TheRPGSite

Other Games, Development, & Campaigns => Other Games => Topic started by: ThePoxBox on May 15, 2018, 10:40:58 AM

Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: ThePoxBox on May 15, 2018, 10:40:58 AM
Looking for something with great lore but flexible enough to make it much your own? Looking for a game where the metagame is in control of everyone involved? Looking for a game where you can zoom in and out as much as you want on any element? Blades in the Dark is very different than my lifeblood of Dungeons & Dragons, but when it comes to a low prep, highly improvisational experience it can't be beat. Just make sure you have a GM and are playing with people that are capable of that improv and don't overthink things.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: finarvyn on May 20, 2018, 10:45:58 AM
I played one game of this, with a group that got stuck by improv and constantly tried to overthink things. The game seemed solid, but our adventure was sort of lame.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: ThePoxBox on May 20, 2018, 11:54:19 AM
Sorry to hear it fin. Like all tools they need an artisan and a good team to shine.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: finarvyn on May 21, 2018, 06:10:25 AM
Agreed. Like I said, the concept seemed pretty solid but our group dropped the ball. I suspect that BitD is one of those games where once you really "get it" then things flow a lot smoother, but if you have a group which is sort of passive or clueless it sort of flops. I had trouble running Sorcerer for some of those same players a few years ago.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: Rafael on May 24, 2018, 02:49:38 AM
This interests me! Is this game tied to a specific setting, or could it be ported to, say, another prominent city of thieves (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thieves%27_World) without much ado? - Because, as much as I appreciate modern renditions of that motif, there is that classic that I consider truly special! :)
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: ThePoxBox on May 27, 2018, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Le Noir Faineant;1040420This interests me! Is this game tied to a specific setting, or could it be ported to, say, another prominent city of thieves (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thieves%27_World) without much ado? - Because, as much as I appreciate modern renditions of that motif, there is that classic that I consider truly special! :)

The core system of BitD can be used very easily, but one of the things that makes the game a great product is how much of the content of the book is pretty specific to the world where the city of Doskvol exists, the kinds of archetypes that Blades playbooks encapsulate, and the tribal archetypes that the crew types outline. If you wanted to port it to another setting whole cloth, you've got a lot of work to do. A lot of the mechanics may be the same, but the fiction around the mechanics would take a lot of writing if you wanted to create something for more than just yourself. There are plenty of hacks out there to check out, and some of them are even different genres, but personally I haven't pursued them so I don't know where to point you. Forged in the Dark is the name for the core system that is more generic, but that system hasn't been formally published as of yet.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: Trond on May 28, 2018, 01:28:38 PM
Sounds interesting. Not to derail too much, but ever tried Houses of the Blooded? That's the best little-to-no-GM-prep-time game I have tried.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: ThePoxBox on May 28, 2018, 05:49:48 PM
Quote from: Trond;1040977Sounds interesting. Not to derail too much, but ever tried Houses of the Blooded? That's the best little-to-no-GM-prep-time game I have tried.

I have not, but Blades is kind've "low prep, mid level world/mechanics knowledge needed." A lot of the direction is given by the players in Blades, so the more you know, the more specific you can be on where you're going, what you might be working towards as an individual and/or as a group, and who you might encounter or have tag along with you.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: Rafael on June 05, 2018, 03:33:03 PM
Quote from: ThePoxBox;1040805The core system of BitD can be used very easily, but one of the things that makes the game a great product is how much of the content of the book is pretty specific to the world where the city of Doskvol exists, the kinds of archetypes that Blades playbooks encapsulate, and the tribal archetypes that the crew types outline. If you wanted to port it to another setting whole cloth, you've got a lot of work to do. A lot of the mechanics may be the same, but the fiction around the mechanics would take a lot of writing if you wanted to create something for more than just yourself. There are plenty of hacks out there to check out, and some of them are even different genres, but personally I haven't pursued them so I don't know where to point you. Forged in the Dark is the name for the core system that is more generic, but that system hasn't been formally published as of yet.

Thank you for your assessment! :) I'll then wait how "Forged in the Dark" fares. I am currently running TW with "Beyond the Wall", and... It's not terrible.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: Alderaan Crumbs on August 01, 2018, 10:32:22 PM
I fucking LOVE Blades and got really good at it. It felt awesome. Scum & Villainy rocks, too. A lot.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: Premier on August 02, 2018, 05:21:08 AM
I played BitD a couple of times with a guy who was part of the playtesting (and other players, of course). It's very different than my neck of woods in the OSR, but I generally had a fine time and the setting and some of the mechanics are rather intriguing.

