TheRPGSite

A friend of mine gave me the 10-day demo, and it looks intriguing. Too bad it's Eberron.

Have you guys tried it?

It's terrible.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with D&D except in name, and to top it off, the game that's there is one of the most repetitive and idiotic on the market.

You know how once you get to the endgame in WoW all there is left to do is run the same damn instances over and over again?  For some fuckin' dumbass reason Turbine thought that would be the perfect model for an entire game.

I have a different take.

I rather enjoy the experience.  It's a more action based game, where you are snaking, jumping tumbling and actively attacking your opponent it's not a typical MMO where you click a target then sit back and watch your character attack it to death.

For playing a thief it rocks, it really delivers on the feeling of sneaking around a dungeon.

Mechanically compared to other D&D video games I think it does a great job of giving a game that feels like you are really controlling a D&D character and I love that feeling.

Problems with the game are that unless you are in a group (really the only way to do it) you'll be grinding a lot, running the same dungeons over and over again and that can get boring fast depending on your attention span.  It also doesn't having that feeling of a living world that is going on around you.  Everything is instanced so your only interaction is really trying to find a group and hanging out in the bar.

The other big issue, for me, was that because it's a dungeon crawl you have to basically stick with it to the end of the dungeon, you get no real experience for killing beasties.  All the real exp is for completing the particular dungeon.  So if you only have an hour to play in one shot well you either have to play a small dungeon at a normal pace or race a large dungeon and miss the point of the experience.  So for me with a kid and a life I don't always have that luxury to sit for extended play.

I do really love playing this game.  But I only could hang with it for about 6 months before dropping my subscription.  My lack of time for extended play is a big factor it just doesn't work well when you get into the medium to higher levels.

If this was a free game though and not a monthly $$$ plan it'd be in my top favorite games of all time list.

So, on a lark, my friend and I each bought copies of the game because it was going for only $15 at EB.  For some reason I felt like giving it another go, even though I hated it last time.

Here's the thing:  Everything I've ever said about this game is one hundred percent true.  It is a clusterfuck of epic proportions, one massive design flaw after another, and overall, it makes me want to smack the developers in the face with a wet trout in one hand and a copy of the PHB in another.

And yet, I can't stop playing it.  We've been playing it constantly for days now.  Sunday was literally nothing but one long mostly uninterrupted play session.  I have thus far tried almost every class in the game.

It's basically a terrible game, but there's just enough of the core dungeon crawling gameplay that still manages to shine through all the dross.  It's barely D&D at all, but they managed to keep just enough that the part of me that has been desperate to play some lately is just gobbling it up like some mindless zombie, even as the more conscious parts of me are screaming endlessly at the unending waves of fucking kobolds, the unimaginative quest design, their failure to keep up the dungeon focus by introducing what are basically standard MMO grind zones, bit after bit of the rules that wind up being flat out wrong for no good fucking reason, and just the constant stream of "What the fuck were thinking" moments that often seem to happen every time I turn around.

I don't get it.  I hate this game, and yet, I don't, or at least, I can't stop playing it anyway.

Quote from: J ArcaneI don't get it.  I hate this game, and yet, I don't, or at least, I can't stop playing it anyway.

Ah the beauty of MMOs.  They are the computer game that no one actually wants made but yet are strangely addictive.  Even more so if you have friends playing.  I might need a 12 step program to quit City of Heroes.  Or trade that addiction for the next MMO to come down the pipeline...  :)

Probably even worse than every other MMORPG...

I played the free 10 day trial and I lost interest after day 3.  There is no reason why but nothing in the game really seemed to compel me to play it.  I had more fun with WoW and CoH but I have stopping anything with a monthly fee due to financial concerns.

I downloaded it and signed up for the demo but could never get it to work. I tried a number of different things to fix it from advice I found on the Webs of Intra, but nothing worked and I couldn't really bring myself to care awfully much.

I mean, if it's THAT much of a pain in the ass to get to work, I can only imagine what the actual game is like.

This thread on the official forums (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=139406) is like the epitome of what is wrong with the quest design in this game.

I could never understand the appeal of MMORPGs...They have just about nothing that makes tabletop RPGs or quality single player CRPGs great:

a good storyline, a dynamic gameworld,  real choices that directly impact characterization and story progression, and , yeah, fun combat without the mindless repetition.

Convenience combined with virtual society is what makes MMOs as popular as they are, because you can play as you like for how long you like while taking advantage of what existing within a society that you can keep at arm's length allows.  No need to wait all week, or waste time doing stupid small talk, or having to imagine that Bob is really a hot chick, or master the intricate complexities of the mechanics, or do anything other than log in and play your character competantly.  By comparison, TRPGs are often a big pain in the ass so the social component needs to be emphasized greatly to make them appealing to the common man.

Agreed to a point. Convenience is a good argument in favor of MMORPGS, but for that same reason I play single player computer RPGs (which I personally find to be a far more rewarding and deeper gameplay experience than MMORPGs). Sure, they lack that "social" aspect that MMORPGs specialize in, but everything else they offer more than makes up for it.

EDIT:That said, there are people who won't play MMORPGs unless their friend(s) are online. I've known people that just balk at the concept of playing "solo." Even without this, the fact that I can't just play the game by myself and need the help of others to advance  , is a big reason why I don't like MMORPGs. In other words the cooperative play favored by MMORPGs  results in other types of "waiting problems" that some ascribe to tabletop RPGs.
i.e. "Can't do X- mission by myself.. Let me spend an hour or so recruiting some players (BORING!) so that we can complete it together!"
Not to mention, the let's spend half an hour or so traveling from point A to point B on the map...

