantasy (minus magic) with them easily - brute strength armies, skirmisher armies, rabble armies all play just about right.

It has some player input right at the start - you can make boasts that win victory points if you achieve them  ("I shall slay your captain", "My knights will draw first blood").

As I turn into an Old Git, I find big rulesets with tons of special cases and exceptions, designed to capture flavour, just don't to it for me any more.  I want simple emulation and the tactics to come from troop types on the board - not army building and interaction with the rules.

Not that those special rules can't be fun - my favourite is the commisar rule from 40k, where you get to make another morale save if you kill one of your own troops...

And yes, I'm in it for beautiful tabletops - I can do a decent layout but I just don't have the space to store the beautiful gameboards I'd love to build.  A couple of boxes of generic and genre-related scenery go a long way though.

Then one thing I find hardest to emulate is the mindset of the time.  I've mentioned fog of war and limited control, but how many players would steamroller their own troops to get to the enemy (Hannibal at Zama).  Or "Caedite eos...".

How do other folks like to get the "feel" of the game?