I did find it imperfect, especially in regard to one particular issue. Essentually, my main beef is that the system is way too stingy with the sense of accomplishment, and you spend most of the gametime feeling frustated.

Here's what I mean: a single heist might have, let's say, three tasks, maybe four. (Get in unnoticed, locate the loot, actually acquire the loot, maybe get out unnoticed.) Each task is divided into maybe 2-4 subtasks on those little task wheels, or whatever you call them. So you have anywhere between 6 to over a dozen subtasks to accomplish.

The problem is, the action resolution die rolls are set up so that you're pretty unlikely to get a simple success on any given attempt, and you're very, very likely to be pushed into risky and desperate rolls where all sorts of shit can go bad. I understand the purpose of that, it's there to provide a sense of urgency and risk and escalation. That's all cool, but like I said above, you have to pass 6-12 situations in a single heist, and MOST of those get pushed into a desperate struggle, which I think is just too much, and it ends up achieving the opposite of what it set out to do: at the end you don't feel "Oh, good, we FINALLY got the golden statuette!"; you feel "Going through all that bullshit for this golden statuette really wasn't worth it, why can't our crew just live on a smaller income with simple kneecap-busting jobs instead?"

It's like a traditional D&D dungeon crawl, but with 9 out of 10 encounters (random or otherwise) being a 5 liches, 50 death knights, 20 umber hulks or some other bullshit where all you can do is try to run away and hope you succeed.

Which is a pity because the game has great potential, but I think it really needs to be recalibrated to be less punishing and less misery touristy. Every single burglary job shouldn't involve 8 or so near-catastrophes; you're supposed to play a bunch of cool fantasy criminals, not bumbling idiots.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: Alderaan Crumbs on August 03, 2018, 03:28:00 AM
Quote from: Premier;1051172I played BitD a couple of times with a guy who was part of the playtesting (and other players, of course). It's very different than my neck of woods in the OSR, but I generally had a fine time and the setting and some of the mechanics are rather intriguing.

I did find it imperfect, especially in regard to one particular issue. Essentually, my main beef is that the system is way too stingy with the sense of accomplishment, and you spend most of the gametime feeling frustated.

Here's what I mean: a single heist might have, let's say, three tasks, maybe four. (Get in unnoticed, locate the loot, actually acquire the loot, maybe get out unnoticed.) Each task is divided into maybe 2-4 subtasks on those little task wheels, or whatever you call them. So you have anywhere between 6 to over a dozen subtasks to accomplish.

The problem is, the action resolution die rolls are set up so that you're pretty unlikely to get a simple success on any given attempt, and you're very, very likely to be pushed into risky and desperate rolls where all sorts of shit can go bad. I understand the purpose of that, it's there to provide a sense of urgency and risk and escalation. That's all cool, but like I said above, you have to pass 6-12 situations in a single heist, and MOST of those get pushed into a desperate struggle, which I think is just too much, and it ends up achieving the opposite of what it set out to do: at the end you don't feel "Oh, good, we FINALLY got the golden statuette!"; you feel "Going through all that bullshit for this golden statuette really wasn't worth it, why can't our crew just live on a smaller income with simple kneecap-busting jobs instead?"

It's like a traditional D&D dungeon crawl, but with 9 out of 10 encounters (random or otherwise) being a 5 liches, 50 death knights, 20 umber hulks or some other bullshit where all you can do is try to run away and hope you succeed.

Which is a pity because the game has great potential, but I think it really needs to be recalibrated to be less punishing and less misery touristy. Every single burglary job shouldn't involve 8 or so near-catastrophes; you're supposed to play a bunch of cool fantasy criminals, not bumbling idiots.

None of this is correct. If that's your experience, it was done wrong by your group, not the game.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: Premier on August 04, 2018, 09:52:37 AM
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1051282None of this is correct. If that's your experience, it was done wrong by your group, not the game.

All of that is correct. You are the one who's wrong. If your experience is different, your group is playing the game wrong.


See? It's easy to make assertive declarations without any sort of actual argument, explanation or support. So easy, in fact, it's worth nothing for the purposes of public discussion. Like your post.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: Warboss Squee on August 05, 2018, 11:49:28 AM
Quote from: Premier;1051463All of that is correct. You are the one who's wrong. If your experience is different, your group is playing the game wrong.


See? It's easy to make assertive declarations without any sort of actual argument, explanation or support. So easy, in fact, it's worth nothing for the purposes of public discussion. Like your post.

Played the game extensively. Pretty sure your GM had the difficulty dials turned up to high.