There is just too much time spent sitting around and doing nothing in MMORPGs.
Other types of RPGs (whether single player computer or tabletop)offer a tighter, more cohesive, and ultimately more enjoyable experience. YMMV.
 
 *Sigh*.. I guess I'll never understand the MMORPG craze.

Quote from: LancerI could never understand the appeal of MMORPGs...They have just about nothing that makes tabletop RPGs or quality single player CRPGs great:

They replicate the dungeon/wilderness crawl quite faithfully especially on the first run through the gameworld.

Quote from: Lancera good storyline, a dynamic gameworld,  real choices that directly impact characterization and story progression, and , yeah, fun combat without the mindless repetition.

First you are right that these are advantages of tabletop RPGs. However the mindless repetition is not as pronounced in the lastest MMORPG. This is because games are supplying quests at a much more intense level then the original set of MMMORPGs. City of Heroes and Lord of the Rings Online are among the best example of this. World of Warcraft does this to an extent as well.

While mindless repetition was problem of the first MMORPGs, the current problem is having to form large (12 to 36 players) groups to enjoy the best content of the game. Most of the most recent release take a stab at trying to overcome this problem. Usually by providing multiple paths.

Quote from: LancerEven without this, the fact that I can't just play the game by myself and need the help of others to advance  , is a big reason why I don't like MMORPGs. In other words the cooperative play favored by MMORPGs  results in other types of "waiting problems" that some ascribe to tabletop RPGs.
i.e. "Can't do X- mission by myself.. Let me spend an hour or so recruiting some players (BORING!) so that we can complete it together!"
Not to mention, the let's spend half an hour or so traveling from point A to point B on the map...

Both Lord of the Rings Online and City of Heroes are Solo friendly. Sure there there are high end raids but they are not the only way to get cool stuff or do cool stuff. LOTRO in recent books has introduced Solo instance quests. One I had to track and follow gollum around which was pretty neat.

I vastly prefer LOTRO to Obvilion. Although I have to say Half Life 2 is was a notch better than LOTRO.

The next round of MMORPGS are introducing more game within a game system where you are doing things with your characters than just trying to level or gain loot. The upcoming Conan and the two pirate MMORPGS come to mind.

Until MMORPGs get rid of that "persistent gameworld" idea in favor of a more realistically dynamic one, a good story with meaningful player choices that affect the gameworld,  good dialogue with branching options, and eliminate the tedium, there is just not much appeal for me there.

Oblivion ok.. But for me, I think more of games like Planescape:Torment, Fallout, KotOR, and Ultima VII as the standard to which I judge all CRPGS (including MMORPGs) by.

I love to see MMORPGS mature and evolve, I really do, but I do not hold out much hope. When I play CRPGS, I am specifically attracted to games that try to capture the tabletop experience. MMORPGs are still far away from that-- but then again they appeal to a different type of gamer anyway.

I play World of Warcraft.

This week saw the release of Patch 2.4, which progressed the Burning Crusade narrative to its conclusion with the opening of the Isle of Quel'Danus (Sunwell Isle) and the final move of Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider in his quest to save his people--the Blood Elves--from ruin.

This patch introduced a new faction--the Shattered Sun Offensive--and a lot of new, repeatable (on a daily basis) quests that players need to complete in order for the SSO to successfully assault and conquer Sunwell Isle from Kael and his allies.  Every player, Horde and Alliance alike, that can contribute to the effort (i.e. every character capable of completing the quests, so all PCs of levels 68+, preferably 70th level) will see the progress of the offensive as it happens.  Once complete, all but a handful of locations will be pacified and reduced to mop-op operations.  In addition, there is a small-group dungeon instance (Magister's Terrace) and a raid-group dungeon (Sunwell Plateau) for players to explore and hostile leaders therein to terminate for the good of all concerned.

For a lot of gamers, events like this are what keeps them playing.  Partaking in a current, ongoing struggle as part of something bigger than themselves is exciting and wonderful to behold; being able to say, after it's over, that you were there and made it happen--along with hundreds or thousands of others--is a reward above and beyond whatever loot and gear garnered from those deeds.  This is something that tabletop RPGs don't provide for them, and I can see why they say that; it's one thing to say that there are other agents or actors out there doing other things of importance, but it's something else to see it first-hand and be in the thick of things with those other groups.  In ways that many tabletop RPG publishers don't acknowledge, games like WOW are what common RPG players want out of that category of game; beyond a superior level of convenience, MMORPGs offer the immersion and participation in a larger world that is (apparently) all too often absent in tabletop games.  (I think that this absence is a player problem, really, brought on by both the tighter schedules of gamers--when time is tight, fluff gets dumped and play focuses on the game's area of emphasis--as well as the habit to ignore all that isn't brought to the attention of players by GMs.)

It's not a solution; events like these tend to be short-lived and previously are half-assed efforts that fail to live up to their potential due to boss meddling or logistical shortages, but this one is a better effort than previous ones and is a closer approximation of what an MMORPG could be were it a living world.  Tabletop RPGs will have problems competiting with MMORPGs for players if the gaming culture doesn't make a persistant, concious effort to display and exploit its own ability to achieve this effect without half of the hassles that come with it for MMORPGs; the tolerance for a slower, but more vivid, pace of play must again become the norm.