So yes, yours would not be the ideal experience, but the typical one for first timers.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: Alderaan Crumbs on August 05, 2018, 09:53:43 PM
Quote from: Premier;1051463All of that is correct. You are the one who's wrong. If your experience is different, your group is playing the game wrong.


See? It's easy to make assertive declarations without any sort of actual argument, explanation or support. So easy, in fact, it's worth nothing for the purposes of public discussion. Like your post.

You described the game incorrectly and if the game was run that way, it was done poorly. I wasn't being rude, I was stating a fact. You're painting the game as having a major flaw, based on an experience you had that, itself, was based on the game being run poorly. To place your displeasure at the feet of the game was disingenuous. I know this because I did the same thing when I started. I also have extensive experience with the system. Clocks...a term you should know and use (not "task wheels" as that hurts your credibility) if criticizing them...are optional. They simply represent more complex obstacles. I've run scores that use them extensively and some that are resolved in a few action rolls. Your D&D example is completely off-base and again, purely based on poor implementation. Every burglary doesn't involve "8 or so near-catastrophes".

If you had posted frustration concerning how you perceived things and/or that the session went poorly because of any number of group-focused reasons, I could get behind that. You didn't. You blamed poor design on your poor experience, which is disingenuous.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: nightlamp on August 07, 2018, 10:50:25 AM
BitD is on my list of games I'd like to run or play.  In the meantime, I've read the book and adapted some elements for use in other games (progress clocks, "be prepared" flashbacks, and bonus dice for assistance from other characters).  The Doskvol setting seems a little too hopeless/grimdark as written for my taste, but I suppose that's remedied easily enough by revising or just using a different setting -- the Blades of New Crobuzon hack looks particularly intriguing.  

Oh, and Ryan Dunleavy's illustrated maps look pretty awesome (https://www.patreon.com/ryandunleavy).
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: Alderaan Crumbs on August 08, 2018, 12:19:51 AM
Quote from: nightlamp;1051924BitD is on my list of games I'd like to run or play.  In the meantime, I've read the book and adapted some elements for use in other games (progress clocks, "be prepared" flashbacks, and bonus dice for assistance from other characters).  The Doskvol setting seems a little too hopeless/grimdark as written for my taste, but I suppose that's remedied easily enough by revising or just using a different setting -- the Blades of New Crobuzon hack looks particularly intriguing.  

Oh, and Ryan Dunleavy's illustrated maps look pretty awesome (https://www.patreon.com/ryandunleavy).

Aside from it being literally dark so often, we (as in the groups I have run) have found the grimdark is only oppressive if you let it be*. There's a celebration of life and moving forward, despite the world being broken. I'm a big fan of the system and have consistently been impressed at how much it moves fantastic gaming along.

It even turned the surly Warboss Squee's dark, stone and magical heart! Such a thing I never believed possible! ;)

*we rebooted our game after the aforementioned Warboss of All That is Most Squee played Jack...
Jack was Duskvol Joker turned up to 11, then injected with more crazy than Pundit waking up sandwiched between Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian (let me imagine it would make him scream the Scream of All Screams). Things got WAY dark, bloody and beyond comfort. So, we discussed and said, "That was fun, icky and awesome. Let's tone it down". It actually wasn't that bad, but illustrated the desire to shift to a lighter tone. So, don't fret! In the dusky duskness there isn't only dusk!

Also, I am drunk. Carry on.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: Motorskills on August 08, 2018, 02:18:47 PM
From my very limited experience with the game, just a few sessions, I think part of the disconnect above is that BitD mechanics seem to be very interconnected, it is important to know them all and use them all correctly, not much flexibility for people doing things wrong, including the GM.

I think with knowledgeable people, or at least a knowledgeable GM, I can well believe that BitD could be a transformative gaming experience.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: nightlamp on August 09, 2018, 10:46:01 AM
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1052037Aside from it being literally dark so often, we (as in the groups I have run) have found the grimdark is only oppressive if you let it be*. There's a celebration of life and moving forward, despite the world being broken. I'm a big fan of the system and have consistently been impressed at how much it moves fantastic gaming along.

That's helpful to know.  Good to hear that the tone can be dialed up or down without much trouble according to the individual group's taste.
Title: Blades in the Dark: Best Story Game I've Experienced (Good GM Helped)
Post by: Alderaan Crumbs on August 13, 2018, 01:03:46 PM
Quote from: nightlamp;1052286That's helpful to know.  Good to hear that the tone can be dialed up or down without much trouble according to the individual group's taste.

I absolutely love the game and am always up to discuss it. Feel free to contact me anytime.